Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[balthazar]

‘Not wanting to sit & charge’ was already proven with 98% of the market choosing IC.

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

a 90 second battery swap and off for another 300 miles is faster than any Gas fueling ICE auto can do.

Didnt Tesla already try this in the very beginning?

Didnt Tesla's experience with this concept fail because people dont want to change/swap batteries?

I know when it comes to propane BBQ tanks, the majority of folk dont want to swap out their tanks....folk prefer to keep their own and fuel up. 

Anyhoo, this is why Tesla spent billions creating their own charging network in the first place, right?

I dont think this is a viable solution...for North America at least... 

Edited June 5, 2020 by oldshurst442

[David]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Didnt Tesla already try this in the very beginning?

Didnt Tesla's experience with this concept fail because people dont want to change/swap batteries?

I know when it comes to propane BBQ tanks, the majority of folk dont want to swap out their tanks....folk prefer to keep their own and fuel up. 

Anyhoo, this is why Tesla spent billions creating their own charging network in the first place, right?

I dont think this is a viable solution...for North America at least... 

Actually people have no problem changing out Propane BBQ Tanks as to why the growth of having $17.99 propane tank swaps everywhere. Fast and easy compared to waiting to fuel up the tank.

Tesla dropped the battery swap as the cost of the automated equipment at the time was so expensive, but now especially in china, ya drive into the assigned space, and boom, 90 seconds later your done with a fully charged battery.

I suspect times have changed big enough to make it a more feasible option than the charging station at least in china.

Be interesting to see how this all pans out.

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

‘Not wanting to sit & charge’ was already proven with 98% of the market choosing IC.

ICE has a diverse choice of auto's something that EVs are not yet there which you know.

[David]

Sheldon Brown, Toyota's Chief Truck Engineer explained that Truck owners value Low end Torque and electrification makes sense. This does not confirm an EV or Hybrid Tundra truck, but with the success of the Rav 4 Hybrid, this is an interesting read on Toyota and competition with Ford, GM and Ram and how this Engineer see's that Electrification can help give you more Torque than a Diesel with the cleanliness of a Hybrid powertrain.

He does say that truck buyers value ability over MPG so any MPG increase that a possible Hybrid power train gives on top of instant torque from zero would be a bonus.

They also say that the V8 production of engines for Toyota and Lexus is coming to an end, so a TTV6 might be the V8 replacement or a the Hybrid Prime system since the new Rav4 Prime is the fastest auto Toyota makes other than the Supra built by BMW.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/toyota-says-electrified-trucks-make-sense-thanks-to-beefy-low-end-torque/ar-BB157Wb9?ocid=msedgntp

[balthazar]

Again I’ll state :: not that long ago many were heralding Automomous driving vehicles because there are “so many bad/ poor/ elderly drivers with low skills”.

Now some are blowing the trumpets at putting these same drivers in vehicles that are the fastest in that brand’s catalog.

Critical Thinking: out the window.

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Sheldon Brown, Toyota's Chief Truck Engineer explained that Truck owners value Low end Torque and electrification makes sense. This does not confirm an EV or Hybrid Tundra truck, but with the success of the Rav 4 Hybrid, this is an interesting read on Toyota and competition with Ford, GM and Ram and how this Engineer see's that Electrification can help give you more Torque than a Diesel with the cleanliness of a Hybrid powertrain.

He does say that truck buyers value ability over MPG so any MPG increase that a possible Hybrid power train gives on top of instant torque from zero would be a bonus.

They also say that the V8 production of engines for Toyota and Lexus is coming to an end, so a TTV6 might be the V8 replacement or a the Hybrid Prime system since the new Rav4 Prime is the fastest auto Toyota makes other than the Supra built by BMW.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/toyota-says-electrified-trucks-make-sense-thanks-to-beefy-low-end-torque/ar-BB157Wb9?ocid=msedgntp

Kinda sad that they are willing to ditch the V8.  I Hope that GM/Ford/FCA does not make the same error, especially when it comes to trucks. . . . at least until BEVs can really carry the load of a typical full-size pickup.

[David]

13 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Kinda sad that they are willing to ditch the V8.  I Hope that GM/Ford/FCA does not make the same error, especially when it comes to trucks. . . . at least until BEVs can really carry the load of a typical full-size pickup.

I cannot seem to find the writeup that stated it, but I thought this last 7.3L V8 was it for ford. It would carry them through till the conversion of EV trucks was standard. I know GM has stated that the blueprint design of the small block V8 motor will get tweaks over the next decade, but they expect it to also be the last of the V8 motors as they move to an all EV product lineup.

I suspect with Europe and Asia motor taxes on size, that the power will come in Hybrid and EV auto's.

[ocnblu]

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/09/mary-barra-gm-electric-vehicle-timeline-decades/

 

LOL

[riviera74]

1 minute ago, ocnblu said:

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/09/mary-barra-gm-electric-vehicle-timeline-decades/

 

LOL

The comments are making fun of her fairly accurate observation.  The believers assume that all car buyers are like them.  That is truly hilarious.  Barra 1, believers 0.

[ocnblu]

It's the first practical thing she's said on the subject in like forever.  Hello?  They'll never be mainstream.

 

[David]

5 hours ago, ocnblu said:

It's the first practical thing she's said on the subject in like forever.  Hello?  They'll never be mainstream.

Your right, you will be dead by the time they are mainstream in your area. For others they are becoming main stream which is why on the West coast you have charging everywhere and see so many. Once full size trucks are available, the change will happen even faster and jump again once full size EV SUVs are available.

[balthazar]

They. Have. To. Be. Priced. Competitively.
You can't displace $45K IC trucks with $80K and $125K EV trucks. It's disconnected from reality and the market to believe so.

[riviera74]

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

They. Have. To. Be. Priced. Competitively.
You can't displace $45K IC trucks with $80K and $125K EV trucks. It's disconnected from reality and the market to believe so.

Exactly.  If they really want to replace ICE with BEVs, BEVs have to be significantly cheaper than ICE vehicles since the technology is essentially unproven to the general public (i.e. NOT Tesla owners).

[David]

4 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Exactly.  If they really want to replace ICE with BEVs, BEVs have to be significantly cheaper than ICE vehicles since the technology is essentially unproven to the general public (i.e. NOT Tesla owners).

I am going to disagree that it is unproven. With most people having smartphones, tablets, laptops and so many other electric products, charging and having a battery operated product is not unproven, mostly just unknown and the best way to do that is bring out the trucks and suvs and have driver days where people can stop by, take it for a spin and see how they like it compared to an ICE.

Most people who have taken an EV for a test drive have quickly made the change over to regen breaking from traditional breaking and found the instant torque to be very delightful.

[balthazar]

Unfortunately, that 'most people' is a micro-sized portion of the market as a whole.

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

I am going to disagree that it is unproven. With most people having smartphones, tablets, laptops and so many other electric products, charging and having a battery operated product is not unproven, mostly just unknown and the best way to do that is bring out the trucks and suvs and have driver days where people can stop by, take it for a spin and see how they like it compared to an ICE.

Most people who have taken an EV for a test drive have quickly made the change over to regen breaking from traditional breaking and found the instant torque to be very delightful.

Yes, once a customer is convinced that a BEV is the way to go, they are converted to embrace not just the car but all the technology that comes with it.  The vast majority of US car buyers are still on ICE because most BEVs are still expensive and current BEVs are not cheap enough to displace the USED car market at all.  Small devices are one thing; a BEV is a completely different proposition.  I still remember when a cellphone was expensive and did NOT have a touchscreen at all.  I remember when the iPhone came out In June 2007 for $600 that you had to pay for upfront.  Three years later came the iPad at $500 to start.  A LOT of people embraced both technologies very quickly (even if it was a $99 Android phone and/or a $69 Android tablet).

BEVs on the other hand are still a niche product because their market share is less than one percent.  I would like to one a BEV one day, but the prices are simply too damn high.  Most people would agree since they could not afford the monthly payments on a finance job or even a subsidized lease.  Moreover, used car prices are such that a BEV looks too expensive for a lot of people right now or even two years ago.  Now, create a quality BEV with the range of a top of the Tesla for $10K and a LOT of people will line up for their own BEV.

[balthazar]

$10K is unrealistic, tho your statement is correct.

[oldshurst442]

I was JUST about the comment on $10 000 being unrealistic but I agree with his statement.

 

[David]

7 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Yes, once a customer is convinced that a BEV is the way to go, they are converted to embrace not just the car but all the technology that comes with it.  The vast majority of US car buyers are still on ICE because most BEVs are still expensive and current BEVs are not cheap enough to displace the USED car market at all.  Small devices are one thing; a BEV is a completely different proposition.  I still remember when a cellphone was expensive and did NOT have a touchscreen at all.  I remember when the iPhone came out In June 2007 for $600 that you had to pay for upfront.  Three years later came the iPad at $500 to start.  A LOT of people embraced both technologies very quickly (even if it was a $99 Android phone and/or a $69 Android tablet).

BEVs on the other hand are still a niche product because their market share is less than one percent.  I would like to one a BEV one day, but the prices are simply too damn high.  Most people would agree since they could not afford the monthly payments on a finance job or even a subsidized lease.  Moreover, used car prices are such that a BEV looks too expensive for a lot of people right now or even two years ago.  Now, create a quality BEV with the range of a top of the Tesla for $10K and a LOT of people will line up for their own BEV.

So your saying that $249 a month for 36 months is too much for people to afford a Bolt?

Looking at the time machine of past, GM had it at $349 last summer. Even that is much cheaper than many other ICE options. 

I think the bigger issue is the lack of Marketing by GM for the Bolt and the same for Nissan as the leaf is in the same price range.

Yes I agree with you that Tesla are way over priced for what you get, but I think in many regards, the lack of information, marketing and dealer training is what also holds back EV sales. IMHO

[oldshurst442]

6 hours ago, dfelt said:

So your saying that $249 a month for 36 months is too much for people to afford a Bolt?

10 000 dollars for a Bolt is a GREAT price.

You know what?  10 000 dollars for a brand spanking Corvette C8 new from the showroom floor is ALSO a GREAT price. 

In both scenarios, 249 a month for 36 months is NOT too much for people to afford.  But we all know that such a low price for either is not reality. 

The thing is, the technology involved does not lend that to happen, right?

Not yet at least.  

PS: I thought GM was losing money on the Bolt that was sold at 349.    Yes, marketing and lack of qualified sales people hold back the Bolt, but prices for EVs for the masses is not yet in line for them to be sold at and for the masses...

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by oldshurst442

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

10 000 dollars for a Bolt is a GREAT price.

You know what?  10 000 dollars for a brand spanking Corvette C8 new from the showroom floor is ALSO a GREAT price. 

In both scenarios, 249 a month for 36 months is NOT too much for people to afford.  But we all know that such a low price for either is not reality. 

The thing is, the technology involved does not lend that to happen, right?

Not yet at least.  

PS: I thought GM was losing money on the Bolt that was sold at 349.    Yes, marketing and lack of qualified sales people hold back the Bolt, but prices for EVs for the masses is not yet in line for them to be sold at and for the masses...

 

Marketing is an issue since GM does not advertise all that much with cars these days.  There is also a product issue.  If the Bolt were the size of an Equinox, sales would be triple what the Bolt has sold since inception.

[David]

Another Truck maker with value surpassing Legacy OEMs with nothing delivered yet and now what was once offered to Tesla as a superior truck to the abomination Tesla truck is now moving forward with reservations to open June 29th 2020 and deliveries to begin in 2022 with an as yet to be announced partner per the CEO interview on Reuters.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nikola-badger/nikola-in-talks-with-automakers-for-badger-pickup-truck-production-founder-idUSKBN23H39S

CEO of Nikola says the Badger EV Truck will have a 600 mile range with option of fuel cell hybrid or pure EV compared to the Tesla truck with only a 500 mile range.

Nikola has also started building their own Hydrogen fueling network which they say will be open to everyone with plans for 700 stations across the nation.

 

[David]

According to COO Jim Farley, blame it on the Pandemic but the redesigned F-150 will finally be unveiled July 25th 2020. and this new truck will have a new electrical architecture that is believed to use what the Mach-e has for over the air updates plus allow both ICE and EV trucks. 

With that said, Ford COO Jim Farley did say that the EV truck and Van will come to market mid 2022.

So will Ford seize the day or will they be late to the party as Tesla, Rivian, Lordstown and GM have all stated they will have their EV Trucks out in 2021 and aimed at Fleet buyers.

🤔

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/ford-coo-says-electric-f-150-pickup-and-transit-van-will-arrive-mid-2022/

[balthazar]

WHAT is all that hanging down under the Ford?

[David]

13 minutes ago, balthazar said:

WHAT is all that hanging down under the Ford?

That EV concept had a non production battery pack and they said that it would be up between the frame and not show like that when they did the train pull.

[David]

Rivian files new paten for drop tail gate per Teslarati.com. 

Everyone watches everyone and in the auto industry that is no exception where Rivian is expected to really shake things up. They had shown at an auto show a concept tail gate that dropped.

It now seems it could very well be available on the truck as an option over a traditional tail gate or it could become the standard tailgate. Teslarati discovered this reviewing patent filings from December.

Patent details of the actual tailgate here: https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2019236967&tab=PCTBIBLIO

Teslarati story here: https://www.teslarati.com/rivian-r1t-tailgate-swing-drop-patent/

[David]

West Coast to lead the nation in becoming a Diesel free commercial truck zone.

Utilities are working with the Class 8 Semi Truck industry as they deploy heavy duty rapid chargers to allow 800V Semi Truck and faster charging stations in support of the future of commercial transit.

Along the major freeway system there is already an existing charging network that supports auto's and medium duty trucks from traditional level 1 charging to Level 3 rapid charging and with Level 4 extreme fast charging for vehicles coming on this is getting a boost of support as Utilities invest in having charging systems that will support future Class 8 semi trucks like the new Freightliner EV semi above.

GreenCar web site is reporting that the comprehensive 185 page West Coast Clean Transit Corridor Initiative study will truly change as they add high powered DC fast chargers along the 1,300 mile I5 corridor from Mexico to Canada along with sites connecting state highways such as I-8, I-10, I-80 in California, I-84 in Oregon and I-90 in Washington as well as other local routes.

10 years ago, the West Coast Electric Highway was built from Whistler, British Columbia to Mexico with charging stations every 25 to 50 miles along I-5, U.S. 101 and California Hwy 99.

The new initiative is to add these direct charging or extreme fast chargers since Semi Trucks (Class 8 ) take 100 times more power than a traditional DC fast charger for auto's. Total cost of the project is estimated at $850 million

Full report can be read here: https://www.hdrinc.com/portfolio/west-coast-clean-transit-corridor-initiative

PDF version of the report can be downloaded here: https://westcoastcleantransit.com/ Where you can see the 11 utilities that are to take part in this expansion of the charging grid.

This is based on the following:

• Zero-emission MD/HD truck market assessment
• Zero-emission MD/HD truck forecasts
• Stakeholder surveys
• Current trucking market landscape analysis
• Current utility infrastructure evaluation 
• Current and forecasted truck volumes along the corridor
• Identification of locations for future electric truck charging facilities

[David]

Oregon Bus Depot deploys wireless charging system that is in the pavement, freeing up space and decreasing charging time for the deployment of EV buses.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/wave-deploys-wireless-charging-system-at-oregon-bus-depot/

In addition to the news of electric auto's, seems Tesla Long Range Model S has received it's awaited new battery range. 402 miles on a single charge for the updated Tesla S Long range auto. This is a 20% improvement over 2019 models with the same battery pack design. 

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/tesla-used-a-variety-of-technical-advances-to-increase-model-s-range-to-400-miles/

[David]

The Tesla Cybertruck is on display in LA and people lined up to see it. Many say they have warmed up to the design. I have to say that after looking at the images in this story posted online, the video, etc. I still HATE Tesla cyber truck.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/20/tesla-cybertruck-prototype-close-look-public-outing-pictures/

Honestly it is not impressive to look at, what appears for headroom would say this will be more bunker style than a Chevrolet Camaro. Over all, I see no good angle from front, back, side or 3/4 that would make me want this truck. The Ford F-150 prototype EV truck and the Rivian are superior looking to me. I have high hopes for the Hummer by GMC EV Truck / SUV also.

[balthazar]

45 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I still HATE Tesla cyber truck.

That guarantees you have at least a quarter ounce of taste. 😉
Tesla 'truck' is miles below an Aztek or Axiom in the beauty department.

[riviera74]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

That guarantees you have at least a quarter ounce of taste. 😉
Tesla 'truck' is miles below an Aztek or Axiom in the beauty department.

Elon Musk aside, who actually LIKES the Tesla Cyber Truck?!

[David]

1 minute ago, riviera74 said:

Elon Musk aside, who actually LIKES the Tesla Cyber Truck?!

Right, that is the WORST truck ever!

[riviera74]

Just now, dfelt said:

Right, that is the WORST truck ever!

Correction: that is the Worst Looking Truck ever!

[David]

Gotta Love auto stories that are done about what would you give up for your truck especially electric pickups.

Interesting the percentages for the various things asked and this is driven by FORD.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/22/ford-pickup-truck-survey/

So with the 2021 Ford F-150 Pickup reveal days away, Ford wanted to understand what people would do to hold onto their pickup.

This is what Truck owners will give up to hold onto their pickup Quoting the story:

Number one was streaming services, with 82% owners ready to drop them. More surprising was alcohol, which was close behind at 79%, followed by coffee at 71%. The numbers began to dwindle with other choices, though, as just under half of respondents would give up their phone for a year versus their trucks and 44% would give up eating meat. The hardest sell was giving up sex for a year, which only got 38% of owners.

When it came to an EV Pickup this is what came out:

Nationwide, 40% of owners are "excited" about fully electric pickups, which isn't a majority, but is still a sizable chunk. While Ford didn't highlight every state, it did show that the majority of truck owners in California, 62% specifically, are excited for electric pickups.

Interesting is that the top 3 choices for going EV all centered around power and capability of the truck, along with charging locations and reduced maintenance were the top 3 items.

If your interested in the whole questionnaire that Ford did on their trucks, check it out here where Ford has it posted for the Public. Check out the history of the F-150 Ford Pickup with pictures in the PDF file that starts with Fords first pickup in 1917 to today. Very cool.

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/2020/06/22/The-Great-American-Truck-Survey-2020.pdf

JUNE 25th 8pm EDT for the 2021 Ford F-150 Reveal!

[oldshurst442]

23 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Elon Musk aside, who actually LIKES the Tesla Cyber Truck?!

Those that pray and sacrifice babies at the altar of Tesla Motors inc. . Baby llamas all the way to baby humans.

 As an example: 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

Those baby llamas are really cute.

[David]

16 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Those baby llamas are really cute.

To use a phrase from Minions, the little Girl.

"THEY ARE SO FLUFFY!!!"

[ccap41]

Baby llamas are adorable as fck. 

[oldshurst442]

That is why I chose to use baby llamas for my "controversial" post. To get a rise from people.  

They are sooo cute and adorable that when I mentioned they get sacrificed (at the Tesla Motors altar), I was hoping some of these Muskian religious  zealots would start hatin' on me.  Id get clicks and some fame and Id get my own shock jock TV or radio show or something.  ]

But alas, that didnt happen.        

I only seem to get a rise with people when I say shyte like rich, bitch, WHITE middle aged "Karens" drive Porsche CUVs... 

Oh well...     

Ill continue on my shock jock ways until I get my day in the shock jock world of entertainment some day. 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by oldshurst442

[David]

46 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

That is why I chose to use baby llamas for my "controversial" post. To get a rise from people.  

They are sooo cute and adorable that when I mentioned they get sacrificed (at the Tesla Motors altar), I was hoping some of these Muskian religious  zealots would start hatin' on me.  Id get clicks and some fame and Id get my own shock jock TV or radio show or something.  ]

But alas, that didnt happen.        

I only seem to get a rise with people when I say shyte like rich, bitch, WHITE middle aged "Karens" drive Porsche CUVs... 

Oh well...     

Ill continue on my shock jock ways until I get my day in the shock jock world of entertainment some day. 

 

Shock Jock might never happen my friend. Your from Canada and your tag name here starts with OLD  

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Shock Jock might never happen my friend. Your from Canada and your tag name here starts with OLD  

Canada, unfortunately, does NOT belong to me...   I wish it did.   

All those gold mines, diamond mines, hydroelectric powah.     MINE MINE MINE.  

 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

11 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Canada, unfortunately, does NOT belong to me...   I wish it did.   

All those gold mines, diamond mines, hydroelectric powah.     MINE MINE MINE.  

 

 

And Nickelback.  

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I only seem to get a rise with people when I say shyte like rich, bitch, WHITE middle aged "Karens" drive Porsche CUVs... 

They also drive Lincoln MKC's... hahaha

Okay, maybe not the "rich" part but the rest still fits. 

[David]

Great read about living with a Chevrolet Bolt for 3yrs and they guy wanted to buy it, yet GM failed at holding onto a customer.

He points out the failures of the dealerships and the reason Dealerships offer no value to the buying experience on top of the incompetent ignorant sales people. 

Such a shame that GM is failing already with their EV product line. I tetesting to read what he says about the Cadillac and Hummer by GMC. Exciting EVs that are good looking with excellent interiors, but equal to what is already out. Sad.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/25/chevy-bolt-retrospective/

[balthazar]

Quote

Compare to an ICE car, where if someone floors it, the car drops into a low gear way too long, makes crazy noise, jerks the car around as it shifts. People look at you like you are crazy.

Parody article, tho light on the humor aspect. And sentence structure/grammar.

Edited June 26, 2020 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

From @dfelt link above... 

https://electrek.co/2020/06/25/chevy-bolt-retrospective/

Quote

GM has continuously sided with the Trump administration on the rollback of emissions standards,

But here, I remember this article...

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1119613_honda-joins-gm-others-in-heated-opposition-to-trumps-epa-fuel-economy-freeze

Quote

 

Honda joined General Motors on Friday and called on the EPA to abandon its proposed fuel-economy rollback, asking federal officials to negotiate with states like California to offer a single, comprehensive update to federal fuel-economy standards.

Honda filed its comment Friday, the last day for public comments, on the Trump administration's plan, and said a negotiated plan that doesn't freeze fuel-economy standards at 2020 levels would be "a better path."

 

“The industry is united in its request that the agencies work out an agreement with California,” Honda wrote.

Instead, Honda and GM advised that state and federal officials should hammer out a compromise for a unified standard. Federal officials have signaled that they're willing to negotiate, but no deal has yet emerged. Twelve other states and the District of Columbia follow California's stricter emissions standards, and up to 18 states have signaled that they may fight a proposed federal freeze on fuel-economy standards.

 

So which one is it?   Does GM agree with the rollback or does GM NOT agree with it?

Because I also found THIS article...

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-10-31/epa-trump-emissions-lawsuit

Quote

 

General Motors, Fiat Chrysler and Toyota, the three most prominent manufacturers siding with Trump, stand out — and not in a good way.

GM and Fiat Chrysler ranked at the very bottom of the list of 13 automakers on both fuel efficiency and emissions. Both were worse than the industry average in both metrics. Toyota did better, ranking fifth from the bottom. But it was also the only manufacturer whose figures got worse during the five-year period.

 

 

So...what happened between the first article that was published in Oct 2018 and exactly ONE YEAR later with the other article?  (Oct 31. 2019)

Im confused...

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by oldshurst442

[riviera74]

I know.  Same here. 

Then again, when your auto sales mix is heavy on BOF trucks and SUVs with Vortec V8 power, emissions and fuel efficiency will fall by the wayside.  Same with HEMI power and the Tundra's V8.

Emission requirements are such that they want you to only have 4cyl engines, as if everyone should be driving a Honda or a Subaru.  And most Hyundai/KIA cars these days.

[balthazar]

Confusing story on CA decree on EV trucks :
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/california-shakes-auto-industry-says-all-vans-trucks-must-be-n1232259

Specifically, the subhead reads : "all vans and trucks must be electric by 2024"

However the copy specifies : "Under guidelines approved Thursday, at least 40 percent of the tractor trailers sold in California would have to be powered by some form of zero-emissions technology by 2024."

Last I checked; 40% does not equal 100%.

Article also goes on to mention a bevy of EV truck makers who do not currently make any EV trucks, such as Tesla, Nikola, Lordstown & Rivian. 2021 vehicles will be here en mass in 2 months; 2024 isn't far off AT ALL.

Edited June 27, 2020 by balthazar

[ocnblu]

Well, it's California government, there is no reason or logic involved.

[riviera74]

8 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Well, it's California government, there is no reason or logic involved.

Not true.  According to this article here, 70% of all automotive air pollution is caused by Class 8 trucks (think tractor-trailers and the like).  The mandate starts in 2024 but the mandate is not 100% until 2045.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/06/california-set-to-ban-all-heavy-diesel-trucks-and-vans-by-2045/

https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2020/06/california-regulators-order-massive-shift-to-battery-hydrogen-power-for-trucks-vans/

Edited June 27, 2020 by riviera74
additions needed