Will Competition Destroy Tesla?

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Worth it for the growth rate they have, up 50% last year (when the industry overall was down 16%) and up 54% this year.  

I have three words for that.

Non-sustainable  

Business

Model

 

i.e.—Making zero profit on your actual product for more than a decade is not a sustainable business model long term. Overinflated stocks do not a successful company make so can we just stop the wash, rinse, repeat nature of your defense of them that clearly ignores very important facts like that?

[David]

Tesla DEATH CROSS has appeared, not since February 28th 2019 was the last death cross and the stock dropped 44% before rebuilding to it's high on Jan 26th 2021 @ $883.09 and is now trading at $629.53 currently today. To NOT go into a death cross, the stock would have to close up 12% today at $729.00.

Death cross is something that is closely watched by wall street as it is indicative of losses to come and as happened in 2019, major losses happened before the start of the current climb at the end of 2019.

With factory delays in Germany and Texas, Major recall of all TESLA Auto's built in China for both China and Europe markets on top of the loss of half a billion dollars in carbon credit sales quarterly, Tesla appears to be lined up for a major drop and extended loses. The roughly $20 billion in the bank could disappear by the end of this year.

A Tesla ‘death cross’ has appeared, for the first time in more than 2 years - MarketWatch

On the other Front, GM just got a major boost from wall street as it is seen as a major disruptor with their short and long term plan for becoming an EV only company finally capitalizing on the amount of R&D GM has done over the last number of decades in technology. GM is a far better investment than Tesla right now.

GM stock jumps after Wedbush analyst calls it a ‘disruptive technology play’ - MarketWatch

Then you have the biggest bull on Tesla saying that GM is the place to invest money.

Tesla bull calls this auto giant’s $35 billion electric strategy a ‘renaissance’ and says the stock could soar - MarketWatch

Then you have the Stellantis EV Day yesterday that shows them having trucks, suvs and cars out by 2024 that are pure electric such as Dodges eMuscle cars.

Might be a good thing that Musk is living in a little home as he might be hurting more than anyone knows with how strong Detroit's auto companies are coming on with BEVs.

[balthazar]

Question is; will investors totally disregard all fundamentals and buy these electric-committed OEMs like they did with Tesla, or will they hang back (esp in light of Tesla's current and near-future gloomy stock outlook) and wait to see if anyone makes a strong & consistant profit on electrics?

It's illogical to assume Tesla is going to take a nosedive and the other OEMs are somehow going to make a profit inline with their best recent years'. 

[David]

Seems Tesla is going to have to have some focus time from the CEO, space needs to take the back seat after FORD Mustang MACH-E takes top spot in Car and Drivers Electric Vehicle of the Year Award 2021.

Mustang Mach-E Takes Top Spot in Car and Driver’s Inaugural Electric Vehicle of the Year Award 2021 | Ford Media Center

Contenders: Audi e-tron, Kia Niro, Nissan Leaf Plus, Polestar 2, Porsche Taycan 4S PBP, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Tesla Model S Long Range Plus, Tesla Model Y Performance, Volkswagen ID.4 and Volvo XC40 Recharge. Car and Driver employed instrumented testing, subjective evaluation and side-by-side comparison in both practicality and entertainment value.

[David]

Seems this is starting to hit home as a reviewer for UK that was invited to test drive the Ioniq 5 from Korea is saying hold off on ordering the Tesla 3 till you test drive the Ioniq 5. Tesla Y is not available in the UK as to why the person compares it to the Tesla 3, but clearly it is equal on price, but gives so much more.

 

[balthazar]

"relaxing sort of wallow" 😆

I could never get over the horrendous looks. I think it's going to be historically quick out-of-date. And it sounds like a bunch of cheapness throughout.

[David]

The Best or Nothing at all seems to be a Failure for Mercedes as the first of the EQS test drives come in and where there are some success in certain areas, there is just as many failures and as pointed out in the review, it would appear that Mercedes is playing massive catch up to other automakers and especially Tesla. For a German company that was supposed to be building a competitor that would beat the Tesla S, I have to say that Mercedes has failed.

First drive review: 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS fuses electric-car wizardry with S-Class serenity (greencarreports.com)

No FRUNK, In fact there seems to be many areas that Mercedes does not want anyone to get access too, just supposed to drive it and take it to Mercedes when you need work done it would appear. This review makes me wonder if Mercedes will ever be able to catch up to Tesla? 🤔

Do not get me wrong there are reviewers that drink the Koolaid and no matter how far behind Tesla, they still think Mercedes is the best.

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS First Drive Review: Funky New Luxury (motor1.com)

Here are additional reviews that upon looking at them, I have to say, Mercedes S class is a second place uber luxury car that does not totally deliver on being the Best or nothing! It seems to be a half-way also ran.

Mercedes-Benz EQS First Drive Test | Mercedes-Benz Worldwide (mercedes-world.com)

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS First Drive Review: An EV like nothing else - SlashGear

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS first drive review: Defining a segment - Roadshow (cnet.com)

First review Mercedes EQS 450+: Is Mercedes EQS an S-Class electric? (mercedesblog.com)

Mercedes EQS first drive: S-Class luxury in an EV (msn.com)

Mercedes EQS first drive: S-Class luxury in an EV | Engadget

 

[surreal1272]

@David I will say this. Performance aside, most reviews spoke highly of the luxury component and the interior of the EQS but as a luxury maker, that's the way a Benz should be. It's downfall is less than stellar performance numbers (again, we have heard non-stop crowing about Tesla's 0-60 numbers as the be all, end all so let's see if it's a big deal for a $100K Benz) and looking like a ten year old jellybean from VW.

[David]

12 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

@David I will say this. Performance aside, most reviews spoke highly of the luxury component and the interior of the EQS but as a luxury maker, that's the way a Benz should be. It's downfall is less than stellar performance numbers (again, we have heard non-stop crowing about Tesla's 0-60 numbers as the be all, end all so let's see if it's a big deal for a $100K Benz) and looking like a ten year old jellybean from VW.

So true, when you have a forum member that constantly crows about the 0 to 60 number being the magic and then the company that is supposed to be the standard bearer fails to deliver on that, it does make one go H'mmmmmmmmmm! 🤔

I agree with you that there are many solid comments on the interior and the serene ride. Was surprised to see that you get a very much pedestrian dash in the EQS 450 compared to the top of the line 580. 

[balthazar]

What does the '450' and '550' stand for/mean?

[David]

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

What does the '450' and '550' stand for/mean?

Sorry, meant to say the 450 versus 580. 450 is RWD only with lower luxury packages, 580 is AWD with higher luxury packages and larger battery options.

Mercedes-Benz EQS Enters Production, More Specs Revealed (insideevs.com)

Mercedes-Benz EQS spces:

• up to 770 km (479 miles) of WLTP range
• two battery versions:
  107.8 kWh of usable battery capacity (12 modules, about 9 kWh each)
  90 kWh of usable battery capacity (10 modules)
  CATL lithium-ion cells (pouch cells or hard-case/prismatic cells), NCM 811 chemistry
  400-volt architecture (396 V nominal)
• 0-100 km/h (62 mph):
  EQS 450+ RWD: 6.2 seconds
  EQS 580 4MATIC AWD: 4.3 seconds
• top speed of 210 km/h (131 mph)
• powertrain options:
  EQS 450+ rear-wheel drive (single motor): 245 kW and 568 Nm
  EQS 580 4MATIC all-wheel drive (dual motor): 385 kW (255 kW rear and 135 kW front) and 855 Nm
  performance version: 560 kW in the future
  both motors are permanently excited synchronous motors (PSM)
  peak regenerative brake up to 290 kW (580 4MATIC) or 186 kW (450+)
• AC charging (on-board): three-phase 11 kW standard and 22 kW option (Europe)
  Charging time (107.8 kWh): 5 hours at 22 kW AC, 10 hours at 11 kW AC
• DC fast charging: up to 200 kW;
  10-80% SOC in 31 minutes
  up to 280-300 km (174-186 miles) of WLTP range to be replenished in just 15 minutes
  Plug & Charge feature
• Length/width/height: 5216/1926/1512
  Length/width/height (USA): 5265/1926/1513
• Cd value starting from 0.20 (EQS 450+); 0.209 (EQS 580 4MATIC)
• Boot capacity, VDA: 610-1770 L
• Weight in roadworthy condition: 2480 kg (EQS 450+); 2585 kg (EQS 580 4MATIC)
  Payload: 465-545 kg (EQS 450+); 475-550 kg (EQS 580 4MATIC)
  Perm. gross vehicle weight: 2945-3025 kg (EQS 450+); 3060-3135 (EQS 580 4MATIC)
• EVA platform

[balthazar]

What do the names mean?

[David]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

What do the names mean?

That is an excellent question. 

Seems there web site is useless as it does not cover what the names mean and there seems to be no relation of the number to Torque or HP.

2022 EQS Sedan | Future Vehicles | Mercedes-Benz USA (mbusa.com)

I have looked through many websites and still no info on what the names mean. I did get from this story that the 450+ which is what America gets means the + is the larger battery pack, but we only get the largest battery pack, where in Europe and the Asian rim they can get a smaller 90 kW battery pack. So they will have a 450 or 450+ models. We just get 450+.

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS First Drive Review: Funky New Luxury (motor1.com)

Even on their global web site there is no clear answer as to what the numbers mean on any of their EQ products.

The new all-electric EQS. (mercedes-benz.com)

Even the Daimler web site FAILS to explain what the numbers mean.

The EQS: The first electric vehicle in the luxury class | Daimler

Sorry, wish I knew.

@smk4565 Do you have an actual link to explain what the EQS 450 and 580 mean?

[David]

Seems in Tesla quarterly update on the company, they never stated it as delayed, but after multiple same questions on when will the Cyber truck start production, the only answer from Musk was "It will go into production after we start production of the Model Y at the Texas plant by the end of the year." 

Yes this means the work on Cyber truck test mules to production will happen later in 2022 indicating that they will start deliveries in 2023 way behind Rivian, Ford and GM.

Tesla all but confirms Cybertruck production delay until 2022 (electrek.co)

Quote from the Quarterly conference call:

Lars Moravy, vice president of vehicle engineering at Tesla, responded instead:

 

 

“Cybertruck is at a stage where we finished basic engineering of the architecture of the vehicle. With the Cybertruck, we are redefining how a vehicle is being made. As Elon said, it carries much of the structural pack and large casting design of the Model Y being built in Berlin and Austin. Obviously, those take priority over the Cybertruck, but we are moving into the beta phases of Cybertruck later this year and we will be looking to ramp up production at Giga Texas after Model Y is up and running.”

[smk4565]

13 hours ago, David said:

That is an excellent question. 

Seems there web site is useless as it does not cover what the names mean and there seems to be no relation of the number to Torque or HP.

2022 EQS Sedan | Future Vehicles | Mercedes-Benz USA (mbusa.com)

I have looked through many websites and still no info on what the names mean. I did get from this story that the 450+ which is what America gets means the + is the larger battery pack, but we only get the largest battery pack, where in Europe and the Asian rim they can get a smaller 90 kW battery pack. So they will have a 450 or 450+ models. We just get 450+.

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS First Drive Review: Funky New Luxury (motor1.com)

Even on their global web site there is no clear answer as to what the numbers mean on any of their EQ products.

The new all-electric EQS. (mercedes-benz.com)

Even the Daimler web site FAILS to explain what the numbers mean.

The EQS: The first electric vehicle in the luxury class | Daimler

Sorry, wish I knew.

@smk4565 Do you have an actual link to explain what the EQS 450 and 580 mean?

They don't mean anything.  They make an S450 and S580, so it was just easier to call the EQS 450 and 580.  Essentially the 450 is the inline six equivalent and the 580 is the V8 performance equivalent.  Although I thought 580 was always dumb, I don't know why they didn't just stay with 550 or even 560 since that was a displacement badge of their past. 

[smk4565]

On 7/26/2021 at 11:05 AM, surreal1272 said:

@David I will say this. Performance aside, most reviews spoke highly of the luxury component and the interior of the EQS but as a luxury maker, that's the way a Benz should be. It's downfall is less than stellar performance numbers (again, we have heard non-stop crowing about Tesla's 0-60 numbers as the be all, end all so let's see if it's a big deal for a $100K Benz) and looking like a ten year old jellybean from VW.

There is going to be an AMG version, and EQS is a much bigger car than the Model S.  EQE will have an AMG version and I would suspect be a stronger performance, much like how an E63 is faster than an S63 because same powertrain and big weight/size difference between them.  

It is quite possible too that nothing will beat the Model S Plaid in a straight line, a $700,000 Ferrari ST90 Stradale can't even beat it in a quarter mile.  I mean AMG One will surely beat the Plaid, but I don't see any other sedans or even sub $1 million sports cars doing it.

[surreal1272]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

There is going to be an AMG version, and EQS is a much bigger car than the Model S.  EQE will have an AMG version and I would suspect be a stronger performance, much like how an E63 is faster than an S63 because same powertrain and big weight/size difference between them.  

It is quite possible too that nothing will beat the Model S Plaid in a straight line, a $700,000 Ferrari ST90 Stradale can't even beat it in a quarter mile.  I mean AMG One will surely beat the Plaid, but I don't see any other sedans or even sub $1 million sports cars doing it.

But according to you, those kind of 0-60 numbers aren't good enough for everyone else so thanks for confirming the exception being Benz because there is "going to be" a supposed faster version. BTW, it is not jouster the Plaid S that dusts that Benz. It's pretty much every trim of the Model S doing that (they all do better than 3 seconds). Just interesting to see the excuses granted to one but not the other. 

[balthazar]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I don't know why they didn't just stay with 550 or even 560 since that was a displacement badge of their past.

Those haven't been "displacement" badges in a decade; s550 has been an 's470' since 2012. So they haven't meant anything in a while, and they mean even less going forward.

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

EQS is a much bigger car than the Model S.

It's not that much larger, but it's a half ton fatter...

Edited July 27, 2021 by balthazar

[smk4565]

32 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Those haven't been "displacement" badges in a decade; s550 has been an 's470' since 2012. So they haven't meant anything in a while, and they mean even less going forward.

It's not that much larger, but it's a half ton fatter...

Car 1 dimensions:  196" L x 77" W x 57" tall

Car 2 dimensions: 207" L x  76" W x 60" tall

This is a bigger size gap than existed between Cadillac CTS and CT6.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

But according to you, those kind of 0-60 numbers aren't good enough for everyone else so thanks for confirming the exception being Benz because there is "going to be" a supposed faster version. BTW, it is not jouster the Plaid S that dusts that Benz. It's pretty much every trim of the Model S doing that (they all do better than 3 seconds). Just interesting to see the excuses granted to one but not the other. 

AMG better have some serious performance in the works, and not just on EQS, but even more so on EQE that will be the more performance oriented sedan.  It's possible that no one can beat Tesla performance, so Mercedes or anyone else will have to beat them in other ways.

Mercedes plans to convert the whole line to EV, not every Mercedes is an AMG speed demon, only like 10-15% are AMG, the bulk of their customers are coming for luxury first.  The AMG cars are the ones that will have to match Tesla's performance.

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

AMG better have some serious performance in the works,

I sense some doubt in those chosen words of yours and your subsequent sentences...

 

[oldshurst442]

I am not sure that Mercedes and AMG have got the EV technology figured out yet...

But I do have to admit that Mercedes does know how to do a luxury EV interior right! 

And it also has a lot to do with the bluish ambient lighting both on the dash from driver to passenger and on the bottom areas of the cabin and in the little open storage compartments underneath the central console and doors and in the footwells. 

Very elegant for a neo luxury EV interior. 

[smk4565]

22 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I sense some doubt in those chosen words of yours and your subsequent sentences...

 

AMG had the Nurburgring record for SUV, until the Urus beat them, they have the wagon and 4 door car records still, and they are half a second behind a specialty equipped Porsche for overall.  Mercedes-AMG have 7 consecutive F1 titles.  These people know performance, so I am confident they'll have the performance they need.  I also recognize that Tesla might be a more formidable competitor than Audi or BMW have been.  

[oldshurst442]

^^^  They dont know...have NO PHOQUING IDEA about EV tech and EV performance...

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

But I do have to admit that Mercedes does know how to do a luxury EV interior right!

Way too overwrought. 

[David]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

I am not sure that Mercedes and AMG have got the EV technology figured out yet...

But I do have to admit that Mercedes does know how to do a luxury EV interior right! 

And it also has a lot to do with the bluish ambient lighting both on the dash from driver to passenger and on the bottom areas of the cabin and in the little open storage compartments underneath the central console and doors and in the footwells. 

Very elegant for a neo luxury EV interior. 

I agree with you that what we see in the concept picture above is luxury, but I have yet to see the lighting like that on the actual production car.

That will be interesting to see if they actually delivered or not.

[David]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

AMG had the Nurburgring record for SUV, until the Urus beat them, they have the wagon and 4 door car records still, and they are half a second behind a specialty equipped Porsche for overall.  Mercedes-AMG have 7 consecutive F1 titles.  These people know performance, so I am confident they'll have the performance they need.  I also recognize that Tesla might be a more formidable competitor than Audi or BMW have been.  

If this statement was true, then why did Mercedes just buy an electric motor company to power their auto's?

YASA makes decent motors, but has not made performance motors per say and yet Mercedes-Benz is on record of buying Yasa Motors of UK to build their AMG electric motors.

Charged EVs | Mercedes-Benz acquires motor technology firm YASA - Charged EVs

Electric Motor Technology Company YASA Acquired by Mercedes-Benz | Business Wire

Quote from the press release:

YASA’s expertise and resources will be focused on delivering world-beating electric drive technologies for AMG-Mercedes’ electric-only platform.

Philipp Schiemer, CEO of Mercedes-AMG and Head of the Top End Vehicle Group, said, “We warmly welcome YASA to Mercedes-Benz. YASA’s impressive axial-flux technology allows future fully electric Mercedes-AMG performance cars to stay a step ahead of the competition. Thanks to electric motors with higher power density and continuous torque delivery we will redefine the future of driving performance.”

YASA’s acquisition by Mercedes-Benz | A message from our CEO, Chris Harris

🤔

Guess this means Germans CANNOT build Performance Leading EV motors. 

🤔

[surreal1272]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The AMG cars are the ones that will have to match Tesla's performance.

So, in other words, because ALL of Tesla smokes Benz in the 0-60 realm, it's the much higher priced (than Tesla) AMG that will compete with Tesla in the speed category. Again, interesting excuses given here.

[smk4565]

10 hours ago, David said:

If this statement was true, then why did Mercedes just buy an electric motor company to power their auto's?

YASA makes decent motors, but has not made performance motors per say and yet Mercedes-Benz is on record of buying Yasa Motors of UK to build their AMG electric motors.

Charged EVs | Mercedes-Benz acquires motor technology firm YASA - Charged EVs

Electric Motor Technology Company YASA Acquired by Mercedes-Benz | Business Wire

Quote from the press release:

YASA’s expertise and resources will be focused on delivering world-beating electric drive technologies for AMG-Mercedes’ electric-only platform.

Philipp Schiemer, CEO of Mercedes-AMG and Head of the Top End Vehicle Group, said, “We warmly welcome YASA to Mercedes-Benz. YASA’s impressive axial-flux technology allows future fully electric Mercedes-AMG performance cars to stay a step ahead of the competition. Thanks to electric motors with higher power density and continuous torque delivery we will redefine the future of driving performance.”

YASA’s acquisition by Mercedes-Benz | A message from our CEO, Chris Harris

🤔

Guess this means Germans CANNOT build Performance Leading EV motors. 

🤔

That’s a good acquisition, and Daimler is a global company.  The Mercedes F1 team is based in England, makes sense to buy up a British EV motor company.  

[ccap41]

On 7/26/2021 at 10:48 PM, balthazar said:

What do the names mean?

Nothing anymore. The meanings went away once they started turbocharging engines as they used to be displacement. 

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

So, in other words, because ALL of Tesla smokes Benz in the 0-60 realm, it's the much higher priced (than Tesla) AMG that will compete with Tesla in the speed category. Again, interesting excuses given here.

Gotta spend a couple million bucks at Mercedes to compete with a 100k Tesla. 

[oldshurst442]

18 hours ago, balthazar said:

Way too overwrought. 

Yes. I could see why you would think this way. You are consistent with this view as you dont like the French Bordelo red velour interiors of American luxury cars of the '70s. You think those are overwrought as well. And you would be correct with both views of this Mercedes EV and the '70s land yachts.

I, however, prefer overwrought-ness for my luxury cars. I wouldnt have them any other way.   

 

[Robert Hall]

38 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

I, however, prefer overwrought-ness for my luxury cars. I wouldnt have them any other way.   

 

Agreed, what's the point in having a luxury car without some excess?   Leave the gray plastic despair interiors to the rental cars and econoboxes.   These are what I would consider proper luxury interiors, circa 2021....way more welcoming and comfortable looking than a Tesla interior..

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

6 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Agreed, what's the point in having a luxury car without some excess?

Luxury and being rich is ALL about the excess.   

There are some excess-es that I wouldnt be indulging in if I were stinkin' rich, like having a butler or chauffeur, but being wrapped in the laps of luxury with French bordelo red velour and leather in my car AND bedroom is very shagadelic baby, yeah!

 

 

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

Luxury and being rich is ALL about the excess.   

There are some excess-es that I wouldnt be indulging in if I were stinkin' rich, like having a butler or chauffeur, but being wrapped in the laps of luxury with French bordelo red velour and leather in my car AND bedroom is very shagadelic baby, yeah!

 

If money were no object, I'd live here (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36291053/montana-50-car-garage-mansion-for-sale/) and fill that garage w/ a variety of 80s-90s cars and some modern ones, and some older...

[David]

Tesla has decided that Americans do not pay enough for their auto's and as such has raised prices again for the 6th consecutive time this year. Prices on the Model Y alone went up $5,500 as Tesla holds the line in China to build market share, but continues to raise prices to boost profitability.

In America the Model Y will start at $53,990 compared to China where it starts at $42,394.

Alternatives to Tesla cannot come soon enough for the market to make prices more competative.

Analysis: Tesla hikes electric car prices in U.S.; holds line in China | Reuters

It would appear Tesla has due to raising prices around the globe, but mostly in the US off set their half a billion loss in Green House Gas credits and reported at the quarterly report that they were only able to sell $354 million in credits to other auto companies.

Tesla posts record profits, offers muddy outlook for batteries, Cybertruck | Reuters

[oldshurst442]

16 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

If money were no object, I'd live here (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36291053/montana-50-car-garage-mansion-for-sale/) and fill that garage w/ a variety of 80s-90s cars and some modern ones, and some older...

Ive seen that house in a mansions for sale ad or article of awesome dream car garages or something like that 2-3 years ago.

thanx for posting it again! 🤙

 

[David]

17 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

If money were no object, I'd live here (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36291053/montana-50-car-garage-mansion-for-sale/) and fill that garage w/ a variety of 80s-90s cars and some modern ones, and some older...

Cool post Robert, I could live there, but not the wife. I have to laugh at all the comments and how many people say it is too isolated, cars are useless in the fall, winter and spring there. So much negativity and yet really not much about the cool garage that also has auto chargers 220V for BEVs. 

I would love that kind of garage and an auto collection but here in Western Washington. Sadly, only a pipe dream for me.  

[Robert Hall]

10 minutes ago, David said:

Cool post Robert, I could live there, but not the wife. I have to laugh at all the comments and how many people say it is too isolated, cars are useless in the fall, winter and spring there. So much negativity and yet really not much about the cool garage that also has auto chargers 220V for BEVs. 

I would love that kind of garage and an auto collection but here in Western Washington. Sadly, only a pipe dream for me.  

Yeah, I'd love to have a place like that in central Colorado in the mountains...a pipe dream also, but fun to speculate.  For the winters, I'd want a few SUVs in the garage.  

There is another place for sale that popped up in the last year in Colorado on the Front Range w/ a 100 car garage, but the house was huge and horrifically blingy.  I'd want something more subdued alpine ski lodge style w/ about 5000sq ft on one story. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

I wouldnt want a huge house if money was no object. Just big enough.  Around 2200-2500 sq ft.    Not including the basement. Maybe even at 2500 sq feet might be too big.   On a huge mansion too many rooms are not occupied being left unused and unloved...  

However, a huge 20-30-40-50 car garage on the lot with dynos and lifts and EV chargers and all kinds of memorabilia on the walls (automotive or otherwise) complete with my own mechanics with CNC machines and 3D printers (for repairs and restorations)  would be my definition of dream home. 

This huge garage would compliment my fetish for an arcade/movie and song game room that would also be part of my residence. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

My current house is just over 2000 sq ft on 3 levels, and with the finished basement, about 2700 sq ft total over 4 levels.  I could do with another 1000 or so sq ft, preferably all on one level.   When I bought it 4 1/2 years ago, I hadn't lived in a house w/ stairs in almost 30 years.  Stairs not good for knees and hips.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

My current house (is there gonna be a time where I sell this one to downsize even further as my wife and I age and the kids are outta the house flying on their own?) is on two levels plus the basement.  Just slightly less than 2000 sq ft.  (not including the basement) 

Yeah...I think all on one level (plus the basement) is best as we age.  HA! HA! HA!

 

 

[ccap41]

Our place is 5300sqft but it's certainly not your conventional house. 

[balthazar]

Just over 2200 SF 1-story here, plus unfinished basement, attached 2-car garage, and detached 1152 SF 4-car garage.

I think my ideal would be closer to 2500 SF (there's 4 people in here currently), and I'd ideally like the detached to be... attached. I could use a 6 car garage there (currently 3 in the 4-bay now). Make it 8.

So.... a 2500 SF ranch, with an attached 10 car garage. 

Make it 12.

[Robert Hall]

Anyway, we got pretty thoroughly sidetracked...back to the original topic, it will be interesting to see how Tesla does against larger, established competitors and the plethora of upstarts in the coming years.  

[ccap41]

The only upstart I see lasting and establishing themselves is Rivian. Everything else will flop, imo. 

[Robert Hall]

Lucid seems pretty far along with their product.. 

[Drew Dowdell]

4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

The only upstart I see lasting and establishing themselves is Rivian. Everything else will flop, imo. 

 

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Lucid seems pretty far along with their product.. 

Rivian, Lucid, and Fisker I think have a shot at making it.    And while Fisker is the shakiest of the bunch, they're the one that targets the biggest market segment outside of Full-Size pickups.  They're preparing a CR-V sized EV that is supposed to start at $37k with a starting range of 250 miles.  They've also been tapped to make the next EV Pope-mobile... so if they have that blessing, they should do okay.  

None of these, however, will take down Tesla.  Tesla has developed a rabid base of fanbois that even Apple wishes it could cultivate.

[David]

Based on the Q2 report and statements, it seems Cybertruck will start production late 2022 for delivery in 2023.

Tesla Cybertruck release date: Elon Musk reveals a disappointing update (inverse.com)

Quoting the story which pulled this current stated delivery schedule from the web site:

Tesla’s website lists three versions of the Cybertruck:

• The single-motor rear-wheel-drive version retailing for $39,900. This car will start production in late 2022.
• The dual-motor all-wheel-drive car retailing for $49,900. This car will start production in late 2021.
• The tri-motor all-wheel-drive car retailing for $69,900. This car will start production in late 2021.

Then you have the following comments from the person who ran the Q2 financial update.

But Moravy’s comments during the latest earnings call suggest it could get pushed back to 2022:

“The Cybertruck is currently in its alpha stages. We finished basic engineering architecture of a vehicle. With the Cybertruck, we're redefining how vehicles are made. As Elon said it carries much of the structural pack and large casting designs of the Model Y being built in Berlin and Austin. Obviously, those take priority over the Cybertruck, but we are moving into the beta phases of Cybertruck later this year, and we'll be looking to ramp that in production in Giga Texas after Model Y is up and going.”

Fact is that the Model Y will go into production end of 2021, this clearly pushes the cyber truck into a 2022 production with 2023 deliveries.

[David]

Seeing this made me realize I forgot to mention that in the Q2 status report, the Tesla Semi Truck manufacturing has slipped to 2022 along with 4680 battery cell production that both Semi and Cybertruck is to use.

Part of the problem that this story points out is that while testing is wrapping up on the battery cells themselves especially crash testing, production runs are having a 10% failure rate.

That is not acceptable for a profitable production run rate. They are working on reducing that to a low single digit.

Charged EVs | Tesla Q2 earnings report: record billion-dollar income, delays for Semi and Cybertruck - Charged EVs

[balthazar]

Will Competition Destroy Tesla?

Apparently... not from this quarter : 

Edited July 31, 2021 by balthazar