Random Thoughts Thread

[David]

OUCH and the Ford recalls keep coming. This time, a retainer bolt on the inside of the steering box fails and causes the steering box to lock up. All 2023 Broncos are on a do not deliver, do not drive list awaiting replacement parts.

Ford Issues 2023 Bronco ‘Do Not Deliver-Do Not Drive’ Order (msn.com)

[David]

@oldshurst442 @ccap41

2024 Hyundai Ioniq 5 N Is No Mere Carbon-Copy Kia (caranddriver.com)

Seems while they are not ready to give any firm statistics, the N Performance Edition will be north of 600 HP and they are definitly not just coping the Kia EV6 GT which is only 576 HP.

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, David said:

OUCH and the Ford recalls keep coming. This time, a retainer bolt on the inside of the steering box fails and causes the steering box to lock up. All 2023 Broncos are on a do not deliver, do not drive list awaiting replacement parts.

Ford Issues 2023 Bronco ‘Do Not Deliver-Do Not Drive’ Order (msn.com)

Recalls are annoying.  Crashes and casualties are worse.  Ford could have waited a few months to weed out all the bugs to avoid recalls.

[David]

Have to say that I agree with this story about how Chevrolet has beaten Porsche.

10 Things That Make The Chevy Corvette E-Ray Better Than The Porsche 911 (topspeed.com)

#10 - Corvette is more powerful, 495 base horsepower compared to 911 GTS 473 horsepower.

#9 - Corvette E-Ray is faster than the Porsche, Corvette is 2.5 seconds 0-60 where Porsche is 2.8 seconds 0-60 automatic, 3.2 seconds if manual.

#8 - Utility and space management, Corvette is better than Porsche for interior room and cargo space.

#7 - Affordability, Corvette E-Ray starts at $102,900 compard to Porsche 911 starts at $107,000 and if you go 911 Carrera S that is more equal to the E-Ray, starting price is $124,000 making the Corvette E-Ray the best value for performance cars.

#6 - Fuel-efficient - E-Ray is more fuel efficient than the Porsche.

#5 - Hybrid, Corvette Hybrid is here today, Porsche says they will have a Hybrid in the future.

#4 - Stealth Mode - Corvette has this that allows you to drive away in pure electric mode staying very quiet where Porsche does not have this so the loud exhaust will be there to wake everyone up.

#3 - Magnetic Ride Control 4.0, faster auto adjusting suspension than the Porsche PASM auto adjusting suspension.

#2 - Fuel tank size, Corvette E-Ray has a 18.5 gallon gas tank compared to Porsche 16.9 gallon gas tank.

#1 - PowerTrain Warranty - Corvette E-Ray has a 5 year / 60,000 mile warranty, Porsche gives you a 4 year / 50,000 mile warranty.

[David]

12 hours ago, David said:

Have to say that I agree with this story about how Chevrolet has beaten Porsche.

10 Things That Make The Chevy Corvette E-Ray Better Than The Porsche 911 (topspeed.com)

#10 - Corvette is more powerful, 495 base horsepower compared to 911 GTS 473 horsepower.

#9 - Corvette E-Ray is faster than the Porsche, Corvette is 2.5 seconds 0-60 where Porsche is 2.8 seconds 0-60 automatic, 3.2 seconds if manual.

#8 - Utility and space management, Corvette is better than Porsche for interior room and cargo space.

#7 - Affordability, Corvette E-Ray starts at $102,900 compard to Porsche 911 starts at $107,000 and if you go 911 Carrera S that is more equal to the E-Ray, starting price is $124,000 making the Corvette E-Ray the best value for performance cars.

#6 - Fuel-efficient - E-Ray is more fuel efficient than the Porsche.

#5 - Hybrid, Corvette Hybrid is here today, Porsche says they will have a Hybrid in the future.

#4 - Stealth Mode - Corvette has this that allows you to drive away in pure electric mode staying very quiet where Porsche does not have this so the loud exhaust will be there to wake everyone up.

#3 - Magnetic Ride Control 4.0, faster auto adjusting suspension than the Porsche PASM auto adjusting suspension.

#2 - Fuel tank size, Corvette E-Ray has a 18.5 gallon gas tank compared to Porsche 16.9 gallon gas tank.

#1 - PowerTrain Warranty - Corvette E-Ray has a 5 year / 60,000 mile warranty, Porsche gives you a 4 year / 50,000 mile warranty.

It dawned on me that the Stealth Mode can help the single guys or gals sneak away from a 1 night stand if they so choose. 😆

Saw this write up on the SVB bank failure and have to say it is very illuminating.
 

Silicon Valley Bank

 

It’s hard to miss the news this week that sparked major disruptions in the banking industry. A sequence of events rapidly unfolded, resulting in the second largest bank failure in US history last week. Subsequent reports from other banks experiencing problems followed. The trigger started with an increased volume of withdrawals from venture-backed start-ups. This segment has struggled to obtain incremental investments in this conservative fiscal environment, so drawing more funds without incremental investments caused a strain on the banking reserves. Bad decisions on long-dated bond investments by Silicon Valley Bank (SVB) that resulted in a $1.8 billion loss inflated the problem. Management of SVB failed to hold enough liquidity to meet the increasing demands. SVC’s announcement that they were looking to raise more capital via additional share sales to cover their shortfall on March 8^th was quickly amplified on social media and caused a rapid bank run by customers.

 The whole collapse took a mere 48 hours to unfold.

 The SVB financial concentration on technology companies did not just affect small, early-stage start-ups. Some of the well-established technology companies affected included Roku, Etsy, and Cloudian. Here’s a more complete list that spans the US, Europe, and Asia. The impact felt by customers, employees, and other businesses serving the businesses affected by this collapse affects secondary and tertiary levels.

 Unlike the 2008 financial collapse triggered by over-leveraged lending, this event was not due to the fundamental integrity of customers, but rather to the fact that management failed to satisfy its fiduciary responsibility to preserve liquidity. More fuel was added to the fire by increasing interest rates, decreased VC investments, and fewer acquisition exits – a combination predictable in this more conservative fiscal phase we’re now in.

 In Europe, HSBC took over the U.K. division of SVB over the weekend. Accepting all of their assets and liabilities in exchange for £1, HSBC came to rescue of many customers and businesses worried about their livelihoods. 451 Research explains:

 The deal will considerably boost HSBC's exposure to startups and high-growth companies — a segment of the market that risk-averse incumbent banks in the U.K. have typically shied away from. As of March 10, SVB (U.K.) had loans of £5.5 billion and deposits of in the region of £6.7 billion, and about 3,300 clients. SVB (U.K.) turned a pre-tax profit of £88 million in the 2022 financial year. Although SVB (U.K.) does not make its fintech client list public, previous press releases suggest that it has lent money to the likes of well-known payments and remittance company Wise PLC (formerly TransferWise) and Liberis, a U.K.-based embedded finance specialist.

 Although HSBC's appearance as a white knight came as a surprise to many, the multinational bank has been bolstering its U.K. small and medium-sized business lending proposition in recent years, which suggests that the deal is strategic as well as opportunistic. HSBC launched its digital small-business banking product, Kinetic, in 2021, and its customer base stood at 53,000 as of year-end 2022. It also launched a global SMB  platform, Business Go, whose signups totaled 95,000 at the end of 2022.

 There’s still a lot more to come as the situation continues to unfold. 451 Research reminded its readers this week that it will take years for technology deal making and trust to recover. As other banking institutions come into the mix, the challenges will extend well beyond the technology industry. Here’s a write up from Fidelity if you have interest in their point of view.

[David]

Very interesting reading on Oil. 

Combustion-vehicle sales peaked in 2017, peak oil due in 2027 (greencarreports.com)

Originally peak consumer sales were expected around 2022 and commercial around 2036. Now we see consumer ice sales peaked in 2017 and commercial is now expected in 2027.

Days of OIL are over, welcome to the electrical revolution.

[David]

Have to LAUGH at this one, especially the white guy that is trying to bring the attention to Tesla CEO Musk as saying China is Tesla Territory. LOL

Cadillac goes after Tesla by setting up test drives at Supercharger station | Electrek

Smart Marketing by Cadillac of China.

 

[oldshurst442]

17 hours ago, David said:

Have to say that I agree with this story about how Chevrolet has beaten Porsche.

10 Things That Make The Chevy Corvette E-Ray Better Than The Porsche 911 (topspeed.com)

#10 - Corvette is more powerful, 495 base horsepower compared to 911 GTS 473 horsepower.

#9 - Corvette E-Ray is faster than the Porsche, Corvette is 2.5 seconds 0-60 where Porsche is 2.8 seconds 0-60 automatic, 3.2 seconds if manual.

#8 - Utility and space management, Corvette is better than Porsche for interior room and cargo space.

#7 - Affordability, Corvette E-Ray starts at $102,900 compard to Porsche 911 starts at $107,000 and if you go 911 Carrera S that is more equal to the E-Ray, starting price is $124,000 making the Corvette E-Ray the best value for performance cars.

#6 - Fuel-efficient - E-Ray is more fuel efficient than the Porsche.

#5 - Hybrid, Corvette Hybrid is here today, Porsche says they will have a Hybrid in the future.

#4 - Stealth Mode - Corvette has this that allows you to drive away in pure electric mode staying very quiet where Porsche does not have this so the loud exhaust will be there to wake everyone up.

#3 - Magnetic Ride Control 4.0, faster auto adjusting suspension than the Porsche PASM auto adjusting suspension.

#2 - Fuel tank size, Corvette E-Ray has a 18.5 gallon gas tank compared to Porsche 16.9 gallon gas tank.

#1 - PowerTrain Warranty - Corvette E-Ray has a 5 year / 60,000 mile warranty, Porsche gives you a 4 year / 50,000 mile warranty.

*SIGH*

Apples to Oranges

 What Porsche 911 are we comparing the E-Ray to?    Base Porsche 911? ALL of the trims?  It seems the article jumps from trim to trim when comparing the 911.   And a hybrid 911 is not available yet.  Soon. But not yet.   The E-Ray looks to be a great C8 Vette, but lets wait and see what Porsche can and will do with a hybrid 911 and THEN let us see IF an E-Ray is better than a Porsche 911...

Because of where Im sitting at, a Corvette C8 Stingray, Z51, Z06 and an E-Ray are GREAT competitors to the 911, and of course for thousands of dollars less, but...the 911 still remains just a smidgen better than a C8 in ALL categories except price tag.   

But...comparing apple Vette C8 to apple 911 as in the Z06 and GT3.  The Z06 does its best to best the 911 GT3 and comes oh sooooooo close to besting it. And it actually does best it in some metrics.  And because of that, we have to take the time to bow and applaud and give a standing ovation to the  Corvette's engineers that have come THAT close in dethroning Porshe and its 911 and the 911 GT3 and never forgetting that the mid-engined C8 is the Corvette's engineer's FIRST ATTEMPT.   

But...the 911 being the 911, and Porsche being Porsche, in some other metrics,  metrics that  define what a GT3 and Z06 should be and behave,  the 911 GT3 outshines the Z06 easily.   And...there is a trim level ABOVE the GT3.  Its the GT3 RS and the Corvette Z06 does NOT have an answer to that trim...  Not yet at least...  But until then, the 911 will forever be just one smidgen step better than a Corvette C8.     The Z07 package is NOT an RS equivalent.  The RS is a RAW track car but the Z06 no matter what aeropackage we add on it (Z07), the Z06 still remains a GT car.  Its got GT car luxuries.  To be a RAW track car, the Z06 has to LOSE some of the heavy luxury GT car items... 

A Corvette is many things. Many good things.  And with the C8, the Corvette has become even MORE and BETTER things.   But Porsche and its 911 are  just...THE standard that ALL sports car makers benchmark.  And for good reason. And the C8 is one of these sportscars that a 911 GT3 RS no less, was benchmarked after.  And Corvette engineers have come close, very close in besting the 911.  But Corvette development lacks the one area where Porsche  just obliterates everybody else, including Ferrari, Lamborghini and McLaren and all others.   Porsche develops the 911 in ALL KINDS of flavours.  Until the Corvette has as many engineered flavours as the 911 has, the Corvette will ALWAYS lag just a smidgen behind the 911.   And the irony of that article is that the journalist cherry picks the various 911 trims...   The 911 is highly customizable to fit what the owner wants of his 911.  THAT is a BIG plus and an advantage for the 911 versus all other sports cars straight from the factory.  The Corvette is that too, highly customizable, but its done aftermarket, not at the factory level.  This comes at a price for the 911.  But the 911 commands that price and 911 owners WILLING dish it.  Its NOT a fault. Its a strength.  

Just click on the link below to visit the site and then click on all the various 911 trims to see all the specs.   

https://www.cars.com/research/porsche-911-2023/trims/

 

Until Corvette has as many trim levels as the 911, then we could talk about the Corvette being "better".      

IMO, the article stating the E-Ray is better than "a 911"  is just lazy journalism attempting to sound like its meaningful in some way.  (Yes I read it) 

 

 

[oldshurst442]

I defend the Corvette when I see the Vette be disrespected.  But I am not a blind fanboy either.  

The Vette has its place in the sportscar world.  Its even benchmarked by Porsche although Porsche will NEVER admit to it.  But  I dont like reading nonsense disrespecting another giant in the sportscar world.  Whether it be a mid-engined V8 Ferrari or Porsche 911.   All three, Vette, Ferrari and 911, all have cemented their place in the sportscar world and all three do their thing their own way. None are better than the other.  Each has its own path and an enthusiast need NOT choose one over the other, but an enthusiast SHOULD enjoy either of them for what they are! 

[David]

@oldshurst442 Not a blind fan boy either of the corvetter but I did feel the writeup was a fair assessment since GM is very open about bench marking the Corvette against the 911 series. In this regards corvette e-ray does surpass Porsche and you are right, it will be interesting to see what the Hybrid is.

In regards to the 911 GT3 RS (Racing Edition) here we can compare apples to apples.

Porsche 911 GT3 RS - Porsche USA

2023 911 GT3 RS MSRP starting price $223,800, 518 hp / 342 ft-lbs of torque

And I find lots of stories on the C8.R edition but no specifications/cost, but I would think this is what would be put up against the 911 GT3 RS or am I missing something.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, David said:

@oldshurst442 Not a blind fan boy either of the corvetter but I did feel the writeup was a fair assessment since GM is very open about bench marking the Corvette against the 911 series. In this regards corvette e-ray does surpass Porsche and you are right, it will be interesting to see what the Hybrid is.

In regards to the 911 GT3 RS (Racing Edition) here we can compare apples to apples.

Porsche 911 GT3 RS - Porsche USA

2023 911 GT3 RS MSRP starting price $223,800, 518 hp / 342 ft-lbs of torque

And I find lots of stories on the C8.R edition but no specifications/cost, but I would think this is what would be put up against the 911 GT3 RS or am I missing something.

The C8.R edition is just a sticker and badge trim job on the  Stingray Z51 to commorate the race bred C8R. 

 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-chevrolet-corvette-c8-imsa-gtlm-championship-edition/

Let's just say the Chevrolet Corvette C8.R race cars did pretty well in the 2020 IMSA series, taking home three different titles. To commemorate this, Chevy whipped up a special edition package for the 2022 Corvette Stingray: the 2022 Corvette Stingray IMSA GTLM Championship Edition...

...The foundation for the Championship Edition is the Stingray 3LT Z51 in either Accelerate Yellow (to honor the No. 3 car) or Hypersonic Gray (the No. 4), to which the special edition adds a $6,595 bump. That upcharge nets buyers contrasting accent stripes—gray for the yellow car, and yellow for the gray—and a bevy of special touches. A Carbon Flash-painted high-wing spoiler, yellow brake calipers, black-finished "trident" wheels with "Jake" center caps, Carbon Flash-painted mirrors, black rockers, and splash guards are the main pieces. And don't forget the large "C8.R" decal on the flank.

 

 

Chevy will offer a GT3 class race car for the public to buy. But it wont be a road legal car. It will be a legit race car whoever wants to buy it to race it legally on a race track.  It will be 95%-99%   like the C8R but with a modified 5.5liter  from the race car.  Not from the Z06's car.  Although the race engine and the road car's 5.5 liter are about 90%-95% the same...   

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38224296/chevy-corvette-z06-gt3r-revealed/

 

Customers will soon be able to race the C8 Corvette Z06 GT3 race car that uses the same chassis as the road car and a modified version of the 5.5-liter V-8.

 

• Chevrolet Racing will offer a Z06 GT3.R customer race car starting in 2024.
• It uses the same aluminum chassis as the C8 Z06 road car and a modified version of the 5.5-liter flat-plane-crank V-8.
• Customers will be able to race in the IMSA WeatherTech Series and other GT3 racing series with the Z06 GT3.R.

 

 

Just to tie this in to what we have been talking about, the Porsche 911 GT3 RS is a road legal, pure track machine that one could race on the track, but also drive on the street.   Chevrolet would have to take the Z06, delete all the heavy GT luxury options, cut more weight off the chassis by using more extensive use of carbon fibre...use ACTIVE aero.  This is what an RS version of the GT3 is all about.   The C8 Z06 GT3.R had it been road legal by adding road legal stuff to it such as headlights... would be a further step of being a more RAW road legal track car of a  GT3 RS Porsche.   Just to give you an idea of what the Porsche GT3 RS is.  

order of track car rawness that strays farther than a GT car

1. GT3 equals Z06  

2. Z06 with Z07 package

3. GT3 RS

4. Z06 GT3R if it were road legal with added street legal and necessary equipment

https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/911-gt3-gt3-rs

 

GT3

 

 

GT3 RS

 

CarandDriver ranks the Z06 as the track car to buy...but that is because the Z06, or any Corvette for that matter, is a FRACTION of the price of the Porsche's starting price...any 911...

But when discussing driving dynamics of the track cars in question, the weight and the weight transfers around corners and everything that a track car should be doing right, the Gt3 and the GT3 RS have the Corvette Z06 beat.  Some performance metrics and the Z06 actually beats any of the 911 GT variants, but as an over all track performance car, its the 911 that edges out the victory. 

Its not a bad thing that the Corvette loses to the 911 this way.    

Its not a bad thing that the Z06 beats the 911 in some of the performance metrics.

Its just a testament to how focused the 911 really is as a sports car.  Its a testament to how much R&D is put into the development of the 911. Hoe refined and tuned the 911 is and how dedicated Porsche IS to the 911.   

Its also a testament to Corvette engineering as to how serious they are in giving the people a sports car that is sooooooooo close to a Porsche 911 at a FRACTION of the price.   And when we talk about aftermarket tuning for Corvettes for the SAME amount of money spent on a Corvette modifying it as one would buy a brand new 911, the Corvette WILL spank the 911's a$$.  But factory to factory, the 911 is still THE sports car to beat.  No doubt! 

Edited March 18, 2023 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

On 3/16/2023 at 8:42 PM, David said:

OUCH and the Ford recalls keep coming. This time, a retainer bolt on the inside of the steering box fails and causes the steering box to lock up. All 2023 Broncos are on a do not deliver, do not drive list awaiting replacement parts.

Ford Issues 2023 Bronco ‘Do Not Deliver-Do Not Drive’ Order (msn.com)

"The press was way too harsh on domestics". (paraphrased but you get the gist)

 

Repeated BS like the above issue is why. I have been liking the designs (and powertrain options) coming from Ford lately but they are having serious teething issues that should not be occurring in this day and age, if you ask me. 100+ years in the business (literally invented the process of mass production of automobiles, for christ sake) and yet they are looking like the Ford of the 1970s, as far as build quality and reliability issues are concerned right now. It's not all bad for them but it has certainly not looked good for them the last few years. Sugarcoat it all you want. Say the press is being too hard on them (duh, it's America and they talk more about American companies here, good and bad press) but don't overlook the actual facts while doing it.

[oldshurst442]

37 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

"The press was way too harsh on domestics". (paraphrased but you get the gist)

 

Repeated BS like the above issue is why. I have been liking the designs (and powertrain options) coming from Ford lately but they are having serious teething issues that should not be occurring in this day and age, if you ask me. 100+ years in the business (literally invented the process of mass production of automobiles, for christ sake) and yet they are looking like the Ford of the 1970s, as far as build quality and reliability issues are concerned right now. It's not all bad for them but it has certainly not looked good for them the last few years. Sugarcoat it all you want. Say the press is being too hard on them (duh, it's America and they talk more about American companies here, good and bad press) but don't overlook the actual facts while doing it.

Sure...

American press should be harsh on American companies fudging up.  

But...

1. European press was and continues to be harsh on American cars now and then.

2. American press was and STILL is not harsh on EUROPEAN and Asian cars when those are fudged up.

3. European and Asian press was and STILL not harsh on European and Asian cars when those are fudged up.

 

But when European and Asian cars are on par with the shytyness of American cars during the malaise era Id expect the same amount of harshness to go around IN THE PRESS and I CERTAINLY would expect the blowback from the folk to be the same as well.

As with the Hyundai and Kia rant...

I would have LOVED to hear folk that bought V6 Hondas, any phoquing Honda with a V6 from the 1990s until today, and in the 1990s, it didnt even have to be a V6,  and when the transmission failed...I would have LOVED to hear Americans SWEAR off Hondas 4 EV-R.  

When phoquing Hyundai was selling shyte, like literal shyte in the 1980s

into the 1990s

 and quite honestly...well into the 2010s..and as it seems...today too

I wanna know how in the HELL is Hyundai STILL selling cars in North America when the PRESS and the American people HOLD shyttyness to HIGH PHOQUING STANDARDS like they DO with General Motors, Ford and phoquing Chrysler???!!!

 

When...TOYOTA pulled the ULTIMATE arrogant manoeuvre, more than GM and Ford and Chrysler has EVER done with the oil sludge thing of Camrys and certain Lexuses  in the 1990s and blamed that problem unto the consumer...  the American press lightly covered THAT problem.  And there was NO my brother's father's sister's roomate had a sludgy Camry and Toyota REFUSED to fix it so now I will NEVER EVER buy a Toyota EVER again...    Let us remind ourselves that the Camry in the 1990s was starting to become America's best selling car and continued to BE for the next 3 decades after that.  And Toyotas problems were NOT limited to that...Toyota snowballed with all kinds of defects and recalls to become at that time the car maker with the MOST recalls of all time.  Yet NOT one SOB in the press or civilian buying Toyotas EVER whispered a HINT of discontent.  

We all know that German cars suck after the warranty is gone...since the dawn of time.  Prehistory...    Where are the phoquing pitchforks like we have pitchforked to death the Detroit Big 3?

Catch my drift? 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

2. American press was and STILL is not harsh on EUROPEAN and Asian cars when those are fudged up.

Then maybe you are only looking at certain stories because I’ve seen plenty of flak directed at the Koreans over the last few years and the Germans (see diesel gate). Toyota caught plenty of flak for their crap too lest we forget the floor mat/UA issues 15 years ago. 
 

And company “arrogance” aside (what company hasn’t blamed customers first, I’ll wait lol), they addressed those issues in 2002, not even a year after a bulk of the reported issues. 
https://www.autosafety.org/toyota-broadens-sludge-repair-program/

Just saying, sometimes we see only what we want to see and I’m just going to leave it at that. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

20 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Then maybe you are only looking at certain stories because I’ve seen plenty of flak directed at the Koreans over the last few years and the Germans (see diesel gate). Toyota caught plenty of flak for their crap too lest we forget the floor mat/UA issues 15 years ago. 
 

Just saying, sometimes we see only what we want to see and I’m just going to leave it at that. 

 

Nah...

All the 'flak' that you talk about was and is not NEARLY as intense as the pitchforking the Detroit 3 got.

There was even plenty of excuse filled deflections.  ESPECIALLY with Toyota's unintended acceleration floor mat issues WITH the Amerian press AND the American Toyota sheeple.  

With diesel gate... at the same time with Hyundai/KIA...   I wanna know HOW in the HELL does VAG STILL have enough followers in the US to continue doing business here.

Remember this commercial?

 

SUPERBOWL, brotha.  it aired during the freakin' Superbowl...

Aside from some fines...where was the FRAUD false advert lawsuits?

Where was the American "we got duped" backlash?   This is waaaaay before youtube and spotify and twitter  misinformation podcasts for the misinformation lies to become a part of American culture.  This media format hadnt been invented yet.  News outlets in the US were more or less truthful.   So...where was all this pitchforking when GM STILL gets grilled for the phoquing Cimarron half a phoquing decade later?  

 There was and STILL is plenty of American public STILL not giving GM or Ford the time of day...

Cadillac introduces the ATS and IMMEDIATELY American media makes us remember the aforementioned Cimarron.  

Brand new EV Hyundai's have problems but not one American news site mentions the horrific Pony... 

Naw...   the INTENSITY of Detroit 3 hatred IN the US has NO parallel.  The foreign makes in North America basically get a free pass. 

 

Its blatantly obvious.  And you know it... 

Edited March 18, 2023 by oldshurst442

[David]

@surreal1272 You both have valid points and we do find crap against all auto makers. Yet if you focus on the big Media, it would appear that they attack American auto companies far more than Asian or European. It also does not help that some of the biggest conservative companies have executives that love their European autos over anything American and yet they push the maga flag while still doing the bulk of their business out of this country for jobs. I honestly wish all big media would push home the lies that clean diesel of Europe pushed for so long before they were all found criminal. Clearly not enough being done as even CR still pushes a heavy Asian agenda on their best autos when that is a lie too. At this point, if GM can truly beat Tesla and keep the quality going up, then the best thing ever is to make society eat mud over the deceptive nature of all this.

[surreal1272]

4 minutes ago, David said:

Media, it would appear that they attack American auto companies far more than Asian or European.

And there are two really good reasons for that. 
 

1. Volume of cars involved. Far more domestics than European cars here. 
 

2. Frequency. If there are five separate problems from one company (Ford, for example) and only two from another in the same time period (Toyota, for example), then there are going to be more reports on them. 
 

Those are my two main points behind my “assessment” and there is data to back that up. 

[David]

18 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

And there are two really good reasons for that. 
 

1. Volume of cars involved. Far more domestics than European cars here. 
 

2. Frequency. If there are five separate problems from one company (Ford, for example) and only two from another in the same time period (Toyota, for example), then there are going to be more reports on them. 
 

Those are my two main points behind my “assessment” and there is data to back that up. 

While I TOTALLY agree with the more recalls by one vendor over another gets the most news. That seems to not be the case in the Auto Industry.

These car manufacturers issued the most recalls in 2022 - Autoblog

• Ford: 67 recalls (8,636,265 vehicles)
• Volkswagen Group: 45 recalls (1,040,885 vehicles)
• FCA/Stellantis: 38 recalls (3,041,431 vehicles)
• Mercedes-Benz: 33 recalls (969,993 vehicles)
• General Motors: 32 recalls (3,371,302 vehicles)
• Kia: 24 recalls (1,458,962 vehicles)
• Hyundai: 22 recalls (1,452,101 vehicles)
• Tesla: 20 recalls (3,769,581 vehicles)
• BMW: 19 recalls (1,000,455 vehicles)
• Nissan: 15 recalls (1,568,385 vehicles)

Based on this, yes Ford has earned the news, but where is the VW and MB news? Heard very little about their recalls.

[David]

Some pretty cool patents being filed by GM.

GM Files Patent For LiDAR System (gmauthority.com)

While cool tech, not sure I am interested in this type.

GM Files Patent For Remote Autonomous Vehicle Towing (gmauthority.com)

Seems you can either have Performance or Off-Road Package but not both, seems both the GMC Hummer truck and SUV get a stabilizer bar underneath if performance is the focus, opt for the optional off-road package and you no longer get the stabilizer bar for the sake of better off-road handling.

Some GMC Hummer EVs Have This One Big Chassis Difference (gmauthority.com)

Here is something I believe @oldshurst442 @ccap41 will enjoy and even I have to say it makes the Cadillac sedan look amazing.

Cadillac CT5 Body Kit From Robot Craftsman Brings Aggression (gmauthority.com)

Have to say the images GM Authority caught of the mid year refresh of the Cadillac CT5 is nice, love the new headlights.

[David]

Seems 7-Eleven is planning big changes. Globally 7-Eleven is wanting to be the premier stopping point for EV charging and has rolled out their 7Charge EV charging network.

Thursday, March 16, 2023 PR: 7‑Eleven, Inc. Launches New Electric Vehicle Charging Network, 7Charge (7-eleven.com)

Just download the app for Apple or Android from the proper stores and setup your 7Charge account.

7-Charge | 7-Eleven

7Charge is growing in the U.S. and will start expanding internationally with Canada this year as well as other markets.

7Eleven has stated that all 7Eleven stores and their sister stores from Speedway and Stripes are included in the EV 7Charge system.

According to the press release when 7Eleven bought Speedway in 2021, 7Eleven has a world wide chain of 77,000 stores in 16 countries with a customer loyalty program with more than 40 Million members. North America has 14,000 stores with a presence in 47 of the top 50 most populated metro areas.

7-Eleven, Inc. Completes Acquisition of 3,800 Speedway Stores (prnewswire.com)

[David]

Intersting read on a Tesla fire that is not battery related but would appear to be from the work of the auto shop that rebuilt the Tesla after an accident.

Tesla Model 3 Bursts Into Flames From Inside While Driving On The Road | Carscoops

Does make one wonder about how having multiple wires under the carpet and feet of the occupants is not the best engineering. 

I would say the legacy auto makers will have a better time of routing electrical wiring for better built EVs.

Tesla Model 3 Bursts Into Flames From Inside While Driving On The Road | Carscoops

[David]

Cool, EVs make up 7% market share in January 2023 compared to 5% in January 2022.

https://insideevs.com/news/657660/us-electric-car-sales-january2023/

[David]

@Drew Dowdell @Robert Hall @oldshurst442 @ccap41 @surreal1272 @trinacriabob @riviera74
 

Canoo is finally building and selling their LifeStyle auto. What do you all think?

 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, David said:

@Drew Dowdell @Robert Hall @oldshurst442 @ccap41 @surreal1272 @trinacriabob @riviera74
 

Canoo is finally building and selling their LifeStyle auto. What do you all think?

 

A hotel shuttle curiosity at best. It's about as "lifestyle vehicle" as a Chevy Lumina APV with about 1/4 of the personality.

[David]

52 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

A hotel shuttle curiosity at best. It's about as "lifestyle vehicle" as a Chevy Lumina APV with about 1/4 of the personality.

So you do not see people using the Canoo in a active lifestyle way then, such as camping, skiing, etc.?

Truck Life

Van life

I am amazed at how many GMC Safari AWD vans I see out and about and especially on the pass for skiing/Snowboarding.

Like how VW is marketing their lifestyle EV van.

I think there will be a segment that will want it for this. Right now, I think it is smart of them to sell first into the last mile delivery service as they should sell all they can produce.

[Drew Dowdell]

7 minutes ago, David said:

So you do not see people using the Canoo in a active lifestyle way then, such as camping, skiing, etc.?

Truck Life

Van life

I am amazed at how many GMC Safari AWD vans I see out and about and especially on the pass for skiing/Snowboarding.

Like how VW is marketing their lifestyle EV van.

I think there will be a segment that will want it for this. Right now, I think it is smart of them to sell first into the last mile delivery service as they should sell all they can produce.

Not in any appreciable numbers. About the same number as those who buy a new 4-Runner to off-road or camp in and actually do it.  The truck could be a useful parts delivery vehicle or a campus landscaping vehicle.  I don't see it as anything close to a mass market machine.  The people who want vanity off-roaders will buy something that looks more capable of going off-road even if they never actually do it.

[surreal1272]

I am on the fence with them. Love the van look (spent the first 13 years of my life traveling around in the same 1972 Chevy Sport10 van) but like Drew, I don't know how it succeeds beyond its obvious niche. Commercial use could be a good starter for getting the product out there and using that as a springboard to push it into the consumer level market. I defiantly dig the concept though. I am that weirdo lol.

[oldshurst442]

I like the steer-by-wire technology.  We have this tech with brakes and transmissions, why not steering???!!!   And leading up to street-view-glass.   Which I equally like. Like the guy said, it frees lots of space.  Of course GM had this idea 20 years ago with their Hy-Wire concept.   

Anything-By-Wire would be aircraft technology, so I appreciated the fact that the dude points that out.  

Like @surreal1272, I love the van look to it.  Like @Drew Dowdell and @surreal1272, I view the Canoo more as a work and commercial van than a lifestyle thing. 

What is this "lifestyle" terminology thing anyway?

Its just a marketing buzz word.  Im not skeptical about the folk that do 'lifestyle' things like skiing or hiking, but Im very skeptical about needing a special 'lifestyle' vehicle to partake in said lifestyle lifestyles.  

A Canoo or Rivian arent anything special for marketers using this term 'lifestyle' to stick it as a label for their vehicle to sell.

This Volvo done the lifestyle thing without the moniker and NOBODY thinks its that special...

Other than its a Volvo station wagon and 1970s teachers and liberals drove them because they were also safe cars. The safest in fact.

These westcoaster Californian surfers also had their choice of vehicle for their lifestyle choice too...

 

 

Basically what Im saying is that you dont need a marketing bullshyter to sell you a moniker for your choice of vehicle to enjoy and live your lifestyle livin' and doin'

But if a Canoo can lifetsyle your lifestyle, then go ahead and drive Canoo or Rivian or Aztek...

All in all though.  I like the Canoo in all its forms.  

Edited March 19, 2023 by oldshurst442

[David]

@oldshurst442 It is amazing how marketing grabs onto a term meant to represent ones lifestyle choices of what they do and then focuses on it for an auto.

I have to say I like this TopGear response to Lifestyle vehicles.

Here are nine alternatives to ‘lifestyle vehicles’ | Top Gear

[oldshurst442]

On 3/18/2023 at 3:50 PM, David said:

Some pretty cool patents being filed by GM.

GM Files Patent For LiDAR System (gmauthority.com)

While cool tech, not sure I am interested in this type.

GM Files Patent For Remote Autonomous Vehicle Towing (gmauthority.com)

Seems you can either have Performance or Off-Road Package but not both, seems both the GMC Hummer truck and SUV get a stabilizer bar underneath if performance is the focus, opt for the optional off-road package and you no longer get the stabilizer bar for the sake of better off-road handling.

Some GMC Hummer EVs Have This One Big Chassis Difference (gmauthority.com)

Here is something I believe @oldshurst442 @ccap41 will enjoy and even I have to say it makes the Cadillac sedan look amazing.

Cadillac CT5 Body Kit From Robot Craftsman Brings Aggression (gmauthority.com)

Have to say the images GM Authority caught of the mid year refresh of the Cadillac CT5 is nice, love the new headlights.

 

I would have loved it more if I was in my 20s and the calender would be sayin' 1993 instead of 2023. 

I got Camaro RK Sport vibes when I looked at that Cadillac

I was lusting after this body kit and look with the blacked out headlights and backlights,  mags and wing for the Camaro back in the day.  

Just like any other kind of boyracer styling. 

 

I guess not so much now.  I prefer a clean CT5 Blackwing.  

 

I hopelessly still love that Camaro though!!!  

[David]

I know some will hate to see this, but the change is on as many top hot rodders are now converting classic autos to EVs.

Meet some of the 'hot rodders' making classic gas-powered cars run on electric motors and batteries — see their coolest conversions (msn.com)

[David]

Seems a Price war is blooming in China and could come here.

Ford and GM follow Tesla's lead and wade into China price war by offering big discounts to boost sales, report says (msn.com)

[Drew Dowdell]

15 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

What is this "lifestyle" terminology thing anyway?

Its just a marketing buzz word.  Im not skeptical about the folk that do 'lifestyle' things like skiing or hiking, but Im very skeptical about needing a special 'lifestyle' vehicle to partake in said lifestyle lifestyles. 

It's for people who buy an REI subscription, puffy jacket, and leave their ski rack on the roof of their FWD CVT Pathfinder year-round, even though they only "go to the cabin" twice a year.

Oversized, front-wheel drive luxury coupes can be "lifestyle vehicles" too.

11 hours ago, David said:

Seems a Price war is blooming in China and could come here.

Ford and GM follow Tesla's lead and wade into China price war by offering big discounts to boost sales, report says (msn.com)

China's economy is in deep doo doo and could potentially exacerbate the emerging banking crisis here.  There is the potential even that inaction here could push China over a cliff and create a causality loop.

[oldshurst442]

43 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's for people who buy an REI subscription, puffy jacket, and leave their ski rack on the roof of their FWD CVT Pathfinder year-round, even though they only "go to the cabin" twice a year.

Let me add a couple as well:

Skiiers who leave their ski ticket tags on their jacket  for years on end. Most of these guys go skiing twice a year, maybe. Have a minimum of 10 tickets on their jacket zipper. Their oldest tag dating back at least 8 years.

Bicycle bikers biking with the most expensive bicycle money can buy,  biking with full biker regalia with aerodynamic helmets and skin tight lycra pants and 2-3-4 water bottles stuck on their 15 000 dollar bike,  biking in the middle of the road, dont matter if its a grand boulevard or a one lane suburban road refusing to bike on the side to let car traffic go through all in the while peddling so phoquing slow that a 5 year old on his Huffy with training wheels could pass him/her.  

[David]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's for people who buy an REI subscription, puffy jacket, and leave their ski rack on the roof of their FWD CVT Pathfinder year-round, even though they only "go to the cabin" twice a year.

Oversized, front-wheel drive luxury coupes can be "lifestyle vehicles" too.

China's economy is in deep doo doo and could potentially exacerbate the emerging banking crisis here.  There is the potential even that inaction here could push China over a cliff and create a causality loop.

Very cool advertisement, never seen it before, reminds me of that one James Bond movie where he drives up into some swiss alps ski area. Love the side profile of this car, that is a sexy auto.

Imagine if that was an EV, how big that Frunk would be.  

@oldshurst442 Totally agree with you, it is stupid to see people with ski tags on their jacket especially considering that most ski resorts have not had paper tags in over a decade. At least here in the PNW, I see these tags and that just tells me this person rarely skis as they have used RFID cards that you leave in the special pass pouch.

Ski resorts next year here are all moving to their phone apps so you just leave your phone where ever on you and it will be read automatically so you can just jump in line and not get scanned. Those that do not have a smartphone will still be able to get an RFID day pass, but again this goes in a pocket on your ski jacket for scanning. 

Technology has so moved us to new ways of being Lifestyle without showing others what that lifestyle is.

The Bike thing is exacerbating as I see so many luxury auto's with bike racks on the back folded up trying to be kept out of the way but not really being used and instead causing damage as the idiot drivers who bike 1 or 2 times a year try to say "Look at me, I am a road cyclist or Mountain bike Cyclist when it is winter." Idiots

I will say that a real Lifestyle believer is one who has various hobbies, might even shop at REI and have the membership (Yup I do), has a whole family that goes up weekly, but when we come down, we take off the ski/snowboard rack and put it away. Yes, we drive AWD vehicles, but you could not tell what our sport interest are as we are not out to show off, but are living that lifestyle that makes us happy.

Damn, that is a Sexy Toronado. I so could enjoy a car like that with AWD.

[Drew Dowdell]

10 minutes ago, David said:

I will say that a real Lifestyle believer is one who has various hobbies, might even shop at REI and have the membership (Yup I do), has a whole family that goes up weekly, but when we come down, we take off the ski/snowboard rack and put it away.

There is a huge, Grand Canyon sized divide, between marketing to people who think they want a "lifestyle vehicle" and people who actually do that stuff.  Most of these lifestyle vehicles are marketed to suburban and city dwellers who's biggest lifestyle outdoors is walking a groomed rail-trail for a mile or two on Saturdays with their $10 coffee in hand before going to brunch at 10:30 downtown.

They don't need a Land Rover Defender to do that, but Land Rover markets to them that they do.  It is a vanity purchase, nothing more.

 

[David]

31 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There is a huge, Grand Canyon sized divide, between marketing to people who think they want a "lifestyle vehicle" and people who actually do that stuff.  Most of these lifestyle vehicles are marketed to suburban and city dwellers who's biggest lifestyle outdoors is walking a groomed rail-trail for a mile or two on Saturdays with their $10 coffee in hand before going to brunch at 10:30 downtown.

They don't need a Land Rover Defender to do that, but Land Rover markets to them that they do.  It is a vanity purchase, nothing more.

 

True Dat!  It is a marketing term used to focus on the city to suburban person more than those actually living the lifestyle.

Course where I live is considered Suburban, but most of my neighbors are gone on the weekends out in the mountains. We hate the city, but like our local mall here and REI on our way to the mountains that are less than an hour drive away for the day.

[Robert Hall]

On 3/17/2023 at 12:49 PM, David said:

It dawned on me that the Stealth Mode can help the single guys or gals sneak away from a 1 night stand if they so choose. 😆

Saw this write up on the SVB bank failure and have to say it is very illuminating.
 

Silicon Valley Bank

 

It’s hard to miss the news this week that sparked major disruptions in the banking industry. A sequence of events rapidly unfolded, resulting in the second largest bank failure in US history last week. Subsequent reports from other banks experiencing problems followed. The trigger started with an increased volume of withdrawals from venture-backed start-ups. This segment has struggled to obtain incremental investments in this conservative fiscal environment, so drawing more funds without incremental investments caused a strain on the banking reserves. Bad decisions on long-dated bond investments by Silicon Valley Bank (SVB) that resulted in a $1.8 billion loss inflated the problem. Management of SVB failed to hold enough liquidity to meet the increasing demands. SVC’s announcement that they were looking to raise more capital via additional share sales to cover their shortfall on March 8^th was quickly amplified on social media and caused a rapid bank run by customers.

 The whole collapse took a mere 48 hours to unfold.

 The SVB financial concentration on technology companies did not just affect small, early-stage start-ups. Some of the well-established technology companies affected included Roku, Etsy, and Cloudian. Here’s a more complete list that spans the US, Europe, and Asia. The impact felt by customers, employees, and other businesses serving the businesses affected by this collapse affects secondary and tertiary levels.

 Unlike the 2008 financial collapse triggered by over-leveraged lending, this event was not due to the fundamental integrity of customers, but rather to the fact that management failed to satisfy its fiduciary responsibility to preserve liquidity. More fuel was added to the fire by increasing interest rates, decreased VC investments, and fewer acquisition exits – a combination predictable in this more conservative fiscal phase we’re now in.

 In Europe, HSBC took over the U.K. division of SVB over the weekend. Accepting all of their assets and liabilities in exchange for £1, HSBC came to rescue of many customers and businesses worried about their livelihoods. 451 Research explains:

 The deal will considerably boost HSBC's exposure to startups and high-growth companies — a segment of the market that risk-averse incumbent banks in the U.K. have typically shied away from. As of March 10, SVB (U.K.) had loans of £5.5 billion and deposits of in the region of £6.7 billion, and about 3,300 clients. SVB (U.K.) turned a pre-tax profit of £88 million in the 2022 financial year. Although SVB (U.K.) does not make its fintech client list public, previous press releases suggest that it has lent money to the likes of well-known payments and remittance company Wise PLC (formerly TransferWise) and Liberis, a U.K.-based embedded finance specialist.

 Although HSBC's appearance as a white knight came as a surprise to many, the multinational bank has been bolstering its U.K. small and medium-sized business lending proposition in recent years, which suggests that the deal is strategic as well as opportunistic. HSBC launched its digital small-business banking product, Kinetic, in 2021, and its customer base stood at 53,000 as of year-end 2022. It also launched a global SMB  platform, Business Go, whose signups totaled 95,000 at the end of 2022.

 There’s still a lot more to come as the situation continues to unfold. 451 Research reminded its readers this week that it will take years for technology deal making and trust to recover. As other banking institutions come into the mix, the challenges will extend well beyond the technology industry. Here’s a write up from Fidelity if you have interest in their point of view.

I’ve been watching this closely.  My employer (Alkami Technology) is on that list linked above.  My CEO sent a Slack announcement about it and that it would not affect payroll (got paid on the 15th).   Strange days in tech right now.  

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, David said:

Very cool advertisement, never seen it before, reminds me of that one James Bond movie where he drives up into some swiss alps ski area. Love the side profile of this car, that is a sexy auto.

 

1 hour ago, David said:

Damn, that is a Sexy Toronado. I so could enjoy a car like that with AWD.

What's funny is that I can fit my skis transversely in the trunk of my Toronado.  Those look like some old-style long jump skis in the ad.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

I’ve been watching this closely.  My employer (Alkami Technology) is on that list linked above.  My CEO sent a Slack announcement about it and that it would not affect payroll (got paid on the 15th).   Strange days in tech right now.  

I've never understood larger companies (several million in revenue a year at least) that put everything in a single bank.  I work for a small municipality and we've got bank accounts out the wazoo.

[Robert Hall]

My company is publicly traded, looks like they had a small percentage of their cash reserves in SVB, and some 'sweep' accounts (not quite sure what that entails).   But they have their investments diversified across several banks is my understanding. 

[David]

55 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 

What's funny is that I can fit my skis transversely in the trunk of my Toronado.  Those look like some old-style long jump skis in the ad.

So true, course for us tall guys we ski on 239's nothing would fit in the trunk, but they do look more like cross country skis.

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

My company is publicly traded, looks like they had a small percentage of their cash reserves in SVB, and some 'sweep' accounts (not quite sure what that entails).   But they have their investments diversified across several banks is my understanding. 

 

11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I've never understood larger companies (several million in revenue a year at least) that put everything in a single bank.  I work for a small municipality and we've got bank accounts out the wazoo.

I can say that Dell clearly has multiple banks as it seems depending on which division you have you get paid out of that bank and of course our pay structure depending on if you are an Engineer, Marketing, Sales, Support, etc. is all different too. Even the Company Yearly Bonus based on performance comes out of another bank compared to my regular pay.

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

My company is publicly traded, looks like they had a small percentage of their cash reserves in SVB, and some 'sweep' accounts (not quite sure what that entails).   But they have their investments diversified across several banks is my understanding. 

Sweep is one of two things, the account is emptied out overnight into a treasury account to earn interest at a higher rate and then put back first thing in the morning. Not usually available to us peons, but for some reason one of my credit unions offers this on an account I have there.

Or it is for sales transactions: Think a retail shop that takes in daily sales. It fills up to a specific amount, and then anything excess is swept into other accounts.  This is common in chain stores, so each store has an account but the profits get funneled off to Corporate.

[David]

Interesting review. Cannot complain about their negative being the only interior color is black or black and grey. Seems it the Georgia factory is where the GV70 EV is produced. Sadly only a 236 mile range.

Genesis Electrified GV70 first drive review: a killer high-end EV with one flaw (msn.com)

[David]

Todays Dodge Last Call is going on now.

 

[oldshurst442]

@David

The first 8 minutes explains what the Porsche 911 GT3 RS is all about.  The first 8 minutes should give you an idea how much engineering goes into the RS model over and beyond not only over the regular GT3, but ANY road legal track ready sports car.   When somebody says the Corvette E-Ray is better than the Porsche 911, well...if you do pay attention to what and how the 911 GT3 RS is, then you'll realize quite quickly that the journalism is, like I said, lazy...  

On a side note, the guy said that the GT3 RS made a Nurburgring time of 6 minutes 49 seconds.  

The C8 Z06's time at the Nurburgring has not been set just yet. A set back on the course happened last year.  BMW and Tesla crashed and their cars.   Chevy is said to be back though.  It is also said that the time for the C8 Z06 will BE under 7 minutes  100%.   Some say it will be around the 6 minute 50 second mark.   

Not too bad either way...

1.  The Porsche 911 lives on the Nurburgring.  It is its home playground.  Porsche spends and ENORMOUS amount of time and money to set records there.  

2.  The C7 Z06 didnt set an official time there either because of set backs on the track involving other cars and accidents.  Yeah...the C8 too...   But, the Corvette does not live there and the Corvette also has other playgrounds that it needs to play in.  Like drag strips.  

3.  Corvette is a jack of all trades sports car. The 911 is a precision machine and the Nurburgring is where it operates.  The Corvette operates at all kinds of racing digs.   Drag racing, street light to street light and at the Nurburgring.  For the C8 Z06 to get close to the 911 GT3 RS's time at the Nurburgring in its heavy GT luxury body is a testament of how good the Corvette engineers really are.  But it still remains that the GT3 RS is still a scalpel.  The E-Ray might be a great Corvette, but it all depends of what kind of comparison we want and what kind of 911 we want to talk about.  Anyway...enjoy Jay Lenos garage.   This episode is a great way to understand what the GT3 RS is without any fanboyism and without any positive or negative bias.  The narrative is as truthful as it could be.  

 

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

then you'll realize quite quickly that the journalism is, like I said, lazy...  

The word you are looking for here is “subjective”, not “lazy” but I guess we all pick strange hills to die on. Just skip the fact these “lazy” writers have far more exposure and wheel time with these cars than you or me. Dismiss it as “lazy” all you want but it is the exact opposite of lazy. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by surreal1272

[David]

10 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

@David

The first 8 minutes explains what the Porsche 911 GT3 RS is all about.  The first 8 minutes should give you an idea how much engineering goes into the RS model over and beyond not only over the regular GT3, but ANY road legal track ready sports car.   When somebody says the Corvette E-Ray is better than the Porsche 911, well...if you do pay attention to what and how the 911 GT3 RS is, then you'll realize quite quickly that the journalism is, like I said, lazy...  

On a side note, the guy said that the GT3 RS made a Nurburgring time of 6 minutes 49 seconds.  

The C8 Z06's time at the Nurburgring has not been set just yet. A set back on the course happened last year.  BMW and Tesla crashed and their cars.   Chevy is said to be back though.  It is also said that the time for the C8 Z06 will BE under 7 minutes  100%.   Some say it will be around the 6 minute 50 second mark.   

Not too bad either way...

1.  The Porsche 911 lives on the Nurburgring.  It is its home playground.  Porsche spends and ENORMOUS amount of time and money to set records there.  

2.  The C7 Z06 didnt set an official time there either because of set backs on the track involving other cars and accidents.  Yeah...the C8 too...   But, the Corvette does not live there and the Corvette also has other playgrounds that it needs to play in.  Like drag strips.  

3.  Corvette is a jack of all trades sports car. The 911 is a precision machine and the Nurburgring is where it operates.  The Corvette operates at all kinds of racing digs.   Drag racing, street light to street light and at the Nurburgring.  For the C8 Z06 to get close to the 911 GT3 RS's time at the Nurburgring in its heavy GT luxury body is a testament of how good the Corvette engineers really are.  But it still remains that the GT3 RS is still a scalpel.  The E-Ray might be a great Corvette, but it all depends of what kind of comparison we want and what kind of 911 we want to talk about.  Anyway...enjoy Jay Lenos garage.   This episode is a great way to understand what the GT3 RS is without any fanboyism and without any positive or negative bias.  The narrative is as truthful as it could be.  

 

As always Old's appreciate your viewpoint. I would not call it Lazy as so much as ones perspective on the auto's. Or as @surreal1272 said one persons subjective viewpoint.

In watching the video, I get the extensive focus on the RS which to me proves as you pointed out just how great a job Corvette Engineering did to get the E-Ray to be so close to the RS and yet pretty much trump the rest of the 911 lineup.

We know that having a benchmark is important and as such, have a bigger performance auto equal or beat the 911 is great. 

I have no doubt that when GM does benchmark the C8 on the German race course it will set records.

Records is the key piece as we always find companies leapfrogging the competition to only then loose the lead again the following year for some reason or another.

[oldshurst442]

8 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

The word you are looking for here is “subjective”, not “lazy”

Nah...  its lazy journalism.

5 hours ago, David said:

I would not call it Lazy as so much as ones perspective on the auto's

Nah...its lazy.

 

When the writer switches between 911 trims to determine the E-Ray to be better...   

Better in what?

There are many 911 flavours and the ONE flavour that the Vette exists in...a hybrid, the 911 doesnt have one.  

Going back and forth of one Vette trim to take on a plethora of 911 trims cherry picking what the E-Ray does better is exactly THAT.  LAZY.

Its not subjective.  Its biased.  Aaaaaand...LAZY. 

When I say that automotive journalism should lax it against the hatred for American automobile, I dont mean blind faith in them because this journalism is the exact reverse of what I bitch about hatin' on American cars.   We dont have to praise OUR cars by putting down foreign ones...   And this article, although it doesnt put down a 911, it uses LAZY metrics to dawn the Vette E-Ray the winner.  The winner of what? That the E-Ray is better?   Better in what?   A biased dumb metric based on reasoning JUST for the Vette to win?

There was explaining  of what the 911 is all about.  

People cross shopping the Vette and the 911 wouldnt buy the Vette or the 911 on NONE of this journalist's metrics.  These metrics are just the journalists own personal views.

Journalism is NOT about providing PERSONAL whims into play.  THAT is just easy and lazy.

Journalism provides FACTS.  Not facts presented in a way to JUSTIFY a side.  THAT is what that article does...

Its OK...   My view is what we say...subjective, maybe?

9 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

but I guess we all pick strange hills to die on.

You got that right. 

9 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

have far more exposure and wheel time with these cars than you or me.

That journalist used his feelings to write about and therefore I could use mine as well to write my own journalistic point of view....   That journalist used nothing of fact to determine if the E-Ray is better.  Just what he/she thinks is better.      And I dont agree with that assessment.  And Im allowed to.  And I countered. And I wanted to show @David that wait a minute...the E-Rayis good.  Excellent even.  But...because the 911 is more expensive and the Vette is less expensive and does 90% of what the 911 does, THAT metric ALONE does NOT make the Vette to be a better choice.  Its just in one metric.   And the fact that the writer took SEVERAL 911s to prove that the E_Ray is better...just proves that the 911 is just a vehicle that has MANY trims that are lazer focused.  The Vette is more of a Jack-Of-All-Trades sports car.   NEITHER method is neither superior or inferior.   

But yeah...  

 

 

[surreal1272]

53 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Nah...  its lazy journalism.

Nah. It's subjective, just like your subjective observation of it. It is really is that simple but if making a mountain out of molehill is the way you want to go, then knock yourself out. However, it seems like you are just focusing on the one bullet points copy and pasted by David instead of the article itself, which provides much better context. Again, though, maybe making mountains is where you would prefer to do here. In that case, I am tipping myself on out of it. Nothing personal. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by surreal1272