Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[David]

Mercedes-Benz just released their environmental report on how the EQC impacts our planet and some very cool info.

https://media.mercedes-benz.com/article/6fec9d20-cbde-4760-810e-6e0e885f36af

You can read the full report at the above link, but the bulk of it can be digested here in these 6 slides.

 

[David]

Another interesting read on a story just posted at Electrek, as we know, in 10 days we will get the reveal of the Tesla truck and the big question is can they steel any mojo back from Rivian?

This seems to boiling down to a simple matter of how many motors, does it have torque vectoring and what is the approach and departure angles of the truck for real world off road use? As the story points out, we know Musk will point out the 0 to 60 time, Tesla Supercharging infrastructure, along with incredible straight line performance as they use their latest Plaid power train system. 

As Polestar has pointed out, Tesla Cannot achieve what Rivian has done with a brake based two motor torque vectoring system unlike the actual 3 motor system that Rivian is using as well as Polestar. They take nothing away from Tesla for the incredible leadership of pushing the EV auto industry, but they do wonder what Tesla will do to attempt to take back some Mojo from Rivian.

https://electrek.co/2019/11/11/rivians-quad-motor-torque-vectoring-sets-high-bar-for-tesla-cybertruck/#more-110016

As a person who lives in a state that is very green energy production and heavy sales of electric auto's, it is amazing to hear from my fellow coworkers who are Tesla owners that they have put down deposits for the Rivian Truck.

Tesla has a big delivery to do in a few days.

Interesting Video on the comparison of the two.

 

[ccap41]

I think Rivian is the one trying to steal mojo, not the other way around. Tesla has a foothold in the industry. Rivian hasn't sold a single production-grade/registerable vehicle yet. 

[balthazar]

Sadly it seems in Germany vandals are setting Tesla auto's on Fire. Go figure.

With the propensity for Teslas to catch fire all by themselves, perhaps waiting for an investigative report is warranted before assuming arson.

[David]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

 

With the propensity for Teslas to catch fire all by themselves, perhaps waiting for an investigative report is warranted before assuming arson.

The story says they believe it was arson, yet nothing to explain why that is.

[David]

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I think Rivian is the one trying to steal mojo, not the other way around. Tesla has a foothold in the industry. Rivian hasn't sold a single production-grade/register-able vehicle yet. 

I would disagree, Tesla had mojo with their initial S sales and the Model 3 announcement. Since Rivian has made their showing, the clear increase in reservations is showing that they have taken the mojo for now. Will be interesting to see Tesla Truck release.

[ccap41]

21 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I would disagree, Tesla had mojo with their initial S sales and the Model 3 announcement. Since Rivian has made their showing, the clear increase in reservations is showing that they have taken the mojo for now. Will be interesting to see Tesla Truck release.

Tesla will immediately generate more noise because...they're established. 

[David]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Tesla will immediately generate more noise because...they're established. 

Be interesting to see the reservations numbers to compare the two once Tesla opens up reservations if they do it like they did for the 3.

[ccap41]

It sounds like they are following Tesla's exact footprints...

"Production will begin in 2020. Fully equipped vehicles with the highest performance level and largest battery pack will enter production first. Our 180 kWh and 135 kWh packs will be available at launch with the 105 kWh to follow in 2021."

[Drew Dowdell]

16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It sounds like they are following Tesla's exact footprints...

"Production will begin in 2020. Fully equipped vehicles with the highest performance level and largest battery pack will enter production first. Our 180 kWh and 135 kWh packs will be available at launch with the 105 kWh to follow in 2021."

Makes the most sense.  Early adopters are usually willing to spend more. 

[oldshurst442]

 

@riviera74

Helllllooooooo Baby!  This is the Big Bopper speakin'.    Im here to tell ya that you should um...get ready to  dust off your Old Glory, because you promised me...

Tesla is just about there...being an American Icon!!!     And if Tesla succeeds in building a factory in Germany to build Teslas and zee Germans buy Teslas...  There is no need for Tesla to outsell Toyota and GM.  In other words, Tesla does not need to become the world's biggest car maker.  Hell, Tesla does not need to become the word's largest car maker now, EV or otherwise.  But you should be proud, that if Tesla gains ground in Germany by having SOME market share in Germany by having Germans build and buy Teslas over VW and Audi, BMW and Mercedes...boy...that be something, right?

 

Tesla is rocking those Germans like a HURRICANE!!!

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by oldshurst442

[David]

Seems someone at Ford messed up with posting the early reservation system for the Mach-e. Prices start at $43k and go up.

Check out the details here. Have to say I am liking the look of the Electric Mach-e

[Robert Hall]

I do wonder if that was an intentional leak or an accident.   Depends on how they have their CDN/WCM set up, I could see the content being 'accidentally' syndicated from a UAT environment to a PROD environment,  or maybe they have 'hot' and 'cold' PROD environments with a future PROD already staged and ready to be activated via the load balancer, etc.    Been there, done that...

[David]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

I do wonder if that was an intentional leak or an accident.   Depends on how they have their CDN/WCM set up, I could see the content being 'accidentally' syndicated from a UAT environment to a PROD environment,  or maybe they have 'hot' and 'cold' PROD environments with a future PROD already staged and ready to be activated via the load balancer, etc.    Been there, done that...

Agree, I think it was staged for Sunday and someone was confused between the hot and cold production systems.

[David]

Posting as I cannot seem to remember if I posted this and did not find anything by Drew or anyone else, but Nissan has gone to production of selling a compact / mid size electric pickup in China. Nissan has released this pickup with a 250 mile range battery pack and a starting price of $18,000 dollars. This is the Dongfeng Rich 6 EV pickup.

https://electrek.co/2019/07/16/nissan-electric-pickup-truck-dongfeng-rich-6-ev/

[David]

Very Cool Postcard from South America of the Rivian Truck fleet testing.

https://stories.rivian.com/postcard-from-south-america?mc_cid=adfe91669f&mc_eid=353c4b65f1

 

[David]

More cool tech break through on solid state batteries.

 

 

A story @ocnblu can love.

https://jalopnik.com/the-only-way-for-long-term-electric-car-sales-to-work-i-1839928999

[David]

Love this write up and this story is not wrong. GM should have done more than the Bolt became.

https://jalopnik.com/this-could-have-been-you-gm-1839928376

[oldshurst442]

25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Love this write up and this story is not wrong. GM should have done more than the Bolt became.

https://jalopnik.com/this-could-have-been-you-gm-1839928376

 

From the Jalopnik link

Quote

 

Ford and GM both had the same job at hand: get a mass-market EV into production, something that people will like. Ford responded by making an all-electric sporty crossover with a name everyone will recognize. GM made the Chevy Bolt.

I never understood why GM’s response to the rise of Tesla was the Bolt.

 

 

In all fairness, Ford had an additional 3 years to launch a Tesla fighting product. 

In all fairness, GM beat Tesla to the market by offering a more or less affordable BEV BEFORE Tesla launched the Model 3.

In all fairness though to Tesla, the Model 3 is just THAT much better of an EV product than the Bolt. 

In all fairness to Ford, GM rushed the Bolt to be first to the market in thinking they got this. And it would be a good product, but Tesla is THAT much AHEAD of its competition.

The Model S is a product from 2012.  The year that the Focus EV came out in multiple markets... Its just that the Model S and Tesla is THAT far ahead of everybody else...

Porsche came up a tad short too...

In all fairness to GM, Tesla is performance oriented. The Bolt is average Joe oriented. 

The Mustang Mach-E and the Porsche and the Audi and the Jag are all performance oriented. 

The Ford product comes the closet in being a Telsa killer.

The Bolt...is just on another market level. The Bolt is NOT about performance. 

The Bolt is about urban city driving. It fails NOT because its not a performance oriented product. It fails because it fails as an urban city product... Had it had nicer lines and better interior room, it fair better.

But then again, maybe the EV market for now IS performance oriented, and the Mustang Mach-E does NOT disappoint.

I had high hopes for the Porsche Taycan, and it being a Porsche, I thought it slaughter the Model S...a 7 year older model. It does not. 

To boot, the Plaid handling version as a test mule looks to spank the Porsche on its own turf as well, on the 'Ring...

NOT a good thing for the Taycan...

 

[Robert Hall]

The Bolt is more of A Leaf competitor a mass market commuter EV.  The Cadillac EV CUV could be GM’s real Tesla competitor.  

[balthazar]

4 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

The Bolt is more of A Leaf competitor a mass market commuter EV.  The Cadillac EV CUV could be GM’s real Tesla competitor.  

By vehicle size/type; yes.

But by price; the Bolt is about 20% more than the Leaf and is actually priced higher than Model 3.

[David]

@oldshurst442 If GM had not stopped at the FWD appliance the Bolt is but also did an AWD Performance version too, I think it would have resonated more with the public. The lack of interior choices as they went too sparse and the quirky exterior have held the Bolt back. If GM would get an all black interior and add a warm brown interior, I think it would sell better.

There is so much more GM could do with the Bolt and has not waiting for version 2.0 and Ford is going to eat their lunch with the Mach e.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

@oldshurst442 If GM had not stopped at the FWD appliance the Bolt is but also did an AWD Performance version too, I think it would have resonated more with the public. The lack of interior choices as they went too sparse and the quirky exterior have held the Bolt back. If GM would get an all black interior and add a warm brown interior, I think it would sell better.

There is so much more GM could do with the Bolt and has not waiting for version 2.0 and Ford is going to eat their lunch with the Mach e.

The Jalopnik link makes a mistake in expressing an opinion that GM/Chevy had Tesla in their sites. Had Tesla products as a benchmark...

The only thing I gather Chevy/GM had on benchmarking Telsa was the price point in which the Bolt was to be sold at as compared to the Model 3. 

From the EV1, all the way to Volt gen 1 and 2, the Cadillac ELR, and then the  Bolt to the mild hybrid stuff on Malibus and Tahoes,  nothing suggests that GM ever wanted to do performance oriented EVs.  And GM could do a performance oriented EV if they chose to do so. 

They took a different market approach. 

Tesla has found that sweet spot.

It does not mean that GM's approach is wrong vis-a-vis Tesla's approach. It just means that GM's approach and its choice of its product's packaging may be at fault...

The Cadillac ELR was a 2 door personal luxury coupe econobox with an econobox derived Chevrolet version of its EV. And it also used the Chevrolet Volt's 1st generation tech instead of the 2nd generation tech, in an era when small, 2 door coupes dont sell. In an era when SUVs sell like mad. In an era when Tesla and Fisker were selling sexy body styled sedans and the Tesla was and still is eons ahead in  marketing, styling and dare I say in EV technology in some key tech areas...

The Bolt does not fail as an EV product. It fails on its intended mission as an EV product. Not in terms of it not being a capable EV, but it failing of it not being capable of delivering the marketing message that its supposedly sold upon. Packaging. And also, GM does not put full faith in that marketing message either...and so the marketing is also downplayed...

The Mustang Mach-E will only eat its lunch if EV buyers buy into a 

1. Mustang EV

2. A Ford EV capable of being a good Tesla product equal

I think point 1 wont be a problem.

But point 2 might very well be.

Some EV people have a strong bias against ICE makers and will NEVER take Ford, GM, VW, Nissan, etc, seriously and the Mach-E, as good as it seems on paper, does not have a chance and is DOA...

 

 

 

 

 

[David]

Lords town motors says they will have their pickup truck out in Q4 of 2020 beating Tesla with a superior electric truck. Their base price will be $52,500 before Fed incentive.

https://electrek.co/2019/11/21/lordstown-motors-beat-tesla-to-market-electric-pickup/

[balthazar]

Weird; it looks like a truck.

[ocnblu]

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

Weird; it looks like a truck.

Still has very narrow functionality though, being an EV.

[balthazar]

For actual truck use; yes. But we know some folk just use trucks for commuting.

[David]

5 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Still has very narrow functionality though, being an EV.

We do not know that, there is nothing that says this is a limited truck. Ford has proven that their EV truck is not limited in hauling or towing. 1.2 million pounds of trailer pulling is not limited.

[balthazar]

^ There's no evidence to the contrary.
There's no price-competitive, capacity-competitive, range-competitive, functionality-competitive EV truck out there. Yet.
While it may be blissful to accept every start-up OEM's marketing claims at face value, I for one need to see some objective testing and hard data.

[David]

Seem CEO Mary of GM and Ford have both confirmed updated time lines in which both companies plan to have their full Electric Pickups out by Fall 2021 at the latest.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1126167_gm-electric-truck-due-fall-2021-aiming-for-traditional-and-lifestyle-buyers

Makes me think that in winter auto show season, aka Jan to March 2020 we might see a concept EV truck, for sure by fall / winter 2020.

Mary says their global modular skateboard platform will underpin the EV auto's in China and North America as GM plans a global roll out of EVs.

[David]

How efficient is that Cyber Truck? An aerospace engineer found out.

https://electrek.co/2019/11/25/tesla-cybertruck-aerodynamics-cfd-rendering/

[David]

Love all the new stuff from SEMA. Gotta love this V8 swap ready Electric crate motor. 240hp / 340 lb-ft of torque.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/30431/electric-v-8-crate-motor-from-electric-gt-is-sema-swap-ready

 

[Drew Dowdell]

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

Love all the new stuff from SEMA. Gotta love this V8 swap ready Electric crate motor. 240hp / 340 lb-ft of torque.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/30431/electric-v-8-crate-motor-from-electric-gt-is-sema-swap-ready

 

That's interesting because that's just under the spec of the old LT1 in the '96 Chevy Impala. 

[Robert Hall]

The electric truck market is going to have a lot of choices in a few years..going to be interesting..

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29890843/full-electric-pickup-trucks/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_cdb&utm_medium=email&date=112619&utm_campaign=nl18693366&src=nl

[David]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That's interesting because that's just under the spec of the old LT1 in the '96 Chevy Impala. 

Agree, great option for older auto's.

[balthazar]

Quote

Electric GT created a drop-in electric motor that resembles the gas-guzzling V-8s enthusiasts will likely have to remove from their car’s engine bay soon.

Cluelessidioticwritersayswhat?

Future safety/MPG/emission laws do not effect already-existing autos. There's literally no need to use fear-mongering tactics about legalities in order to push a discretionary consumer product.

Edited November 26, 2019 by balthazar

[David]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Cluelessidioticwritersayswhat?

Future safety/MPG/emission laws do not effect already-existing autos. There's literally no need to use fear-mongering tactics about legalities in order to push a discretionary consumer product.

So true and totally agree with you, that is an idiot writer.

The comment section is so Funny.

Quote:

...Electric GT created a drop-in electric motor that resembles the gas-guzzling V-8s enthusiasts will likely have to remove from their car’s engine bay soon

Bro, herb may be legal in some states, but please do not write while engaging in recreational activities, and leave wishful thinking for op-eds.

[riviera74]

16 hours ago, dfelt said:

Love all the new stuff from SEMA. Gotta love this V8 swap ready Electric crate motor. 240hp / 340 lb-ft of torque.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/30431/electric-v-8-crate-motor-from-electric-gt-is-sema-swap-ready

 

Looks great but who would buy it and remove and replace their current V8 with this EV engine?  I personally do not see much of a market for this engine.

[David]

2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Looks great but who would buy it and remove and replace their current V8 with this EV engine?  I personally do not see much of a market for this engine.

Simple, someone who has a dead V8 and would like to convert to EV, this hooks up to their existing Transmission. As a conversion package, for those that love their old auto but need a new motor and have thought about buying an EV, this is an option.

[Robert Hall]

How about the Neuron EV T-One?  Yet another EV truck concept.  Very different from the Cybertruck.   Interesting cab forward front, kind of like older vans.

https://www.autoblog.com/photos/neuron-ev-t-one-electric-pickup/

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

^ Maybe they also can help the newly-rudderless Musk and offer him their design, like Nikola did. Thats 89 billion times more appealing.

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Simple, someone who has a dead V8 and would like to convert to EV, this hooks up to their existing Transmission. As a conversion package, for those that love their old auto but need a new motor and have thought about buying an EV, this is an option.

We can hardly find people who are in the new car market to go BE, how many vintage vehicle customers would there be? Would also like to know how they allow for bolting up to dozens of different transmissions?

[David]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

How about the Neuron EV T-One?  Yet another EV truck concept.  Very different from the Cybertruck.   Interesting cab forward front, kind of like older vans.

https://www.autoblog.com/photos/neuron-ev-t-one-electric-pickup/

 

Love it, so much better than the Cyber Truck as @balthazar stated, 89 billion times better than the Cyber Truck.

 

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ Maybe they also can help the newly-rudderless Musk and offer him their design, like Nikola did. Thats 89 billion times more appealing.

We can hardly find people who are in the new car market to go BE, how many vintage vehicle customers would there be? Would also like to know how they allow for bolting up to dozens of different transmissions?

They offer a complete series of connection plates that align the shaft of the tranny to the output shaft of the electric motor.

[balthazar]

^ I read the link. Highly under-developed at this point. No word on cost. You have to source (and incorporate into the vehicle) your own batteries. And only hooks up to manual trans cars; that's not going to fly.

Edited November 27, 2019 by balthazar

[ocnblu]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ I read the link. Highly under-developed at this point. No word on cost. You have to source (and incorporate into the vehicle) your own batteries. And only hooks up to manual trans cars; that's not going to fly.

HUSH... there IS NO DOWNSIDE to EV life.  You WILL be assimilated!

[oldshurst442]

5 hours ago, ocnblu said:

HUSH... there IS NO DOWNSIDE to EV life.  You WILL be assimilated!

There IS no downside...

Even if range will NEVER be improved to what we got today, which is almost 300 miles. Not quite 300...its still NOT a deterrent for a lot of folk. 

In Greece, on the island where my momma grew up, even up until the 1990s...AD... there was not many gasoline stations around. And as we all know, Europe and Greece limit engine displacement, plus its an island where thousands of years  have gone by where donkey and horses were the main transport, so even a Chevrolet Sonic would have a hard time to get around let alone a full sized, big blocked American V8 land yacht would be possible to be  driven in,  would be a downside.

Here in America, we dont think twice about that...right?

So, it be a downside to own a 427 Impala SS in Kefalonia, right?   Or even a 350 cubic inch LT1 1996 Impala SS, right?

The downside of owning an EV in Lancaster, might be a downside for you...but for you, in Lancaster, its a 1st world problem...

Unless of course Lancaster, in 2020, is still like my mom's Greek village from like, the 1990s...BC. As in BEFORE CHRIST...

If, in Greece, on that stupid island where my momma came from, there are people that consider buying EVs, why in the phoque would someone from the good 'ole USofA find it such a thorn on their side is beyond my comprehension?

As you may or may not know, 2 summers ago I took the family to Greece, and yes, I talked to local yocals about EVs, I did NOT meet one sumbitch that was against EVs... anecdotal, sure, but maybe its the dumb Greek way of life that does not limit their spirits and their progress...I dont know...

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

10 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I dont know...

Someone please provide cliff notes.   Thanks.

[David]

Very cool conversion. We will get a new EV microbus in 2021 as a 2022 model and yet VW supplied a very clean old VW Microbus to EV West https://evwest.com/catalog/ which is well known for their EV conversions and they even kept the manual shifter for those wanting to row but gave a all original interior with an EV power train.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1126223_vw-project-e-bus-electric-microbus-builds-buzz-with-e-golf-transplant

[David]

Seems FCA has joined up with Faraday Future to produce a Jeep Renegade 4x4e.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/02/strange-bedfellows-fiat-chrysler-and-faraday-future-working-together-on-electric-vehicles/

Interesting question to ponder, how much more empty assembly plants will North America have by 2025 with the growth of EV startups? 🤔

Lucid finally has financing as they start actual construction on their huge $700 million dollar factory in Arizona.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/02/lucid-first-image-ev-factory/

With a secure $1 billion from Saudi Arabia, they seem to have the money to move forward with building their wicked fast 4 door sedan.

[David]

Only in Canada would this happen or would it?

Seems a very long dedicated Infiniti buyer, aka mayor of the city wanted to go EV and yet Infiniti does not have an EV yet till 2021 as a 2022 model. Local Infiniti dealer who always sold to him got a used Tesla 3 in trade. The mayor bought it till Infiniti has their EVs.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/09/infiniti-delivers-tesla-model-3-loyal-customer/

VW Congratulates Tesla for Swiss Car of the Year, Challenges them with the ID 3 that will be out next year in a Paid AD by VW.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/09/tesla-vw-kudo-ad-car-of-the-year-award-challenges-id3/#more-114331

Gotta hand it to VW, this is smart marketing.

The message in the ad is in German and roughly translates to this (via Google Translate):

“Swiss car of the year 2020 Was it too easy, Tesla?

Dear Tesla Model 3, I congratulate you on winning. Next year’s competition will be stronger. See you next year.

Greetings from the ID.3”

[David]

So we have Tesla 3 smashing into Police car in Connecticut in Autopilot mode. OUCH Idiot owner was Checking on his dog in the back seat when the auto hit the police car dealing with a disabled auto on the side of the road and hit the disabled auto before stopping with hitting the second police car there too. 🙄 IDIOTS, Driving is your only responsibility, not the damn dog.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-model-3-autopilot-crash-police-car/

Yet now Mercedes-Benz is talking up their self driving S-Class cars in California.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/mercedes-benz-bosch-self-driving-s-class-san-jose/

🤔 This does make one want to think twice.

Seems Musk is out driving the Cybertruck and cannot help but drive over stuff. I can honestly say I hate it, the rear seats have head room below the front so your always blocked from any view. Clearly he cannot drive something so big.