8.9-magnitude quake triggers devastating Japan tsunami

[Croc]

I just hope we can get some honest answers about the global impact of this fiasco.

[Croc]

Agreed. We should also go back to drilling in the Gulf ASAP. Yes, the spill was a disaster, but it was one incident in how many operating offshore oil rigs over how many years?

Nope, not comparable. And there have been several accidents over the years, and each one is an environmental catastrophe. They still don't have the technology to contain a blowout, and the methods they used last year were the same exact methods they tried (and failed with) back in the 1970s. The nuclear industry has evolved in the last 40-some years.

[CSpec]

Tim Harford on Twitter: "The attention given to the Japanese nuclear plants (worrying) vs. the Tsunami (unimaginably tragic) seems disproportionate."

[vonVeezelsnider]

and now CNN is using Bill Nye the Science guy as their reactor science corespondent?

That's been going on for almost ten years now... I remember him on CNN when Spirit and Opportunity were launched to Mars.

[Croc]

Aaaaaaaaaand it looks like we have another blast at the nuclear plant. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/03/20113144314279315.html

[CSpec]

This footage of the sea relentlessly flooding a town is incredible: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/mar/14/tsunami-kesennuma-video

[William Maley]

I hope Japan's automotive manufactures help out like the Big 3 did after Katrina.

In fact I'm just thinking, GM, Ford, and Chrysler should donate vehicles or money to help out the Japanese people first. Would be a great PR move.

Honda, Nissan, Toyota each are donating $3.75 million..

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/03/honda-nissan-and-toyota-donate-375.html

[Croc]

Aaaaaaaaaaand this one makes three.

[balthazar]

For a company that's made almost 7 billion profit in one quarter; 3.75 million for this level of disaster, where damages may surpass $50 billion, seems rather... low.

[Intrepidation]

Japan suspects nuclear reactor container damaged

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2011/03/13/lklv.gupta.japan.house.cnn

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/ireports/2011/03/14/irpt.japan.earthquake.cracks.ireport

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2011/03/14/japan.moment.impact.NHK

This one is just incredible

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/14/sot.japan.miagi.tsunami.flee.nhk?hpt=C2

[pow]

From an email I got today:

Dear Friend,

Last Friday’s earthquake and tsunami in northeastern Japan was a tragic reminder of the earth’s destructive power. The death toll is expected to be in the tens of thousands.

What is occurring, however, at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is no natural disaster, but a human-made one.

You are no doubt reading reports of the situation in Japan. As of late-afternoon today, at unit two, an explosion has ruptured the primary containment vessel, and at two other units there have been partial meltdowns; emergency personnel have been evacuated; over 200,000 people have been evacuated from the area; radiation from damaged reactors has set off radiation detectors seventy-five miles away; the American fleet, including the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan, is moving to safer waters, after 17 personnel tested positive for radiation exposure.

The environmental community must be able to speak credibly about nuclear power, so, at minimum, a cursory knowledge of physics and medicine is helpful.

In a nuclear reactor, heat is harvested to create steam, in turn, the steam spins the turbines that create electricity. The heat is created by an atomic chain reaction of neutrons striking and dividing uranium atoms. Fission divides atoms into small atomic components, thereby releasing tremendous energy in the form of heat. Loads of heat. A core of a nuclear reactor reaches temperatures of 5000 degrees Fahrenheit — half the temperature of the surface of the sun.

This super hot chain reaction cannot be turned-off like a light-bulb. Once ignited, the atomic chain reaction keeps going. At Fukushima, the heat exchange between seawater and the uranium fuel rods is expected to continue over many years. But that’s not the end of the story, the radioactive decay of uranium fuels rods continue for hundreds of thousands of years, and remain deadly for the duration.

Back to today. The reports are sketchy, but thus far it appears that there has been a full meltdown at unit two, and other radiation releases from the deliberate venting of vaporized coolant. Unfortunately, highly dangerous radioisotopes have been released into the environment, including cesium-137, strontium-90, iodine-131 and plutonium-239.

In a failed effort to prevent a meltdown, utility workers had dipped fire hoses into the ocean and pumped in seawater to cover the reactor core. (Apparently, at unit two a valve stuck, leaving the rods are fully exposed, leading to a full meltdown.) The containment vessel has been breached. A horrible witches brew of radioactive contaminants is being unleashed. (The mixed-oxide fuel in Unit 3, uranium blended with weapons-grade plutonium, is also troubling.) Another worry is the decades-worth of spent fuel rods stored on site — these pools appear to be failing.

The Fukushima meltdown not only impacts Japan but the entire world as well. The Chernobyl plume traveled around the globe and especially affected Scandinavia – over a thousand miles away the site. Chernobyl was responsible for tens of thousands of cancers.

Here’s the problem — radioisotopes enter the food chain. The radioactive variety of iodine, I-131, is readily absorbed by the thyroid. It is a strong gamma emitter, and once perched in the thyroid, I-131 slices-up the DNA of healthy cells, converting them to malformed cancer cells. Other isotopes pose a threat. Strontium is metabolised in the body as calcium and cesium is absorbed as potassium. Once ingested, these cancer-causing radioactive agents become part of our bones.

With the news of a full meltdown, wind patterns will likely deliver radiation to the West Coast in about five days. As I-131 has a toxic life of 80 days it is advisable for pregnant women and children to ingest potassium iodine (KI) to flood the thyroid with “good” iodine, thus keeping radioactive iodine out of the body. It’s important to note that KI only defeats I-131 and not the other deadly isotopes.

On television this weekend we’ve seen a parade of nuclear industry spokespeople and medically-ignorant physicists downplay the health ramifications. The experts like to say it’s “fear” we have to worry about, not the radiation. Some are even bemoaning the loss of nuclear power as a means of thwarting climate change. (Never mind that virtually every environmental group opposes nuclear power and prefers safe clean renewable energy.)

The fact is that radiation is never healthy. Rather than take industry’s word on it, I encourage you to read what medical researchers and physicians have to say. The National Academy of Science’s latest report on the Biological Effects of Ionizing Radiation, BIER-VII, says that the smallest dose of low-level ionizing radiation has the potential to cause health risks to humans.

Nuclear technology is so fraught with some many hazards, can we honestly engineer our way out of them? The answer is no. We’re dealing with 5000 degree temperatures, atomic chain reactions, and radiation that remains deadly for hundreds of thousands of years. Even Prometheus couldn’t handle this fire.

For background on the unfolding incident I suggest the following websites:

* Beyond Nuclear

* Washington Post backgrounder

* Union of Concerned Scientists blog

* Institute for Energy and Environmental Research

What can you do?

1. If you wish to stay apprised of the crisis, please let me know.

2. Activists along the Pacific coast are monitoring for radiation — let me know if you wish to participate.

3. Encourage local health officials to safely distribute KI pills in orderly fashion.

- Jonathan Parfrey

Jonathan Parfrey is executive director of the Green LA Coalition. For thirteen years he served as executive director of Physicians for Social Responsibility in Los Angeles and currently serves on the board of directors of the Alliance for Nuclear Responsibility.

Links work on this page: http://greenlacoalition.org/resources/email-archive/thoughts-on-the-nuclear-disaster-in-japan/

Edited March 15, 2011 by pow

[CSpec]

If this is the worst case disaster for a nuclear plant, nuclear seems pretty darn safe to me.

[PurdueGuy]

If this is the worst case disaster for a nuclear plant, nuclear seems pretty darn safe to me.

Yup, we're talking about a 8.9-9.0 earthquake and ~275 (and constantly rising) "aftershocks" of 5.0 or higher (IMO "aftershock" doesn't feel like the right descriptor, as it brings to mind little tremors, when it seems that 5.0 would be considered a legitimate earthquake on its own). And it's not even the earthquake that seems to have been the problem, it was the tsunami messing up the backup power generation to pump coolant.

Sadly, the situation has gotten much worse than most experts thought it could, and is looking like it could potentially actually be harmful to the environment around the plant. Very sad, and it will set the nuclear power industry back, probably decades, because of the bad PR.

[Croc]

From an email I got today:

Dear Friend,

Last Friday’s earthquake and tsunami in northeastern Japan was a tragic reminder of the earth’s destructive power. The death toll is expected to be in the tens of thousands.

What is occurring, however, at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is no natural disaster, but a human-made one.

You are no doubt reading reports of the situation in Japan. As of late-afternoon today, at unit two, an explosion has ruptured the primary containment vessel, and at two other units there have been partial meltdowns; emergency personnel have been evacuated; over 200,000 people have been evacuated from the area; radiation from damaged reactors has set off radiation detectors seventy-five miles away; the American fleet, including the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan, is moving to safer waters, after 17 personnel tested positive for radiation exposure.

The environmental community must be able to speak credibly about nuclear power, so, at minimum, a cursory knowledge of physics and medicine is helpful.

In a nuclear reactor, heat is harvested to create steam, in turn, the steam spins the turbines that create electricity. The heat is created by an atomic chain reaction of neutrons striking and dividing uranium atoms. Fission divides atoms into small atomic components, thereby releasing tremendous energy in the form of heat. Loads of heat. A core of a nuclear reactor reaches temperatures of 5000 degrees Fahrenheit — half the temperature of the surface of the sun.

This super hot chain reaction cannot be turned-off like a light-bulb. Once ignited, the atomic chain reaction keeps going. At Fukushima, the heat exchange between seawater and the uranium fuel rods is expected to continue over many years. But that’s not the end of the story, the radioactive decay of uranium fuels rods continue for hundreds of thousands of years, and remain deadly for the duration.

Back to today. The reports are sketchy, but thus far it appears that there has been a full meltdown at unit two, and other radiation releases from the deliberate venting of vaporized coolant. Unfortunately, highly dangerous radioisotopes have been released into the environment, including cesium-137, strontium-90, iodine-131 and plutonium-239.

In a failed effort to prevent a meltdown, utility workers had dipped fire hoses into the ocean and pumped in seawater to cover the reactor core. (Apparently, at unit two a valve stuck, leaving the rods are fully exposed, leading to a full meltdown.) The containment vessel has been breached. A horrible witches brew of radioactive contaminants is being unleashed. (The mixed-oxide fuel in Unit 3, uranium blended with weapons-grade plutonium, is also troubling.) Another worry is the decades-worth of spent fuel rods stored on site — these pools appear to be failing.

The Fukushima meltdown not only impacts Japan but the entire world as well. The Chernobyl plume traveled around the globe and especially affected Scandinavia – over a thousand miles away the site. Chernobyl was responsible for tens of thousands of cancers.

Here’s the problem — radioisotopes enter the food chain. The radioactive variety of iodine, I-131, is readily absorbed by the thyroid. It is a strong gamma emitter, and once perched in the thyroid, I-131 slices-up the DNA of healthy cells, converting them to malformed cancer cells. Other isotopes pose a threat. Strontium is metabolised in the body as calcium and cesium is absorbed as potassium. Once ingested, these cancer-causing radioactive agents become part of our bones.

With the news of a full meltdown, wind patterns will likely deliver radiation to the West Coast in about five days. As I-131 has a toxic life of 80 days it is advisable for pregnant women and children to ingest potassium iodine (KI) to flood the thyroid with “good” iodine, thus keeping radioactive iodine out of the body. It’s important to note that KI only defeats I-131 and not the other deadly isotopes.

On television this weekend we’ve seen a parade of nuclear industry spokespeople and medically-ignorant physicists downplay the health ramifications. The experts like to say it’s “fear” we have to worry about, not the radiation. Some are even bemoaning the loss of nuclear power as a means of thwarting climate change. (Never mind that virtually every environmental group opposes nuclear power and prefers safe clean renewable energy.)

The fact is that radiation is never healthy. Rather than take industry’s word on it, I encourage you to read what medical researchers and physicians have to say. The National Academy of Science’s latest report on the Biological Effects of Ionizing Radiation, BIER-VII, says that the smallest dose of low-level ionizing radiation has the potential to cause health risks to humans.

Nuclear technology is so fraught with some many hazards, can we honestly engineer our way out of them? The answer is no. We’re dealing with 5000 degree temperatures, atomic chain reactions, and radiation that remains deadly for hundreds of thousands of years. Even Prometheus couldn’t handle this fire.

For background on the unfolding incident I suggest the following websites:

* Beyond Nuclear

* Washington Post backgrounder

* Union of Concerned Scientists blog

* Institute for Energy and Environmental Research

What can you do?

1. If you wish to stay apprised of the crisis, please let me know.

2. Activists along the Pacific coast are monitoring for radiation — let me know if you wish to participate.

3. Encourage local health officials to safely distribute KI pills in orderly fashion.

- Jonathan Parfrey

Jonathan Parfrey is executive director of the Green LA Coalition. For thirteen years he served as executive director of Physicians for Social Responsibility in Los Angeles and currently serves on the board of directors of the Alliance for Nuclear Responsibility.

Links work on this page: http://greenlacoalit...aster-in-japan/

OK, is there anything I can do to protect myself to minimize exposure? That's what I want to know more than anything.

[CSpec]

From an email I got today:

Dear Friend,

Last Friday’s earthquake and tsunami in northeastern Japan was a tragic reminder of the earth’s destructive power. The death toll is expected to be in the tens of thousands.

What is occurring, however, at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is no natural disaster, but a human-made one.

You are no doubt reading reports of the situation in Japan. As of late-afternoon today, at unit two, an explosion has ruptured the primary containment vessel, and at two other units there have been partial meltdowns; emergency personnel have been evacuated; over 200,000 people have been evacuated from the area; radiation from damaged reactors has set off radiation detectors seventy-five miles away; the American fleet, including the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan, is moving to safer waters, after 17 personnel tested positive for radiation exposure.

The environmental community must be able to speak credibly about nuclear power, so, at minimum, a cursory knowledge of physics and medicine is helpful.

In a nuclear reactor, heat is harvested to create steam, in turn, the steam spins the turbines that create electricity. The heat is created by an atomic chain reaction of neutrons striking and dividing uranium atoms. Fission divides atoms into small atomic components, thereby releasing tremendous energy in the form of heat. Loads of heat. A core of a nuclear reactor reaches temperatures of 5000 degrees Fahrenheit — half the temperature of the surface of the sun.

This super hot chain reaction cannot be turned-off like a light-bulb. Once ignited, the atomic chain reaction keeps going. At Fukushima, the heat exchange between seawater and the uranium fuel rods is expected to continue over many years. But that’s not the end of the story, the radioactive decay of uranium fuels rods continue for hundreds of thousands of years, and remain deadly for the duration.

Back to today. The reports are sketchy, but thus far it appears that there has been a full meltdown at unit two, and other radiation releases from the deliberate venting of vaporized coolant. Unfortunately, highly dangerous radioisotopes have been released into the environment, including cesium-137, strontium-90, iodine-131 and plutonium-239.

In a failed effort to prevent a meltdown, utility workers had dipped fire hoses into the ocean and pumped in seawater to cover the reactor core. (Apparently, at unit two a valve stuck, leaving the rods are fully exposed, leading to a full meltdown.) The containment vessel has been breached. A horrible witches brew of radioactive contaminants is being unleashed. (The mixed-oxide fuel in Unit 3, uranium blended with weapons-grade plutonium, is also troubling.) Another worry is the decades-worth of spent fuel rods stored on site — these pools appear to be failing.

The Fukushima meltdown not only impacts Japan but the entire world as well. The Chernobyl plume traveled around the globe and especially affected Scandinavia – over a thousand miles away the site. Chernobyl was responsible for tens of thousands of cancers.

Here’s the problem — radioisotopes enter the food chain. The radioactive variety of iodine, I-131, is readily absorbed by the thyroid. It is a strong gamma emitter, and once perched in the thyroid, I-131 slices-up the DNA of healthy cells, converting them to malformed cancer cells. Other isotopes pose a threat. Strontium is metabolised in the body as calcium and cesium is absorbed as potassium. Once ingested, these cancer-causing radioactive agents become part of our bones.

With the news of a full meltdown, wind patterns will likely deliver radiation to the West Coast in about five days. As I-131 has a toxic life of 80 days it is advisable for pregnant women and children to ingest potassium iodine (KI) to flood the thyroid with “good” iodine, thus keeping radioactive iodine out of the body. It’s important to note that KI only defeats I-131 and not the other deadly isotopes.

On television this weekend we’ve seen a parade of nuclear industry spokespeople and medically-ignorant physicists downplay the health ramifications. The experts like to say it’s “fear” we have to worry about, not the radiation. Some are even bemoaning the loss of nuclear power as a means of thwarting climate change. (Never mind that virtually every environmental group opposes nuclear power and prefers safe clean renewable energy.)

The fact is that radiation is never healthy. Rather than take industry’s word on it, I encourage you to read what medical researchers and physicians have to say. The National Academy of Science’s latest report on the Biological Effects of Ionizing Radiation, BIER-VII, says that the smallest dose of low-level ionizing radiation has the potential to cause health risks to humans.

Nuclear technology is so fraught with some many hazards, can we honestly engineer our way out of them? The answer is no. We’re dealing with 5000 degree temperatures, atomic chain reactions, and radiation that remains deadly for hundreds of thousands of years. Even Prometheus couldn’t handle this fire.

For background on the unfolding incident I suggest the following websites:

* Beyond Nuclear

* Washington Post backgrounder

* Union of Concerned Scientists blog

* Institute for Energy and Environmental Research

What can you do?

1. If you wish to stay apprised of the crisis, please let me know.

2. Activists along the Pacific coast are monitoring for radiation — let me know if you wish to participate.

3. Encourage local health officials to safely distribute KI pills in orderly fashion.

- Jonathan Parfrey

Jonathan Parfrey is executive director of the Green LA Coalition. For thirteen years he served as executive director of Physicians for Social Responsibility in Los Angeles and currently serves on the board of directors of the Alliance for Nuclear Responsibility.

Links work on this page: http://greenlacoalit...aster-in-japan/

OK, is there anything I can do to protect myself to minimize exposure? That's what I want to know more than anything.

Again, what fraction of an X-ray can you expect 5000 miles away?

[Drew Dowdell]

If this is the worst case disaster for a nuclear plant, nuclear seems pretty darn safe to me.

Yup, we're talking about a 8.9-9.0 earthquake and ~275 (and constantly rising) "aftershocks" of 5.0 or higher (IMO "aftershock" doesn't feel like the right descriptor, as it brings to mind little tremors, when it seems that 5.0 would be considered a legitimate earthquake on its own). And it's not even the earthquake that seems to have been the problem, it was the tsunami messing up the backup power generation to pump coolant.

Sadly, the situation has gotten much worse than most experts thought it could, and is looking like it could potentially actually be harmful to the environment around the plant. Very sad, and it will set the nuclear power industry back, probably decades, because of the bad PR.

One of the aftershocks was 6.9. That's not an aftershock... that's another earthquake!

From an email I got today:

Dear Friend,

Last Friday's earthquake and tsunami in northeastern Japan was a tragic reminder of the earth's destructive power. The death toll is expected to be in the tens of thousands.

What is occurring, however, at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is no natural disaster, but a human-made one.

You are no doubt reading reports of the situation in Japan. As of late-afternoon today, at unit two, an explosion has ruptured the primary containment vessel, and at two other units there have been partial meltdowns; emergency personnel have been evacuated; over 200,000 people have been evacuated from the area; radiation from damaged reactors has set off radiation detectors seventy-five miles away; the American fleet, including the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan, is moving to safer waters, after 17 personnel tested positive for radiation exposure.

The environmental community must be able to speak credibly about nuclear power, so, at minimum, a cursory knowledge of physics and medicine is helpful.

In a nuclear reactor, heat is harvested to create steam, in turn, the steam spins the turbines that create electricity. The heat is created by an atomic chain reaction of neutrons striking and dividing uranium atoms. Fission divides atoms into small atomic components, thereby releasing tremendous energy in the form of heat. Loads of heat. A core of a nuclear reactor reaches temperatures of 5000 degrees Fahrenheit — half the temperature of the surface of the sun.

This super hot chain reaction cannot be turned-off like a light-bulb. Once ignited, the atomic chain reaction keeps going. At Fukushima, the heat exchange between seawater and the uranium fuel rods is expected to continue over many years. But that's not the end of the story, the radioactive decay of uranium fuels rods continue for hundreds of thousands of years, and remain deadly for the duration.

Back to today. The reports are sketchy, but thus far it appears that there has been a full meltdown at unit two, and other radiation releases from the deliberate venting of vaporized coolant. Unfortunately, highly dangerous radioisotopes have been released into the environment, including cesium-137, strontium-90, iodine-131 and plutonium-239.

In a failed effort to prevent a meltdown, utility workers had dipped fire hoses into the ocean and pumped in seawater to cover the reactor core. (Apparently, at unit two a valve stuck, leaving the rods are fully exposed, leading to a full meltdown.) The containment vessel has been breached. A horrible witches brew of radioactive contaminants is being unleashed. (The mixed-oxide fuel in Unit 3, uranium blended with weapons-grade plutonium, is also troubling.) Another worry is the decades-worth of spent fuel rods stored on site — these pools appear to be failing.

The Fukushima meltdown not only impacts Japan but the entire world as well. The Chernobyl plume traveled around the globe and especially affected Scandinavia – over a thousand miles away the site. Chernobyl was responsible for tens of thousands of cancers.

Here's the problem — radioisotopes enter the food chain. The radioactive variety of iodine, I-131, is readily absorbed by the thyroid. It is a strong gamma emitter, and once perched in the thyroid, I-131 slices-up the DNA of healthy cells, converting them to malformed cancer cells. Other isotopes pose a threat. Strontium is metabolised in the body as calcium and cesium is absorbed as potassium. Once ingested, these cancer-causing radioactive agents become part of our bones.

With the news of a full meltdown, wind patterns will likely deliver radiation to the West Coast in about five days. As I-131 has a toxic life of 80 days it is advisable for pregnant women and children to ingest potassium iodine (KI) to flood the thyroid with "good" iodine, thus keeping radioactive iodine out of the body. It's important to note that KI only defeats I-131 and not the other deadly isotopes.

On television this weekend we've seen a parade of nuclear industry spokespeople and medically-ignorant physicists downplay the health ramifications. The experts like to say it's "fear" we have to worry about, not the radiation. Some are even bemoaning the loss of nuclear power as a means of thwarting climate change. (Never mind that virtually every environmental group opposes nuclear power and prefers safe clean renewable energy.)

The fact is that radiation is never healthy. Rather than take industry's word on it, I encourage you to read what medical researchers and physicians have to say. The National Academy of Science's latest report on the Biological Effects of Ionizing Radiation, BIER-VII, says that the smallest dose of low-level ionizing radiation has the potential to cause health risks to humans.

Nuclear technology is so fraught with some many hazards, can we honestly engineer our way out of them? The answer is no. We're dealing with 5000 degree temperatures, atomic chain reactions, and radiation that remains deadly for hundreds of thousands of years. Even Prometheus couldn't handle this fire.

For background on the unfolding incident I suggest the following websites:

* Beyond Nuclear

* Washington Post backgrounder

* Union of Concerned Scientists blog

* Institute for Energy and Environmental Research

What can you do?

1. If you wish to stay apprised of the crisis, please let me know.

2. Activists along the Pacific coast are monitoring for radiation — let me know if you wish to participate.

3. Encourage local health officials to safely distribute KI pills in orderly fashion.

- Jonathan Parfrey

Jonathan Parfrey is executive director of the Green LA Coalition. For thirteen years he served as executive director of Physicians for Social Responsibility in Los Angeles and currently serves on the board of directors of the Alliance for Nuclear Responsibility.

Links work on this page: http://greenlacoalit...aster-in-japan/

OK, is there anything I can do to protect myself to minimize exposure? That's what I want to know more than anything.

Take iodine tablets and hide in a fallout shelter.

[Satty]

Lick Charlie Sheen, he's likely the antidote.

[2b2]

Lick Charlie Sheen, he's likely the antidote.

isn't that a case of the cure being worse than the disease?

[CSpec]

Washington Post says fear of nuclear accidents is worse for your health than the radiation:

Although radiation escaping from a nuclear power plant catastrophe can increase the risk of many cancers and other health problems, stress, anxiety and fear ended up in many ways being much greater long-term threats to health and well-being after Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and other nuclear accidents, experts said Monday.

“

The psychological effects were the biggest health effects of all — by far

.” … “After almost every radiological emergency, anyone or anything seen as or perceived as associated with the emergency came to be seen by others as tainted or something to be feared and even the object of discrimination.” … [After] a much less severe nuclear accident in 1999 in Tokaimura, Japan, … people in other parts of Japan refused to buy products from that region, and travelers were turned away from hotels and asked not to use public baths and swimming pools. …

Studies of more than 80,000 survivors of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki blasts have found that … only about 500 [cancer] cases could be attributed to the radiation exposure the people experienced.

[Robert Hall]

Lick Charlie Sheen, he's likely the antidote.

Is Tiger Blood from a Warlock an antidote to radiation poisoning?

[Croc]

This is now being rated the second-biggest nuclear disaster ever, behind only Chernobyl.

[CSpec]

This is now being rated the second-biggest nuclear disaster ever, behind only Chernobyl.

And it's still a drop in the bucket compared to the REAL disaster, the tsunami itself.

[Drew Dowdell]

far more people have died from the Tsunami than will ever die from the radiation from the meltdown.

far more people will die from not wearing sunscreen than will ever die from the radiation from the meltdown.

[Croc]

far more people have died from the Tsunami than will ever die from the radiation from the meltdown.

far more people will die from not wearing sunscreen than will ever die from the radiation from the meltdown.

So? I'm just providing updates as I hear them.

[Drew Dowdell]

and I appreciate that.

There is a fear surrounding nuclear power that gets whipped up when an accident happens. This isn't even an accident, but a natural disaster.

[Croc]

and I appreciate that.

There is a fear surrounding nuclear power that gets whipped up when an accident happens. This isn't even an accident, but a natural disaster.

Well...it is a bit of both. There are design flaws in the Japanese plant, and multiple levels of redundant systems failed. By the way, we are actually on the verge of a complete meltdown.

The more I'm learning about nuclear power, and how it works, and what a delicate balance it all is to maintain safe operations...I'm becoming less of a fan by the day. I just don't think the risks are worth it.

[z28luvr01]

New Power Line Nearly Ready to Restore Cooling System

[ZL-1]

New Power Line Nearly Ready to Restore Cooling System

I hope this works in getting water back in there...

I think this particular type of reactor is kind of old and should perhaps have been retired by now. Which brings us to the question of how costly it is to safely shut down and dismantle a nuclear power plant; it's an interesting and sometimes overlooked issue whenever the nuclear power debate appears.

[Croc]

New Power Line Nearly Ready to Restore Cooling System

I hope this works in getting water back in there...

I think this particular type of reactor is kind of old and should perhaps have been retired by now. Which brings us to the question of how costly it is to safely shut down and dismantle a nuclear power plant; it's an interesting and sometimes overlooked issue whenever the nuclear power debate appears.

Yes. Apparently the spent reactor tubes have to cool down for TEN YEARS minimum...to then be stored somewhere?? We just don't know what to do with nuclear waste. And reactor tubes last for 6 years...but need 10 to cool down?

[Drew Dowdell]

that's only because of a STUPID 70s era policy that prevents reprocessing the spent fuel into new fuel..... like the Chinese do.

There are also new style reactors that have a heat imposed self limiting system. The hotter the reactor gets, the further apart the fuel is spread. It's a natural force of physics that requires zero human intervention and zero water to remain cool (relative to a melting reactor)

[vonVeezelsnider]

So I don't need to rush buy this item then?

http://cgi.ebay.com/6-CD-Victoreen-Radiation-Dosimeter-Pens-CDV-750-Charger-/220755463095?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item33660d0bb7

[Croc]

that's only because of a STUPID 70s era policy that prevents reprocessing the spent fuel into new fuel..... like the Chinese do.

There are also new style reactors that have a heat imposed self limiting system. The hotter the reactor gets, the further apart the fuel is spread. It's a natural force of physics that requires zero human intervention and zero water to remain cool (relative to a melting reactor)

Wonderful. But it still remains that what's widely in use is this inferior, delicate form of the technology. Also, I wouldn't quite believe everything coming out of China. As someone who was involved in some high speed rail research for use in California, it turns out that a lot of what they put out in press releases is...let's just say wildly optimistic at best.

If the technology exists and is ready to address all of these issues/shortcomings, then why isn't it being implemented? Why no retrofits? You can't put a price on the safety and wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of people, nor can you on environmental devastation.

[Intrepidation]

Back to the natural disaster for a moment, a short story and video that, unless you're heartless, will bring tears to your eyes.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/dog-in-japan-stays-by-the-side-of-its-ailing-friend-in-the-rubble

Good news is that both dogs were rescued.

[CSpec]

that's only because of a STUPID 70s era policy that prevents reprocessing the spent fuel into new fuel..... like the Chinese do.

There are also new style reactors that have a heat imposed self limiting system. The hotter the reactor gets, the further apart the fuel is spread. It's a natural force of physics that requires zero human intervention and zero water to remain cool (relative to a melting reactor)

You can't put a price on the safety and wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of people, nor can you on environmental devastation.

That is false.

[Drew Dowdell]

that's only because of a STUPID 70s era policy that prevents reprocessing the spent fuel into new fuel..... like the Chinese do.

There are also new style reactors that have a heat imposed self limiting system. The hotter the reactor gets, the further apart the fuel is spread. It's a natural force of physics that requires zero human intervention and zero water to remain cool (relative to a melting reactor)

Wonderful. But it still remains that what's widely in use is this inferior, delicate form of the technology. Also, I wouldn't quite believe everything coming out of China. As someone who was involved in some high speed rail research for use in California, it turns out that a lot of what they put out in press releases is...let's just say wildly optimistic at best.

If the technology exists and is ready to address all of these issues/shortcomings, then why isn't it being implemented? Why no retrofits? You can't put a price on the safety and wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of people, nor can you on environmental devastation.

The technology I refer to is a German development that the Chinese have adopted. It's not a new concept, the basic idea has been around for most of the atomic power age. We just decided to go the difficult route for some reason.

[PurdueGuy]

If the technology exists and is ready to address all of these issues/shortcomings, then why isn't it being implemented? Why no retrofits? You can't put a price on the safety and wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of people, nor can you on environmental devastation.

Many of the advancements can't be retrofitted, it'd be like retrofitting a 1971 Camaro to be equal in safety and performance in every way to a 2011 Camaro. You're just as well to start from scratch. Only difference is that no one looks at a 1971 reactor and goes "that's a classic!"

A number of things can be addressed with older reactors, though, and had the Japanese reactor been a little more prepared for a massive tsunami, it might not be facing the current issues (though it's becoming clear that the info we're being given is far from complete - it'll be interesting to see how much of that is Japan trying to cover their butts & how much is just because it's hard to get communication straight when dealing with an emergency.)

I expect at the very least we'll see systems to ensure better reliability of backup power generation and some way to handle excess hydrogen production.

[Croc]

If the technology exists and is ready to address all of these issues/shortcomings, then why isn't it being implemented? Why no retrofits? You can't put a price on the safety and wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of people, nor can you on environmental devastation.

Many of the advancements can't be retrofitted, it'd be like retrofitting a 1971 Camaro to be equal in safety and performance in every way to a 2011 Camaro. You're just as well to start from scratch. Only difference is that no one looks at a 1971 reactor and goes "that's a classic!"

A number of things can be addressed with older reactors, though, and had the Japanese reactor been a little more prepared for a massive tsunami, it might not be facing the current issues (though it's becoming clear that the info we're being given is far from complete - it'll be interesting to see how much of that is Japan trying to cover their butts & how much is just because it's hard to get communication straight when dealing with an emergency.)

I expect at the very least we'll see systems to ensure better reliability of backup power generation and some way to handle excess hydrogen production.

Oh, it's become quite clear that the Japanese (government? Power company? Both?) have been lying to cover their asses and "save face" this whole time. That much became obvious when the US-issued guidelines for Americans entailed an evacuation zone more than twice the radius of the Japanese government's radius.

[Drew Dowdell]

If the technology exists and is ready to address all of these issues/shortcomings, then why isn't it being implemented? Why no retrofits? You can't put a price on the safety and wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of people, nor can you on environmental devastation.

That's like asking why we can't retrofit a '73 VW Bug with Voltec technology. You might be able to do it, but the end result would be messy.

It is completely different reactor design. It doesn't use water to cool itself. It doesn't require the massive facilities to operate.

If the technology exists and is ready to address all of these issues/shortcomings, then why isn't it being implemented? Why no retrofits? You can't put a price on the safety and wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of people, nor can you on environmental devastation.

Many of the advancements can't be retrofitted, it'd be like retrofitting a 1971 Camaro to be equal in safety and performance in every way to a 2011 Camaro. You're just as well to start from scratch. Only difference is that no one looks at a 1971 reactor and goes "that's a classic!"

A number of things can be addressed with older reactors, though, and had the Japanese reactor been a little more prepared for a massive tsunami, it might not be facing the current issues (though it's becoming clear that the info we're being given is far from complete - it'll be interesting to see how much of that is Japan trying to cover their butts & how much is just because it's hard to get communication straight when dealing with an emergency.)

I expect at the very least we'll see systems to ensure better reliability of backup power generation and some way to handle excess hydrogen production.

Oh, it's become quite clear that the Japanese (government? Power company? Both?) have been lying to cover their asses and "save face" this whole time. That much became obvious when the US-issued guidelines for Americans entailed an evacuation zone more than twice the radius of the Japanese government's radius.

Tokyo Power Company - A Subsidiary of Toyota Motor Company?

[Drew Dowdell]

Mayor Richard Daley acknowledged today passengers on a flight from Tokyo had set off radiation detectors at O’Hare International Airport, but he offered no details and said federal officials will be handling the situation.

[Camino LS6]

I feel safe in saying that at least the following two items are lessons we can learn from this.

1. Nuclear plants need an expiation date.

2. The wisdom of placing a half dozen reactors in one spot is dubious at best.

[Croc]

I feel safe in saying that at least the following two items are lessons we can learn from this.

1. Nuclear plants need an expiation date.

2. The wisdom of placing a half dozen reactors in one spot is dubious at best.

Eh, there's no way anyone would ever build six geographically dispersed single-reactor plants. I agree with your first point, however.

If retrofitting were impossible, then I'd call for gradual replacement--build a new, modern reactor and phase out an older, outdated one. Repeat.

[Drew Dowdell]

I feel safe in saying that at least the following two items are lessons we can learn from this.

1. Nuclear plants need a complete redesign/overhaul date.

2. The wisdom of placing a half dozen reactors in one spot is dubious at best.

Some of the basic components like steam towers and turbines are the same regardless of the nature of the heat source.

[PurdueGuy]

Concerning an expiration date:

a) Even these old plants are very safe. Unfortunately this massive cluster of earthquakes and tsunami seem to have found a nasty achelles heel or two, which I'm certain will be taken care of once things settled down enough to know what really happened.

b) I wouldn't necessarily even say an expiration date on the older reactors is a horrible idea, but something like an expiration date is going to end up being decided by government idiots who will base it off of their own ignorance and what will get them re-elected, not engineers basing it off of, you know... facts.

c) An expiration date that makes sense for one generation of reactors may not make any sense at all for another.

[vonVeezelsnider]

An important point to remember is that the tsunami caused all this havoc at the plant, not the earthquake itself. Water washed out diesel cooling pumps or something like that. They had a nuclear power specialist on one of the nationally syndicated talk shows a couple afternoons ago talking about this whole thing and he was basically saying that they "have to build next to the ocean for cooling but can't build next to the ocean for fear of tsunami" ( ) With all the controls and whatnot, especially learning from the mistakes of the past I don't really feel insecure about nuclear plants built well enough inland...

[Croc]

An important point to remember is that the tsunami caused all this havoc at the plant, not the earthquake itself. Water washed out diesel cooling pumps or something like that. They had a nuclear power specialist on one of the nationally syndicated talk shows a couple afternoons ago talking about this whole thing and he was basically saying that they "have to build next to the ocean for cooling but can't build next to the ocean for fear of tsunami" ( ) With all the controls and whatnot, especially learning from the mistakes of the past I don't really feel insecure about nuclear plants built well enough inland...

Actually, I disagree entirely. The tsunami did not cause this. Human error caused this. Human error in making a series of assumptions in the construction of the plant and the seawalls. There were calculated engineering decisions made to locate the plant in its location and put some of its facilities on such low ground, and then there were assumptions on the sea walls--that they'd never be breached.

The plant survived the EQ, and would have survived the tsunami had it had sufficient backup systems and did not rely on an external power source. This appears to be the critical flaw: when the external power source failed, and inadequate backup systems were in place, the cascade of failures began.

Remember, this was the 5th largest EQ in recorded history (only about 200 years, honestly, if even that)...not the largest. It also occurred in the Pacific Ring of Fire--a region known for its frequent and frequently strong seismic activity. It's not like a 10.0 let rip in the middle of Manhattan.

[vonVeezelsnider]

An important point to remember is that the tsunami caused all this havoc at the plant, not the earthquake itself. Water washed out diesel cooling pumps or something like that. They had a nuclear power specialist on one of the nationally syndicated talk shows a couple afternoons ago talking about this whole thing and he was basically saying that they "have to build next to the ocean for cooling but can't build next to the ocean for fear of tsunami" ( ) With all the controls and whatnot, especially learning from the mistakes of the past I don't really feel insecure about nuclear plants built well enough inland...

Actually, I disagree entirely. The tsunami did not cause this. Human error caused this. Human error in making a series of assumptions in the construction of the plant and the seawalls. There were calculated engineering decisions made to locate the plant in its location and put some of its facilities on such low ground, and then there were assumptions on the sea walls--that they'd never be breached.

The plant survived the EQ, and would have survived the tsunami had it had sufficient backup systems and did not rely on an external power source. This appears to be the critical flaw: when the external power source failed, and inadequate backup systems were in place, the cascade of failures began.

Remember, this was the 5th largest EQ in recorded history (only about 200 years, honestly, if even that)...not the largest. It also occurred in the Pacific Ring of Fire--a region known for its frequent and frequently strong seismic activity. It's not like a 10.0 let rip in the middle of Manhattan.

I agree with you if you want to zoom out on the whole thing I was just specifically talking about what killed the backup systems, not the cause behind the cause which is plainly, as you said, human error.

[Croc]

Backup systems still failed solely because they were under-engineered. Then they were caught with their pants down, figuratively.

[balthazar]

Seemed to me from the beginning that the decision to locate a nuc plant on the shoreline of the Ring of Fire was a questionable decision. I hear the 'ocean water' claim, but placed at higher elevations, away from heavily-populated areas seems to 'hedge the bet' more. Or... the major fault lines for Japan are off the east coast- where the plant is. There's plenty of ocean water on the west coast with only short, minor fault lines there.

[Justin Bimmer]

that's only because of a STUPID 70s era policy that prevents reprocessing the spent fuel into new fuel..... like the Chinese do.

There are also new style reactors that have a heat imposed self limiting system. The hotter the reactor gets, the further apart the fuel is spread. It's a natural force of physics that requires zero human intervention and zero water to remain cool (relative to a melting reactor)

Wonderful. But it still remains that what's widely in use is this inferior, delicate form of the technology. Also, I wouldn't quite believe everything coming out of China. As someone who was involved in some high speed rail research for use in California, it turns out that a lot of what they put out in press releases is...let's just say wildly optimistic at best.

If the technology exists and is ready to address all of these issues/shortcomings, then why isn't it being implemented? Why no retrofits? You can't put a price on the safety and wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of people, nor can you on environmental devastation.

Yes you can put a price on this. Apparently Power Plants do this all the time. Report: U.S. nuke plant problems ignored, including in Vt. Read more: Report: U.S. nuke plant problems ignored, including in Vt. | Boston Business Journal

The NRC and Nuclear Power Plant Safety in 2010

[Croc]

that's only because of a STUPID 70s era policy that prevents reprocessing the spent fuel into new fuel..... like the Chinese do.

There are also new style reactors that have a heat imposed self limiting system. The hotter the reactor gets, the further apart the fuel is spread. It's a natural force of physics that requires zero human intervention and zero water to remain cool (relative to a melting reactor)

Wonderful. But it still remains that what's widely in use is this inferior, delicate form of the technology. Also, I wouldn't quite believe everything coming out of China. As someone who was involved in some high speed rail research for use in California, it turns out that a lot of what they put out in press releases is...let's just say wildly optimistic at best.

If the technology exists and is ready to address all of these issues/shortcomings, then why isn't it being implemented? Why no retrofits? You can't put a price on the safety and wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of people, nor can you on environmental devastation.

Yes you can put a price on this. Apparently Power Plants do this all the time. Report: U.S. nuke plant problems ignored, including in Vt. Read more: Report: U.S. nuke plant problems ignored, including in Vt. | Boston Business Journal

The NRC and Nuclear Power Plant Safety in 2010

Let's put it this way: companies do it all the time, and then when a disaster strikes, or a product liability case goes public and it is revealed that these calculations were behind why the disaster struck/the defect was never rectified, there is a huuuuuuuuuuuuge public outcry over how unconscionable the practice is. There are also quite a few arguments about the methodologies behind the practice relating to their accuracy.

It's one of those things that theoretically is sound, but in the real world doesn't pass muster, especially when it becomes public. So while one can do it, IMO it's simply an exercise in futility. I mean do I really have to bring up the Pinto or the 1978-1983 Chevrolet Malibu to illustrate how ridiculous this practice is? I'm pretty sure it ended up costing way more in the long run.