regfootball

BIG 3 BUNKRUPTCY

100 posts in this topic

Probably... But who cares?!?!?! The "rust belt" doesn't employ many people an the people are ignorant anyway.

Remember, it's only New York and California that count.

(Or at least that's what the media told me)

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If the Detroit big 2 are allowed to go under, we will see a recession worse than the 1928 depression. It amazes me how many people out in the press and in the local area say who cares, let them go under.

Yes I know the executives and UAW are totally to blame, but due to the millions of jobs that are at stake, this country cannot afford to let them go bankrupt. The Tax payers have already bailed out the airline industry and taken on their pentions for the unions, I can see this also happening with the auto industry.

Going to be an interesting first year for Obama.

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It shouldn't be allowed to happen.

The Detroit 3 and the UAW dug their own grave. In the 70s and 80s they built junk, cashed in, and didn't see the Japanese as a threat. They continue to be mismanaged today; Wagoner (making $15 million a year) has overseen a $73 billion loss since 2004. The economy wasn't that bad in 2004-2006 yet GM lost tons of money. Detroit has been stubborn with big egos and entitlement philosophy for 50+ years, this is the wake up call they needed. They need new management, the current crew can't turn this ship around.

All three won't go bust, they will just downsize, so the Michigan economy may take a hit, but it won't be devastated. Perhaps though some of the bailout money should go to laid off workers, and in retraining them to do new jobs in business segments that have a brighter future than the American auto industry.

Even if they did go bust, at some point the car market will rise back to 15+ million units a year, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc will have to hire more employees to build that many cars, and jobs will be recreated, just not at UAW wages.

Edited by smk4565
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YES!

Welcome to my hell! (I live in Michigan)

The news gets more interesting every night...

One can't even find a job at Wal mart around here....

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SMK really does live in cloud-cuckoo-land. You know, you're not supposed to eat the lotus-flowers. What exactly do you think autoworkers should be retained to do? Collect cans for recycling? Sell home loans? Plant trees? How exactly is the economy going to recover when no-one has a job? Who is going to buy all those cars from Toyota and Honda when everyone is unemployed? Investing billions in the auto industry is exactly the kind of economic stimulus that was needed even without the cash crisis facing the industry. What else is the government going to do? Upgrade rural road 4 from a pony trail to a 4-lane interstate? Replace the plumbing in the congressional bathrooms with gold fittings?

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"...In the 70s and 80s they built junk,..."

God I am sooo sick of hearing about ancient history. When will some quit bringing up old times? GM/F/CC are NOT making "junk" and people have to look at the current products! Maybe 'taste masters' don't like "the feel of the interior materials", but that's no reason to lay off hundreds of thousands of workers.

And, if one thinks having only import makes will be 'better'. Just wait for higher prices from less competetion. In fact a brand new car will be a 'luxury item', since many will have "McJobs".

Edited by Chicagoland
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I've been to Michigan, doesn't seem like there is a whole lot left to collapse.

I lived there '94-97...it was dying then, probably worse now. Ann Arbor was great, but Detroit looked like a war zone.

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SMK really does live in cloud-cuckoo-land. You know, you're not supposed to eat the lotus-flowers. What exactly do you think autoworkers should be retained to do? Collect cans for recycling? Sell home loans? Plant trees? How exactly is the economy going to recover when no-one has a job? Who is going to buy all those cars from Toyota and Honda when everyone is unemployed? Investing billions in the auto industry is exactly the kind of economic stimulus that was needed even without the cash crisis facing the industry. What else is the government going to do? Upgrade rural road 4 from a pony trail to a 4-lane interstate? Replace the plumbing in the congressional bathrooms with gold fittings?

They could learn how to build and install windmills, solar panels and hydro electric generators. They could be trained to do other kinds of infrastructure projects like power lines or repairing bridges. Toyota can hire some of them as well. The steel industry in Pittsburgh was before I was born, but this city was dependent on steel like Detroit is on cars, now we don't have a steel industry (aside from US Steel headquarters), yet the local economy is fine, even better than most other parts of the country.

I agree that GM needs a bailout, but this is going to b a one shot deal. If they burn $2 billion a month in cash in 2009, and use up all the government money, they'll just go bankrupt in 2010 and there won't be a second bailout to save them. The bailout will be there, but it is what GM does with it that matters, I fear they will just go about business as usual like they have for the past 4 years.

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"...In the 70s and 80s they built junk,..."

God I am sooo sick of hearing about ancient history. When will some quit bringing up old times? GM/F/CC are NOT making "junk" and people have to look at the current products! Maybe 'taste masters' don't like "the feel of the interior materials", but that's no reason to lay off hundreds of thousands of workers.

Chrysler makes the Avenger and Sebring, that is true junk. Ford has the Ranger and Town Car, GM has the Impala, G5, Trailblazer (although they did a good job getting rid of the grand prix, minivans, etc). They all still have some junk that only rental car agencies want to buy, and even the Malibu and CTS need big incentives to sell.

The past hurts them because those customers that left and went to Honda/Toyota aren't coming back no matter what GM and Ford makes. I know that Ford quality is tied with Honda and Toyota, but most people don't and even if they do, they hold a grudge from being screwed over in the past. Even worse, is it is mainly the baby-boomer crowd that has money that won't consider domestics. My mom is one of them, she won't consider any GM product, even at 50% off, she was screwed in the past and won't go back.

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Even worse, is it is mainly the baby-boomer crowd that has money that won't consider domestics. My mom is one of them, she won't consider any GM product, even at 50% off, she was screwed in the past and won't go back.

It's not just the boomers...most people I know of my generation (X) and demographic (software professionals) won't even consider domestics...Jeep is about the only brand that has any traction amongst my friends and colleagues of my generation. Acura/Honda, Toyota, Audi, BMW, Nissan/Infiniti, Subaru, etc get their $$$... I feel very much in the minority for owning and liking Big 3 rides..

Edited by moltar
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sorry if this has been covered already, but if the Big 3 declare bankruptcy, does that mean they will go out of business for sure? The two concepts are not inclusive.

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sorry if this has been covered already, but if the Big 3 declare bankruptcy, does that mean they will go out of business for sure? The two concepts are not inclusive.

No, they can file chapter 11 bankruptcy which allows them to reorganize, gets the creditors off their backs and would allow them to redo labor contracts. They would stay in business throughout the process, and a federal court would oversee the bankruptcy. If they file Chapter 7 bankruptcy, they liquidate everything and close down. Chapter 11 would be any of the Detroit 3's path.

GM will be the first one to run out of money, Ford can survive 2009, GM could be out of money by January.

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well, lets see. if the boomers lose their retirement funds and their children don't have jobs to keep them in the nursing home, then they will love working at culvers. 2 shifts a day, 6 days a week.

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everything i seen says chapter 11 will most assuredly lead to chapter 7

Chapter 11 is their way out of the UAW deal that costs them $2000 more per car. To me this is their best path, combined with government aid. If they just take the bailout money, but continue to burn $2 billion a month, in December 2009 they will be out of money again.

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The Detroit 3 and the UAW dug their own grave. In the 70s and 80s they built junk, cashed in, and didn't see the Japanese as a threat. They continue to be mismanaged today; Wagoner (making $15 million a year) has overseen a $73 billion loss since 2004. The economy wasn't that bad in 2004-2006 yet GM lost tons of money. Detroit has been stubborn with big egos and entitlement philosophy for 50+ years, this is the wake up call they needed. They need new management, the current crew can't turn this ship around.

All three won't go bust, they will just downsize, so the Michigan economy may take a hit, but it won't be devastated. Perhaps though some of the bailout money should go to laid off workers, and in retraining them to do new jobs in business segments that have a brighter future than the American auto industry.

Even if they did go bust, at some point the car market will rise back to 15+ million units a year, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc will have to hire more employees to build that many cars, and jobs will be recreated, just not at UAW wages.

Take a hit? $h!.....shows me just how little you know about Michigan.

1. So Honda/Toyota will hire the workers? What? Robots are the future my friend, not people...

2. All 3 won't go bust, you say? If you knew Sears might go out of business, would you shop there? I'm guessing you won't. Nothing spooks people more in bad times than bad news. The sheer number of companies that go out of business you surely surprise you (not just automakers here)

3. GM is turning around, and it is not there fault about the $h!ty timing with the double hit that we are taking (wall street/ Housing bust)....that, is just bad timing......

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Chapter 11 is their way out of the UAW deal that costs them $2000 more per car. To me this is their best path, combined with government aid. If they just take the bailout money, but continue to burn $2 billion a month, in December 2009 they will be out of money again.

Even if they shake the UAW, how are they going to pay the employees benefits? Or does that go away with the UAW too?

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