Cadillac CT6 Review Thread: Post Them ALL Here.

[hyperv6]

 

COULD IT BE that Cadillac, Ellinghaus, and JDN are not perhaps simply trying a different approach to luxury? Does higher price necessarily mean that a luxo buyer is getting the best product for the segment. Again I reiterate that I don;t see the CT6 as the Flagship of Cadillac, but a Flagship worthy vehicle in wait for the real one to arrive.. and will do a spectacular job in the mean time

 

I think we are no longer going to see them take the road in terms of convention. Who says that the market can not have fringe sales? The Panamera and XJ prove a great deal of inclination of buyers rests in NOT buying the status quo. I don't think the CT6 is a tweener. I think the CT6 could be that disruption we've been hearing about. NO MOLD. 

 

 

 

Well you have to consider the whole picture here. This was not a Ellinghaus or JDN car. This car was more Mark Reuss than anything else. The Turn over in Cadillac management was great during the development of this car and it fell to Mark to fight for what he could get on this car. Remember he had a big fight over the door handles as he wanted higher quality and those in GM wanted Cheaper. From all reports he got a lot but not all he wanted and that is why JDN was brought in and let to move to NYC. 

 

This car only had about a year and a half under JDN and so what changed he brought were small. At this point he has to work with a car the did not so much create but needs to buy time till he gets the CT8 he truly wants. 

 

Like I said this may be the best Cadillac they have ever built but it is still under the level of what the new management wants. 

I think they will offer may versions and many levels of trim to see what sticks and go from there. By trying to offer a car as good or better for a lower price they will get people at least to look at the cars. This is where you change hearts. Being this is a very well engineered car and still a very good car will also help. This be it their work or not is their lead in to the new coming products they did do and it will only get even better there. 

It is kind of like you love your Iphone 6 you will really love the Iphone 7 when it arrives. That is today's mentality. 

 

For the record I see the newer cars coming as being even higher quality and being more fluid in their styling. I also expect them to gain even more advanced features. Quality and high tech are two hot topics around Cadillac's future and they are pushing it. Also they want to win in this class on their terms as being Cadillac not being a American Benz. 

I see a very bright future based on this car and it is just what they inherited. 

[oldshurst442]

Ill be the third to complain about that too.

 

Is it that expensive to just nix that black plastic trim and make it the same beige colour like the surroundings?

 

Oldsmobile had the right idea in the late 1990s to early 2000s.

 

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

This interior is so perfectly elegant. I'd love to see this execution in an ATS.

 

Agree that is a Sexy Interior Dash. Way better than what MB or BMW has done. Hope they put this in all the auto's. I would expect to see this in the ATS replacement CT3 as well as the CTS replacement CT5, Unless GM wants to go CT2 and CT4 for them.

 

 

 

 

Yes.. I believe that this is the new styling direction for all of Cadillac.. including the CTS and ATS replacements. I personally have no issue with the current style, but the Piano Black seems to bother more than a few reviewers. 

 

Anyway.. witness the XT5

 

[oldshurst442]

That is elegant, Casa.

 

From the school of less is more.

 

The FWD STS interiors from the 1990s all the way to the early 2000s were elegant, and the direction that Cadillac is taking now reminds me of that time.

 

 

But with better materials and fit and finish.

They are finally finishing what they started from when the STS was introduced in the early 1990s.

Edited January 27, 2016 by oldshurst442

[Cmicasa the Great]

The car really is stunning. I find it interesting that the interior and car in general are getting just great reviews.. while JDN himself exclaimed that the ones being driven were still PRE-PRODUCTION. Jeeez.. what's the finished product gonna be like?

 

 

 

Cadillac president Johan de Nysschen warned us the CT6s we were testing were pre-production prototypes with fit-and-finish that may not be up to snuff. That guy’s nuts, because all the CT6s I drove in LA had impeccable interior quality—the best I’ve seen from Cadillac so far. Stitching, materials, comfort, tech, all of it was top notch. It is the height of opulessence.

http://jalopnik.com/the-2016-cadillac-ct6-makes-american-luxury-relevant-ag-1754754770

[hyperv6]

The product will be top notch. The interior may have been the one area they could address in the last year or so. Changes there take much less to do. Same with the Cue and dash. 

 

As for the black. Well GM as a whole has tried to change up their interior with contrasting color to bring a much deeper look and appearance. They have used the brown and brick to great effect in many vehicles like my Terrain. It makes even a cheap interior look like it has more depth and richness. 

The one look at the Olds interior above is why they did it. That one looks like someone took a can of spray dye and just shoot the whole interior. There is not contrast of depth to the interior. 

 

I am sure someone will find nagging issues somewhere as Cadillac will never get a free pass like BMW or Benz but I suspect they will be trivial. 

[cp-the-nerd]

My ONLY gripe with this car is just that the exterior design is about 10% shy of enough visual drama. I'm obviously a GM guy, especially Chevy and Cadillac, and I guarantee I can't pick this car out from a CTS beyond 50 feet.

 

I've grown to like it more than I did at first, because when it was unveiled, I was HUGELY disappointed not to see cues from the Ciel and Elmiraj. Just because this isn't a "true" flagship, IMO that's not an excuse to give the car a face that could pass for a mild refresh of the car slotted below it.

 

But I digress. I give the exterior a B or B-, but the rest of the car seems to be a straight A student.

[smk4565]

I think the 2000 STS interior is better than the XT5. The XT5 looks boring, and that wide swath of beige on the dash and black center console looks terrible. They couldn't pit some wood or carbon fiber in there?

[surreal1272]

I think the 2000 STS interior is better than the XT5. The XT5 looks boring, and that wide swath of beige on the dash and black center console looks terrible. They couldn't pit some wood or carbon fiber in there?

I think glasses are in your future.

 

There is nothing wrong with the XT5 interior whatsoever.

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

OK...I see the point.

 

 

Ill agree to the fact that the Intrigue's interior does lack depth, although that interior did have two tones, not enough to make a visual impact of the wow factor.

 

On that particular CT6, there is enough brown accents with the leather and the wood that adding more brownish tints will look lackluster.

Maybe the black route was the best way...

[surreal1272]

OK...I see the point.

 

 

Ill agree to the fact that the Intrigue's interior does lack depth, although that interior did have two tones, not enough to make a visual impact of the wow factor.

 

On that particular CT6, there is enough brown accents with the leather and the wood that adding more brownish tints will look lackluster.

Maybe the black route was the best way...

My thoughts exactly. The black is good because it provides some much needed contrast. If it didn't have that, SMK would still find flaws with it so I'd just take that with a grain of salt anyway.

[Suaviloquent]

Very well done, and I think the vehicle should do amazing for the entire industry as it proves that extreme light-weighting can be done without the use of CF. Also, I love how in the darker paint colors, it's almost impossible to notice that it looks like there's no cut-line for the hood.

 

However - the non Platinum interior looks far different from the Base, Luxury and Premium luxury. As expected though.

 

The realistic selling price of the his vehicle will be around the $65,000 range. + or - $5,000 perhaps. And there is a whole lot less premium trim in those interiors.

 

I took a look at what that might look like in the configurator. The exterior looks exactly the same, but the interior looks about what I think belongs in the size class below this vehicle in their respective middle trims, not top of the line interiors.

 

On the exterior side, there's actually less chrome trim too, and the grille isn't as jarring with chrome. That makes the car look like a sleeper, like stealth wealth. And I love stealth wealth, so extra browine points for Cadillac there.

 

My only other gripe is the ugly steering wheel caused by "Christ! what is it with the giant Cadillac badge" on the front and the steering wheel. But I can live with that, given the first thing I would do is a proper badge job to get smaller badges and get a Fleetwood badge to replace the "CT6". Simple mods that will make a huge difference. 

 

The Cadillac badge on the V models is smaller and looks so much better because it is centered vertically and horizontally on the grille. 

 

I was also hoping for more trim choices as just metal only, and metal drilled speaker holes like everyone else is doing. And aside from the interior combinations that use only wood trim - the ones with the carbon weave with bronze accents look weird to me. I mean it's just a lot of sharp contrast and bizarre shapes. But it's nice that its available to those who want it.

[Suaviloquent]

Actually considering the difference between the lower trims vs Platinum, the black perforated look surrounding material of the screen looks like an artifact from the lowest trim.

 

Look as the base CT6 interior and all the larger wood trim piece becomes some soft material instead. So the material matches more, and the interior looks better matched.

 

It doesn't belong in the top trim, and it looks cheap. But again, we can live with it because of the car's price, but how much would it have cost Cadillac to fix that one error in the top trim?

 

Or how much could we just pay to get rid of the eyesore in (aside from steering wheel as well) an otherwise well done interior?

[oldshurst442]

Actually considering the difference between the lower trims vs Platinum, the black perforated look surrounding material of the screen looks like an artifact from the lowest trim.

 

Look as the base CT6 interior and all the larger wood trim piece becomes some soft material instead. So the material matches more, and the interior looks better matched.

 

It doesn't belong in the top trim, and it looks cheap. But again, we can live with it because of the car's price, but how much would it have cost Cadillac to fix that one error in the top trim?

 

Or how much could we just pay to get rid of the eyesore in (aside from steering wheel as well) an otherwise well done interior?

Im flip flopping with this issue.

 

Although I dont have a problem with it like I did earlier, Im still bewildered at the fact that Cadillac could have made that trim and airbag colour choice a better one, base trim level or not.

 

Cadillac, to me, should give NOBODY ANY reason to criticize ANYTHING!

 

There WILL be detractors no matter what...no matter how trivial a black plastic trim might be....

 

I understand that Reuss had a big fight over door handles...and this is a car that Ellinghaus and JDN had almost no control over as this car was already done by the time they were in charge....but going forward, trivial stuff like this needs to be eliminated.

 

Lexus, correct me if Im wrong, went over and beyond with these types of details while undermining their price tags on their vehicles for a good 15 years...sweating out the details...

 

THIS is an area where Im sure JDN understands very well. Im positive of the future for Cadillac in that regard.

 

Hyper mentions the move to NYC.

I also believe the move to NYC was because corporate still does not understand the importance of the little details.

[Suaviloquent]

I think the consumer wins more by not going to the Platinum model.

 

Because I think the car looks better as a sleeper, and I hate the grille treatment of the Platinum.

 

Like seriously - if you wanted a luxo version of the 94-96 Impala SS. A technologically advanced, ultra luxury version of that... 

 

This is my favorite interior. It looks techy, and I think a techy approach fits the car way better. 

 

 

 

 

 

[hyperv6]

My ONLY gripe with this car is just that the exterior design is about 10% shy of enough visual drama. I'm obviously a GM guy, especially Chevy and Cadillac, and I guarantee I can't pick this car out from a CTS beyond 50 feet.

 

I've grown to like it more than I did at first, because when it was unveiled, I was HUGELY disappointed not to see cues from the Ciel and Elmiraj. Just because this isn't a "true" flagship, IMO that's not an excuse to give the car a face that could pass for a mild refresh of the car slotted below it.

 

But I digress. I give the exterior a B or B-, but the rest of the car seems to be a straight A student.

 

The problem is the Elmiraj and Ciel were done after this car was pretty much locked in. This car is not new at GM as they have been working on it for a good while. 

I agree this is not a flag ship wow but then again it really is not the flag ship either. I think they improved on the CTS styling and wished they had taken it farther but that is what I expect the present manager will do. The body was done long before they arrived. 

 

I think the new managers will bring out that lacking 10% in the entire car that GM just never would fully go all in on. Mark had to fight too many battles on this car than he should have. #1 this is Cadillac so no corners should be cut. #2 Mark should have been let do what he felt needed to be done. I know he is proud of this car but it is still not 100% of what he was shooting for. 

[ccap41]

I think the 2000 STS interior is better than the XT5. The XT5 looks boring, and that wide swath of beige on the dash and black center console looks terrible. They couldn't pit some wood or carbon fiber in there?

I think glasses are in your future.

 

There is nothing wrong with the XT5 interior whatsoever.

 

See, why couldn't/didn't they utilize the Black and Tan on the CT6 like they did on the XT5??? The colors flow so much better, IMO.

OK...I see the point.

 

 

Ill agree to the fact that the Intrigue's interior does lack depth, although that interior did have two tones, not enough to make a visual impact of the wow factor.

 

On that particular CT6, there is enough brown accents with the leather and the wood that adding more brownish tints will look lackluster.

Maybe the black route was the best way...

In my opinion, they should have used a coffee brown as a secondary color instead of the black. Something really dark but still a brown.

[hyperv6]

 

OK...I see the point.

 

 

Ill agree to the fact that the Intrigue's interior does lack depth, although that interior did have two tones, not enough to make a visual impact of the wow factor.

 

On that particular CT6, there is enough brown accents with the leather and the wood that adding more brownish tints will look lackluster.

Maybe the black route was the best way...

My thoughts exactly. The black is good because it provides some much needed contrast. If it didn't have that, SMK would still find flaws with it so I'd just take that with a grain of salt anyway.

 

 

Contrast is a very subjective thing. Some folks love it some hate it and some are fine with either. It is not as neutral as a solid color as most people ignore it as they just over look it and it really calls no attention to details. 

 

I would not be surprised if Cadillac at some points will add custom time to the interiors of some future models. They will let you choose from a host of options to create your own colors. Now keep in mind this would only be on the most expensive models. 

Also these colors here are not unlike what you would see in a Bentley GT. In fact it is a little subdued. Some of those are really contrasting and they do look great in person. 

 

If I were to complain I think the wood looks cheap in the photo on the bottom of the wheel. I expect it looks better in person as they may have airbrushed it or dulled it to get the photo. 

Edited January 28, 2016 by hyperv6

[surreal1272]

 

 

OK...I see the point.

 

 

Ill agree to the fact that the Intrigue's interior does lack depth, although that interior did have two tones, not enough to make a visual impact of the wow factor.

 

On that particular CT6, there is enough brown accents with the leather and the wood that adding more brownish tints will look lackluster.

Maybe the black route was the best way...

My thoughts exactly. The black is good because it provides some much needed contrast. If it didn't have that, SMK would still find flaws with it so I'd just take that with a grain of salt anyway.

 

 

Contrast is a very subjective thing. Some folks love it some hate it and some are fine with either. It is not as neutral as a solid color as most people ignore it as they just over look it and it really calls no attention to details. 

 

I would not be surprised if Cadillac at some points will add custom time to the interiors of some future models. They will let you choose from a host of options to create your own colors. Now keep in mind this would only be on the most expensive models. 

Also these colors here are not unlike what you would see in a Bentley GT. In fact it is a little subdued. Some of those are really contrasting and they do look great in person. 

 

If I were to complain I think the wood looks cheap in the photo on the bottom of the wheel. I expect it looks better in person as they may have airbrushed it or dulled it to get the photo. 

 

The fact that is subjective just shows that it really isn't that big of a deal except on an individual level as opposed to an overall group level. I think most people will have no problem with the color choices on the CT6.

[smk4565]

How come the shifter in the XT5 looks like it came off a 5-series and the CT6 shifter looks like it came off a Grand Cherokee or 300?  Shouldn't they use the same shifter?  And not one that looks like the weird thing BMW uses?

[Cmicasa the Great]

The product will be top notch. The interior may have been the one area they could address in the last year or so. Changes there take much less to do. Same with the Cue and dash. 

 

As for the black. Well GM as a whole has tried to change up their interior with contrasting color to bring a much deeper look and appearance. They have used the brown and brick to great effect in many vehicles like my Terrain. It makes even a cheap interior look like it has more depth and richness. 

The one look at the Olds interior above is why they did it. That one looks like someone took a can of spray dye and just shoot the whole interior. There is not contrast of depth to the interior. 

 

I am sure someone will find nagging issues somewhere as Cadillac will never get a free pass like BMW or Benz but I suspect they will be trivial. 

 

 

Yes. Someone sees it as I see it. And it wasn't just a GM thing back then,.. all the makes did $h! like this. It looked like the epitome of "for the sake of $h!." 

 

[surreal1272]

How come the shifter in the XT5 looks like it came off a 5-series and the CT6 shifter looks like it came off a Grand Cherokee or 300? Shouldn't they use the same shifter? And not one that looks like the weird thing BMW uses?

Why does the E Class use a similar shifter while the GLA uses a Chrsyler like dial? Shouldn't they use the same shifter?

Seriously.

Edited January 28, 2016 by surreal1272

[cp-the-nerd]

 

How come the shifter in the XT5 looks like it came off a 5-series and the CT6 shifter looks like it came off a Grand Cherokee or 300? Shouldn't they use the same shifter? And not one that looks like the weird thing BMW uses?

Why does the E Class use a similar shifter while the GLA uses a Chrsyler like dial? Shouldn't they use the same shifter?

Seriously.

 

 

Totally different powertrains. I believe the FWD 8-speed is an outsourced trans. That XT5 shifter is shared with the new Lacrosse using the same trans.

[David]

In looking at both CT6 Dash and the XT5 Dash, they are both really nice, I have no problem with the black airbag cover on the steering wheel or the what looks as soft touch dimpled black around the nav. Nice contrast. At the same time, I do also like the XT5 dash. I can see some people saying it is too much tan so maybe the black soft touch section will work for people. Will be interesting to compare and contrast them both.

 

CT6 Dash Below.

XT5 Dash above.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I'm flip flopping with this issue.

 

Although I dont have a problem with it like I did earlier, Im still bewildered at the fact that Cadillac could have made that trim and airbag colour choice a better one, base trim level or not.

 

Cadillac, to me, should give NOBODY ANY reason to criticize ANYTHING!

 

There WILL be detractors no matter what...no matter how trivial a black plastic trim might be....

 

I understand that Reuss had a big fight over door handles...and this is a car that Ellinghaus and JDN had almost no control over as this car was already done by the time they were in charge....but going forward, trivial stuff like this needs to be eliminated.

 

Lexus, correct me if Im wrong, went over and beyond with these types of details while undermining their price tags on their vehicles for a good 15 years...sweating out the details...

 

THIS is an area where Im sure JDN understands very well. Im positive of the future for Cadillac in that regard.

 

Hyper mentions the move to NYC.

I also believe the move to NYC was because corporate still does not understand the importance of the little details.

 

 

 

Stop flip-flopping... its evident that Cadillac, in general, could use a bit of "Designo" type capabilities. Customization if U will.. for people who have an issue with certain palette choices. I'm of the opinion that JDN and Associates need to get on that aspect lickiety-split.. as it is a huge profit generator. 

 

 

Second.. Lexus did do its due diligence in "sweating the details," but Lexus was an upstart LUXURY brand.. Cadillac, tho still proving itself as a DESIRABLE brand to Millennials and GenX..has never lost the title of a luxury brand, it did, however, fall from its lofty position as preeminent luxury brand, or Standard of the World. It is looking to reclaim that. Problem is that now, the definition of luxury, or rather the respect of being luxury seems to come from desirability being measured more by sales than the price point people are interested in paying. Cadillac as an overall brand commands a price average that is almost on par with the current leader in luxury, but because its sales have been down, or not on the level of the Benz, BMW, or Lexus.. it is levied a bit of disrespect and second guessing on PRODUCT. As if to say the ATS, for instance, is not a great entry level luxo because its sales are not on par with the 3Series. Up until the 80s.. Cadillac was the leader in luxury hands down. Not Benz, not BMW, not even Rolls held the same capabilities as Cadillac mass selling while still retaining tier one status. They became complacent.. and also decadent, leading them to where they are now. Some wish to blame the Diesel debacle, 4-6-8, or the Cimmaron, but in reality Cadillac's biggest faux pax was not CHANGING to what they are now when they were most relevant. Had Cadillac made the changes they started making with the CTS in 2003, in 1983, or even 1993, they would currently be viewed as a real Benz/BMW competitor, and would still own the American market, and most likely China, with a real presence in Europe too. 

 

Why does Cadillac get such a chance??? Why are they being cheered on so much as they are??? Well.. an example of what I say lies in the past.. recent in fact. This Fleetwood interior, IMO outclassed the SClass and 745's.. in terms of LUXURY, but they had it on SPORT

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously. Which do U see as more luxury.. more rich? Notice the contrasting of the Cadillac?? LOL

 

To the New York Move

 

JDN has recruited proper folk away from the competition and industries that cater to luxury people. It is an absolute necessity. One can not have a luxury brand run by NASCAR people. In other words, the same execs that run/ran Chevy/Holden/Pontiac.. can not run Cadillac. No way.. no how. They new recruits were also most likely also lured in by the attractiveness of rebuilding this storied brand. A Brand that has more automotivefirsts than I can think. Even in skeletal form, Cadillac now shows unbelievable potential. Six vehicles for sale, with only one having a variant (ATS Coupe) and they still manage to NOT be last in the luxury race, with ATPs that top the #1 selling luxo brand in the U.S., furthermore it managed to sell, just under, a smidge less than Audi, which has DOUBLE its line-up

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

My ONLY gripe with this car is just that the exterior design is about 10% shy of enough visual drama. I'm obviously a GM guy, especially Chevy and Cadillac, and I guarantee I can't pick this car out from a CTS beyond 50 feet.

 

I've grown to like it more than I did at first, because when it was unveiled, I was HUGELY disappointed not to see cues from the Ciel and Elmiraj. Just because this isn't a "true" flagship, IMO that's not an excuse to give the car a face that could pass for a mild refresh of the car slotted below it.

 

But I digress. I give the exterior a B or B-, but the rest of the car seems to be a straight A student.

 

The problem is the Elmiraj and Ciel were done after this car was pretty much locked in. This car is not new at GM as they have been working on it for a good while. 

I agree this is not a flag ship wow but then again it really is not the flag ship either. I think they improved on the CTS styling and wished they had taken it farther but that is what I expect the present manager will do. The body was done long before they arrived. 

 

I think the new managers will bring out that lacking 10% in the entire car that GM just never would fully go all in on. Mark had to fight too many battles on this car than he should have. #1 this is Cadillac so no corners should be cut. #2 Mark should have been let do what he felt needed to be done. I know he is proud of this car but it is still not 100% of what he was shooting for. 

 

 

 

YEah. I wish people would get off that idea that the ElMiraj should be avail NOW. It shouldn't. Its a styling exercise that will most likely show up next gen.. like the Ciel is evident in the ATS, CTS, and CT6, not to mention the Escalade. The SRX is still apart of the OLD Cadillac language from the Evoque. The ELR and  XTS, come from the Converj.. both of them. Bottom line if they introduced the ElMiraj right now.. in the current line-up.. they would have one mismatched looking car on the lot with several that look nothing like it. That styling exercise needs to come at the same time as new introductions are starting to roll out in mass. I would expect that the styling of the next CTS, ATS will be tweaks on the current design to align them even more with the CT6, Slade and XT5. The ATS, by the way.. may have been the spring-board of all of this, begot from the last gen CTS and STS. Look at that car and U can see that it was designed around the same time as the 2008 CTS. From the rear.. they can easily be confused. The ATS, as many may kno.. was set to debut around the same time as the Second Gen CTS as a replacement for the 9-3 based BLS.. of course BK spoiled that

[Cmicasa the Great]

How come the shifter in the XT5 looks like it came off a 5-series and the CT6 shifter looks like it came off a Grand Cherokee or 300?  Shouldn't they use the same shifter?  And not one that looks like the weird thing BMW uses?

 

 

U could go around the industry and find similar shifters. Why not complain about the fact that for some STRANGE reason.. BMW uses a round steering wheel just like the Cadillacs. In other words U are looking for a bunch of BS to bitch about

[smk4565]

How come the shifter in the XT5 looks like it came off a 5-series and the CT6 shifter looks like it came off a Grand Cherokee or 300? Shouldn't they use the same shifter? And not one that looks like the weird thing BMW uses?

Why does the E Class use a similar shifter while the GLA uses a Chrsyler like dial? Shouldn't they use the same shifter?

Seriously.

 

Totally different powertrains. I believe the FWD 8-speed is an outsourced trans. That XT5 shifter is shared with the new Lacrosse using the same trans.

The GLA has a column mounted shifter. But thanks CP, that explanation makes sense if the Cadillac crossovers and Buicks that are front drive use one type and the rear drive Cadillac sedans use another. Although all these things are shift by wire now anyways.

[surreal1272]

 

 

How come the shifter in the XT5 looks like it came off a 5-series and the CT6 shifter looks like it came off a Grand Cherokee or 300? Shouldn't they use the same shifter? And not one that looks like the weird thing BMW uses?

Why does the E Class use a similar shifter while the GLA uses a Chrsyler like dial? Shouldn't they use the same shifter?

Seriously.

 

 

Totally different powertrains. I believe the FWD 8-speed is an outsourced trans. That XT5 shifter is shared with the new Lacrosse using the same trans.

 

Which is exactly what I'm getting at.

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

How come the shifter in the XT5 looks like it came off a 5-series and the CT6 shifter looks like it came off a Grand Cherokee or 300? Shouldn't they use the same shifter? And not one that looks like the weird thing BMW uses?

Why does the E Class use a similar shifter while the GLA uses a Chrsyler like dial? Shouldn't they use the same shifter?

Seriously.

 

Totally different powertrains. I believe the FWD 8-speed is an outsourced trans. That XT5 shifter is shared with the new Lacrosse using the same trans.

The GLA has a column mounted shifter. But thanks CP, that explanation makes sense if the Cadillac crossovers and Buicks that are front drive use one type and the rear drive Cadillac sedans use another. Although all these things are shift by wire now anyways.

 

You knew this to begin with. It was pure trolling on your part to point it out though. Casa pretty much summed up your intentions best.

[cp-the-nerd]

 

 

My ONLY gripe with this car is just that the exterior design is about 10% shy of enough visual drama. I'm obviously a GM guy, especially Chevy and Cadillac, and I guarantee I can't pick this car out from a CTS beyond 50 feet.

 

I've grown to like it more than I did at first, because when it was unveiled, I was HUGELY disappointed not to see cues from the Ciel and Elmiraj. Just because this isn't a "true" flagship, IMO that's not an excuse to give the car a face that could pass for a mild refresh of the car slotted below it.

 

But I digress. I give the exterior a B or B-, but the rest of the car seems to be a straight A student.

 

The problem is the Elmiraj and Ciel were done after this car was pretty much locked in. This car is not new at GM as they have been working on it for a good while. 

I agree this is not a flag ship wow but then again it really is not the flag ship either. I think they improved on the CTS styling and wished they had taken it farther but that is what I expect the present manager will do. The body was done long before they arrived. 

 

I think the new managers will bring out that lacking 10% in the entire car that GM just never would fully go all in on. Mark had to fight too many battles on this car than he should have. #1 this is Cadillac so no corners should be cut. #2 Mark should have been let do what he felt needed to be done. I know he is proud of this car but it is still not 100% of what he was shooting for. 

 

 

 

YEah. I wish people would get off that idea that the ElMiraj should be avail NOW. It shouldn't. Its a styling exercise that will most likely show up next gen.. like the Ciel is evident in the ATS, CTS, and CT6, not to mention the Escalade. The SRX is still apart of the OLD Cadillac language from the Evoque. The ELR and  XTS, come from the Converj.. both of them. Bottom line if they introduced the ElMiraj right now.. in the current line-up.. they would have one mismatched looking car on the lot with several that look nothing like it. That styling exercise needs to come at the same time as new introductions are starting to roll out in mass. I would expect that the styling of the next CTS, ATS will be tweaks on the current design to align them even more with the CT6, Slade and XT5. The ATS, by the way.. may have been the spring-board of all of this, begot from the last gen CTS and STS. Look at that car and U can see that it was designed around the same time as the 2008 CTS. From the rear.. they can easily be confused. The ATS, as many may kno.. was set to debut around the same time as the Second Gen CTS as a replacement for the 9-3 based BLS.. of course BK spoiled that

 

 

@hyperv6 - The Ciel concept was from 2011, the Elmiraj was 2013. I find it hard to believe the timeline excuse of the CT6 design.

 

You guys seemed to lock onto the part about the Ciel and Elmiraj, but my point was "the exterior design is about 10% shy of enough visual drama." Humor me for a second, because I have the perfect example for this. When the production CT6 was first unveiled last year, I wasn't alone in giving it a shrug from an exterior perspective, meanwhile Lincoln unveiled their striking Continental concept based on FWD architecture and got just as much (if not more) attention from the media. It didn't necessarily need to look like the concept, but I don't think anyone expected it to just completely blend into their existing lineup.

 

I am utterly convinced that if the CT6 had the same sort of unapologetic style direction Cadillac had been hinting at, even if just enough to set apart from the CTS, the Lincoln would have been little more than a footnote by comparison. Instead, we've been having direct comparisons of specs and style by the media and enthusiasts.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

 

My ONLY gripe with this car is just that the exterior design is about 10% shy of enough visual drama. I'm obviously a GM guy, especially Chevy and Cadillac, and I guarantee I can't pick this car out from a CTS beyond 50 feet.

 

I've grown to like it more than I did at first, because when it was unveiled, I was HUGELY disappointed not to see cues from the Ciel and Elmiraj. Just because this isn't a "true" flagship, IMO that's not an excuse to give the car a face that could pass for a mild refresh of the car slotted below it.

 

But I digress. I give the exterior a B or B-, but the rest of the car seems to be a straight A student.

 

The problem is the Elmiraj and Ciel were done after this car was pretty much locked in. This car is not new at GM as they have been working on it for a good while. 

I agree this is not a flag ship wow but then again it really is not the flag ship either. I think they improved on the CTS styling and wished they had taken it farther but that is what I expect the present manager will do. The body was done long before they arrived. 

 

I think the new managers will bring out that lacking 10% in the entire car that GM just never would fully go all in on. Mark had to fight too many battles on this car than he should have. #1 this is Cadillac so no corners should be cut. #2 Mark should have been let do what he felt needed to be done. I know he is proud of this car but it is still not 100% of what he was shooting for. 

 

 

 

YEah. I wish people would get off that idea that the ElMiraj should be avail NOW. It shouldn't. Its a styling exercise that will most likely show up next gen.. like the Ciel is evident in the ATS, CTS, and CT6, not to mention the Escalade. The SRX is still apart of the OLD Cadillac language from the Evoque. The ELR and  XTS, come from the Converj.. both of them. Bottom line if they introduced the ElMiraj right now.. in the current line-up.. they would have one mismatched looking car on the lot with several that look nothing like it. That styling exercise needs to come at the same time as new introductions are starting to roll out in mass. I would expect that the styling of the next CTS, ATS will be tweaks on the current design to align them even more with the CT6, Slade and XT5. The ATS, by the way.. may have been the spring-board of all of this, begot from the last gen CTS and STS. Look at that car and U can see that it was designed around the same time as the 2008 CTS. From the rear.. they can easily be confused. The ATS, as many may kno.. was set to debut around the same time as the Second Gen CTS as a replacement for the 9-3 based BLS.. of course BK spoiled that

 

 

@hyperv6 - The Ciel concept was from 2011, the Elmiraj was 2013. I find it hard to believe the timeline excuse of the CT6 design.

 

You guys seemed to lock onto the part about the Ciel and Elmiraj, but my point was "the exterior design is about 10% shy of enough visual drama." Humor me for a second, because I have the perfect example for this. When the production CT6 was first unveiled last year, I wasn't alone in giving it a shrug from an exterior perspective, meanwhile Lincoln unveiled their striking Continental concept based on FWD architecture and got just as much (if not more) attention from the media. It didn't necessarily need to look like the concept, but I don't think anyone expected it to just completely blend into their existing lineup.

 

I am utterly convinced that if the CT6 had the same sort of unapologetic style direction Cadillac had been hinting at, even if just enough to set apart from the CTS, the Lincoln would have been little more than a footnote by comparison. Instead, we've been having direct comparisons of specs and style by the media and enthusiasts.

 

 

 

 

If directed somewhat at me.. there was no excuse. I think the CT6 is effin gorgeous.. versus the Continental.. much better looking, concept of production. To me the Continental looks like a wanna be Bentley in concept form and a wanna be Taurus in production.. neither, IMO, anything great in terms of design. The CT6 reminiscing the CTS is super-fine to me.. as I deem it as being the best looking Mid-Size on the market.. furthermore the connection to the CIEL is not only evident, but true. Altho the CIEL concept debuted at Pebble Beach in Aug of 2011, the look and design came from a few years earlier.. I can remember posting on MTForum or Carfanatics back in 08-09 about the look into Cadillac's design studio:

 

The Ciel.. was in those pics long before Pebble Beach.. as U can see it on the top shelf. The future design of the Ciel is also seen in the Escalade concept that never came out on the show circuit. Plenty of its design elements are evident in the current Escalade. If U wanna see even more evidence.. check out or Google Cadillac Ecojet Concept

 

 

 

[cp-the-nerd]

Casa, your personal opinion of the CT6 and Continental doesn't negate the fact that the comparisons DID happen and more than a few people shared my sentiment of being underwhelmed. I'm not trying to convince you to change your opinion.

 

The CT6 is a great car, BUT if the luke warm reception of the initial unveiling is any indication, it's not going to solve Cadillac's downward trend of sedan sales in a market dominated by demand for crossovers. A poor reception of this car could actually cancel a true flagship above it.

[oldshurst442]

 

I'm flip flopping with this issue.

 

Although I dont have a problem with it like I did earlier, Im still bewildered at the fact that Cadillac could have made that trim and airbag colour choice a better one, base trim level or not.

 

Cadillac, to me, should give NOBODY ANY reason to criticize ANYTHING!

 

There WILL be detractors no matter what...no matter how trivial a black plastic trim might be....

 

I understand that Reuss had a big fight over door handles...and this is a car that Ellinghaus and JDN had almost no control over as this car was already done by the time they were in charge....but going forward, trivial stuff like this needs to be eliminated.

 

Lexus, correct me if Im wrong, went over and beyond with these types of details while undermining their price tags on their vehicles for a good 15 years...sweating out the details...

 

THIS is an area where Im sure JDN understands very well. Im positive of the future for Cadillac in that regard.

 

Hyper mentions the move to NYC.

I also believe the move to NYC was because corporate still does not understand the importance of the little details.

 

 

 

Stop flip-flopping... its evident that Cadillac, in general, could use a bit of "Designo" type capabilities. Customization if U will.. for people who have an issue with certain palette choices. I'm of the opinion that JDN and Associates need to get on that aspect lickiety-split.. as it is a huge profit generator. 

 

 

Second.. Lexus did do its due diligence in "sweating the details," but Lexus was an upstart LUXURY brand.. Cadillac, tho still proving itself as a DESIRABLE brand to Millennials and GenX..has never lost the title of a luxury brand, it did, however, fall from its lofty position as preeminent luxury brand, or Standard of the World. It is looking to reclaim that. Problem is that now, the definition of luxury, or rather the respect of being luxury seems to come from desirability being measured more by sales than the price point people are interested in paying. Cadillac as an overall brand commands a price average that is almost on par with the current leader in luxury, but because its sales have been down, or not on the level of the Benz, BMW, or Lexus.. it is levied a bit of disrespect and second guessing on PRODUCT. As if to say the ATS, for instance, is not a great entry level luxo because its sales are not on par with the 3Series. Up until the 80s.. Cadillac was the leader in luxury hands down. Not Benz, not BMW, not even Rolls held the same capabilities as Cadillac mass selling while still retaining tier one status. They became complacent.. and also decadent, leading them to where they are now. Some wish to blame the Diesel debacle, 4-6-8, or the Cimmaron, but in reality Cadillac's biggest faux pax was not CHANGING to what they are now when they were most relevant. Had Cadillac made the changes they started making with the CTS in 2003, in 1983, or even 1993, they would currently be viewed as a real Benz/BMW competitor, and would still own the American market, and most likely China, with a real presence in Europe too. 

 

Why does Cadillac get such a chance??? Why are they being cheered on so much as they are??? Well.. an example of what I say lies in the past.. recent in fact. This Fleetwood interior, IMO outclassed the SClass and 745's.. in terms of LUXURY, but they had it on SPORT

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously. Which do U see as more luxury.. more rich? Notice the contrasting of the Cadillac?? LOL

 

To the New York Move

 

JDN has recruited proper folk away from the competition and industries that cater to luxury people. It is an absolute necessity. One can not have a luxury brand run by NASCAR people. In other words, the same execs that run/ran Chevy/Holden/Pontiac.. can not run Cadillac. No way.. no how. They new recruits were also most likely also lured in by the attractiveness of rebuilding this storied brand. A Brand that has more automotivefirsts than I can think. Even in skeletal form, Cadillac now shows unbelievable potential. Six vehicles for sale, with only one having a variant (ATS Coupe) and they still manage to NOT be last in the luxury race, with ATPs that top the #1 selling luxo brand in the U.S., furthermore it managed to sell, just under, a smidge less than Audi, which has DOUBLE its line-up

 

 

Yeah...Ill stop flip flopping. LOL!

 

The customization of interior colours and materials would be a huge and much needed improvement, I agree!

Like you said, not to mention a boost of money in the coffers.

 

But the customization of the interior, I dont want that to happen right now. I want that to happen when they fix the dealership experience...when they perfect their sales staff along with the dealerships themselves. Which JDN has hinted many times that he will be on that fix soon enough. 

 

As for the Cimarron and the V8-6-4 killing Cadillac...

Im with you on that thought. 'Twas not that that killed Cadillac's mojo. The idiots that ran GM and Cadillac at the time did not fully commit to the transformation that they themselves envisioned.

The transformation came before 2003 with the CTS....it came even before 1997 with the Catera. Actually, it came by the way of the late 1980s Allante and the FWD STS Northstar of 1994. They had the 1992 and 1993 STS with that other V8, but the STS was really transformed with the Northstar. 

 

It did not matter if it was FWD. If they had introduced a RWD Euro oriented mid-sizer also in the ealry 1990s, like you said, we wouldnt have this conversation today. And the Fleetwood land yacht  would probably still be here today, and it probably would have been the CT9 about a decade ago...

 

About the the STS. I alwys felt the STS of the 1990s had a better interior of any German car of that same time frame.

But unfortunately, many things conspired against the STS.

One thing that did not help was every single American enthusiast car magazine such as Motor Trend, Road and Track and Car and Driver were drooling idiots over the German brands while self-hatin' on the American cars.  But that is for another conversation.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Casa, your personal opinion of the CT6 and Continental doesn't negate the fact that the comparisons DID happen and more than a few people shared my sentiment of being underwhelmed. I'm not trying to convince you to change your opinion.

 

The CT6 is a great car, BUT if the luke warm reception of the initial unveiling is any indication, it's not going to solve Cadillac's downward trend of sedan sales in a market dominated by demand for crossovers. A poor reception of this car could actually cancel a true flagship above it.

 

 

 

Guy.. look at the majority.. and when I say majority I mean 95% of the reviews.. the CT6's looks are anything but considered to be "underwhelming." The only think I can give anyone who was underwhelmed is that for some crazy reason.. they walked into the situation believing that a production ElMiraj was gonna be on display as the new CT6. Furthermore the visual similarities of the CT6 to the CTS are real.. and would certainly have made even the most enthusiastic Cadillac lover stand up and say.. "Well I've kinda seen that before." But this isn't about just the enthusiasts. Its about the actual BUYERS. The sales situation of the CTS has little to do with looks versus the COMPETITION...  It has to do with what U said.. a turn to CUVs. Not to mention lack of variants versus the previous models. I continue to be blown away when certain individuals act as if the Continental stealing from Bentley.. then Audi.. + Kia and Ford's own Taurus is suddenly the epitome of automotive beauty. Personally.. I find it to be coring as $h!. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Sedan sales were all down last year.

I am hopeful for Cadillac sales improving, but I don't think this sedan will do it.

[hyperv6]

 

 

 

My ONLY gripe with this car is just that the exterior design is about 10% shy of enough visual drama. I'm obviously a GM guy, especially Chevy and Cadillac, and I guarantee I can't pick this car out from a CTS beyond 50 feet.

 

I've grown to like it more than I did at first, because when it was unveiled, I was HUGELY disappointed not to see cues from the Ciel and Elmiraj. Just because this isn't a "true" flagship, IMO that's not an excuse to give the car a face that could pass for a mild refresh of the car slotted below it.

 

But I digress. I give the exterior a B or B-, but the rest of the car seems to be a straight A student.

 

The problem is the Elmiraj and Ciel were done after this car was pretty much locked in. This car is not new at GM as they have been working on it for a good while. 

I agree this is not a flag ship wow but then again it really is not the flag ship either. I think they improved on the CTS styling and wished they had taken it farther but that is what I expect the present manager will do. The body was done long before they arrived. 

 

I think the new managers will bring out that lacking 10% in the entire car that GM just never would fully go all in on. Mark had to fight too many battles on this car than he should have. #1 this is Cadillac so no corners should be cut. #2 Mark should have been let do what he felt needed to be done. I know he is proud of this car but it is still not 100% of what he was shooting for. 

 

 

 

YEah. I wish people would get off that idea that the ElMiraj should be avail NOW. It shouldn't. Its a styling exercise that will most likely show up next gen.. like the Ciel is evident in the ATS, CTS, and CT6, not to mention the Escalade. The SRX is still apart of the OLD Cadillac language from the Evoque. The ELR and  XTS, come from the Converj.. both of them. Bottom line if they introduced the ElMiraj right now.. in the current line-up.. they would have one mismatched looking car on the lot with several that look nothing like it. That styling exercise needs to come at the same time as new introductions are starting to roll out in mass. I would expect that the styling of the next CTS, ATS will be tweaks on the current design to align them even more with the CT6, Slade and XT5. The ATS, by the way.. may have been the spring-board of all of this, begot from the last gen CTS and STS. Look at that car and U can see that it was designed around the same time as the 2008 CTS. From the rear.. they can easily be confused. The ATS, as many may kno.. was set to debut around the same time as the Second Gen CTS as a replacement for the 9-3 based BLS.. of course BK spoiled that

 

 

@hyperv6 - The Ciel concept was from 2011, the Elmiraj was 2013. I find it hard to believe the timeline excuse of the CT6 design.

 

You guys seemed to lock onto the part about the Ciel and Elmiraj, but my point was "the exterior design is about 10% shy of enough visual drama." Humor me for a second, because I have the perfect example for this. When the production CT6 was first unveiled last year, I wasn't alone in giving it a shrug from an exterior perspective, meanwhile Lincoln unveiled their striking Continental concept based on FWD architecture and got just as much (if not more) attention from the media. It didn't necessarily need to look like the concept, but I don't think anyone expected it to just completely blend into their existing lineup.

 

I am utterly convinced that if the CT6 had the same sort of unapologetic style direction Cadillac had been hinting at, even if just enough to set apart from the CTS, the Lincoln would have been little more than a footnote by comparison. Instead, we've been having direct comparisons of specs and style by the media and enthusiasts.

 

 

The fact is it was a styling concept so it was not production. Then you add in how many Cadillac division manager since the first concept. I think they have had more managers than the Browns have had coaches. 

As it was when Mark Reuss was directing the CT6 several years ago he of all people was getting some push back on just what the car should have been. Cadillac was still in house and still was not jail broken. 

I think you will see a major change coming in the new models done under the new management. That is why there is a pause as everything they were working on was stopped and changed. 

As for Lincoln it is a nice car but I do not find it anymore stimulating than the CT6. It is nice but not drop dead amazing. Lincoln got a lot of attention as they were expected to die. This car is one that is expected to bring them back to life and they can build from there. But Ford still has not fully commeted yet like GM as to Cadillac with the money they really need. Till they get some freedom like Cadillac has gotten they will be lacking in what they offer. Ford needs to understand it is ok to trickle down from Lincoln but not to push it up from Ford. While Ford makes a good car they need to remember you can dumb down a car much better than try to prop it up. I think the new Camaro is a perfect example. Things were done to Alpha at Cadillac that Chevy would not have been able to do. 

Also from a Marketing standpoint it hurts to sell a top car with the same engine you sell in your value leader. It sends a bad message unless it is remade into its own tune. While the V series cars have a great engine Cadillac still has the stigma that this is the same engine in a Chevy. While some may not care many paying right at $100K do. 

Kind of like putting the same steering wheel from my HHR SS in the ZR1. It was cool for me but not so much for the guy who payed $125K for the ZR1.

[hyperv6]

Sedan sales were all down last year.

I am hopeful for Cadillac sales improving, but I don't think this sedan will do it.

 

Sedans sales will remain flat. The SUV models at Lincoln and Cadillac will provide volume and the sedans will make it on profit. Cadillac is in a place they do not have to sell a ton of sedans anymore. The price point here carry's them to high profits and the volume in China takes care of the rest, 

 

Lincoln will not sell a ton of sedans but they too will do fine on profit. They will sell these at twice the price of the average Fusion and they do not really cost close to that to build. That is why everyone is looking to this segment and why those inside Ford were able to save Lincoln. There is just too much profit per unit to give up here. Unless you are Chrysler and you discount the 300 to the price of a mid size car. It is really sad how mismanaged FCA is. They could and should be making a killing on the 300 if they would update it with a new platform and added technology. Yet they let it wither on the vine. They have mismanaged the 200 and Dart now they think leaving the segment is a good idea? Just plain nuts. 

[smk4565]

Sedan sales dropped 2% in 2015, while trucks/crossovers went up 12%.  The market is moving toward 60/40 split of trucks/cars.   Luckily for others FCA seems to be bailing on sedans, that leaves those sales for the other guys that stay committed to it.

[Suaviloquent]

 

Casa, your personal opinion of the CT6 and Continental doesn't negate the fact that the comparisons DID happen and more than a few people shared my sentiment of being underwhelmed. I'm not trying to convince you to change your opinion.

 

The CT6 is a great car, BUT if the luke warm reception of the initial unveiling is any indication, it's not going to solve Cadillac's downward trend of sedan sales in a market dominated by demand for crossovers. A poor reception of this car could actually cancel a true flagship above it.

 

 

 

Guy.. look at the majority.. and when I say majority I mean 95% of the reviews.. the CT6's looks are anything but considered to be "underwhelming." The only think I can give anyone who was underwhelmed is that for some crazy reason.. they walked into the situation believing that a production ElMiraj was gonna be on display as the new CT6. Furthermore the visual similarities of the CT6 to the CTS are real.. and would certainly have made even the most enthusiastic Cadillac lover stand up and say.. "Well I've kinda seen that before." But this isn't about just the enthusiasts. Its about the actual BUYERS. The sales situation of the CTS has little to do with looks versus the COMPETITION...  It has to do with what U said.. a turn to CUVs. Not to mention lack of variants versus the previous models. I continue to be blown away when certain individuals act as if the Continental stealing from Bentley.. then Audi.. + Kia and Ford's own Taurus is suddenly the epitome of automotive beauty. Personally.. I find it to be coring as $h!. 

 

 

The Continental is probably going to outsell the CT6, and I bet it's targeted more towards the Chinese buyer. The difference is that in the dystopian automotive world of China, due to lack of local assembly capacity... the Continental will be exported from Flat Rock to China and since it is an import, it'll be quite bit more expensive there than here. I like that. You can have American luxury, as long as it's from America.

 

And the people of the oreint will pay that price, because the car looks pretty damn good too.

 

Look, I like the XTS, and the Continental will blow that thing out of the water. I'd still buy the CT6 over the Conti. But I'll readily admit, I expect the Conti to be more comfortable, I expect its rear seat to have a better execution of amenities and I expect the Lincoln dealer service to be nicer.

 

But damn the Continental knows what it's about - the car exudes wealth and luxury. I love the styling of the car. Way more than I thought I would. And as per Drew, I'm certainly going to compare the car to the CT6. And I like the interior refinements more.

 

The CT6 is just an flagship-sized sports sedan competing against the boat-like flagships. The only selling point is the excellent light-weighting and market penetration pricing model. Everything else is to the flagship buyer preferences. I bet people will buy the CT6 more just because it is a big car, not because it drives like a smaller car.

 

In the minds of the unconvinced - you can spend more and get nicer interiors. You can spend more and gets V8 right now. And then you can turn over to the subsidized leases and realize it's not that much more to get the spendy badge. And those are all valid reasons to not give a damn about the CT6, because all of the above statements are true at some level.

 

And yet I can give constructive criticism, not get brand-washed, and still consider the CT6 the best car I would want right now.

[smk4565]

The only way the Continental will outsell the CT6 is if the Continental is $39,995 starting price.  If they price the Continental even with the CT6, or even close, the CT6 will outsell it. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

The only way the Continental will outsell the CT6 is if the Continental is $39,995 starting price.  If they price the Continental even with the CT6, or even close, the CT6 will outsell it. 

 

 

To actual luxo buyers anyway. For  once U and I agree. The Cont SHOULD outsell the CT6.. because its not going to be priced.. unless Ford is insane, at the  price point above the $40K. If It is,. well Ford is officially insane and completely delusional about the power of nostalgia. The Continental I remember for most of my adult life.. was nothing more than a "nicer Taurus/Sable"

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

The Continental is probably going to outsell the CT6, and I bet it's targeted more towards the Chinese buyer. The difference is that in the dystopian automotive world of China, due to lack of local assembly capacity... the Continental will be exported from Flat Rock to China and since it is an import, it'll be quite bit more expensive there than here. I like that. You can have American luxury, as long as it's from America.

 

And the people of the oreint will pay that price, because the car looks pretty damn good too.

 

Look, I like the XTS, and the Continental will blow that thing out of the water. I'd still buy the CT6 over the Conti. But I'll readily admit, I expect the Conti to be more comfortable, I expect its rear seat to have a better execution of amenities and I expect the Lincoln dealer service to be nicer.

 

But damn the Continental knows what it's about - the car exudes wealth and luxury. I love the styling of the car. Way more than I thought I would. And as per Drew, I'm certainly going to compare the car to the CT6. And I like the interior refinements more.

 

The CT6 is just an flagship-sized sports sedan competing against the boat-like flagships. The only selling point is the excellent light-weighting and market penetration pricing model. Everything else is to the flagship buyer preferences. I bet people will buy the CT6 more just because it is a big car, not because it drives like a smaller car.

 

In the minds of the unconvinced - you can spend more and get nicer interiors. You can spend more and gets V8 right now. And then you can turn over to the subsidized leases and realize it's not that much more to get the spendy badge. And those are all valid reasons to not give a damn about the CT6, because all of the above statements are true at some level.

 

And yet I can give constructive criticism, not get brand-washed, and still consider the CT6 the best car I would want right now.

 

 

 

 

Waaiiiit.. What??? LMFAO... 

 

"The CT6 is just an flagship-sized sports sedan competing against the boat-like flagships. The only selling point is the excellent light-weighting and market penetration pricing model."    

 

 

"I expect the Conti to be more comfortable, I expect its rear seat to have a better execution of amenities and I expect the Lincoln dealer service to be nicer.

 

But damn the Continental knows what it's about - the car exudes wealth and luxury."

 

 

 ridiculous without actually experiencing both cars. I won't make a comment outside of that.. 

[Suaviloquent]

They've hinted at around $45,000. That's about what I would expect to start. Acura's RLX starts there. The XTS starts there. One of the former is crap. The other was good when it came out, and is now going away within a few years.

 

A black label would top out at $70,000 maybe.

 

But again, I think the market for such a large sedan is smaller here anyways than the bigger fish in China. And I expect the Continental to have a much smaller break-even point or as I shall say higher contribution margin ratio.

 

So they won't need oodles of sales to recoup their investment. And the car is compelling. But of course the only time we could see Mercedes and Cadillac guys to agree is when they both think alike.

 

I'll say it. Both the CT6 and Continental surprised me. Not so much as to which is better, but more as just how they both approach the same problem so differently.

 

At the autoshow I'll have my mind fully set. 

 

Ideally, I would actually get both. 

[Suaviloquent]

 

 

The Continental is probably going to outsell the CT6, and I bet it's targeted more towards the Chinese buyer. The difference is that in the dystopian automotive world of China, due to lack of local assembly capacity... the Continental will be exported from Flat Rock to China and since it is an import, it'll be quite bit more expensive there than here. I like that. You can have American luxury, as long as it's from America.

 

And the people of the oreint will pay that price, because the car looks pretty damn good too.

 

Look, I like the XTS, and the Continental will blow that thing out of the water. I'd still buy the CT6 over the Conti. But I'll readily admit, I expect the Conti to be more comfortable, I expect its rear seat to have a better execution of amenities and I expect the Lincoln dealer service to be nicer.

 

But damn the Continental knows what it's about - the car exudes wealth and luxury. I love the styling of the car. Way more than I thought I would. And as per Drew, I'm certainly going to compare the car to the CT6. And I like the interior refinements more.

 

The CT6 is just an flagship-sized sports sedan competing against the boat-like flagships. The only selling point is the excellent light-weighting and market penetration pricing model. Everything else is to the flagship buyer preferences. I bet people will buy the CT6 more just because it is a big car, not because it drives like a smaller car.

 

In the minds of the unconvinced - you can spend more and get nicer interiors. You can spend more and gets V8 right now. And then you can turn over to the subsidized leases and realize it's not that much more to get the spendy badge. And those are all valid reasons to not give a damn about the CT6, because all of the above statements are true at some level.

 

And yet I can give constructive criticism, not get brand-washed, and still consider the CT6 the best car I would want right now.

 

 

 

 

Waaiiiit.. What??? LMFAO... 

 

"The CT6 is just an flagship-sized sports sedan competing against the boat-like flagships. The only selling point is the excellent light-weighting and market penetration pricing model."    

 

 

"I expect the Conti to be more comfortable, I expect its rear seat to have a better execution of amenities and I expect the Lincoln dealer service to be nicer.

 

But damn the Continental knows what it's about - the car exudes wealth and luxury."

 

 

 ridiculous without actually experiencing both cars. I won't make a comment outside of that.. and I've been avoiding a back and forth with U because of some of your over the top BS.. but this had to be brought up.

 

Actually the selling point is the excellent chassis...like every mag has said.

 

And the great value. All of which has been iterated in the media publications.

 

The rest is subjective. Even Motortrend said it. The Cadillac car just can't wear a roundel as good as a 7 Series. (Which speaks volumes about buying decisions rather than product itself).

 

And then the rest if of course, expectation. Expectation can't be ridiculous. And I do think it will be reasonable to expect the Continental to have a ride closer to the Mercedes Magic body control - like on a magic carpet like ride than the CT6 in their respective "comfort modes."

 

But I'm okay with spewing out comments that are bs to you, and you alone, because certainly I have not said for the umpteenth time that I would get the CT6 above all else.

[El Kabong]

I was told that the Lincoln Continental would start, in FWD trim, at the $50,000 mark.

We now know that the Cadillac CT6 will start, in RWD trim, at $54,500.

That 4,500 dollar difference is more than made up in the Caddy's chassis tech ALONE. A 3,650 pound luxury yacht? Are you kidding me? And it goes on sale in five weeks, as opposed to the Continental, which will arrive late this year.

The Cadillac reviews have been massively good. Only Automobile (which groused about minor switchgear) and Road & Track (which wanted it to be a Miata) were offside. And the China debate at this point is almost laughable. Does anyone really expect a start-up brand (in a slumping economy, no less) to stand a chance against established competition that is serious enough to make a China-primary plug in hybrid version?

A while back I caught flak for saying "too little too late for Lincoln." But darned if the CT6 isn't fully prepared to make my words come true.

[regfootball]

Conti looks like Hyundai restyled an Equus to look like a Bentley, CT6 looks the part of a Cadillac and will be more successful because it looks like what you would think a Cadillac may look like. Conti reminds me of off brand stereo equipment.  CT6 looks like a Cadillac even if its not a drop dead stunner.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

Waaiiiit.. What??? LMFAO... 

 

"The CT6 is just an flagship-sized sports sedan competing against the boat-like flagships. The only selling point is the excellent light-weighting and market penetration pricing model."    

 

 

"I expect the Conti to be more comfortable, I expect its rear seat to have a better execution of amenities and I expect the Lincoln dealer service to be nicer.

 

But damn the Continental knows what it's about - the car exudes wealth and luxury."

 

 

 ridiculous without actually experiencing both cars. I won't make a comment outside of that.. and I've been avoiding a back and forth with U because of some of your over the top BS.. but this had to be brought up.

 

Actually the selling point is the excellent chassis...like every mag has said.

 

And the great value. All of which has been iterated in the media publications.

 

The rest is subjective. Even Motortrend said it. The Cadillac car just can't wear a roundel as good as a 7 Series. (Which speaks volumes about buying decisions rather than product itself).

 

And then the rest if of course, expectation. Expectation can't be ridiculous. And I do think it will be reasonable to expect the Continental to have a ride closer to the Mercedes Magic body control - like on a magic carpet like ride than the CT6 in their respective "comfort modes."

 

But I'm okay with spewing out comments that are bs to you, and you alone, because certainly I have not said for the umpteenth time that I would get the CT6 above all else.

 

 

 

As always U miss points.. coming up with your own narrative on what U read.. or didn't. 

 

Each magazine with the exception of Motor Trend.. the King of caring about 0-60 times... went over the luxurious aspects of the car..

 

The CT6 offers more luxury than any Caddy before. The cabin breaks little new ground yet checks the right boxes in terms of ample front and rear stretch-out room, luxurious materials including glossy or open-pore wood trim, and harmonious design. The gently curved, horizontally oriented dashboard represents a departure from current Cadillac dash designs, and we approve. Front passengers get cozy in elegantly contoured chairs that may be Cadillac’s most comfortable ever. The electronic instruments are clear and colorful, if occasionally crowded, such as when text-heavy menus or the Night Vision display gobbles up space. Infotainment functions are once again handled by an updated version of the Cadillac User Experience (CUE) system, which now uses a larger 10.2-inch touchscreen as well as a console-mounted touchpad. We didn’t notice too many groundbreaking software or logic tweaks during our drive, but we already like the touchpad. C&D

 

The New York Daily, Autoblog, Autobyte, the TLF Video, the MOTORMAN video( I didn't link) , the Cnet Articles... all go into detail on the luxurious appointments of the interior.. yet U missed it. Glossed over them panting like pup and the magnificence of the driving attributes.. Sounds like a  ONE TRACK MIND CAR ENTHUSIAST to me. 

 

And again.. in reference to the:

 

Suaviloquent, on 28 Jan 2016 - 10:38 PM, said: "Even Motortrend said it. The Cadillac car just can't wear a roundel as good as a 7 Series."

 

 

Jesus CHRIST!!! Did U even bother to read what they actually said.. or were U looking strictly for negatives? 

 

They said.. as a DIG at BMW fans.. a joke.. that went waaaaaaaaaaaaaay over your head:

 

 

But luxury goods (and cars in general) are rarely traded on merit alone. Mercedes fans will say the S-Class is better at feeling more substantial and heavier (read: luxurious) on the road than the CT6. Audi fans will say the A8 is better at using a proportionally greater amount of aluminum in its construction. BMW fans will say the 7 Series is better at wearing a Roundel badge.

 

That comment.. was construed by most as MT beaming Bimmer fans in the head for only liking their BMWs for the emblem.. and not much else. Which I personally believe is true considering how many people I kno who have the "World's Ultimate Driving Machine," but drive them like they are effin Corollas.. don't even kno what engine they have in the things. Not the name of the engine.. or even size.. but whether its a V6, I6, V8, Turbo, 4Cyl. I actually had a guy in a 2015 M3.. tell me how much he loved the power of the V8 in his car. 

 

as to the ride.. While it apparently is no floaty boat, its been said in many of those articles that ride was very nice.. and only firm when in the SPORT setting. 

 

The rest of what U say isn't worth my time. Go back and re-read the articles.. and get a feel for what this car is actually about. The CT6 is certainly capable of canyon carving.. but apparently Cadillac did throw a whole buncha luxury in there as well.  

[Cmicasa the Great]

Conti looks like Hyundai restyled an Equus to look like a Bentley, CT6 looks the part of a Cadillac and will be more successful because it looks like what you would think a Cadillac may look like. Conti reminds me of off brand stereo equipment.  CT6 looks like a Cadillac even if its not a drop dead stunner.

 

 

This.. I'm not calling the car ugly.. its not.. but I see nothing compelling about it in terms of luxury or even looks. I actually think I preferred the FIRST MKS.. when it debuted...  over this new Continental in terms of looks. 

[ccap41]

They've hinted at around $45,000. That's about what I would expect to start. Acura's RLX starts there. The XTS starts there. One of the former is crap. The other was good when it came out, and is now going away within a few years.

 

A black label would top out at $70,000 maybe.

 

But again, I think the market for such a large sedan is smaller here anyways than the bigger fish in China. And I expect the Continental to have a much smaller break-even point or as I shall say higher contribution margin ratio.

 

So they won't need oodles of sales to recoup their investment. And the car is compelling. But of course the only time we could see Mercedes and Cadillac guys to agree is when they both think alike.

 

I'll say it. Both the CT6 and Continental surprised me. Not so much as to which is better, but more as just how they both approach the same problem so differently.

 

At the autoshow I'll have my mind fully set. 

 

Ideally, I would actually get both. 

 

That is one of my favorite lines I've read on the cars so far. Both targeting the larger luxury car market and yet their philosophies are completely different. Sporty vs. Boaty. Neither is right, neither is wrong, imo. 

Edited January 29, 2016 by ccap41