Random Thoughts Thread

[G. David Felt]

On 10/27/2023 at 3:44 PM, trinacriabob said:

The ideal weather across an ideal year:

- 3 months of summer

- 1 month of winter

- 1 month of spring

- 7 months of autumn (and peak color)

Here we are opposite, my perfect year:

1 month of spring

2 months of summer - Gotta keep the wife happy.

1 month of Fall

8 months of Winter - Ski season baby!!!!!!

Have to say I am excited by this.

BP Buying $100M Worth of Tesla EV Chargers: What's the Big Deal? - CNET

[G. David Felt]

Found the Press release:

bp boosts EV charging network with $100 million order of Tesla ultra-fast chargers | News and insights | Home

• Deal with bp pulse marks first time Tesla’s ultra-fast chargers will be purchased for deployment on an independent EV charging network.
• Agreement forms part of bp’s plans to invest up to $1 billion in EV charging across the US by 2030.
• As early as 2024, Tesla chargers will be installed across the bp pulse network, including at key bp, Amoco, ampm; and Thorntons-branded sites, TravelCenters of America locations and at bp pulse’s large-scale Gigahub™ charging sites, near airports and in major metropolitan areas across the US.

[trinacriabob]

Good morning

* there are numerous memes with this sassy lady! *

[Robert Hall]

On 10/27/2023 at 6:44 PM, trinacriabob said:

The ideal weather across an ideal year:

- 3 months of summer

- 1 month of winter

- 1 month of spring

- 7 months of autumn (and peak color)

My ideal would be 4 months of summer (no highs over 80, low humidity), 4 months of autumn, 2 months of spring, 2 months of winter (no lows under 40). 

[riviera74]

9 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

My ideal would be 4 months of summer (no highs over 80, low humidity), 4 months of autumn, 2 months of spring, 2 months of winter (no lows under 40). 

Good luck finding that anywhere in NA.  You either get mild winters and brutal summers OR you get the reverse.

[G. David Felt]

9 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

My ideal would be 4 months of summer (no highs over 80, low humidity), 4 months of autumn, 2 months of spring, 2 months of winter (no lows under 40). 

Sounds like the PNW as you have to go to the mountains to find snow usually.  If we get two weeks a year of below freezing temps around greater Seattle that is a longer than normal winter.

[Robert Hall]

23 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Good luck finding that anywhere in NA.  You either get mild winters and brutal summers OR you get the reverse.

I know.  The nicest year round climate I’ve seen is San Diego. 

[trinacriabob]

3 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Good luck finding that anywhere in NA.  You either get mild winters and brutal summers OR you get the reverse.

Economically stated, as is usually the case. 

With the exception of a Mediterranean climate in many parts of Calif., and for which there is a very steep "sunshine tax" for the roof over one's head, what you say is true.

[trinacriabob]

22 hours ago, David said:

Here we are opposite, my perfect year:

1 month of spring

2 months of summer - Gotta keep the wife happy.

1 month of Fall

8 months of Winter - Ski season baby!!!!!!

We could theoretically arrive at a compromise.  With your ski areas being at much higher altitudes than the Puget Sound B/basin, what I was offering would still get you more months of skiing during that much extended autumn.

[A Horse With No Name]

On 10/27/2023 at 7:29 PM, oldshurst442 said:

I agree.

BTW

What is Baltazar doing these days?

I know Ive read a post of yours not so long ago that you talk to Baltazar from time to time.  Not often I know.  

But I do wanna know how he is dong and if he will evah come back?   I miss him.  

I don't think he ever will. He seems fixated on vintage Buicks, not sure modern cars have much appeal to him. 

 

[Robert Hall]

38 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I don't think he ever will. He seems fixated on vintage Buicks, not sure modern cars have much appeal to him. 

I wonder if he will ever finish his '59 Buick..would love to see pics of it when finished.   

I like the idea of a vintage Buick..I wouldn't mind having a '80s Regal Grand National or T-Type or early 80s RWD C-body Electra. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Robert Hall

[trinacriabob]

3 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I don't think he ever will. He seems fixated on vintage Buicks, not sure modern cars have much appeal to him. 

He seems to really like older B-O-P vehicles and he also seems to have a long association with Pontiac products going up through his family tree.

He filled the shoes of the resident curmudgeon and I mean that in a nice (humorous) way.

Since I've been called pedantic a time or two, and people think it's weird that I remember so many details about stupid $h!+, I'm guessing I fill the shoes of the resident pedant.

[A Horse With No Name]

4 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

I wonder if he will ever finish his '59 Buick..would love to see pics of it when finished.   

I like the idea of a vintage Buick..I wouldn't mind having a '80s Regal Grand National or T-Type or early 80s RWD C-body Electra. 

I love the idea of a 68-72 midsized Buick. 

 

 

 

[G. David Felt]

11 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I love the idea of a 68-72 midsized Buick. 

 

Would love this car built with todays quality of a CT Blackwing and an AWD electric powertrain.

[A Horse With No Name]

23 minutes ago, David said:

Would love this car built with todays quality of a CT Blackwing and an AWD electric powertrain.

That would be awesome. 

 

They had way to much fun making this movie scene. 

 

 

[trinacriabob]

4 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I love the idea of a 68-72 midsized Buick. 

It's interesting how GM's intermediates seemingly "took turns" at being the most attractive in a select span of years, though it's all subjective.

Something happened in 1970 where this platform's cars changed for the better - their looks were cleaner relative to 1969 and 1968.

Taking '70 to '72 into account, I'd say the Pontiac Le Mans was too much and the Chevy Malibu was a little too vanilla.  The Cutlass Supreme coupe was fairly attractive, with the rear lamps getting worse (busier) each year moving along from 1970 to 1972, making the Buick Skylark and its clean lines - grille and headlamps, greenhouse, and taillamps and fascia - the nicest GM intermediate (IMHO) during that span of years.

Edited October 30, 2023 by trinacriabob

[regfootball]

On 10/23/2023 at 3:02 PM, David said:

Glad you have not had issues, Jasper and Fraser have been very clear on the motor issues and the updates they did to correct them.

JASPER Remanufactured Engines & Transmissions (jasperengines.com)

This independent review hits the big 4 main issues with the Pentastar 3.6L V6.

The 4 Most Common FCA Pentastar 3.6L Engine Problems (tuningpro.co)

Some of the most common issues with the Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Chrysler 3.6 Pentastar engine include:

• Cylinder head (2011-2013)
• Rocker arms
• Cooling system
• Oil pump

CHRYSLER 3.6L VVT MOPAR CRATE ENGINE | Fraser Engines and Transmissions (fraserengineco.com)

I get it that due to the wide use of this motor, it comes across as reliable, but with Stellantis high Lease rate, I suspect the full picture is not known of the shortcuts Stellantis has taken in the past for the PentaStar 3.6L V6.

At least it is good to be aware of the potential issue with this engine.

On the pacificaforums.com that I go due (due to driving a Pacifica) there are topics of the v6 having issues.  Hard to gauge how prolific it is really but yes, an item of concern.  It was reasoned by a few that the percentage is actually very small (but with vocal impacted owners) and it may be related to either maintenance and general care or believe it or not one theory I read was the stress of the autostart may be causing causing other stress in the powertrain itself.

My lease is ending soon on our 2nd Pacifica and I had fully intended to buy it as the lease end is far less than market value right now.  However, knowing there is a motor with potential issues clouds the issue a bit.  I suppose to include warranty would be most prudent thing.

I even just bought separate wheels for it recently that I intend to put snows on for this winter.  The same 20" OEM's as a matter of fact.  Crazy good deal.

Edited October 31, 2023 by regfootball

[trinacriabob]

1 minute ago, regfootball said:

On the pacificaforums.com that I go due (due to driving a Pacifica) there are topics of the v6 having issues.  Hard to gauge how prolific it is really but yes, an item of concern.

My lease is ending soon on our 2nd Pacifica and I had fully intended to buy it as the lease end is far less than market value right now.  However, knowing there is a motor with potential issues clouds the issue a bit.  I suppose to include warranty would be most prudent thing.

Like the Chrysler 300 and the Dodge Charger, all the nips and tucks helped the Pacifica become a much more likeable and handsome vehicle.  (That's independent of anything that plagues it mechanically and which appears to affect batches of cars.)  In that lighter dove gray - possibly with the pearl effect - it's an eye-catching ride .., and a practical one, too. 

And this is from someone who had a strong dislike for Mopar products until this last decade.

[G. David Felt]

15 minutes ago, regfootball said:

On the pacificaforums.com that I go due (due to driving a Pacifica) there are topics of the v6 having issues.  Hard to gauge how prolific it is really but yes, an item of concern.  It was reasoned by a few that the percentage is actually very small (but with vocal impacted owners) and it may be related to either maintenance and general care or believe it or not one theory I read was the stress of the autostart may be causing causing other stress in the powertrain itself.

My lease is ending soon on our 2nd Pacifica and I had fully intended to buy it as the lease end is far less than market value right now.  However, knowing there is a motor with potential issues clouds the issue a bit.  I suppose to include warranty would be most prudent thing.

I even just bought separate wheels for it recently that I intend to put snows on for this winter.  The same 20" OEM's as a matter of fact.  Crazy good deal.

My son did all his maintenance and followed their schedule to ensure long life. The fact that the motor has blown heads due to a leaking water pump that leaks internally into the motor and possibly the dropped valve steams make him never want to buy another Jeep again. I have since run into multiple coworkers that have had Jeep, Dodge and Chrysler products with the 3.6 and have all ended up dumping the autos due to motor issues. They said they would never go back to Stellantis as even right out of warranty, and they deny that any of it is their cheap engineering of the 3.6 motor.

If you buy it, good luck and yes get long term warranty as I keep finding more and more reported issues. Right now Mopar is not making any of the parts or 3.6 crate motors. Yes the strike has caused some issues, but from what I have learned trying to find a new motor for my son to buy and put into the Jeep is that the problems are real and not even 3rd party companies like Jasper motors is building them now until all the issues are resolved by Stellantis.

I can see a class action lawsuit coming due to the terrible 3.6L V6 motor from Stellantis.\

Speak of the Devil and look what I found.

Hearing a Ticking Noise? FCA Hit with Class Action Over Alleged 3.6L Pentastar V6 Engine Problems

Chrysler Pentastar 3.6L Problems Cause Class Action Lawsuit | CarComplaints.com

Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram Engine Lawsuit | US Auto Law

FCA Defective 3.6L Pentastar V6 Engines Class Action (classactionsreporter.com)

Ticking, Knocking Noise in Engine? | Chrysler, Dodge Jeep Lawsuit (classaction.org)

Last one is the most current and it is expanded beyond the 3.6L V6 to include all Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep and Ram autos from 2008 to 2021 that had V6 or Hemi V8 engines.

No wonder Stellantis is wanting to dump the Hemi and 3.6L V6 engine for newer engines, as it would appear they are looking at major lawsuits here in the U.S.

 

[G. David Felt]

This is very cool to read, GM has a press call today and it was very informative.

Chevy Equinox EV priced at $34,995—with an estimated 319 miles (greencarreports.com)

 

[A Horse With No Name]

8 hours ago, regfootball said:

On the pacificaforums.com that I go due (due to driving a Pacifica) there are topics of the v6 having issues.  Hard to gauge how prolific it is really but yes, an item of concern.  It was reasoned by a few that the percentage is actually very small (but with vocal impacted owners) and it may be related to either maintenance and general care or believe it or not one theory I read was the stress of the autostart may be causing causing other stress in the powertrain itself.

My lease is ending soon on our 2nd Pacifica and I had fully intended to buy it as the lease end is far less than market value right now.  However, knowing there is a motor with potential issues clouds the issue a bit.  I suppose to include warranty would be most prudent thing.

I even just bought separate wheels for it recently that I intend to put snows on for this winter.  The same 20" OEM's as a matter of fact.  Crazy good deal.

We rent Pacificas all of the time for debate team trips-I am an assistant coach of a collegiate debate team. They are a great road trip vehicle. Lots of happy memories in them. 

[Robert Hall]

13 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

It's interesting how GM's intermediates seemingly "took turns" at being the most attractive in a select span of years, though it's all subjective.

Something happened in 1970 where this platform's cars changed for the better - their looks were cleaner relative to 1969 and 1968.

Taking '70 to '72 into account, I'd say the Pontiac Le Mans was too much and the Chevy Malibu was a little too vanilla.  The Cutlass Supreme coupe was fairly attractive, with the rear lamps getting worse (busier) each year moving along from 1970 to 1972, making the Buick Skylark and its clean lines - grille and headlamps, greenhouse, and taillamps and fascia - the nicest GM intermediate (IMHO) during that span of years.

The '70-72 Buicks were sharp..same greenhouse as the '70-72 Chevelle.  I kind of like the '68-69 Buick Skylark for the sheer weirdness of their styling--the way the rear end curved inward and under, the sweepspear on the side (that Mercury inexeplicably used on the '69-70 Cougar).

 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

8 hours ago, David said:

This is very cool to read, GM has a press call today and it was very informative.

Chevy Equinox EV priced at $34,995—with an estimated 319 miles (greencarreports.com)

 

Already 5k more than what they said a few months ago. That's nice. 

[trinacriabob]

Happy Halloween, folks

I think that, even if we have the paper behind our names, not many of us are suits but, rather, business casual ... or just casual.

I'm going to be looking for some pumpkin pancakes and, should I see some receptionists' desks offering up free chocolate, that would be good, too.

Enjoy this last day of October.

[G. David Felt]

40 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Already 5k more than what they said a few months ago. That's nice. 

This is to be expected and not bad when you consider the inflation we have gone through since 2019.

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE could have predicted the idiot response our government did with Covid as well as the rest of the world and how the shortages would have affected both long-term and short-term prices. 

When you consider what everyone is asking for, we will never see autos that are priced below 20K ever again as a new auto unless you're in a third world area where safety devices are not required, and they still make the auto pretty much manual everything and even then, that is becoming a thing of the past. It is the electronics that have made thing more expensive and consumer demand for them.

While I hate unions with a passion due to my own experience with them and the failure they have done to the workers due to corruption in the 70's and 80's and it is still there now, I cannot deny the workers getting a fair piece of the pie from the corporations.

As such, cost of living, cost of manufacturing, cost of employment, etc. etc. etc. is all adding up to higher prices for autos.

Yes, we can all be upset if we only look at things through a stagnation point of view, but the reality is it is up to each of us to grow our skill set and our worth by shopping ourselves around to find those companies that value our self-worth and pay us what we are worth. This allows us to afford buying what we want.

This is why I do not see a $5K price increase as that bad for something that a company just starting to setup manufacturing of said product had to increase to cover costs of production.

This was all estimates of what they said they could produce it for at the start and now with contracts in hand, manufacturing set up, the actual prices are now firmed up.

This is CHEAP compared to what Tesla Promised and then actually delivered.

Remember the Tesla 3 was promised to be a $35K car in 2016, actual starting prices were $47,240 for the long range model and $53,240 for the performance model. Today in 2023 the Model 3 starts at $40,240 before the tax credit.

How Much Is a Tesla Model 3? Cost History, Price Drops, Fluctuations (businessinsider.com)

So Tesla has FAILED to deliver ever on their own original prices and a $12,240 price difference is way bigger than a $5k price difference on the Equinox EV that goes into production right after the start of the new year.

There is still a chance we will see some auto company deliver a cheaper version like GM has committed to for the Bolt, but that is subcompact compared to compact and already the compact are bigger than they used to be in size due to the required safety features.

That is how I see it IMHO.

[A Horse With No Name]

This would be a cool restoration project. Something inherently badass about a four door convertible, and from 32-40, Ford couldn't build an unattractive car. 

 

 

9 hours ago, David said:

This is very cool to read, GM has a press call today and it was very informative.

Chevy Equinox EV priced at $34,995—with an estimated 319 miles (greencarreports.com)

 

I would love a Hybrid Colorado actually. 

On 10/28/2023 at 11:36 PM, David said:

Here we are opposite, my perfect year:

1 month of spring

2 months of summer - Gotta keep the wife happy.

1 month of Fall

8 months of Winter - Ski season baby!!!!!!

Have to say I am excited by this.

BP Buying $100M Worth of Tesla EV Chargers: What's the Big Deal? - CNET

Excellent on more chargers. 

[ccap41]

34 minutes ago, David said:

This is to be expected and not bad when you consider the inflation we have gone through since 2019.

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE could have predicted the idiot response our government did with Covid as well as the rest of the world and how the shortages would have affected both long-term and short-term prices. 

What? If this was announced years ago, I'd agree. This was nnounced just earlier this year. This has nothing to do with Covid or inflation since 2019. They threw out $30,000 and knew damn well it wouldn't be 30k. It was a bait and *somewhat of a switch*. They wanted the attention-grabbing headlines. 

39 minutes ago, David said:

This is CHEAP compared to what Tesla Promised and then actually delivered.

You can order a 39k Model 3 right now. For 4k you can at least get a vehicle with a reputable electric powertrain/electronics. 

If 5k is such a negligible amount, get the Model 3. 

https://www.tesla.com/model3

 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

What? If this was announced years ago, I'd agree. This was nnounced just earlier this year. This has nothing to do with Covid or inflation since 2019. They threw out $30,000 and knew damn well it wouldn't be 30k. It was a bait and *somewhat of a switch*. They wanted the attention-grabbing headlines. 

You can order a 39k Model 3 right now. For 4k you can at least get a vehicle with a reputable electric powertrain/electronics. 

If 5k is such a negligible amount, get the Model 3. 

https://www.tesla.com/model3

 

Tesla had decades of bait n switch and GM as well as Ford got their EVs up and running mass production in 2 short years. So yes it is expected that prices would be vaporware based when they first announced them. News and many other sites all stated they would be surprised if GM kept to the $30K price point. Also while inflation did start going up, specifically:

Value of $1 from 2019 to 2023

$1 in 2019 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $1.20 today, an increase of $0.20 over 4 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 4.75% per year between 2019 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 20.39%.

This means that today's prices are 1.20 times as high as average prices since 2019, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index. A dollar today only buys 83.333% of what it could buy back then.

 

The inflation rate in 2019 was 1.76%. The current inflation rate compared to last year is now 3.70%. If this number holds, $1 today will be equivalent in buying power to $1.04 next year. 

$1 in 2019 → 2023 | Inflation Calculator (in2013dollars.com)

Just one of the many sites you can reference to see the difference between 2019 and now in 2023, our dollar only gets us 83.33% of what it used to be.

Same with this situation, GM probably did as you stated threw out a price to grab attention, no different than everything Musk says about Tesla or SMK says about Mercedes and Tesla.

As they say, where the rubber meets the road, the real prices are finally here and as such at least we now have firm pricing on the Equinox.

Nothing gets cheaper, only more expensive and we have to push ourselves to keep up or we drop in our ability to buy and live the quality of life we wish.

[ccap41]

55 minutes ago, David said:

So yes it is expected that prices would be vaporware based when they first announced them.

I doubt people who put money down on them expected an additional 5k. 

55 minutes ago, David said:

Value of $1 from 2019 to 2023

I'm not reading any of that because the 30,000 was announced THIS YEAR. 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022 are irrelevant. This is a 5k jump from September 8th, 2023. 

And I'll give them the "around" $30,000. but I don't think a $5,000 or 15% increase is exactly "around" $30,000. If they came out and said 32 or 33k. Sure, that's "around" 30k. 35k is as close to 40k as it is 30k. 

 

56 minutes ago, David said:

Same with this situation, GM probably did as you stated threw out a price to grab attention, no different than everything Musk says about Tesla or SMK says about Mercedes and Tesla.

So you're cool that your beloved General is pulling the same crap as Tesla? Don't you hate Tesla and how they're ran? 

[G. David Felt]

Just now, ccap41 said:

I doubt people who put money down on them expected an additional 5k. 

Tesla Customers put money down and ended up with far more than a 5K price increase. The actual price when the 3 came out is what caused allot of my coworkers to cancel their reservation.

I agree it sucks and one would think they could get more accurate pricing than this, but it was announced almost 2 years ago. This is not something that was earlier this year.

Quote: The Chevrolet Equinox EV was announced for sale on September 8, 2022. The limited edition 2RS will be available in fall 2023, while the full lineup will be available starting spring 2024. The estimated MSRP for the Equinox EV is around $30,000.

[ccap41]

19 minutes ago, David said:

I agree it sucks and one would think they could get more accurate pricing than this, but it was announced almost 2 years ago. This is not something that was earlier this year.

Sorry, I am wrong here but you're off by about as much as I'm off by. It was Sept 8th, 2022. NOT 2023(duh - I should have known this). It was more like 14 months ago.  

 

21 minutes ago, David said:

The actual price when the 3 came out is what caused allot of my coworkers to cancel their reservation.

Hopefully people cancel their orders here as well.  Fck OEMs with this crap. I don't care what the brand is, it's crappy to do this. 

Whoever throws this price estimate out is a professional and this was their specialty. It wasn't just some guy who threw a number out there. There were MANY calculations figured out before and they knew damn well they couldn't hit $30,000. The same way Tesla threw out $35,000, that happened for a couple months. They did it for the headline. 

[G. David Felt]

42 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Sorry, I am wrong here but you're off by about as much as I'm off by. It was Sept 8th, 2022. NOT 2023(duh - I should have known this). It was more like 14 months ago.  

 

Hopefully people cancel their orders here as well.  Fck OEMs with this crap. I don't care what the brand is, it's crappy to do this. 

Whoever throws this price estimate out is a professional and this was their specialty. It wasn't just some guy who threw a number out there. There were MANY calculations figured out before and they knew damn well they couldn't hit $30,000. The same way Tesla threw out $35,000, that happened for a couple months. They did it for the headline. 

Agree that in today's inflation driven world, computers especially with AI CPUs should allow them to be far more accurate on pricing and since they could in 24 months totally design and virtual test a all new auto, they should have been able to have far better estimates. 

This is also where I feel companies need to post the additional information that prices are subject to market driven forces and could increase or decrease based on market fluctuations. I think this gives proper wiggle room to remind the world that what happens on wall street and stock exchanges around the world can grossly change things overnight or over a few months or a year.

With that said I do love a state law we have here where if a retailer has a price posted on the shelve for a product and it rings up as more, they have to honor the price that is on the shelf, not in the POS (Point of Sale) system.

I am all for having the federal government hold companies to honoring prices they advertise or state. Course in this case GM used the marketing gains of being talked about as a $30K EV by using the word AROUND $30K. Unlike Rivian where they stated a firm starting price of $XX,XXX. At least they did come back to honor those that had reservations at those lower prices.

Big differences as Tesla said starting at $35K versus GM around $30K. Tesla honored for a short period the $30K EV price to keep from having more lawsuits than they have had.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, David said:

Unlike Rivian where they stated a firm starting price of $XX,XXX. At least they did come back to honor those that had reservations at those lower prices.

Oh boy, what a blunder that situation was for about 48 hours, until they reneged on that. What an idiotic decision to try and force previous reservation holders into the new price. If I'm not wrong, the price jump was something crazy like 15-20k, too, right? 

[G. David Felt]

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Oh boy, what a blunder that situation was for about 48 hours, until they reneged on that. What an idiotic decision to try and force previous reservation holders into the new price. If I'm not wrong, the price jump was something crazy like 15-20k, too, right? 

Yes depending on the configuration of the R1T launch edition.

According to the web this is what was stated at that time: The base model of the R1T pickup increased from $67,500 to just under $79,000, while the R1S base model had a similar jump, from $70,000 to $84,000. The new prices are effective for new customers, but early reservation holders will avoid the price hike.

So the price jump was even more for those that had the truck or SUV configured up with the max battery pack and fully loaded options.

Crazy

[surreal1272]

4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

So you're cool that your beloved General is pulling the same crap as Tesla? Don't you hate Tesla and how they're ran? 

Remember ccap. Some companies get a pass on lying to their customers while others don’t and all because of the badge on the hood. 

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, David said:

Big differences as Tesla said starting at $35K versus GM around $30K. Tesla honored for a short period the $30K EV price to keep from having more lawsuits than they have had.

Absolutely no difference except where people want word semantics to be involved. Skip the fact that, once again, the cheaper model is “down the road”. Ccap is right. That is deceptive pricing and using the word “around” means less when we are talking about being closer to 30K and not 35K. Nice little 15% gap there. It was BS when Tesla did it and its BS here. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

12 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Remember ccap. Some companies get a pass on lying to their customers while others don’t and all because of the badge on the hood. 

Nope the General does not get a pass on this, they never committed to a firm $30K price, they stated around $30K was what they were aiming for and did not do what Tesla and Rivian did with setting a firm price and then raising the price after the fact that they could not deliver on that price.

I agree with you that some folks will give certain brands a pass no matter what they pull, but I have to humbly disagree with you my friend that I have done this with GM.

They have screwed up plenty of times and right now they very well might have lost out on any business from me with delays to their EV portfolio. The next few years will tell is the delays are warranted or not and if the idiots who think we should stay stagnant on ICE auto versus EVs win this or not.

Interesting times we live in for sure.

[G. David Felt]

24 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Absolutely no difference except where people want word semantics to be involved. Skip the fact that, once again, the cheaper model is “down the road”. Ccap is right. That is deceptive pricing and using the word “around” means less when we are talking about being closer to 30K and not 35K. Nice little 15% gap there. It was BS when Tesla did it and its BS here. 

I agree with you that it is BS, but I disagree with you that the wording of Starting at $35K or $67,500 for R1T or $70K for R1S versus around $30K. 

Legally GM can get away with this as they did not state a firm starting price. Both Tesla and Rivian as we well know had to deliver to the original order holders that starting price for their EVs as they committed to the price starting there and took reservation money based on that pricing.

Around is not a commitment to $30,000 dollars even though everyone got excited with that price, even me. I have a sister and her partner that were wanting to buy, but here is where another difference is. GM NEVER took any reservations at a set price and the reservations do not open till November now that firm pricing is established.

GM's initial Equinox EV to start at $49,000, get over 300 miles range (freep.com)

I agree that you have the right to be pissed as does @ccap41 about a difference of $5K for a base starting price versus originally talking about pricing being around $30K. Just remember that GM has not done a bait and switch that did get Rivian and Tesla into hot water as Rivian and Tesla both took $1,000 deposits for EVs with a clearly stated starting price that they then tried to change. In Rivians case they honored the original pricing but for Tesla, they actually produced a few $35K Tesla 3 for a few months and then said that there was not enough demand to justify the price and production and killed it then raising prices across the board.

To me, that is a big difference and if GM can truly reduce costs by delaying launch of the Equinox till Q1 2024, then who knows, we might all still see a lower priced Equinox. As it stands, with January 1st 2024 the tax rebate being an instant rebate at the time of purchase on the dealership lot, a base price of $34,995 not including the instant $7,500 rebate makes this a sub $30,000 EV or to be clear, a base price of $27,495 for the base Chevrolet Equinox EV with 300 miles of range.

[surreal1272]

14 minutes ago, David said:

I agree with you that some folks will give certain brands a pass no matter what they pull, but I have to humbly disagree with you my friend that I have done this with GM

You literally did just that above, hence me quoting you on it. Like I said before, the word semantics matter not one bit to prospective customers who were told one thing only to be misled or lied to over. Around or at, it’s the same offense, end of discussion. 

[G. David Felt]

27 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You literally did just that above, hence me quoting you on it. Like I said before, the word semantics matter not one bit to prospective customers who were told one thing only to be misled or lied to over. Around or at, it’s the same offense, end of discussion. 

This is one that we will have to agree to disagree on as Starting at price with reservation deposits versus around price with no reservations/deposits are two very different things.

GM was very clear that they were focusing on having a price around $30K for the base Equinox but would not be able to commit till farther along in their work when they first started talking about this at the 2022 CES show in January of last year and then said they would hopefully be around $30k for a starting price but again no commitment to the price or reservations allowed so it was just a goal.

But we each take the verbiage differently.

Starting Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

Around Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

I get that around is as defined with some approach to exactness versus starting is a set point or price.

Yes I get that you see it as a semantic and that GM should have delivered a $30K Equinox. After instant rebate it is still a $27K EV.

[surreal1272]

57 minutes ago, David said:

This is one that we will have to agree to disagree on as Starting at price with reservation deposits versus around price with no reservations/deposits are two very different things.

Not when it comes to the same expectations from prospective customers expecting a closer to $30K EV instead of a $35K EV that won’t even be out first. In a battle to gain a certain amount of good PR and trust, GM ended up doing the same thing as Tesla. Whether someone put down money on it is irrelevant because it’s the same negative PR result. That’s what you are not getting while continuing use SMK like bar moving defense of GM. 

 

“Agree to disagree”. That’s on you since you’re the one blindly defending the practice while I called out both companies for it without the excuses. 

[trinacriabob]

Here's another one of those handy lists I thought of sharing that has to do with renting cars.

Assume you've left the rental counter or checked in some other way and now you're heading to your car.

The 5 most important things to do, in my opinion:

1. 

Inspect the car, take photos of it are back up, bring any preexisting things to the attention of the rental agency, and see if there is anything that won't work for you. 

They once gave me a Malibu Maxx (no prize) where the rear over cover was missing, and I had to buy cardboard at Home Depot to toss around to cover my things.  I've rarely had to give a rental car back, but I have done it a few times.

Take at least 10 photos:  4 of each side of the car, 4 of each angled view, 1 of the glass, and 1 that pans the interior; if it has expensive alloy wheels, take photos of those that show their position relative to the car (which side, front or rear)

2.

Make sure the lights are set to "auto."  They're sometimes not set this way by the last driver and you might find yourself driving without lights at dusk until you figure it out.

3.

See how many keys you have been given.  In some places, they will give you one.  In others, they will give you two.  Take a photo of them on the hood or in your hand to corroborate that.

4.

Adjust your seating position and that of mirrors to what works for you.

5.

Then, set up your electronic devices and get an idea of the infotainment and climate control panels.  Reset the trip odometer(s) if this matters to you or if they charge for miles.

- - - - -

Here's an additional 5:

6.

Check the stalks, since each brand seems to invert these and the wipers and other functions might be on the side you're not accustomed to.  They often invert cruise control and audio/info functions on steering wheel mounted controls, too.

7.

Tap the horn as you're driving out, away from the rental aisle, to see how hard you have to press on the pad and what it sounds like.

8.

Note what side the fuel goes in and how to release the latch.

9.

Figure out where you're going to put things, both in the cabin and in the trunk for security and efficiency.  Look for concealed cubby holes and areas where you can put small things (such as hotel magnetic keys, coins, etc.) and keep them out of view.

10.

Throw a pen and a small writing pad into the console or, if no console, the glove box.

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by trinacriabob

[riviera74]

Apparently the strikes called by the UAW are over.  The UAW got their large pound of flesh from the Detroit Three, given the new leadership that called the series of strikes.  Makes you wonder what would happen if there was no UAW getting in the way of almost everything.

[surreal1272]

11 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Apparently the strikes called by the UAW are over.  The UAW got their large pound of flesh from the Detroit Three, given the new leadership that called the series of strikes.  Makes you wonder what would happen if there was no UAW getting in the way of almost everything.

No need to wonder. The big 3 would continue to not pay their workers enough while producing a subpar (at times) product. Sorry but if CEOs like Barra can collect $29 million last year (alone) to basically be a mouthpiece, then they can afford to pay their workers an actual living wage. Not saying the UAW is perfect because I have called them out many times in the past but  to act like these companies would somehow be better without unions is ignoring the reasons why they exist in the first place. 

12 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Edited November 1, 2023 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

13 hours ago, David said:

Yes I get that you see it as a semantic and that GM should have delivered a $30K Equinox. After instant rebate it is still a $27K EV.

Yet it could have been $22K after the rebate. Which one sounds more enticing to the customer before pulling the rug out from underneath them? $27K or $22K, especially after almost two years of “it’s going to start under $30K” crowing by GMs fans like yourself (there are repeated posts by you making this claim over that time)? See if your word game applies here. Don’t “agree to disagree”. Actually make a valid point supporting GMs misleading claim of pricing on a vehicle that will not even be the first one out the gate? Explain how it makes any difference (as far as the wording) when the first models coming up for this “around $30K” are both far north of that price by “around” $18K? 

[riviera74]

38 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

No need to wonder. The big 3 would continue to not pay their workers enough while producing a subpar (at times) product. Sorry but if CEOs like Barra can collect $29 million last year (alone) to basically be a mouthpiece, then they can afford to pay their workers an actual living wage. Not saying the UAW is perfect because I have called them out many times in the past but  to act like these companies would somehow be better without unions is ignoring the reasons why they exist in the first place. 

Fair point about CEO compensation.

[surreal1272]

5 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Fair point about CEO compensation.

And don’t get my wrong about the unions and their role here. They wanted more money and they got it. Now, they better validate that raise with a product to match or they will ensure a disaster for those companies down the road. Put up or shut up, basically, at this point. 

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, David said:

Nope the General does not get a pass on this, they never committed to a firm $30K price, they stated around $30K was what they were aiming for and did not do what Tesla and Rivian did with setting a firm price and then raising the price after the fact that they could not deliver on that price.

You are literally giving them a pass right now. 

While what Rivian did was crappy, that is a completely different issue because they were already selling the vehicles at the original pricing. They didn't make that price hike before deliveries. That was about 6 months after it was being delivered. 

15 hours ago, David said:

But we each take the verbiage differently.

Starting Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

Around Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

I get that around is as defined with some approach to exactness versus starting is a set point or price.

Yes I get that you see it as a semantic and that GM should have delivered a $30K Equinox. After instant rebate it is still a $27K EV.

We all know what "around" means. It's a relative word that could mean all sorts of different things to all sorts of different people. They knew this. They knew exactly this. That's why I think it's crappy of them.

Also, I'm not annoyed that it isn't 30k. I'm annoyed because *to me* 35k is less "around" than it ought to be. "Around" feels more like +/- 10% ($3,000, in this case). 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 10/29/2023 at 9:25 AM, Robert Hall said:

My ideal would be 4 months of summer (no highs over 80, low humidity), 4 months of autumn, 2 months of spring, 2 months of winter (no lows under 40). 

My ideal would be hiking in Patagonia, never returning to Ohio. I love Ohio, but would prefer to have a life of exploring new things. 

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

And don’t get my wrong about the unions and their role here. They wanted more money and they got it. Now, they better validate that raise with a product to match or they will ensure a disaster for those companies down the road. Put up or shut up, basically, at this point. 

Modern cars are more complex.  Anything modern, especially if it is European, is bound to be a PITA. 

 

Breaks my heart,. I despise Musk. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-31/tesla-tsla-erases-145-billion-in-valuation-as-demand-woes-intensify?srnd=premium?utm_medium=social&utm_source=bluesky&utm_content=business&leadSource=reddit_wall

13 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Apparently the strikes called by the UAW are over.  The UAW got their large pound of flesh from the Detroit Three, given the new leadership that called the series of strikes.  Makes you wonder what would happen if there was no UAW getting in the way of almost everything.

Workers would be further underpaid, product quality would still largely have issues. 

16 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Remember ccap. Some companies get a pass on lying to their customers while others don’t and all because of the badge on the hood. 

Depends on who is giving the pass. 

[A Horse With No Name]

23 hours ago, ccap41 said:

What? If this was announced years ago, I'd agree. This was nnounced just earlier this year. This has nothing to do with Covid or inflation since 2019. They threw out $30,000 and knew damn well it wouldn't be 30k. It was a bait and *somewhat of a switch*. They wanted the attention-grabbing headlines. 

You can order a 39k Model 3 right now. For 4k you can at least get a vehicle with a reputable electric powertrain/electronics. 

If 5k is such a negligible amount, get the Model 3. 

https://www.tesla.com/model3

 

I would happily buy a model 3 if Musk were something of a respectable decent human being. Don't want to get into a flame war or politics, but I despise the guy. Last thing I want to say here, as given my high level of testosterone, moderate level of intellect, and complete lack of self control....this would get me into a flame war that would rival all previous mindless C and G flame wars...and get me banned. 

So let's end with a positive. At 77,000 plus miles Ranger is doing fantastic. ccap41, you were indeed correct on THAT much, anyways.