'08 Ion shelved?

[4gm]

Someone at Saturnfans.com said the '08 Ion has been shelved. Anyone know is this is true?

[PurdueGuy]

I would take info from saturnfans with a grain of salt, but still good to find out for sure on. They'd better have some sort of small car for Saturn. [speculation]I'm going to guess that it's someone who read about GM shutting down the ION production line in spring hill, and doesn't know about the plans to produce it along side the cobalt.[/speculation]

[Croc]

Wait...GM just cans vehicles because too much gets revealed? Wow...they might want to plug up their security leaks before cancelling good product. :rolleyes: So, what's the new plan?

[Mike The Canadian]

It's toast because too much was revelaed here.

[post="52705"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

are you serious? :o

[caddycruiser]

------- Edited December 4, 2005 by caddycruiser

[Sixty8panther]

Wow... >apathy ensues< whatever.... so they call the replacement a "Quid" or a "Areola", they'll be a replacemet either way.

[PurdueGuy]

I could see them killing the Ion name. It's tainted by so many negative opinions of the current model.

[91z4me]

It's toast because too much was revelaed here.

[post="52705"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wait are you talking the car totally, the look, the year, the name, or what?

[Croc]

hahaha thank you ah-ha for being the insider with a sense of humor.

[Mike The Canadian]

LOL!  Nah!  Of course not.

[post="52743"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

*phew* you had me going there for a minute..I was like oh my god! :lol:

:CG_all:

[stickmax]

I sincerely hope this isn't true. If it is GM may very well have just lost a sale.

[91z4me]

LOL!  Nah!  Of course not.

[post="52743"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Kinda scared the sh*t outta me.

[Northstar]

My only thoughts on why they would do this: 1) Saturn is getting something else instead (maybe they're getting the next-gen Astra imported?), or 2) The next-gen Cobalt development is getting sped up or the MCE for the Cobalt is going to be bigger.

[Northstar]

Well, if a lot gets revealed somewhat early on, and the reactions are less than mostly positive....think about it.... B)

That, or even if the reactions are all insanely positive, that "wow factor" attraction can only be sustained for so long, and usually will die off before the product is actually available for sale.

Then again, this might all be just a rumor...

[post="52736"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

But the reaction was almost all positive, so that would not be the case. They didn't even clinic the ION anyways, so that wouldn't have affected it either.

The wow factor wouldn't matter because 95% or more of potential buyers didn't even see the leaked pics. Sure, it might not be so "wow, look at that" to C&G readers, but how many people do you actually think saw it?

[haypops]

link at post #12 of
http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...?showtopic=3601

Negative comments about saturnfans.com are innacurate.

[Northstar]

Makes one wonder where Saturn is going.

[post="52795"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Either upscale... or... dead?

[caddycruiser]

But the reaction was almost all positive, so that would not be the case. They didn't even clinic the ION anyways, so that wouldn't have affected it either. 

The wow factor wouldn't matter because 95% or more of potential buyers didn't even see the leaked pics. Sure, it might not be so "wow, look at that" to C&G readers, but how many people do you actually think saw it?

[post="52776"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Very true, now that I think more about it. Good thing, I guess, that it was all just a fake "buzz" rumor then.

[cmattson]

GM's got a lot of new product invested into Saturn (finally!) - so I doubt they are leaving (a la Oldsmobile). You can doubt that they'd move downscale - that would put in competition with Chevrolet and/or parts of Pontiac (well at least as Pontiac's current portfoilio sits). You read rumors on the Aura - and they mention 6 speed transmissions and the 3.6l engine. Assuming that's true, then by cost-of-content alone, I'd expect Saturn to move up the ladder from it's current position of primarly selling economy cars & sedans.

[PurdueGuy]

I'm still not buying it totally. I followed the links to the saturnfans site, and the guy doesn't give credentials. I might have to dig further to see if he gives them in another thread, but having an engineer mutter something about something being "shelved" may or may not mean much.

[turbo200]

Is the Ion/Evoke still on? Have they shelved it completely. I believe me3head in another thread stated it won't be gone completely.

[97regalGS]

Makes one wonder where Saturn is going.

[post="52795"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

if Outlook is half as good as we hope it is, then Saturn, with Sky, Aura, Outlook, new Vue(not current one, next one) will be doing a lot better than they are right now. Get a decent Ion (with a new name??) and Saturn will actually have a credible product line....... something they have NEVER had in their 15 year existence.

[ToniCipriani]

I thought the last heard was the Ion's going to Lordstown alongside with the Cobalt. Wasn't it?

[turbo200]

In this Cobalt thread, me3head says it's back on.

post 11

Any news on this?

To answer Ah-ha's vague question, I believe Saturn is going up, and will be staying in business for long. Will we instead get the real Astra, and perhaps a Zafira to go along with it, and start to get direct Opel transplants here?

[Guest Josh]

LOL!  Nah!  Of course not.

[post="52743"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I was so on the phone with my attorney! :CG_all:

[Cadillacfan]

I hope it isn't shelved. That would be so bad. Saturn would be without a compact car. The 1st time in the company's history. GM shouldn't and probably won't let that happen.

[91z4me]

Bad news on the way... lots-o-bad news.

[post="54848"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Did a really big wave move through GM last night by any chance?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Bad news on the way... lots-o-bad news.

[post="54848"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Splendid... :rolleyes:

Probably the destruction of GM's mighty comeback plan.... cancellations, postponments

If GM cans the entire Staurn division then they're COMPLETELY ignorant... But, that would be typical... A) Just as they get it right they can it and B) Show awesome cars, then deny the public access to them.

[Cadillacfan]

I knew this was too good to be true. Damnit GM! Get your freakin act together. Why don't you stop blaming the Japanese for your financial problems(I'm looking at you Wagoner) and actually grow a pair and make some attractive vehicles! I'm getting extremely impatient and so are the rest of your fans and buyers. Toyota is starting to look not too bad for some longtime domestic buyers right now. Edited December 8, 2005 by Cadillacfan85

[ehaase]

Why don't you all wait and see what is being cancelled before having a tirade? None of us are financial experts. GM only has a limited amount of money and must invest it where it will receive the best return. Edited December 8, 2005 by ehaase

[thegriffon]

Don't get too upset. GM is constantly revising prigrams and seems to be in a consolidation phase, eliminating overlap in order to make development dollars go further. That means products that would have been on a US-only platform variant (like the Ion replacement) are being cancelled as the global platform teams take hold. It could turn out to be good news.

[stickmax]

Bad news on the way... lots-o-bad news.

[post="54848"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Are you at liberty to elaborate? If you can't when do you think whatever is going on will be available to the general public. How bad is it, are we talk about the death of a division or divisions? I don’t think GM can afford to lose another brand at this point without losing customers and creating negative publicity.

I’m hoping that it just been pushed back a year like the GMT360 revisions. If not I see a Mazda3 in my future. I am not willing to consider a ‘Saturn Pursuit’ or ‘Saturn Forenza.’

[stickmax]

Don't get too upset. GM is constantly revising prigrams and seems to be in a consolidation phase, eliminating overlap in order to make development dollars go further. That means products that would have been on a US-only platform variant (like the Ion replacement) are being cancelled as the global platform teams take hold. It could turn out to be good news.

[post="55116"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Wasn't Delta supposed to have been a global platform but Opel wasn’t interested. Also, Ford hasn’t been able to have any luck with a world-wide compact or midsize platform and I don’t see GM have any better luck. Holden won’t be using Epsilon for the next Vectra nor does Chevrolet of Brazil. I have not problem with a global platform it’s just that I’m afraid to will made for the lowest common denominator.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Why don't you all wait and see what is being cancelled before having a tirade? 

None of us are financial experts.  GM only has a limited amount of money and must invest it where it will receive the best return.

[post="55109"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hmmm... Let's see. An economy car for a division that actually has real growth potential (Rare at GM, sadly) in a segment that GM doesn't have much presence and needs a strong car or two.... Or another GMT900, a declining segment where GM is well established...

I'm not speaking against the 900s as I've been a big advocate of speeding them up, but GM needs to grow it's presence on the car side, especially in small cars, and Saturn is the most logical source as it has the greatest potential to conquest and pick up sales... ESPECIALLY if the new design theme holds.

[VenSeattle]

Why do I have a sinking feeling that GM is about to lose multiple brands? :angry:

[cmattson]

Having the '08 Ion pushed back a year isn't the end of the world. Take a look at how Ford leveraged the hot Mazda6 platform for teir Ford/Mercury/Lincoln triplets. That's how you make use of a platform. If GM needs to push back on a model to make sure it gets it right, then that is more important for the long-term success of the company

[Northstar]

I doubt Saturn will be without an economy car for very long. IMO, it would be better if the ION looked like the Sky rather than a mini-Aura (although the sketch was good-looking) and if pushing it back a year to co-develop it with the next Astra means cheaper costs and a better vehicle, I'm all for it.

[Cadillacfan]

Don't get too upset. GM is constantly revising prigrams and seems to be in a consolidation phase, eliminating overlap in order to make development dollars go further. That means products that would have been on a US-only platform variant (like the Ion replacement) are being cancelled as the global platform teams take hold. It could turn out to be good news.

[post="55116"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The statement that AH-HA made combined with my pissy attitude this morning sent me off the deep end. There's just been so much negative GM news lately that it's taking a toll on me.

I'm really hoping that this is just rumor but I'm really starting to worry about the future of the company now.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The statement that AH-HA made combined with my pissy attitude this morning sent me off the deep end.  There's just been so much negative GM news lately that it's taking a toll on me.

I'm really hoping that this is just rumor but I'm really starting to worry about the future of the company now.

[post="55309"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

True that...

I've been on that emotional roller coaster for a few years now... But it's worse now because GM gave all these insiders a sneak peek and created RARE positivity to hold on to in the war of anti-GM spiel and now those people are saying things that make us believe that it was all cruel irony.... I'm not placing blame but it's a very hard time to be a *POSITIVE* GM fan.

[Ghost Dog]

Could be the Saturns will be the GME Vehicles. Designed and Built.

[NOS2006]

Why would they cancel the Ion? From the sounds of Lutz and this thing not even needing to be "put through a clinic," it's going to be the shitt..

[thegriffon]

Wrong platform. I don't think GME, now responsible for the Global Compact cars, was at all impressed with Delta. I suspect that the next Ion will now be a sedan variant of the next Astra, just like GM do Brasil's Chevrolet Vectra. There may be detail changes to the styling, but nothing you be able to see from the sketch. Cobalt will probably also be affected, since there will also be a Daewoo/Chevrolet based on Global Compact Car to replace the J200.

[ToniCipriani]

Wrong platform. I don't think GME, now responsible for the Global Compact cars, was at all impressed with Delta. I suspect that the next Ion will now be a sedan variant of the next Astra, just like GM do Brasil's Chevrolet Vectra. There may be detail changes to the styling, but nothing you be able to see from the sketch. Cobalt will probably also be affected, since there will also be a Daewoo/Chevrolet based on Global Compact Car to replace the J200.

[post="56172"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

GM Brazil's Vectra was actually based on the older Astra platform, modified. I heard they were asked to used Delta, but they opted for the old platform instead.

[thegriffon]

So is the "new" Astra. GME dumped Delta and went for an update using the old platform, which made it even easier to develop the Vectra as a variant of the new Astra. The new Vectra uses the lwb platform developed for the Astra Caravan and Zafira. The new Astra uses the slight increase in wheelbase previously engineered by GM do Brasil. Although the chassis systems are much improved the platform itself is carryover. They probably won't be able to do that next time, but I doubt they will use Delta.

[Ghost Dog]

This is irrelevant. But if the Delta Ion is dead. I would Rather see the swb Epsilon Vectra as Saturns Compact. Providing the production Aura is the 112 inch lwb, the concept was. If the swb Vectra could be sold priced below the Aura.

[CSpec]

The Epsilon II Aura will be SWB won't it?

[Cadillacfan]

Aura is Epsilon I and it's on the extended wheelbase used by the Pontiac G6 and the Malibu Maxx. The 2nd generation Aura will be Epsilon II.

[sciguy_0504]

From Edmunds:

DETROIT — General Motors' Saturn division is preparing a major overhaul of its compact Ion sedan for early 2008 and will shift production from Spring Hill, Tennessee, to Lordstown, Ohio.

The move, from Saturn's home plant to the corporate GM production facility, means the new Saturn compact will likely shed its plastic body panels in favor of steel skin, sources told Inside Line. In addition, the car may get a new name: Evoke.

GM executives have said the company plans to phase out production of the current Ion models in Spring Hill by the end of 2006. That would leave Saturn without a compact sedan for some 12 to 15 months.

The Evoke is expected to reach Saturn dealerships in spring 2008, perhaps as an '09 model. Suppliers say that the Evoke, like its predecessor, will continue to share mechanical underpinnings with the Chevrolet Cobalt, but it may borrow styling cues from the next Opel Astra.

What this means to you: The replacement for the Saturn Ion may look more Teutonic, but it will be pure American under the skin.

[Ghost Dog]

So what are Saturns options for a compact?

The C&G Delta - Lordstown





The GME Astra - could possibly be built cheaply in Gliwice Poland. (Old but updated platform)










The GM Brasil Chevrolet Vectra- Inexpensive Import?
(Old but updated platform)









GME Vectra- Small midsize - Expensive to Import. (would be the Most Modern and Sophisticated option) Exspensive!












What should the Price range on the Next gen saturn compact be? What Vehicles should it compete with?

[91z4me]

GhostDog, The best case senario is for GME to update and merge Delta and the updated T-body to create 1 unified platform that shares the best of both worlds. The Vectra, Europe, is Epsilon based right? That would mean it is basically a SWB Aura which we don't need at Saturn. I place my money on an updated T-body merged with Delta.

[Northstar]

With the Cobalt scheduled to receive a major update for the '08 MY, it might make sense to push the ION back and just have it be the Astra like the Vue will be the production Antara. We'd be looking at probably MY 2010 I think.