Cmicasa the Great

Cadillac ATS to Get up to $1000 Price cut and ATS 2.5L is Dead for '17

49 posts in this topic

 

 

Prices will be reduced between $650 and $1,100, depending on the trim level. And each model will get more content than it did before. For example, Cadillac is eliminating the base 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine, leaving the 2.0-liter turbocharged four-banger as the standard engine, and the 3.6-liter V-6 as the top engine. Starting with the '17 model year, buyers of a 2.0-liter turbo with some popular add-ons, such as a Bose surround-sound audio system, will pay about the same price as the 2.5-liter sedan with those same features cost in the '16 model year.

The goal is to give customers more value without resorting to the sort of fire-sale incentives that have hurt the ATS in the past, says Cadillac's global product planning director, Hampden Tener. It also spotlights the ATS' 2.0-liter engine, which is rated at 272 hp, more powerful than the 2.0-liter turbos offered in the BMW 328i and Mercedes C class.

"We want to emphasize the 2.0-liter turbo and the car's features while attacking the market on the product side, rather than using increased incentives," he told Automotive News.

Making the 2.0-liter turbo the standard engine boosts the ATS' base price by about $1,500, to $35,590 including shipping. That's above the base price of the 3 series. The 2.5-liter accounted for more than 20 percent of sales.

But Tener believes that dangling greater value at each trim level will spur demand. And reducing the number of model and engine configurations to seven, from 16, will make it easier for dealers to stock the most popular combinations.

The ATS' sales woes in part reflect a four-year hangover from a poor launch strategy. Analysts and dealers say Cadillac priced the cars too high and overproduced them in the first two years. Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen and his team have been struggling to right the ATS ever since, including dramatically reducing inventories and cutting back on incentives.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This will be interesting to see how it goes over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This will be interesting to see how it goes over.

 

 

I KINDA called the engine change back in the "ATS 8Speed" thread earlier, altho I figured that the 2.0L would be come the base in 2018 as the CT3

 

 

 

ATS (CT3) will have be, most likely, the same size in exterior dimensions but magically have lighter weight, and a bigger interior. Styling will take on the more fluid design of El Miraj and Ciel mixed. BET!!! The engines.. considering Cadillac is seemingly going forced induction.. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2.0L and 3.0L are the main engines, but the 3.6L may still be a middle man. I would expect the 3.0L may actually get a detune to take its place tho.. say about 360HP and the continued use of the LF4 for the VSeries but obviously more power.  CMICASATHEGREATXvX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really will make things a bit less confusing.. on top of that.. ATS WITH NO SINGLE PIPE.. YES!!! The 2.0L is now going to be at high end ofthe spectrum in terms of power in the segment. Also remember that the fuel econ of the 2.5L is almost identical to that of the 2.0L Turbo despite the 2.0L having 70 more HP and 100lbs more of torque

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would power matter for the new base engine/removal of the 2.5? We all know what's what. The competition from Germany chronically underrate their engines.

 

And I figure enthusiast buyers of the competition, also know that.

 

Aside from that, this choice makes a lot of sense. I figure the SUB-ATS model will have a 1.5L turbo engine standard, and the 2.0T as the uplevel option. 

 

Now I think they should for the CTS refresh have the LF4 as the VSport engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would power matter for the new base engine/removal of the 2.5? We all know what's what. The competition from Germany chronically underrate their engines.

 

And I figure enthusiast buyers of the competition, also know that.

 

I agree that Enthusiast buyers will know the power of the engines, but most BMW / MB badge snobs will not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This makes a lot of sense, and I was saying 3 years ago they should drop the 2.5 liter and make the 2.0T the base engine.  Putting more equipment and better powertrain in the car was what they should have done all along.  

 

I actually think Cadillac should drop the 3.6 V6 over the next 2 years and make the 3.0 TT as their mid-level engine, even if they have to dial back the power a little bit to 370 hp to improve refinement.  The 3.6 V6 is just useless when it comes to torque compared to the German sixes and the Jaguar V6.  Cadillac should be striving toward an all turbo lineup by 2018.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2.5 was 20% of sales?  i would have thought it would be more like 10%.  

 

They had better get a new 2.0t in the pipeline, one that is more refined.

 

smk's bit about making the tt3.0 the midlevel has some merit.  The Jaguar XE goes right to the 340hp v6 as the step up engine option.

 

A lot of Cadillac's traditional customers might still not want a turbo though.  They could put the new 3.6 in there to satisfy those.

 

ATS'st flaw right now is probably the cheap interior.  And lack of space is probably what has killed sales the most of anything, however they can't fix that until they totally redo the car.  If they at least totally updated the interior that could spur a sales uptick.

 

I would recommend Cadillac not burn the time on a smaller vehicle unless they think it would sell in other markets.  make the ATS you have now more space efficient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This makes a lot of sense, and I was saying 3 years ago they should drop the 2.5 liter and make the 2.0T the base engine.  Putting more equipment and better powertrain in the car was what they should have done all along.  

 

I actually think Cadillac should drop the 3.6 V6 over the next 2 years and make the 3.0 TT as their mid-level engine, even if they have to dial back the power a little bit to 370 hp to improve refinement.  The 3.6 V6 is just useless when it comes to torque compared to the German sixes and the Jaguar V6.  Cadillac should be striving toward an all turbo lineup by 2018.

Marketing might think they need to follow everyone with turbo this, turbo that, but GM is more than capable of building a high quality long life NA DI V6 or V8 that would fit the bill running on regular gas or going the Hybrid or EV route.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Cadillac 3.6 V6 is about 60 lb-ft of torque and 3,500 rpm away from where it needs to be.  A Cadillac V6 should make 340 lb-ft at 2,000 rpm.

 

Jaguar has 340 and 380 hp V6s that are in the 330-340 lb-ft range, BMW's engine is under rated at 320 or 330 lb-ft, whatever they claim, the Mercedes V6 is 350ish hp and torque, Audi is in that range too now.  You want a V6 with mid to high 300s in horsepower and torque now.

 

I'd like to see Cadillac pair that turbo V6 with a hybrid system.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A Cadillac V6 should make 340 lb-ft at 2,000 rpm.

Cadillac's OTHER V6 makes 404 HP & 400 TRQ.

 

Right, that is why I said the 3.0 twin turbo should be the step up engine from the 2.0T.    The Turbo V6 has already been criticized for refinement though, so they might have to work on that part of it.  The Infiniti Q50 has a 400 hp V6 for under $50k, the ATS should have the 3.0TT for $47,900, throw it in the CTS for $55,000.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No; you said

A Cadillac V6 should make 340 lb-ft

and a Cadillac V6 makes 400 lb-ft.

If you are going to make blanket proclamations, expect to get called out.

 

Here's a proclamation of my own :: "If mercedes wants to convince people it's 'the best', their V6 should make at least 425 lb-ft of torque."

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the LGX V6 is looking more and more like an oddball. It's a totally nice engine...but it is lacking the oomph that the boosted sixes provide in the first upgrade powertrain choice of competing brands, and Cadillac has the engine to replace in the cards.

 

I think the LGX should be relegated to use by Buick, GMC and Chevy... 

 

But it's hard to imagine them keeping the 3.0TT a Cadillac exclusive for too long, or even an exclusive for the CT6 at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking all Cadillac V6s should have at least 340 lb-ft, but I didn't really state that well.  My main point was the ATS and CTS mid-level engine should be the twin turbo V6.  If they want to let the CT6 have some seperation they could detune the ATS and CTS 3.0TT's down to 375 hp or so.  The 400 hp TT V6 isn't doing Cadillac any good only being offered in one car though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking all Cadillac V6s should have at least 340 lb-ft, but I didn't really state that well.  My main point was the ATS and CTS mid-level engine should be the twin turbo V6.  If they want to let the CT6 have some seperation they could detune the ATS and CTS 3.0TT's down to 375 hp or so.  The 400 hp TT V6 isn't doing Cadillac any good only being offered in one car though.

When you say mid level are you talking about 4 engines in the ATS? 2.0T, 3.0TT, X?, 3.6TT? We know the n/a 3.6 cannot be above the 3.0TT but everybody keeps saying "mid-level" engine.. well that's kind of tricky when there are 4 engines offered. 

 

Or are you saying it should be 2.0T, n/a 3.6, 3.0TT, 3.6TT? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With various Turbo options, you could have Twin Turbo V6 across the whole GM family!

 

Just make sure the newest and best in the Cadillac Family always first!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 400 hp TT V6 isn't doing Cadillac any good only being offered in one car though.

Except the part where it exceeds so many of it's competitors.

 

And give the engine a chance to see expanded usage - it only debuted a few months ago. 

Edited by balthazar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to see...

 

ATS:  2.0T, 3.0 TT V6, 3.6TT V6

CTS:  2.0T, 3.0TT, 3.6 TT (ATS-V 460 hp version), 6.2 sc V8

CT6:  2.0T, 3.0TT V6

 

That is what I'd do for gas engines, until they have a turbo DOHC V8 then that would go to CT6 and replace the CTS-V 6.2 liter.

 

Of course there would be plug-in hybrids options on all 3 cars with the 2.0T, that would work in the XT5 also.  I'd like to see a 3.0TT V6 plug-in on the CT6 and Escalade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That is what I'd do for gas engines, until they have a turbo DOHC V8 then that would go to CT6 and replace the CTS-V 6.2 liter.

 

I didn't forget the 4.2 V8, but it isn't available right now. My lineup they could do right now. When the 4.2 V8 arrives for sure that goes to CT6, I'd put it in the Escalade and ATS-V also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I'd like to see" implies a future scenario. 4.2TT is in the works; it's on the way.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the 2.0T dropped from the CT6; there should be some sort of engine hierarchy as you move up. As opposed to audi, which offers a VW 2.0L in the A3, A4, A5, A6.

In addition to the 4.2TT V8 in the CT6, I would like to see the pros & cons of ALSO offering the 6.2SC V8 there also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish the CT6 had the V8 at launch, I'd be all for them dropping the gas only 2.0T in the CT6, and making the 2.0T plug-in hybrid the base engine, and go to the turbo v6 and v8 from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.