Chrysler News: FCA Pooling Fleet with Tesla in EU for Emissions Requirements

[Drew Dowdell]

FCA is paying Tesla hundreds of millions of dollar to pool their vehicles with Tesla to avoid EU fines over emissions. Tesla put out an invitation to other automakers to use its fleet to lower their emissions totals and FCA took them up on it.  Neither company released financial specifics of the deal, but it is estimated by the Financial Times to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.  

Similar to California which allows manufactures with a surplus of ZEV credits to sell them to manufacturers who need them, the EU Commission allows manufacturers to pool together their fleets to avoid paying fines. Tesla makes significant money selling these credits in the US, earning $103.4m in 2018 and $279.7m in 2017. Once set up, the pool in Europe is good for several years.

Vehicles in 2018 are allowed an average CO2 emission of 120.5g per kilometer. That figure will drop to 95g per kilometer next year.  FCA's average for 2018 was 123g per kilometer, one of the largest off the mark of the 13 major manufacturers. FCA is seen to have fallen to near the back of the pack when in comes to reigning in CO2 emissions.

FCA was forecast to be facing fines exceeding €2 billion ($2.25 billion) without pooling with Tesla. 

 

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[G. David Felt]

This tells me that FCA products sold in Europe are far more destructive to the environment than here in the US with the Hellcat. So Fiat, Alfa, Maserati, Ferrari all must pollute way worse than they state. Makes one rethink why would you want such a polluting noisy Ferrari?

[ykX]

39 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Makes one rethink why would you want such a polluting noisy Ferrari?

LOL

Sometimes @dfelt you are something.  What do you mean why would you want a Ferrari? As opposing to what, Tesla, Bolt?  

Noisy?  Ferrari engines have one of the most beautiful sounds in the industry.

Anyway, most this type of cars get to be driven very little to make a difference,  Probably Fiats and Jeeps are the majority of FCA vehicles in Europe, and I doubt they have higher emissions than the rest of European manufacturers.  It just the standards are strict and getting stricter so it makes sense financially to buy credits from Tesla, than to pay fines.

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, ykX said:

LOL

Sometimes @dfelt you are something.  What do you mean why would you want a Ferrari? As opposing to what, Tesla, Bolt?  

Noisy?  Ferrari engines have one of the most beautiful sounds in the industry.

Anyway, most this type of cars get to be driven very little to make a difference,  Probably Fiats and Jeeps are the majority of FCA vehicles in Europe, and I doubt they have higher emissions than the rest of European manufacturers.  It just the standards are strict and getting stricter so it makes sense financially to buy credits from Tesla, than to pay fines.

That's the point.. they do have higher emissions per mile... their engines, particularly their diesels, aren't as clean as those from other manufacturers. 

GM would probably have been on that list also, but they mostly pulled out of Europe.  Peugeot was even upset and wanted a refund from GM because their cars were that much further behind in emissions ratings.  Peugeot is hard at work replacing GM engines in the Opel lineup with PSA ones. 

Then there is the issue that a Jeep, just due to its shape, isn't going to be as efficient per mile as an equally powered wagon or hatch. That's a big reason why Europe will be getting the Compass PHEV and Renegade PHEV while we don't. 

But you're right, it is cheaper for FCA to pool with Tesla than it is for them to pay the fine. 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ykX said:

LOL

Sometimes @dfelt you are something.  What do you mean why would you want a Ferrari? As opposing to what, Tesla, Bolt?  

Noisy?  Ferrari engines have one of the most beautiful sounds in the industry.

I would take a Tesla or Bolt over Ferrari. My PERSONAL preference. Ferrari is over rated and that engine that you says makes a beautiful sound, NOPE, Corvette has a better deeper sound than the over rated V12 Ferrari engine. High Pitch Cracking that is ear piercing from Ferrari I put into the same bucket of garbage as all of Harley Davidson bikes excluding the awesome LiveWire.

Since I play Trumpet and Piano, I guess my ear is just more accustomed to a tuned sound than loud noise.

[ccap41]

I don't think I've ever heard somebody dislike the flat plane crank V8 of a Ferrari. But, if there was going to be one it would of course come from a full on EV fanboy... ironically driving two of the least efficient vehicles on the road... 

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think I've ever heard somebody dislike the flat plane crank V8 of a Ferrari. But, if there was going to be one it would of course come from a full on EV fanboy... ironically driving two of the least efficient vehicles on the road... 

Like I said...

You do nothing but try to pick fights with people...

You are a troll...

Why dont you contribute to the phoquing thread instead of trying to be an internet social warrior?

Who the phoque cares what Dfelt says about Ferrari?

Your first contribution to this thread is to try to stick it to DFELT.

Have a conversation with him. But NO!  You want to stick it to him!

What are you gonna do?

Get @Drew Dowdell to make me stop harassing you? 

PHOQUE YOU!

Downvote this post to if you wanna. I dont care.

But Im gonnna expose your troll ass today though! 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

[ykX]

15 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I would take a Tesla or Bolt over Ferrari. My PERSONAL preference. Ferrari is over rated and that engine that you says makes a beautiful sound, NOPE, Corvette has a better deeper sound than the over rated V12 Ferrari engine. High Pitch Cracking that is ear piercing from Ferrari I put into the same bucket of garbage as all of Harley Davidson bikes excluding the awesome LiveWire.

Since I play Trumpet and Piano, I guess my ear is just more accustomed to a tuned sound than loud noise.

Personal opinion is personal, but even if you read Corvette forums, a lot of owners themselves dislike the Vette engine sound.  

[G. David Felt]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think I've ever heard somebody dislike the flat plane crank V8 of a Ferrari. But, if there was going to be one it would of course come from a full on EV fanboy... ironically driving two of the least efficient vehicles on the road... 

I have from day one always said the DOHC High Horsepower low torque engines put into the ultra pricey toys from Italy were garbage and even the move by all auto companies to that form of engine over a traditional pushrod V8 are still garbage.

We have discussed how GM has built many excellent engines that had plenty of torque to get you moving and up to speed yet had them destroyed by TROLL Auto magazines as it did not match the Asian or European DOHC engine garbage.

Maybe the high pitch sound does not bother you, but to me, it is unrefined, noisy and not impressive to have 600HP / 3XX LB-TQ. compared to a solid 400 hp / 410 lb-ft of torque V8 with a proper tuned exhaust so you have a nice deep mellow but distinct sound..

I agree to disagree with you on the Tone of one auto over another as this is the preference we both like. I am happy for you that you like the Italian auto's, for me, I will stick with my Tuned American V8 on a Borla OEM Exhaust for my TB till I get the full size Truck / SUV EV.  

[oldshurst442]

No @Drew Dowdell

I wont let it go!

The Mexico thread really ticked me off with @ccap41's fake , trolly,   righteousness.

And here he goes again doing the same shyte! 

You knew Drew, you banned me for a week for being less abusive to @Paolino last year than what @ccap41 is doing here today with TWO posters...me and @dfelt.

Send him a phoquing message to STOP trolling! 

 

 

[ccap41]

11 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I have from day one always said the DOHC High Horsepower low torque engines put into the ultra pricey toys from Italy were garbage and even the move by all auto companies to that form of engine over a traditional pushrod V8 are still garbage.

We have discussed how GM has built many excellent engines that had plenty of torque to get you moving and up to speed yet had them destroyed by TROLL Auto magazines as it did not match the Asian or European DOHC engine garbage.

Maybe the high pitch sound does not bother you, but to me, it is unrefined, noisy and not impressive to have 600HP / 3XX LB-TQ. compared to a solid 400 hp / 410 lb-ft of torque V8 with a proper tuned exhaust so you have a nice deep mellow but distinct sound..

I agree to disagree with you on the Tone of one auto over another as this is the preference we both like. I am happy for you that you like the Italian auto's, for me, I will stick with my Tuned American V8 on a Borla OEM Exhaust for my TB till I get the full size Truck / SUV EV.  

Definitely agree to disagree and I think the application make a huge difference to me. A strictly track-like toy is a fantastic place for a high revving engine as you rarely spend any time in the bottom of the rev range anyway but if it was a daily driver or just a cruiser, I would absolutely prefer the low end of a push rod or larger displacement engine. 

Also, too much instant torque can overwhelm the tires pulling out of a corner. A high revver with little bottom end actually has an advantage doing certain things. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Add me to the list of people who don't find a flat plane V8 sounding attractive.  It may not have as much power or rev as high, but an LT1 or Hemi at full tilt still sounds like my ideal regardless of the actual numbers.

[ccap41]

I don't necessarily think they are perfect but they do always tend to sound pretty great. 

[G. David Felt]

Some parts of this discussion made me think of this song.

 

[Robert Hall]

20 hours ago, ykX said:

 

Anyway, most this type of cars get to be driven very little to make a difference,  Probably Fiats and Jeeps are the majority of FCA vehicles in Europe, and I doubt they have higher emissions than the rest of European manufacturers. .

Jeeps are mostly diesels in Europe also...that is probably the big issue.   Anyway, this seems like a very strange approach to meeting emissions standards. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Robert Hall

[Drew Dowdell]

36 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Jeeps are mostly diesels in Europe also...that is probably the big issue.   Anyway, this seems like a very strange approach to meeting emissions standards. 

What is strange about it? It's the same thing in concept as buying/selling emissions credits in California. 

[ykX]

41 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Jeeps are mostly diesels in Europe also...that is probably the big issue.   Anyway, this seems like a very strange approach to meeting emissions standards. 

Most of the cars are diesels in the Europe.  I guess the Fiats and Jeeps are more polluting than others.

[Robert Hall]

15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

What is strange about it? It's the same thing in concept as buying/selling emissions credits in California. 

Which is also strange and fake, IMO.  Credits are just artificial nonsense in lieu of building cleaner products.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

Some one has to use the Tesla emission credits since they do not need them, might as well make some money on it. Good business sense here. Keeps us in the Hellcat game while also supporting green tech auto's.