Cadillac News: 2020 Cadillac CT6 Makes Big Price Moves

[dwightlooi]

I only buy White or Silver cars; colors which are usually not hard to find.

[smk4565]

22 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

You should check out this smoking deal on a 2016 E-Class. 

 

2018 Infiniti Q70 sells for that price and cost E-class money new.   2016 CTS's are in the $22-25k range, all luxury sedans depreciate because they aren't crossovers.   Let's be honest you could price an S-class, CT6, 7-series or anything else dollar for dollar even with a Toyota RAV4 and the RAV4 would outsell it just because it is a crossover.  You give people the choice between a $30k RAV4 and a $30k brand new Rolls Royce and they will buy the RAV4 out of fear that the oil change on a Phantom costs more than on a Toyota.

[dwightlooi]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

2018 Infiniti Q70 sells for that price and cost E-class money new.   2016 CTS's are in the $22-25k range, all luxury sedans depreciate because they aren't crossovers.   Let's be honest you could price an S-class, CT6, 7-series or anything else dollar for dollar even with a Toyota RAV4 and the RAV4 would outsell it just because it is a crossover.  You give people the choice between a $30k RAV4 and a $30k brand new Rolls Royce and they will buy the RAV4 out of fear that the oil change on a Phantom costs more than on a Toyota.

That is great because I ONLY buy used and I ONLY buy sedans. Depreciation is great because once somebody else eats the first 3 years, I don't care how much it depreciates. I already saved 40 grand up front.

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

2018 Infiniti Q70 sells for that price and cost E-class money new.   2016 CTS's are in the $22-25k range, all luxury sedans depreciate because they aren't crossovers.   Let's be honest you could price an S-class, CT6, 7-series or anything else dollar for dollar even with a Toyota RAV4 and the RAV4 would outsell it just because it is a crossover.  You give people the choice between a $30k RAV4 and a $30k brand new Rolls Royce and they will buy the RAV4 out of fear that the oil change on a Phantom costs more than on a Toyota.

Way to completely miss the point. The point being that all luxury cars, from Infiniti to Cadillac to Mercedes, have $h! resale value. Just though you may have missed the fact the Benz suffers the same devaluation fate as the rest of them. For the record, the Q sells for 3,000 less than the E Class while offering a V6 standard (with 100 more HP) as opposed to a 241 HP turbo 4. Just sayin’

Edited June 20, 2019 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

20 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Way to completely miss the point. The point being that all luxury cars, from Infiniti to Cadillac to Mercedes, have $h! resale value. Just though you may have missed the fact the Benz suffers the same devaluation fate as the rest of them. For the record, the Q sells for 3,000 less than the E Class while offering a V6 standard (with 100 more HP) as opposed to a 241 HP turbo 4. Just sayin’

They could make a 500 hp V8 standard in the Q70 and the E-class with its 255 hp 4-banger would outsell it.  In fact, I think this will be the last Q70 and Infiniti will just kill it, Lexus will kill the GS.  They can't compete with the E-class. Cadillac is taking the CTS to have CT5 compete with the C-class. BMW is the only brand up to the challenge, this might as well be a 2 car segment in the USA and the Chinese love the Audi A6, which I admit has a very nice interior, perhaps as good as the E, better than the 5.

[dwightlooi]

All luxury brands suffer depreciation greater than more utilitarian brands. But, that is not to say that all Luxury brands suffer the same depreciation. CADILLAC SUFFERS MUCH MORE DEPRECIATION THAN ANY OTHER LUXURY BRAND.

[David]

Current Cadillacs, Infinities and even Lexus will be replaced over time by EV versions. I truly believe that.

Just now, dwightlooi said:

All luxury brands suffer depreciation greater than more utilitarian brands. But, that is not to say that all Luxury brands suffer the same depreciation. CADILLAC SUFFERS MUCH MORE DEPRECIATION THAN ANY OTHER LUXURY BRAND.

Except the Escalade, they hold more value than most other luxury SUVs.

[balthazar]

8 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

All luxury brands suffer depreciation greater than more utilitarian brands. But, that is not to say that all Luxury brands suffer the same depreciation. CADILLAC SUFFERS MUCH MORE DEPRECIATION THAN ANY OTHER LUXURY BRAND.

It's pretty hard to write a check out for 'percentage units'. Mercedes' as a mathematical computation of their generally higher ATPs, cost more in depreciation dollars than the vast majority of cars. You can lose $85,000 in 3 years on some models. 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, dwightlooi said:

All luxury brands suffer depreciation greater than more utilitarian brands. But, that is not to say that all Luxury brands suffer the same depreciation. CADILLAC SUFFERS MUCH MORE DEPRECIATION THAN ANY OTHER LUXURY BRAND.

Part of that reason is the overall  consumer's perception of Cadillac versus...lets say...Lexus.  (Given Cadillac's missteps of the past...haunting Cadillac over and over and over again)

Another reason is the marketing bullshyte that some manufacturer's marketing department spews over and over and over again about depreciation...again...lets say...Lexus...so the overall perception of Lexus versus Cadillac favours Lexus...

A 10 year old daily driven car in Quebec that has over 150 000 miles, no matter what brand and make it is, is worth the same...to me at least...

Because it will have the same rust issues, the same wear and tear on its steering and suspenions due to shytty, pot holed roads...

So...whether you buy a 80 000 dollar Cadillac, Mercedes...or a 20 000 dollar Ford or Honda, or a 40 000 dollar Buick, Volvo...after 10 years daily driven in Montreal, for me at least, will be worth at most 2000 dollars...

That is why I dont look at used cars in Quebec...

Depreciation is great...like you said....

I could get a great deal on a used 3-4 year old Mercedes...

But why would I wanna do that?

I would rather buy a new car...the same price as that 3-4 year old Mercedes...a brand new Ford...

I dont value badges...

I value NEW...

 

[smk4565]

33 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

 CADILLAC SUFFERS MUCH MORE DEPRECIATION THAN ANY OTHER LUXURY BRAND.

More than Lincoln?  Or Maserati?  or Alfa Romeo?  Cadillac I think does better than that group, but I don't really shop used Cadillac prices.

[oldshurst442]

Depreciation when used as how one model or brand devalues faster than another is just marketing bullshyte...

Its what you value...

If you value one brand over another, you pay more for that used car...

Here we are...praising the merits of depreciation so we could buy that used car of our dreams, on the cheap...stretching our dollar value... yet we are praising the lower depreciation values of some brands over others...

ILLOGICAL argument to me...

 

In fact...when there is a trade-in to be made at the stealership...

The stealership...will ALWAYS find problems with your car, no matter WHAT make it is...to DEVALUE your car so they could give you LESS money for it...

Lexus, Cadillac, Chevrolet.....it dont matter...in a trade-in...deprecation means diddly squat.

On a Lexus...the stealership WILL find defects to DEVALUE your beloved, low depreciation LEXUS.

On a Cadillac, it may or may not be a reason....but the same problems that plague the Lexus will be used on your Cadillac to DEVALUE it...

Then,  in turn...you refuse to trade in your LOWER depreciating car as compared to the HIGHER depreciating models, so you sell it privately in hoping you get a sucker to buy into that reliability game so you could get top dollar for your car, which then makes YOU the sleazy salesman...because YOU dont want to be the sucker at the stealership.

Irony...

Its just a game...this brand depreciates faster than that brand...

Its a marketing gimmick...that the Japanese makers have used...

Its a GREAT tool...

But to me...like I said...

A daily driven car over a certain period of time is worth the same as any other daily driven car with the same time elapsed...

I wouldnt want to buy a used 3-4 year old car that was once a high priced vehicle....I would rather buy a NEW car that is "worth" the same...

Because...THAT is it...to me...a used car, may NOT be worth the asking price...depending how maintained it was. How much damage it sustained...

Nobody knows what the original owner did to that car.

Yes...everybody has bought a GREAT used car that was driven by a little old lady driving to church once a week. It was driven ONLY to church and the church happened to  ex-communicate her as well...

And what value to you place on a car like that?

If it was a Lexus?

If it was a Cadillac?

Like I said...its a game...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2019 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

More than Lincoln?  Or Maserati?  or Alfa Romeo?  Cadillac I think does better than that group, but I don't really shop used Cadillac prices.

I think you are correct with that. Cadillac runs mid pack in the depreciation group. Some individual models do hold up better than others (pretty much like that with all makes though). 

[balthazar]

If you buy a brand new car for $100,000 and it retains 50% of it's value in 3 years, that car cost you $50,000 in depreciation.

If you buy a brand new car for $75,000 and it retains 42% of it's value in 3 years, that car cost you $43,500 in depreciation.

Yet some folk will tell you you got a better deal with the 50% residual car.

[dwightlooi]

Depreciation is the aggregation of what everyone in general values. And, yes, you ABSOLUTELY got a better deal with the 50% residual car because it is a 100K car and it cost you 50% of that to own it for three years, whereas the $75K car cost you 58% of its price to own for three years. That is if you buy new of course.

I NEVER buy new, I'll be the guy buying the prestige, luxury, features and/or performance of the $75K car for $31.5 instead of some $31.5K econo sedan with some bull$h! new car smell. And, if I wanted to spend $75K, I'll be buying something that would have cost me $150~160K new. It's not for a lack of money; the socialist scums running for political office say I am the 1%. It's simply a better deal. Smart people by used. Do you know that Trump's 757 was used and all his Sikorsky helos were used?

Nobody in the family buys new. Not cars, not homes, not even laptops, watches, lenses, cameras or anything that depreciates like crazy. OK, we buy FOOD, underwear, toothbrushes and the like new. But that is about it.

Edited June 21, 2019 by dwightlooi

[balthazar]

12 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

Depreciation is the aggregation of what everyone in general values. And, yes, you ABSOLUTELY got a better deal with the 50% residual car because it is a 100K car and it cost you 50% of that to own it for three years, whereas the $75K car cost you 58% of its price to own for three years. 

Read my post again.

[oldshurst442]

7 hours ago, dwightlooi said:

I NEVER buy new, I'll be the guy buying the prestige, luxury, features and/or performance of the $75K

Prestige?

HA HA HA

Not to me...you wont be "prestigious" to me because you bought a used car for 35 000 dollars...

To me...you are a fake... a facade...   smoke and mirrors

Trying to pass a lifestyle that isnt true...   And I could see right through that.

If you choose to try to flaunt your fake high society status on me...

[balthazar]

So if he bought it new & still owned it 3 years later you’d be impressed? Is this a question you commonly ask people you meet?

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Prestige?

HA HA HA

Not to me...you wont be "prestigious" to me because you bought a used car for 35 000 dollars...

To me...you are a fake... a facade...   smoke and mirrors

Trying to pass a lifestyle that isnt true...   And I could see right through that.

If you choose to try to flaunt your fake high society status on me...

BS....CPOs are a great deal....like my Jeep, I got a vehicle that new is over $40k for under $30k 3 years old w/ 25 miles in like new condition.  I'd rather buy a 3yr old SUV w/ V6 than a new FWD 4cyl transverse engine shitbox at the same price. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

I bought my ‘94 F-150 new, but it was low on bells & whistles (300 CI, auto, A/C, 2WD, rubber floor mat; $15K), but I may never buy new again. Wife got a ‘16 last year, she’s completely happy w it.

As prices continue to tick upward, buying new increasingly looks -not prestigious- but financially foolish.

[Robert Hall]

29 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I bought my ‘94 F-150 new, but it was low on bells & whistles (300 CI, auto, A/C, 2WD, rubber floor mat; $15K), but I may never buy new again. Wife got a ‘16 last year, she’s completely happy w it.

As prices continue to tick upward, buying new increasingly looks -not prestigious- but financially foolish.

I don't see myself buying new ever again....I plan to keep my CPO until 10 years or 100k then get another.   

[dwightlooi]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Prestige?

HA HA HA

Not to me...you wont be "prestigious" to me because you bought a used car for 35 000 dollars...

To me...you are a fake... a facade...   smoke and mirrors

Trying to pass a lifestyle that isnt true...   And I could see right through that.

If you choose to try to flaunt your fake high society status on me...

What isn't prestigious, true or real about a luxury car after 3 years? Paying more than twice for those things, however, is real... REALLY DUMB! Who is going sniff for "new car smell" when you drive by? OK, maybe Creepy Joe would, but that's about it.

Edited June 21, 2019 by dwightlooi

[David]

16 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

What isn't prestigious, true or real about a luxury car after 3 years? Paying more than twice for those things, however, is real... REALLY DUMB! Who is going sniff for "new car smell" when you drive by? OK, maybe Creepy Joe would, but that's about it.

[dwightlooi]

14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

This guy looks DUMB AS A ROCK.

[balthazar]

I would not call someone who wants & can afford a new vehicle 'dumb' - it's his money and his choice.
If a brand new vehicle and a 3-yr old vehicle cost exactly the same, most people would take the brand new one, so the appeal is understandable.
However, don't expect me to be impressed that this someone spent x-dollars. I

[Potluck]

So are they still building this or not? the update looks good, it seemed a bit too femm in the first version

[dwightlooi]

1 hour ago, Potluck said:

So are they still building this or not? the update looks good, it seemed a bit too femm in the first version

CT6 production has been extended through Jan 2020 at Detriot-Hammtrack, MI. Beyond that it'll either end or it'll be moved to Lansing, MI. The CT6 will continue to be built in China for the Chinese market. But it is unlikely that GM will import it from China given the Trump administration's 25% tariff and on going trade conflict with China -- that'll be bottomline and PR suicide.

I like the vertical headlights and tail lights of the 2016~2019 CT6. The 2020 restyling added clutter and the Mazda look in front which I don;t care for. The 2020 will also be too new as a candidate to replce my 2014 CTS VSport. I'll probably pull the trigger next year or 2021 at the latest. A 2020 car will only be 1~1.5 year old and wont have depreciated enough. The 2017 Platinum with the 3.0TT, AWD, Panaray and Supercruise will be a candidate though, along with the 2016 CTS-V, C63, E63, RS4 and RS6. The Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio 2.9TT is tempting, but seems supremely unreliable.

[oldshurst442]

@dwightlooi

The thing is...in Quebec...cars dont last long...

In sunny California...cars last 20 years...in makes sense to act like a big shot in sunny California buying a 4-5-6 year old Bimmer, at a discount...and keeping that Bimmer another 10 years...

In cold frigid, icy and slushy Quebec, cars last barely a decade.

If taken good care of...15 years tops. But daily driven, at 8 years, they look like shyte. At 10 years, they are called beaters and at 15 years they are simply dinosaurs...

So...

Call me dumb if you want to...

Because I told you I was from Quebec...little bells should have been going off.

But then again...in sunny California...I gather...

Its the Hollywood effect.

You look mahvelous....its better to look good than to feel good. I fully comprehend that. 

 

But like I said...THAT dont impress me much...

 

Let me ask you a question...

Is your reduced priced Bimmer of whatever years old it is...

Is it in perfect driving condition?  Even living in sunny California, maintenance NEEDS to be made...

Or are you like my idiot friends driving around in purty 6-7 year old Bimmers and Audis but the tail lights are burnt because they dont know how to change the light bulbs themselves and they deem the Bimmer or Audi dealership tooo bloody expensive so they leave the tail lights burnt?

About that...

Do you go to Pep boys to do your oil changes because the Bimmer dealership is expensive or do you change your own oils?

But how much of a rich diva are you if you change your own oils on a 5-6-7 year old Bimmer...

I know...I know...

Depreciation and you saved mucho dineros buying a used Bimmer.

Yet maybe too phoquen cheap to get your oils changed at the Beverley Hills Bimmer dealership where they even give you a shampooing for your  PAUL MITCHELL haircut and a free latte...

In my world...

You wanna BE the rich guy...

You better be plunking down the money for the rich guy stuff.

Meaning,  you better have the cash flow necessary to do it day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade...

If not...GTFO with your fake ass life!!!

 

 

[oldshurst442]

I dont make fum of hot rodders.

If fact...I love the fact that REAL hot rodders wrench on their own vehicles...

I dont judge if a wrench monkey changes his own oils on his 2020 Mercedes Benz S Class AMG...because a wrench monkey is an ENTHUSIAST.

A person that tries to pass off as a rich guy to me buying used luxury vehicles is just a lame assed fake.

I dont buy that depreciation excuse.

Like I said...

A used 40 000 dollar Bimmer, even if I lived in sunny California means NOTHING to me.

Id rather a BRAND NEW FORD FUSION SPORT at that price.

Or...a BRAND NEW 20 thousand dollar eco boosted 4 cylinder Fusion for daily driven usages and a USED 20 000 dollar V8 FORD Mustang to complete my enthusiast side of things. But I buy used for ME...not to show somebody else something that I am not.

Or a BRAND NEW V8 CHALLENGER at 40 000 dollars to do both... 

Be my guest...but that used Bimmer...but you aint fooling me...

Especially if your used Bimmer is not in 100% perfect condition and your tali lights are burnt and you try to convince me you are good with money and you are some sort of high priced diva.

 

[Robert Hall]

8 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

I dont buy that depreciation excuse.

 

Bullshit..it's a bad investment to buy new, a depreciated 3 yr old vehicle with 25k is a much better purchase.   I don't buy your Quebec argument either--are people too lazy there to keep their cars clean?   We got a lot of salt and bad weather here in Cleveland also, yes cars are worn out here after 10 years also if you don't take care of them...but you can have a daily driver look great here if you keep it washed and get the salt off.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Robert Hall

[dwightlooi]

Go buy a new car and lose lots of money then. It's a free country -- even Canada is in this regard. We need people like you to buy new so we have used cars to benefit from.

I'll never buy new. If I have a billion dollars, that 2014 Boeing 787-9 with 20,000 flight hours will look pretty good especially if it has GEnx engines that was just overhauled.

[oldshurst442]

On 6/18/2019 at 9:12 PM, dwightlooi said:

That's a little different though because a home is NOT generally a depreciating asset. In fact, some people believed it to be an infinitely appreciating asset. That is why I know people who spend $8,000 of their $9,000 take home income on the mortgage, drive a 1985 Camry, sleep on a used mattress, sit on the floor, shop at Goodwill and eat cup noodles every day.

@Robert Hall

You dont like that truth...

And its OK...

But..

That is reality...

I said...in this thread...that its smart to buy a used vehicle in today's world...

But...dont act like a diva with me...

You are not a diva JUST because you bought an OLD luxury car...

Quote

 

Meaning,  you better have the cash flow necessary to do it day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade...

If not...GTFO with your fake ass life!!!

 

 

I will ALWAYS stand by that quote...

Downvote this to if you want to...

But in today's world...this new social media thing...

Sleeping on matresses and eating noodles...living the life...

Yeah...THAT is what I call living la vida loca...

 

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

@Robert Hall

You dont like that truth...

 

Well, it's not my truth, so I really couldn't care less what you think.

7 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

You are not a diva JUST because you bought an OLD luxury car... 

I'd rather buy a used clean luxury car or SUV than a new 4cyl FWD shitbox w/ a CVT and despair gray interior. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

Go buy a new car and lose lots of money then. It's a free country -- even Canada is in this regard. We need people like you to buy new so we have used cars to benefit from.

I'll never buy new. If I have a billion dollars, that 2014 Boeing 787-9 with 20,000 flight hours will look pretty good especially if it has GEnx engines that was just overhauled.

I KEEP my cars...

I run them to the ground...

And even if I dont...

I ABSORB the deprecation...

The thing is...

I dont sleep on a matress and I certainly dont eat wet from water but dry from nothing else on them noodles.

You do you....

I do me.

Problem is...I am not impressed by your material things...

In sunny California....shiny objects makes your world go round. Not in mine. 

 

[oldshurst442]

26 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Bull$h!..it's a bad investment to buy new, a depreciated 3 yr old vehicle with 25k is a much better purchase.   I don't buy your Quebec argument either--are people too lazy there to keep their cars clean?   We got a lot of salt and bad weather here in Cleveland also, yes cars are worn out here after 10 years also if you don't take care of them...but you can have a daily driver look great here if you keep it washed and get the salt off.

1. It aint a better purchase.

You said it yourself...people are lazy to do maintenance.

How good in shape is that 3 year old vehicle?

Even if leased and the dealership forced maintenance on it....

How many fees were paid by the lessee for lack of maintenance and how much money did the dealership spend in making that car good for the used car purchase to the other idiot that will buy the used vehicle?

Listen...Any argument could be made for or against...

To say that buying new is not a viable option and calling me dumb...loooking at you @dwightlooi and you downvoting me is just childish...

I stated the reasons why I dont get impressed...

The people trying to act rich when they are not...when buying used luxury vehicles...

If I touched a nerve there...not my problem...(not saying you are that kind of person...to either @dwightlooi or to @Robert Hall)

But they way both of you are acting...its as if you guys like to try to pass off as people you are not...

Not my problem....

But yeah...in Quebec, cars dont last long...

Its the rust belt....

I gather any car in the rust belt dont last long...

Take that as you will...

But you will not see too many 10 year or older cars on our roads...and its not solely on lazy upkeep...

Its a valid point and reason...but it aint the whole story.  There are 6-7 million Quebeckers. 

Yes...we are a lazy bunch not cleaning the salt and winter grime on our cars...

But since forever, cars here dont last long. Surely its got to be because of our inclement weather and NOT just because we are 6-7 million lazy bastards...and like...since forever...

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

I don't care enough to even think someone in a used bummer is trying to impress me… or a new one. I don't care. I see high dollar stuff all the time; you guys know me; I'm impressed with VINTAGE stuff- that you sought it out, that you bought/built/care for/like it. A machine that's relatively unique. A new lux car is a dime a dozen. A CPO pre-owned lux car is a dime a dozen. if YOU like/want  it, GREAT! Enjoy! But if you have delicate sensibilities; don't ask my opinion of your vehicle.

BTW : you can still buy a 2-3 yr old vehicle and THEN run it into the ground. It's hard to neglect maintenance so rabidly that the car's life is artificially shortened within that 36K miles. And with car fax & CPO certification, you can be reasonably sure your car had a few oil changes by 36K. And you save thousands & thousands. 

Not for everyone, and that's fine. But I don't see much strength in arguing against the fiscal scenario.

Edited July 10, 2019 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

21 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

Go buy a new car and lose lots of money then. It's a free country -- even Canada is in this regard. We need people like you to buy new so we have used cars to benefit from.

I'll never buy new. If I have a billion dollars, that 2014 Boeing 787-9 with 20,000 flight hours will look pretty good especially if it has GEnx engines that was just overhauled.

And you wont buy new from me...because...I happen to run the car to the ground...

And if you do happen to buy from me...

Be prepared to put lots of money in it just to get it to be road worthy because at that point....repairing even the most necessary regular maintenance on it...like  the exhaust system...because our exhaust systems NEED to be changed at about 8 years...you know...rust and rocks putting holes in i because we use salt and little rocks on our rods for the icy conditions we get on a very regular basis in the winter. And like I said...@ 8 years, our cars sometimes are worth LESS than what the repairs cost...

Yes...even on uber expensive luxury cars...

Because...a 100 000 dollar luxury ride...will have more expensive parts to be put on...

THAT is the WHOLE point... 

In sunny California...cars last a looooong time...

In Quebec...not so much. 

[balthazar]

When I bought my (only new purchase) '94, I said to myself 'when the exhaust rots out, I can put a performance muffler on it, sound a lil more grumbly'. When I sold it at 146K, it still had the original, unrepaired, non-leaking exhaust. Replacement truck has 191K miles- still on the original exhaust. I haven't even replaced a hanger yet. NJ salts or brines if it's below 45 degrees & they forecast rain.

[riviera74]

Of course most cars have a hard time surviving in the Snowbelt because of the copious amount of road salt used every harsh winter.  Florida and California cars last for years because there is little or no snow here/there.  Every once in a while I see cars built in the 70s and quite a few from the 80s down here.  There is a reason Canada mandated rustproofing cars back in 1977.

[Robert Hall]

The way I look at it, under $30k-40k, most anything new is a 4cyl FWD generic--just boring gray interior point A to point B transport..disposable appliances.   I'd rather have something more substantial, comfortable, and nicer equipped for a daily driver, and don't want to spend $40-50k on a new vehicle.  I'm not trying to impress anyone, I got what I wanted.  I don't care what anyone else thinks, I like Jeeps.  Grand Cherokees specifically.  I wanted an American midsize 2 row RWD/AWD SUV, since I don't do FWD/AWD transverse engine CUVs.  Not many choices.  Had a good experience w/ my previous one, having a good experience w/ my CPO.   

 Vintage stuff is nice to look at at a car show, but not something I want to spend time dealing with, and since I don't have extra garage space, vintage is out of the question. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

36 minutes ago, balthazar said:

BTW : you can still buy a 2-3 yr old vehicle and THEN run it into the ground

(general speak. Not directed at anybody, even though I quoted Balthy.)

Yeah...you could do that.

I am not against that. I just prefer to buy....new.

Dont call me stupid for me wanting to do that.  Hey...I didnt call anybopdy stupid for wanting to buy bigger than needed house because APPRECIATION only to be sleeping on matresses on the floor while eating wet from water noodles.  But THAT would be stupid to me...  Just sayin'

39 minutes ago, balthazar said:

It's hard to neglect maintenance so rabidly that the car's life is artificially shortened within that 36K miles.

True fact again. 

But...I want to put that 1st 36K miles on MY car.  I value new.  As long as I got  moulah to spend on a new car, gosh darn it Im  buyin' a brand new car. 

And when I say... "As long as I got  moulah to spend on a new car"...I really mean if I got cash flow to CONTINUE to buy a brand new car of equal or MORE value sometime in the future when this brand new car needs replacin'. 

THIS is what I do. This is what I want.

44 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Not for everyone, and that's fine. But I don't see much strength in arguing against the fiscal scenario.

Yes...

One more time with factual accuracy. 

You do you. I do me. 

To each his own.   I only talked bad about folks who buy used  luxury to show off...

47 minutes ago, balthazar said:

And with car fax & CPO certification, you can be reasonably sure your car had a few oil changes by 36K. And you save thousands & thousands

And of course this is true also.

But I dont do that either. I also dont WANT to do that.  Its a hassle for me to do that kind of research.

OK...Il be honest.  Its "beneath" me to do that.  

I value new over used.  Id rather just buy...new. 

I like going into a dealership; looking at all those NEW shiny cars.  I like choosing MY brand new car from GM or Ford or Acura or Oldsmobile to see what NEW car suits MY needs.  

I like to go a make an offer on a NEW car and I like all that hooplah surrounding that NEW car experience INCLUDING that NEW car smell.

I like seeing the engine bay being...NEW.

I like seeing the rugs...being NEW everywhere in the car.

I like seeing the paint be...NEW knowing its FRESH from the factory maybe at most 6 months old or so...

I like seeing 1-2-3-5-10-20 miles on the odometer.

For me...

THAT is worth the price of admission bearing the brunt of a new car purchase.

I WANT to bear the brunt of the price of admission of owning a brand NEW car.

Dont worry, I could afford it.  Dont worry, my wife and 2 kids dont sleep on the floor of our house on matresses and we eat noodles on occasion, but we splurge and put all kinds of veggies on them with all kinds of soya sauce and what not. 

We also eat egg rolls with lots and lots of plum sauce on them. We also do Greek and Italian and we eat the works with our Italian or Greek foods. 

You could almost call it a feast. Every day too. 

We also have monies left over for other fun stuff.... Yeah...buying new cars every 6-7-8 years, sometimes we stretch it to 10 other times just 5 hasnt made us go to the poor house. 

But...make no mistake about it...

I got a family. I take pride in my family, and I maintain my cars FOR THEIR SAFETY. So I also put money INTO my new cars. 

I could take either the 2012 Acura or 2013 Fusion (both bought NEW)   TOMORROW   TONIGHT on a cross country trip  to Boston, New York, Miami, Chicago, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, wherever,  Yes TONIGHT, knowing that either car will get me there SAFELY WITHOUT breaking down on me. 

The Acura, for a 7 year old car, looks goood. Drives goood. 

This car, is NOT for sale....not ready for a trade-in.

You are out of luck with this car @dwightlooi if you were into Acura TLs...

Maybe when this car turn 9 years old, you could get dibs on her, but remember, she will prolly have rust bubbles on her top exterior at this time. Her undercarriage will prolly be rusted to hell.  Ive got no rust showing on her yet, maybe next year. 

She has been very reliable. But by year 9 or 10, maybe something major will come up for me to repair. I know this year Im changing my battery, 1st time.  Surprising it went this ,long. maybe the alternator.  

Next year, maybe the exhaust amongst other things.  If those are the only things I do... regular maintenance stuff maybe years 9 or 10 I STILL keep her, but if other things go south on her...maybe I let her go. 

You see...I bought her 50 000 CDN dollars in 2012 taxes in. It was a fantastic price, for a NEW car...

But at 10  years old, she might not be all that safe...she will be worth repairing because she has been reliable, but as a family car, rotted by the salt, she might not be worth it. 

In sunny California, a 10 year old car, taken good care of like I did with her, could last another 10 years...

Buying a used car in Quebec...3 years old...if daily driven...well, it actually did shorten your car life span by 3 years...

Yes...depreciation, but also 3 years older...

If the car was driven once a week by an 80 year old lady going to church that was only one block away from her house and she got ex-communicated, then yes...a 3 year old car in Quebec is ,like new...

But if that 3 year old car in Quebec is daily driven, its also now 3 years older.  Mileage means nothing, its the salt doing the damage....not the mileage.  Its the little rocks that we use as traction for icy roads that wreak havoc on your paint job and on the undercarriage dinging shyte up. The salt just corrodes the metal. The paint chips, if not taken care of...will bubble up on you and create...holes... and when that starts to happen, then if the holes are big enough, compromises the safety of your car. 

And at 10 years old, trust me, rust is a BIG issue. And when repairs are needed even for the regular maintenance stuff, sometimes repairs are not worth it because the repairs cost MORE than the car.

So yeah...a 3 year old car in Quebec is exactly that.  Its about 30% used.

In depreciation logic...sure you get a great deal on a car YOU want to be seen in. But in theory, you will be daily driving it approx another 8-9 years....

I buy new...I will be daily driving it 10-12 years...

A mainstream nameplate...its not so bad this way...its advantageous to buy used even in Quebec.

Buy a luxury nameplate, especially a foreign nameplate...from Germany, be prepared to pay high dollars for the obviuosly better engineering just to do regular maintenance and to keep a SAFE car on the road...

Remember, in Quebec, winter conditions dont give a shyte what brand you are, rust rusts any car pretty much the same way with the same intensity... 

Buy a used lux vehicle...on the cheap...GREAT!!!

You wont be so lucky repairing her even for the most necessary of mundane regular maintenance such as alternators (years 7 and 8  )  and exhausts (year 8 )  and maybe suspensions due to shytty pot holes and the like...

yeah...Mercedes and BMW awesome suspensions...

No really!

 They are awesome. The best!!!  Better than a mundane Chevy Malibu for sure!!!

But how much do they go for when needed to be replaced?

And you just bought a used Bimmer to save money on depreciation? 

How 'bout maintenance schedules and little oopsies from a thing we call shyte happens on a car that is 8 years old now, with an undercarriage that is rusted and rusting at a rapid rate at this point in time...that maybe has another 2-3 years left in her.  (Daily driven...and I say that because daily driven takes a huuuuge toll...especially in the winter) 

And to me...a 10-12 year old car in Quebec...no matter the make or brand....is worth at most...2000-3000 dollars.

Like I said...

Winter conditions in Quebec dont give a shyte what brand you are, rust rusts any car pretty much the same way with the same intensity... 

 

 

 

 

 

[dwightlooi]

The beautiful thing about the market place is that we do not have to rely on oldhurst442 for a healthy supply of used cars. I have never, ever, had a significant issue with my used cars. I buy at 3~4 sell at 6~7. Usually, they never see the inside of a workshop and if they did it is usually under warranty anyway. I don't even buy particularly "reliable" makes and models (apart from the two Acuras). The last 6 were 2017 Acura MDX, 2014 CTS VSport, 2011 Jaguar XF 5.0 Supercharged, 2008 Acura TL, 2005 M-B C55 AMG and 2000 Audi S4.

Edited July 10, 2019 by dwightlooi

[Robert Hall]

By buying a 3 yr old CPO from California w/ 25k miles I got a rust free pretty much spotless like new Jeep that had only trivial differences from a new one, at about $15k off the new price.  New car smell isn’t worth that much for me. ( I have a very poor sense of smell anyway) 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

28 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

The beautiful thing about the market place is that we do not have to rely on oldhurst442 for a healthy supply of used cars. I have never, ever, had a significant issue with my used cars. I buy at 3~4 sell at 6~7. Usually, they never see the inside of a workshop and if they did it is usually under warranty anyway. I don't even buy particularly "reliable" makes and models (apart from the two Acuras). The last 6 were 2017 Acura MDX, 2014 CTS VSport, 2011 Jaguar XF 5.0 Supercharged, 2008 Acura TL, 2005 M-B C55 AMG and 2000 Audi S4.

Yet...you called me stupid...

But...YOU are the one that told ME that you knew people that slept on matresses and ate wet from water noodles because...well...money...

The thing is...YOU live in sunny California.

YOU got some cherry cars you could choose from...even used.

1. California is a big state.  Very populous.

Shyte. Los Angeles has 33% the population of Canada...

Canada has 37 million folk living. 

Los Angeles county has about 10 million folk. Living la vida loca. Looking all nice. 

Quebec has a population of 6-7 million people.

2. Sunny California has niiiiice weather.

It seems you've never been outside sunny California...I dont think you've ever seen rust on a car before...

I think you think rust is a lovely colour called petina on a rat rod...

Its a shame...

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by oldshurst442

[dwightlooi]

6 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

By buying a 3 yr old CPO from California w/ 25k miles I got a rust free pretty much spotless like new Jeep that had only trivial differences from a new one, at about $15k off the new price.  New car smell isn’t worth that much for me. 

I got the 2014 CTS VSport Premium from Texas with 26K miles and not a scratch in 2017 for $33K ($40K off the $73K as new price tag). That's 55% off. You cannot convince me that buying new and driving that first 26K miles at a cost of $40K is a good deal compared to driving the next 70K miles for $18~20K.  It has 69K miles on it now and I'll probably keep it for another year to year and a half.

[oldshurst442]

Just now, dwightlooi said:

I got the 2014 CTS VSport Premium from Texas with 26K miles and not a scratch in 2017 for $33K ($40K off the $73K as new price tag). That's 55% off. You cannot convince me that buying new and driving that first 26K miles at a cost of $40K is a good deal compared to driving the next 70K miles for $18~20K.  It has 69K miles on it now and I'll probably keep it for another year to year and a half.

Like I said...you live in a bubble called Cali-for-nigh-aye. 

 

[dwightlooi]

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

It seems you've never been outside sunny California...I dont think you've ever seen rust on a car before...

There is this thing called SHIPPING. It costs $400~600 to ship a car to Northern CA from Southern CA, AZ or NV. About $800~1000 to ship it from the mid-west including Texas. About $1300 from the east coast including Florida. The last two cars I bought, I bought online sight unseen and have them shipped. With the exhorbitant rent and labor costs, buying from local dealers adds about $3000~6000 to the price of a $40K used car. So I buy out of state and pay a few hundred bucks to get it shipped in. If you are so fussy about salt and snow you can get yours remotely too.

[oldshurst442]

 

19 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

There is this thing called SHIPPING. It costs $400~600 to ship a car to Northern CA from Southern CA, AZ or NV. About $800~1000 to ship it from the mid-west including Texas. About $1300 from the east coast including Florida. The last two cars I bought, I bought online sight unseen and have them shipped. With the exhorbitant rent and labor costs, buying from local dealers adds about $3000~6000 to the price of a $40K used car. So I buy out of state and pay a few hundred bucks to get it shipped in. If you are so fussy about salt and snow you can get yours remotely too.

Hello...

I live in Canada...

There are rules and laws and regulations that an American car has to go through to get Canadianized...and this was BEFORE Donald Trump became president...

You can google to see what an American car has to go through to become Canadian.  These laws have been placed there to prevent Canadians to travel to the States to buy the cheaper price tags than what Canadian dealerships offer us. Not worth the price and hassle and Canadian upgrades needed to be done just to get a modern car...

But you knew that right?

Because you are smarter than me...

It must be your high priced private California school system as compared to my poor and dumb public Canadian, French at that...public school system...

But...seeing that @Robert Hall  and yourself deem yourselves smarter than I...

Its OK...

Like I said...

You do you...I do me...

Contrary to what you think of me, I think its fantastic that you could do what you do...

Unfortunately for me and other Montrealers for the most part...THAT aint possible...

You could choose to ignore me, and make fun of me...that is OK...and @Robert Hall to downvote...

But..not my problem if both you guys are blind and dumb to the whole thing.

Even if Robert lives in Ohio...its a shame for him too...that he choose to be ignorant on my plight...

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

43 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

By buying a 3 yr old CPO from California w/ 25k miles I got a rust free pretty much spotless like new Jeep that had only trivial differences from a new one, at about $15k off the new price.  New car smell isn’t worth that much for me. ( I have a very poor sense of smell anyway) 

Should I downvote you here?

Because quite honestly...with your downvotes...you are really acting like a child!!!

I had high respect for you...but now....

With your smug and ignorant post that your sense of smell is poor.

You happen to not be interested in new car smell.

I am...

Im not allowed?

You too...

You think rust is not a problem in Montreal for cars?

You think that California  cars are rotted by rust on the same level as Quebec cars?  Montreal being the warmest and least cold  and inclement weather areas of Quebec...

Shyte dude!!!

Downvote me all night long...

Its you that looks the part of an ignorant soul. Not me. 

And here you are....buying a car from California...

Why didnt you buy it from Vermont?  OK...Massachusetts...

What about Illinois?  Michigan?  North or South Dakota? 

Yeah...you got it in sunny California...

Get the phoque out, dude!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

@oldshurst442 as an aside, do you ever have short, condensed responses?  Too long and rambling.   Anyway, yes life is hard in Canada and you have shitty winters and everything rusts. We understand that.  You are just whining at this point. 

There was nothing smug or arrogant about my post; just stating facts.  CPOs can be a good deal. Maybe Canadian car dealers don’t have CPO programs?  I don’t know.  I’m presenting facts as I know them in my reality context.  

Edited July 10, 2019 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

@oldshurst442 as an aside, do you ever have short, condensed responses?  Too long and rambling.   Anyway, yes life is hard in Canada and you have $h!ty winters and everything rusts. We get that.  You are just whining at this point.  

Nah...I aint whining...

I just proved that you phoqued up on this...

48 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

By buying a 3 yr old CPO from California w/ 25k miles I got a rust free pretty much spotless like new Jeep

 

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Winter conditions in Quebec dont give a shyte what brand you are, rust rusts any car pretty much the same way with the same intensity... 

 

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Bull$h!..it's a bad investment to buy new, a depreciated 3 yr old vehicle with 25k is a much better purchase.   I don't buy your Quebec argument either--are people too lazy there to keep their cars clean?   We got a lot of salt and bad weather here in Cleveland also, yes cars are worn out here after 10 years also if you don't take care of them...but you can have a daily driver look great here if you keep it washed and get the salt off.

 

You bought a California car....you downvoted me because I said Quebec cars rust...you bought a California car...

You tried to school me that Canadians could be lazy for NOT cleaning their winter grime off their cars...

Yet...you bought a California car...

52 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

By buying a 3 yr old CPO from California w/ 25k miles I got a rust free pretty much spotless like new Jeep

 

Yeah...insult my intelligence even more...