Industry News: German Automakers In A Panic Over Possible Diesel Ban

[William Maley]

Another wave of fallout from the Volkswagen diesel emission scandal could be coming later this week in a German court. Reuters reports that Germany’s federal administrative court will be ruling whether or not local governments could ban diesel vehicles. 

Environmental group DUH sued the Stuttgart and Duesseldorf governments for over levels of diesel particulate matter exceeding European Union limits after Volkswagen admitted to cheating on emission tests. Local courts ordered the governments to ban diesel vehicles that don't conform to current EU standards on days when pollution is bad. The two states where a number of automakers and suppliers reside appealed the decision to the federal administrative court.

This move could cause serious damage to German automakers as it would cause a fall in resale values and overall sales. Investment Evercore ESI forecasts a five percent drop in diesel residual values, resulting in a loss of 1.6 billion Euros (about $2 billion) in operating profit "across eight European and U.S. carmakers."

Source: Reuters

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[David]

Totally support this, the automakers should be held accountable and feel the wrath of the courts for putting profits over the health of humans. Day of Diesel for everyday basic auto use is over, they just need to accept this and move onto regular gas for now as they work to get out their Hybrids and EVs.

[smk4565]

I am fine with this, it it pollutes then you could ban them, but most Opel, Ford, Hyundai, Puegot, Citroen, Renault, Nissan cars in Europe are diesel.  So you are hurting French, Japanese, British, Italian, American car companies too. 

[riviera74]

Environmentalists should be suing governments for pushing diesel over all alternatives.  VW is NOT innocent, but the EU also needs to be held accountable.

[ocnblu]

This ban should not stand.  The diesel engine has been around just about as long as electric, yet it remains far easier to own for the vast majority of people, worldwide.

[David]

38 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

This ban should not stand.  The diesel engine has been around just about as long as electric, yet it remains far easier to own for the vast majority of people, worldwide.

Have to disagree with you. Diesel is the more expensive power plant worldwide and is not easier for people to own. When the diesel needs repairs, many end up sitting in yards or junked as people cannot afford to repair them. 

Yes GOV pushed them, but they were not the better choice just a cheaper choice at the time based on GOV subsidies for diesel and misconception. Truth is out on the damage Diesel can do to the planet and the health of people in dense inner cities. 

Time for Change, the one thing that Scares the Hell out of you.

 

[balthazar]

Diesel is a mixed bag.

On one hand (in trucks) they are quite expensive as an option.  On the other, they get 75% better mileage in the same truck, and go much farther without repairs/maintenance. In that latter respect, they are easier to own.  In trucks they make all the sense in the world, and trucks are 50%+ of the U.S. market.

In cars, I never really saw the benefit.

[ocnblu]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Diesel is a mixed bag.

On one hand (in trucks) they are quite expensive as an option.  On the other, they get 75% better mileage in the same truck, and go much farther without repairs/maintenance. In that latter respect, they are easier to own.  In trucks they make all the sense in the world, and trucks are 50%+ of the U.S. market.

In cars, I never really saw the benefit.

VW diesel owners routinely get 400+ k miles out of their TDI powered cars... and no gasoline VW gets 46-50 MPG.  Why tether yourself to a cord when you can drive where ever you want without care in a diesel and use just over half the fuel of a gasoline counterpart?  No brainer.

[balthazar]

OK- so why would one care about MPG? Only 2 reasons I can see- 'envoronmental' and financial. TDi gets better MPG than the same-size gas motor, but costs more to buy. 2015 Jetta TDi was 25% higher in base MSRP- that might be 4 or more years of driving before the TDI 'broke even' with the 2.0 gas motor. I did the math on the Dodge Ram diesel vs. gas 6, and it was working out to be like 19 years to break even, but truck diesels are massively higher priced than the car diesels.

[David]

10 hours ago, ocnblu said:

VW diesel owners routinely get 400+ k miles out of their TDI powered cars... and no gasoline VW gets 46-50 MPG.  Why tether yourself to a cord when you can drive where ever you want without care in a diesel and use just over half the fuel of a gasoline counterpart?  No brainer.

Face the math, unless your a traveling sales person or someone who loves road trips to the point that you do really drive 20,000 miles plus a year, Diesel is a money looser not a saver in cars. Especially in the average 3yr ownership lifespan before trading in.

Even then, those that do hold onto their auto's 10 plus years are still challenged to break even as balthazar states.

The whole point is gas / hybrid / ev's make considerable more sense than diesel in a car. 

Trucks / full size SUV's where one pulls trailers and cargo, Diesel totally makes sense.

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, dfelt said:

When the diesel needs repairs, many end up sitting in yards or junked as people cannot afford to repair them. 

Have anything to prove this? 

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

In cars, I never really saw the benefit.

Crazy real-world fuel economy. Those TDIs(which were cheating the system..) were getting 50+mpg pretty easily. 

[balthazar]

Saw this elsewhere, did not fact check it. Is it an update to the situation?

"A German court has ruled that diesel cars produced before September 2015 can be banned from the road. Some articles state the bans could start in September. European countries for years have advocated for diesel cars because they use less fuel, but now they are going the other direction back to gasoline cars.
Man, it would suck to have a three year old car and now you have to go buy a different car plus your three year old car is worthless. How many cars are going to go back to the bank because owners quit paying on them?"

A outright ban in months would make (100s of thousands?) of vehicles worth pennies overnight. An incredible hardship on the private owner...

Edited February 27, 2018 by balthazar

[FAPTurbo]

diesel’s the new lead, and just as we got rid of leaded fuel, we’ll get rid of diesel.

diesel’s mileage advantage has been eliminated with new gas and hybrid vehicles anyway

[Zane Wylder]

Leave diesel alone already, it's a better alternative fuel source than the current EV/Hybrid crap out there as it is

Only thing getting worse coverage is Trump on all the libtard stations

[David]

On 2/19/2018 at 7:02 PM, ocnblu said:

VW diesel owners routinely get 400+ k miles out of their TDI powered cars... and no gasoline VW gets 46-50 MPG.  Why tether yourself to a cord when you can drive where ever you want without care in a diesel and use just over half the fuel of a gasoline counterpart?  No brainer.

VW Is rolling coal polluting garbage. I have not seen a single VW that does not heavily pollute out the tailpipe.

Time for Diesel cars to die, Hybrid is far superior without all the pollution that heavily contributes to ACID RAIN and many other health detriments. 

Germany has some of the most dead forest around due to their heavy acid rain that is killing everything. Even Germany has admitted that Diesel is hurting their country, people, etc.

[Drew Dowdell]

On 2/19/2018 at 6:56 PM, ocnblu said:

This ban should not stand.  The diesel engine has been around just about as long as electric, yet it remains far easier to own for the vast majority of people, worldwide.

EVs require less maintenance, are cheaper to fuel, and require fewer stops just to keep them running.. (i.e. you don't have to stop to fill up as part of your normal routine, you just plug it in at night and start every morning with a fresh, full "tank")

[ocnblu]

Pollyanna!  Short trips to mailbox much?  LOL N00b!  And dfelt needs to sh!t or get off the pot!  He drives YUGE American bruisers while extolling the false virtues of golf carts with white dashes!

Edited May 20, 2018 by ocnblu

[Drew Dowdell]

7 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Pollyanna!  Short trips to mailbox much?  LOL N00b!  And dfelt needs to sh!t or get off the pot!  He drives YUGE American bruisers while extolling the false virtues of golf carts with white dashes!

I can like a power train without liking the rest of the car. 

[ocnblu]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

I can like a power train without liking the rest of the car. 

Well then, what's stopping you... and dfelt?  The color of the dash is the SILLIEST excuse for not buying a car I've ever heard!  If they are so great... the tiniest of details should NEVER be a dealbreaker.  This is why I laugh.

[Drew Dowdell]

6 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Well then, what's stopping you... and dfelt?  The color of the dash is the SILLIEST excuse for not buying a car I've ever heard!  If they are so great... the tiniest of details should NEVER be a dealbreaker.  This is why I laugh.

It's not the white dash for me, I kinda like it. I don't like the look of the car, I don't like how spartan the interior is. I'm used to driving Buicks, Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles, and LTZ Chevys. I already said if they put the power train in a Regal or Lacrosse I'd be there. I already have an auto trader search for a CT6 PHEV and Fusion Energi Platinums 2017 or newer. No one makes a pure EV that I like.

I'm ready to put my money where my mouth is as soon as someone produces the vehicle the way I want it. I waited 5 months for the color and equipment combo we got in the Encore. I'm a patient man when it comes to buying things the way I want them.

[David]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Well then, what's stopping you... and dfelt?  The color of the dash is the SILLIEST excuse for not buying a car I've ever heard!  If they are so great... the tiniest of details should NEVER be a dealbreaker.  This is why I laugh.

As Drew has stated to you Ocnblu and I have also, we have partners / spouses that also have a say and we respect. Like Drew, I am a patient man and will wait for the right style and interior color combo that makes the wife happy and gives me the powertrain I am wanting.

Money is ready, just need the right product to buy. It has not been for a lack of trying that I have wanted to change to a daily driving EV.