NOS2006

Start the Concept Speculation!

88 posts in this topic

First, I don't.. I repeat.. DON'T want you guys saying the Camaro isn't coming. Haters, leave or don't comment.

Now let's start some speculation! What do you expect to see at NAIAS, if, indeed, a Camaro concept is shown. Remember, it will be a CONCEPT, not a complete production model. Oh, and if you disagree with someone, that's okay. This is only personal speculation/hopes.


My Speculation:

Design:
Front end will have one of two designs. One, quad headlights with a lower grille like the 4th Gen. Two, something like Horton's.

Rear design will definitely have LEDs and the taillights will either be quad round ones or a panel like the 3rd Gens. Hopefully the license plate is between the taillights, but will probably be in the bumper.

Body will probably have the '69 speed lines or whatever coming from the wheel wells. I'm expecting a body like Chris Pauwel's concept.

Powertrain:
Probably the 6.0L pushing 400ish HP and similar torque. 6 speed manual. RWD (but I have a feeling they may show a AWD model).

Presentation:
Red, of course. Z/28 (with the slash) I'm guessing. Chrome 5 spoke rims (18/19" front/rear). Will be a great display.
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But NOS, it isn't coming. JK!!! Though I will be laughing my ass off if the whole thing is a very elaborate hoax. You have to admit that would be funny as hell.
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If that's the case, then we'll see the Fbodfather's head on a pike by Jan. 10. For the body, all I can say is that I expect a more proper coupe than the 3rd and 4th gens. Fbodfather is saying that the body is like the C6 in that it's a new design with cues from all past generations. Probably no chrome bar. Quad circle taillights would be sweet....anyone else want that to be an across-the-board Chevy styling cue? For the engine...I'd say they up the ante and maximize the buzz, and put an LS7 in it. Six speed tranny is a given.
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Drop the C5 Z06's engine in it and call it the Camaro SS...this car needs to be damn iconic. It's #1 competitor will be the Mustang...but the problem with sales will be sadly how it appeals to female buyers. The Mustang is still a bit on the girly side. The Camaro just can't seem to do that...which I cant help but love. After all, it was a 1994 Z-28 that got me lovin GM cars in the first place....
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It would make it too downmarket. Camaro won't be competing with all trims of the Mustang. GM wants the Camaro--EVERY Camaro--to be powerful and great. No weak-ass V6s. They are targeting enthusiasts, not wimps. Enthusiasts want V8s. Plus GM is going for higher profit margins. A low-priced V6 won't do it. Edited by Croc
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Croc. You cannot be serious.. :blink:
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I think NOS is speculating what engine will be in the concept, not necessarily the production model. And a concept Camaro sure as hell won't have a V6. I'm guessing either a supercharged LS2 with over 500hp (to one-up the Mustang GT500 which is also supercharged) or the LS7.
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Oh, is Croc talking about the concept Camaro not having a six? I thought he meant the real thing shouldn't have a six, period.
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No, I think he's just talking about the production one. I just thought it was odd that we got on to production engines when you started the thread to talk about the concept.
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Yea, no V6 period. on either. This would be another halo vehicle...why dilute it?
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That's just it though; they aren't excluding a "big market." It is very much a niche market. GM wants the Camaro to be a home run...now think of this: A V6 model would be priced no less than 25k, most likely closer to 27k. Go back and look in the other thread for my reasons on this, but don't call that into question here. Just assume that that's the "given" of this scenario. A V8 would be pretty close to if not exactly 30k. Now...GM is designing the REST of the vehicle...are they going to put a 30k interior in a 25k car? No. Are they going to WANT to have a 30k car that is bitched at for having a 25k interior? Not really. Since this entire vehicle program is enthusiast driven, GM is likely going to pull out all of the stops and make it a nice 30k V8-only vehicle with a befitting interior. Also think about this: Corvette starts off 45k. Would it make any sense whatsoever for a Camaro with similar performance to be priced much below 30k? Don't make a driving dynamic argument because all of GMs cars need to handle well. Corvette is priced perfectly. Camaro should be more affordable, but not a giveaway. Giveaways are ridiculous.
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Don't forget SKY, starting at ~25k Also...they aren't so much moving it upmarket as they are reintroducing the nameplate at a slightly higher market. Here's the thing: the new Camaro will be a LOT better an overall vehicle than the 4th gen, and this should and will be reflected in the pricing.
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Doesn't SSR start around 40k?? I would expect Camaro pricing to closely reflect that of the GTO. Edited by Croc
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A new, unique platform production Camaro without a Firebird to assist in volume & amortize costs would not make a sound business case as a V-8-only model. A hot powerful V-6 is not 'downmarket' even in this price range: Cadillac is traditionally a V-8 marque yet look at the CTS's market performance in the 30K-40K segment- not a single media damnation for being a V-6.
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If the same RWD platform used for the Camaro is also used for RWD sedans to replace the W and G bodies, then those sedans could use mostly V6 and some V8 engines and the Camaro could be strictly a V8 competitor for the Mustang GT and upcoming Shelby Mustang SVT. I don't think that GM is going to design a platform just for the Camaro as Ford did for the Mustang.
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I would expect GM to package and price the Camaro near the current Mustang. Remember, volume is also important to GM and building a low volume Camaro would not help them go back to the magic 30%. In the end it's about money. The V-6 Mustang makes Ford ALOT of money.
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A new, unique platform production Camaro without a Firebird to assist in volume & amortize costs would not make a sound business case as a V-8-only model. A hot powerful V-6 is not 'downmarket' even in this price range: Cadillac is traditionally a V-8 marque yet look at the CTS's market performance in the 30K-40K segment- not a single media damnation for being a V-6.

[post="39245"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Agreed, besides look at the Charger 3.5. When the car came out I was like I'd never be caught dead in a freekin V6 car this big but the thing is quite quick and fast enough for a daily comute. V6 Camaros driven by Cheerleaders, Dental Hygenists, Middle managers wiht a midlife crisis, Legal Secretarys and people who can't afford a V8 but want a new car are a good way to double the production number of a car.
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I would expect Camaro pricing to closely reflect that of the GTO.

[post="39231"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


In which case GM would be fucked.

I don't know where you're getting your ideas, but I think we can all agree that GM would be better off NOT PRODUCING A CAMARO AT ALL if pricing reflects the GTO. The Camaro is a decidedly more mainstream model than the GTO. At $30k, it'd be the flop of the decade. Guaranteed.
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If the Camaro shares its architecture and many components with a high volume sedan or two and is built at the same plant, then I do not believe that a V6 version will be necessary for volume. The Mustang does not share its platform with any other Ford, and the platform is not flexible enough for a sedan version. Therefore, the V6 Mustang is necessary for volume. But if the Camaro shares its platform with the next generation Impala or a new Caprice (if the Impala goes to the LWB Epsilon II) and a companion Pontiac or Buick sedan, then I don't think that a V6 Camaro would be necessary. It may be desirable, but not necessary. I do think that a V8 Camaro would be priced about the same as a V8 Mustang, not the GTO.
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I think they'll have a V6 Camaro for two reasons even if it's not necessary for volume. First, not everyone wants a V8, and that takes the Camaro off of their list if it's V8-only, and GM possibly loses a sale. Second, just because we'll have V6 sedans doesn't mean someone wanting a V6 coupe will buy the sedan. They'll probably just go buy a Mustang. Just because it's not needed for volume doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. GM would abandon a large market if it just let everyone looking for a V6 coupe go elsewhere. Now, if there was a Monte Carlo/Chevelle with a V6, then maybe the V6 Camaro wouldn't be needed.
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This is what has been said by Fbod. None of the drawings have it right. Expect cue's from all gens, and expect some second gen [in the roof]. At one point he said a SS would be considered for the performance model and Z28 would be top line , the reverse of what it was in the last year. But this was far from a settled thing. The top line performance car would be limited like a Cobra. It will have a trunk and no hatch a convert would follow in a year or two. All this infor was given a while back and is always subject to change. As for my own thoughts I would expect a lot of styling will be taken from the SS concept. I would expect the front end grill styling roof and mabey tail lights?? Just a thought. As for drivetrain I will only say a V8 and V6. GM would doom this car if they do not provide a well equipt V6 car. They need to correct where the 4th gen failed. They could not give away the V6 cars and sold mostly V8's. They also need to appeal to women as the 4th gen sold mostly to men. These two points are what have supported the Mustang and not the F body in the last few years it was sold. Also lets not forget the insurance factor. more younger people can afford the V6 insurance and not the V8. The way I see it the V6 cars are more important than the V8. You know the V8 will sell but not in the total number GM need, 70% of these car they sell will need to be V6. Just look at how many V6 05 mustangs are on the streets today with strips and such, they are the majority. Price will just under cut the Mustang if GM holds to their pricing program to under cut the others prices. As for what V8 engines I would hate to guess at this point but keep in mind the engines from the SSR will be available soon as they kill it off.
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My source tells me "I will love it" even though I am not pleased with most current GM designs. My biggest fear is that they will impose the same dull design on Camaro as with Impala, Malibu, Monte Carlo, and GTO just to name a few. One thing is for certain, the NAIAS Camaro concept will be retro.
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In which case GM would be fucked. 

I don't know where you're getting your ideas, but I think we can all agree that GM would be better off NOT PRODUCING A CAMARO AT ALL if pricing reflects the GTO.  The Camaro is a decidedly more mainstream model than the GTO.  At $30k, it'd be the flop of the decade.  Guaranteed.

[post="39370"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Don't be silly. First of all, I expect Camaro to start off as a BASE just under 30k. Maybe 28 or 29k. GTO starts at 32k/33k. Don't go acting like the GTO is overpriced because it isn't. It is quite a bargain. The US auto industry is pretty saturated; no vehicle is going to get megavolume these days. As I said before, GM is focusing on higher profit margin vehicles. This Camaro will be RWD obviously...so how many RWD platforms does GM have? I count two. One is too expensive, the other is more reasonable. This one we have been calling "Zeta." Now, there is no way in hell the Camaro will have a unique platform. That would be retarded. The next GTO will most likely be US-built, and will be on Zeta. So right there we have two vehicles on the same platform. There is a rumored Buick and a rumored Pontiac sedan, possibly a Chevrolet sedan. That brings the total number of vehicles to 4 or 5. Costs will be lowered due to this. A V6 Camaro will not be necessary for GM to make money. In fact, I think it would be detrimental for two reasons: GM would lose money giving away a 30k interior in a 25k vehicle and lose sales by offering a 30k V8 with a 25k interior. GM is NOT going to design two different interiors, that would be a waste. The second reason is that of image. If all Camaros have a V8, they will have a better image. Also, what V6 would GM put in it? Frankly, I think the General needs to develop some better 6s because their current ones aren't that great IMO.
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Don't be silly.  First of all, I expect Camaro to start off as a BASE just under 30k.  Maybe 28 or 29k.  GTO starts at 32k/33k.  Don't go acting like the GTO is overpriced because it isn't.  It is quite a bargain.  The US auto industry is pretty saturated; no vehicle is going to get megavolume these days.  As I said before, GM is focusing on higher profit margin vehicles.  This Camaro will be RWD obviously...so how many RWD platforms does GM have?  I count two.  One is too expensive, the other is more reasonable.  This one we have been calling "Zeta."  Now, there is no way in hell the Camaro will have a unique platform.  That would be retarded.  The next GTO will most likely be US-built, and will be on Zeta.  So right there we have two vehicles on the same platform.  There is a rumored Buick and a rumored Pontiac sedan, possibly a Chevrolet sedan.  That brings the total number of vehicles to 4 or 5.  Costs will be lowered due to this.  A V6 Camaro will not be necessary for GM to make money.  In fact, I think it would be detrimental for two reasons: GM would lose money giving away a 30k interior in a 25k vehicle and lose sales by offering a 30k V8 with a 25k interior.  GM is NOT going to design two different interiors, that would be a waste.  The second reason is that of image.  If all Camaros have a V8, they will have a better image.  Also, what V6 would GM put in it?  Frankly, I think the General needs to develop some better 6s because their current ones aren't that great IMO.

[post="39447"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


The Camaro won't base just under $30k, no one would pay $29k for a base Camaro, V8 or not. If that's GM's goal they'll name it Chevelle or something.

Last I heard the GTO was on hold, so it's not a definite. Also, what's the point of having both a Camaro and GTO if they occupy the same $30+k segment?

From what I've read, the success of the Camaro and Chevy sedan is what makes a Buick and Pontiac sedan successful, so the Camaro and Chevy sedan have to be high volume in order to justify the more expensive, lower volume Pontiac and Buick.
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