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William Maley

Mercedez Benz News Rumorpile: Mercedes-Benz Plans Four New EVs By 2020

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*Quicker....not faster as of yet. Besides, even though there are some rare stories of the Z06 going into limp mode....the Tesla will ALWAYS go into limp mode on a track.

 

When the EV incentives go away, a much harder battle between ICE and BEV will be fought. Agree with Balth, though I see a point where both cars become very substitutable.

 

There will be a lot of redundancy.Maybe gas stations will also be the charging stations?

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Eventually though electric will overtake gas cars, just like self driving cars will become common.

Won't happen in our lifetimes.

 

Sure it will.  Take a car like the Corvette Z06, fastest car….

Were you referencing SALES as usual, or just performance?

Excuse me if I erroneously assumed it was your Prime Directive : SALES.

 

We've had 15+ years of hybrids and they're still only 3% of vehicle sales. Pure electrics are behind hybrids, and while it's possible they will surpass them, they have monstrous uphill public perception battle to gain 51% of vehicle sales. 

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In twenty, thirty years they can perhaps be like 25% of the market. Maybe that's too generous.

 

Unless Trump becomes president, those CAFE goals will come and come down hard.

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*Quicker....not faster as of yet. Besides, even though there are some rare stories of the Z06 going into limp mode....the Tesla will ALWAYS go into limp mode on a track.

 

When the EV incentives go away, a much harder battle between ICE and BEV will be fought. Agree with Balth, though I see a point where both cars become very substitutable.

 

There will be a lot of redundancy.Maybe gas stations will also be the charging stations?

What happens when batteries get cheap?  And a Tesla Model S that does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds costs about $55,000, and you could have that or turbo 4 CTS, 5-series, E-class, etc for the same price.   Time will tell, but I think electric will progress quickly and rapidly, and the gas engine won't be able to keep up.

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Eventually though electric will overtake gas cars, just like self driving cars will become common.

Won't happen in our lifetimes.

 

Sure it will.  Take a car like the Corvette Z06, fastest car….

Were you referencing SALES as usual, or just performance?

Excuse me if I erroneously assumed it was your Prime Directive : SALES.

 

We've had 15+ years of hybrids and they're still only 3% of vehicle sales. Pure electrics are behind hybrids, and while it's possible they will surpass them, they have monstrous uphill public perception battle to gain 51% of vehicle sales. 

 

0-60 time, a Tesla Model S will beat a Corvette Z06.  The Tesla Model X crossover can beat a CTS-V or Charger Hellcat in a 1/4 mile.  11.7 second 1/4 mile in a 7 passenger SUV.  That is what electric can do.  

 

Top Gear USA did a drag race of a Model S, Hellcat and CTS-V, for the 1/4 mile the supercharged V8s were flat out embarrassed, only after the Tesla hit its top speed of 150 mph did the Hellcat eventually pass it because on the mile runway it got to 170 mph.

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I'm surprised hybrids are only 3% of sales...I see so many Priuses on the roads...

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Batteries cannot get incredibly cheaper. Inflation taken into account,you can get better batteries over time. But the problem is not really capacity in kwh or range or the configuration of cells or even the chemistry. The problem is that batteries degrade quickly when driven in high performance situations for extended periods of time and/or when they are recharged and depleted a lot very quickly.  There is no maintenance that can fix that as of now, and in ICE cars the similar issue is wearing out the engine oil, but those are now extended service cycles, and replacing the oil early is always an option. Another side issue is that batteries are heavy as well. 

 

A battery that is depleted needs a warranty against it to cover that happening. And I'm not saying that batteries can't get cheap. But their component materials and sub-assemblies have a theoretical limit in production capacity due to a lack of raw materials. With current technology, we sure as hell don't have as much lithium as there is oil in this world. In fact, Lithium prices are steadily rising, rationalizing production will also have to offset increasing production costs.

 

And there's the whole issue of infrastructure. Tesla, while incredible in what they have done towards that, you need nations all over the world to finally get the will, the gut to do it. And the world is so over leveraged that BEVs, no matter how superior face a steeper challenge whenever oil prices go down, or cars become radically more efficient.

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• But no one buys a $90K Model S to drag race a Corvette- that's not the motivation at all. And there's a lot more to ANY vehicle sale than 0-60 times.

 

• Tho I couldn't find this 3-way test (Model S/ Hellcat/ CTS-V) online, obviously the CTS-V ALSO ran away from the Model S, since it likewise has a 200 MPH top speed vs. the S's 155.

 

• If for ONE SECOND you think Tesla is going to drop the price of the Model S P90D LM from $118K down to $55K to sit right on top of the Model 3 in price, you're nuts.

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• If for ONE SECOND you think Tesla is going to drop the price of the Model S P90D LM from $118K down to $55K to sit right on top of the Model 3 in price, you're nuts.

That would make no sense..isn't the base Model S like $75-80k now?

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• But no one buys a $90K Model S to drag race a Corvette- that's not the motivation at all. And there's a lot more to ANY vehicle sale than 0-60 times.

 

• Tho I couldn't find this 3-way test (Model S/ Hellcat/ CTS-V) online, obviously the CTS-V ALSO ran away from the Model S, since it likewise has a 200 MPH top speed vs. the S's 155.

 

• If for ONE SECOND you think Tesla is going to drop the price of the Model S P90D LM from $118K down to $55K to sit right on top of the Model 3 in price, you're nuts.

The CTS-V never caught the Model S in the 3 way race, the runway wasn't long enough.  

 

I did find videos of the Model S blowing away the E63 and Nissan GT-R as well.    This is why Mercedes knows they need an electric car, the E63 was beat and how much faster can they make it with a V8?  They know part of the AMG equation after 2020 is electric power, whether is is pure EV or a hybrid.

 

I don't think the P90D will get cut in half any time soon, but in 10 years maybe a Model S P85 that can do 0-60 in 3.5 is $60k.  Maybe not, but batteries will get cheaper, gasoline engines are getting more expensive.  

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Well, we know now that that performance EVs can deliver on being quick? Can they deliver on being fast though? And as consistently as ICE powered cars? That'll be a big hurdle, and I don't see how Mercedes can solve that on its own.

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The E63 S does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds, an 11.6 second 1/4 mile at 121.8 mph.   Stops form 60 mph in 106 feet, which is 6 better than a CTS-V.

 

CTS-V does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and 11.6 seconds 1/4 mile at 126 mph, so it would pull ahead after the 1/4 mile with the higher speed.

 

A Tesla Model S can do 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and a 11.2 second 1/4 mile.

 

The current E-class is in its 7th model year too, so I am curious to see what they do with the new one.  I don't think it will be faster, but it should handle better as the current car is overly heavy.


Well, we know now that that performance EVs can deliver on being quick? Can they deliver on being fast though? And as consistently as ICE powered cars? That'll be a big hurdle, and I don't see how Mercedes can solve that on its own.

Hard to find a place where you can drive above 150 mph.  I'd rather have a car that is quick at speeds under 75 mph that is more usable, top end speed you can't even use on a race track, unless there is like a 2 mile straight away.

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I'd call that being practical.... Then again, I personally still disdain EVs.

 

Anyways. EVs are still heavily incentivized, and the cheap leases won't last forever. Automakers will have to figure out a way to make money on these cars on their own without using the conventional cars to keep them afloat.

 

That is the true challenge. Take away the wow features available in a Tesla. Take away incentives (which do go away pretty soon for anyone mfg that has volume EV sales goals). Create a full cost recovery taxation model which pays for the Interstate, and not some other fuel levies that pay for stuff totally unrelated to vehicle usage....raise the price of energy to promote conservation.....and on top of that applications of minor electrification such as hybridization that can achieve decent mpg, say like 70 perhaps for a car costing $30,000....then the electric car becomes just another car fighting for it's life, with obscure benefits, since low priced EV's will not be rockets.

 

And that is what will make or break the electric car. 

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I'm surprised hybrids are only 3% of sales...I see so many Priuses on the roads...

Seen elsewhere : in 2015 hybrids and pure electrics together were a screaming 0.66 % of the market. Even if we rounded up to a heady 1%, everybody is buzzing & clucking over 1 percent of the market. Guess what IS at 1% of the market? Convertibles. 

 

'Electric cars are going to surpass gas/diesels in 10 years'. Uh huh; sure. 

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In 40-50 years with the roads crumbling, and the world toxic and polluted, misery everywhere, I'm pretty sure cars of all type will be either reserved for the elite or banned altogether.

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^ What movie is that?

Was that not Solent Green? ;)

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On 5/25/2016 at 8:04 PM, balthazar said:

WHy not just offer EV options for the existing lines, instead of bringing out 4 MORE additional models??

If slotting between the C & E, the sedans would HAVE to be dubbed 'D-class' now that MB has supposedly gotten their naming system in order.

Too many models !!

Agree on too many models!

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On 6/2/2016 at 11:35 PM, Suaviloquent said:

In 40-50 years with the roads crumbling, and the world toxic and polluted, misery everywhere, I'm pretty sure cars of all type will be either reserved for the elite or banned altogether.

I am not that dystopian.  Do hope the car as a form of personal transportation survive.

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Very cool, to read this on the MB EV concept auto. 

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110498_british-magazine-gets-ride-in-all-electric-mercedes-eq-concept

Clearly a very different way to drive and how to send power to just front or just rear wheels.

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