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dealer that i got my car from has called me three times now this month to dangle out a special private offer of 1000 bucks to try get me to get into a new vehicle (8 months sooner). the sales downtown i assume is the motivation. but tell me this, why should i aspire to your vehicles, GM, when you package simple and common safety equipment like blind spot and cross path detection, that is standard on a lot of mainstream cars on other makes, but you choose to bundle into optional expensive trim packages, even on your Cadillac brand? You puff up your MSRP's to ridiculous levels that literally price out buyers before they can even muster courage to spend more than 90 seconds looking at pricing data to discover all the hidden and constantly changing incentives buried below the surface? Vehicles that would sell much better if the pricing and packaging models weren't so stupid? And GM, you spent the last ten years downsizing many of your vehicles and leaving a lot of folks with lesser powertrain options as well. Poor packaging and bad styling, who can't you own up to that rather than throw out the 'we'll close our plants' (used primarily to stake out ground vs. the union for future labor negotiations). And you do this why? So you can spend all this money on autonomous vehicles and electrics, techonology that should be funded on its own payback rather than raiding the pot from your normal product development budgets? When you could use that same money to develop real competition to challenge a lot of the current hot market sellers?? GM could have easily outTesla'd Tesla and made Tesla their bitch, but they didn't seize that opportunity when it was there. But i bet you they spent a shit load of money in development with nothing from a product standpoint to show for it. Where's the accountability to GM managment to pissing away all this money and having no product that showcases that, to make all that money back? Makes you wonder if some unwritten terms of the buyout wasn't to commit all sorts of resources to that 'unbillable' development work to be shared with the government or others.

[wanders back to his shop and hugs his '40, '59 & '64]

Lucky for them, Mitsubishi left the Normal manufacturing plant fully intact and the city sold it dirt cheap to Rivian. They have a fully setup robotic assembly line that RJ says will speed up their assembly of their EVs and with a full paintshop that is already operational along with many other departments, it is coming down to minimal tweaking of the robots in assembly of the Rivian truck and SUV. Should be easier than what Tesla has done since it uses the same skateboard platform for their auto's. I love that RJ in his interview with Bloomberg stated there was no reason to attempt to reinvent the manufacturing wheel when the existing competition has already shown how to quickly build auto's. So with that, buying an existing auto assembly line with paint shop and just adjusting it to build their auto's should speed up their time to market. Yes they are expecting to start production after the 1st of the year and tweak and then go full production for sales starting after the first of the year in 2020. I can easily see them delivering this sooner than later. I honestly do not expect any slippage in dates unlike Tesla.

Decades ago I sent away to get the factory paperwork for my '64 GP from a company that bought up (actually, I heard they were rescued from a dumpster and an agreement was reached) PMD's records. Just like anyone who's interested in their car's history/numbers, one of the things that tends to occupy the minds of car hobbyists is their car's past life. Specifically, what dealership did it come from? Well, this paperwork included what's called a 'build manifest', which shows the VIN, options codes, other bits, plus the dealership numerical code. Here's one (see "07 679") - this is the 'factory's copy' : This particular manifest is from the Car & Driver '64 GTO test car, the one where Pontiac slipped a 421 underhood in place of the 389 they were built with. Those extra 32 cubes were worth an official 22 more HP, but tuned the way it was it was FAR more. The C&D GTO did the quarter mile in 11.8 sec IIRC. Unfortunately, the manifest doesn't ID the dealer (name/address), so unless you find the individual car's build sheet (it's 'birth certificate', if you will), it is very tough to find out the actual original dealer. This is a build sheet from a '70 GTO, note that besides the VIN, the spelled-out options, it has both the dealer code and the dealer name/address. This is the golden ticket for a Pontiac hobbyist. However, there was no set rule about these singular paper copies as far as what to do with them when the car was assembled. Many/most times, they got stuffed into the car... but not always and not always in the same places. I've found them under the seat springs, way up under the dash. I never did find the one in my '64 GP tho. Now, this company that has all the PMD records, from 1961 up until (who cares; I think) 1980, THEY have all the dealer IDs but never got around to compiling a list. So I started to reach out into the Pontiac community to find out dealer codes and compile them. This, I started around 1990, and I get quite a decent start on a list. Along comes this internet thing, and I find a very busy GTO site (ultimateGTO.com) that also has a list going, so I shelve the project. Low & behold, I recently check back and the GTO site list hasn't been updated since 2009! That's it; 'just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in'. I don't know how many dealers we're talking about- my interest would be about '55-80... and the codes mathmatically allow for 27,000 numbers.... but the count is more like 4-5000, or so I was once told. RIght now my list is just over 1800, tho 450 of those have no codes associated with them.

Have you driven a Pilot or Ridgeline or Odyssey? yes they move the auto, but performance and excitement they are not. This is just a shaved CUV of those ugly blah auto's for people who want blah auto's. Gutless to me it is.

Except most Hondas and Acuras are built in Ohio or Indiana, while the Odyssey, Ridgeline and Pilot are made in Alabama. Buying an Accord or CR-V supports Ohio workers. Civics are made in the US and Canada. And if GM wanted people to buy the Cruze then it should have been a better car at a better price. They never offered a performance version, they offered a $28k diesel that was way over priced that no one was going to buy, that was just bad execution all around. As far as what products get cut you have look at market sizes. Mid-size car is still about 2 million units per year in the USA. Small car is less, large car is maybe 200k units a year and all 3 are shrinking. I can see GM competing only in mid-size sedan with Chevy/Buick, and giving Cadillac 2 sedans. The volume is in crossovers.

Sales of the japanese/Korean entry level market cars are ALSO down. Question is, who moved quicker to head off the inevitable?

@Robert Hall @ccap41 So the video is very easy to identify where they filmed. Started in Downtown Portland, they then drove up to and over the last bridge going over the Columbia River called "The Bridge of the Gods" into Washington state and the beach where they go surfing and camping is just south of Westport on the coast and Yes, those roads are always very sparse with traffic like that. Common to only see a few cars at a time. 1hr and 32min till the Rivian reveal of their SUV the R1S! Good reading stuff in their newsroom https://www.rivian.com/news

I had to look more into it as well but here's a video of it. It seems pretty real. https://vimeo.com/301410788 I also found the cup holders in the video.

Unlike true concepts that barely move around on their own, Rivian has shown the truck out in the woods actually being driven off road, going through rivers, etc. I think while some of their pictures have been from the initial concept they built, many are also of what should be a production near ready truck and I think we will see this at the autoshow once media have access to it. I would think they would have cup holders by then. I could be wrong through. Still exciting times for auto's.

Likewise, I wonder if they will really get this off the ground. The concept and what it delivers looks great. Makes you wonder why one of the big guys isn't working on something like this. Where is Toyota with an EV truck?

I point the finger of shame at Toyota for not being more competitive in the full size truck game. The Tundra is way dated, super dated powertains, etc. Let's not forget that the Tacoma basically helped put the Dakota and Ranger out of business. But Toyota should be embarrassed for not having a better Tundra that can sell 2500,000 units per year, they aren't going to top Ford or Chevy but they should be taking a bigger chunk. I miss cars with no grill. This 2 pull it off, the 2000 Monte Carlo and the late 90s, early 2000s Oldsmobiles were no grill. I like the all solid body color up front on these two, and that is a styling trend I wish would come back in some places. Almost every car now has the same trapezoid shaped mesh opening up front.

Got to love stock market, thousands of people will end up on the street jobless, but stocks went up. Question is for how long? People without jobs = bad economy = recession.

When a car can initialize puberty in someone just from looking at it...you know it is badass.

Shouldn't they be flags of Japan? Embrace who you are, no? - - - - -

* CUMMINS

The problem with GM's plan is it is a continual cut. They cut Oldsmobile, then all the other brands during the bankruptcy. Granted a lot of those they didn't need, but in doing that it should have led them to be able to put more money into each brand to make them stronger and they didn't. They have given up on minivans because they couldn't compete there, now they are cutting maybe half their sedans because they can't make profit there. They cut European operations because they couldn't make money there. They are basically a China-North American player now that is by 2020 will probably be 80% trucks and SUVS. So what happens when competitors go after their truck business, because they will. We see Hyundai and Kia going into the full size SUV market, Tesla will go into pickups, etc. GM has been in retreat mode for 20 years.

Hold up... hold up.. U think this looks better than this Dude.. U done bumped your goofy head

EVERYBODY is "planning on being profitable", yet the gutters & storm drains of history are PACKED with failures.

if their life depends on it,, I believe they will make it mainstream. That's it.. That's it.

I am surprised we haven't seen a solid EV push from Toyota yet. Even Nissan is further along in the market.

I agree on #3. I don;t completely agree on #1. I stand by the possibility that because Chevy is one of the few builders with not one.. but 4 Small cars in its line-up.. it makes zero sense to keep all of them.. as I have stated for years concerning the Sonic/Spark and Cruze/Volt.. constantly stating that the Volt and Cruze should have always been one vehicle.. and the Sonic.. being the bones of the Trax, should have always been allowed to be the only sub-compact instead of having to compete on lot with the cheaper Spark

1. Ford will have no entry level sedan either. Neither does FCA. They've given up, leaving the entry level market to the Japanese and Korean car makers, who know how to build them profitably. 2. Sales #s of those models are down and the full size segment continues to decline. 3. For the LaX, same as the Impala...dying models in a dying segment. For the Volt, maybe they have an EV CUV in the works to replace it. Like Ford and FCA, they are hoping sales of trucks, CUVs, and SUVs can sustain them until they get their EV and AV plans fully realized...

I also maintain that I think that research went into where to yank product. Looking at the situation objectively.. if U look at Buick.. the LaX is the one to go.. especially since the XTS is dead.. At Chevy.. the Impala would have again stayed coupled with the CT6 on Omega.. but I have to believe that Chevy is not completely pulling a "1996" and abandoning full-size for SUVs again.. making the case for the sudden emergence of the FWD based Blazer make sense. The CRUZE.. again.. if the Sonic is gonna stay, and its essentially going to move up in size slightly.. kill the Spark and be... WAITTAMINUTE.. Could they be keeping the SPARK name alive and putting it on an complete line of EV cars? Like Chevy "Spark" Chevy Bolt etc.. but all of them EV? So why not keep the Volt.. a perfect EV play on words too? Cadillac ? Maybe they needed to make room.. for this.

As an enthusiast.. this is horrible news from General Motors.. that leaves a great deal of us scratching our heads wondering how a company like this can: 1) Not have an entry level sedan such as the Cruze when there exists a Civic, Corolla, Maz3, Elantra? 2) Not have a Large sized Impala or Large Lux CT6, both which have been acclaimed vehicles since they arrived? 3) Kill the LaXat Buick and Volt at Chevy? But then I see the Rivian.. and Tesla.. and Bolt. and realize that GM made this announcement almost 2 years ago and no one paid attention.. Definitely not me. Remember the announcement that GM wold have 20 new EV vehicles by 2023 Got me thinking.. Could this be it? Is this the date of change.. sorta like a GOING ON-LINE DATE? Thinking.. Why would U need a Cruze sized vehicle if the goal of the Cruze was to cut emissions? An EV would instantly do that. I will be the first to wonder why the Volt would be killed.. as it would be the perfect name to simply go all electric is we are at the point that we can do so with better range than even the 250 miles range of the 60 kWh Bolt. Surely GM can beat the Rivian's range estimates of 300 miles for the 135-kwh, 400 miles for the 180-kwh, and 230 miles for the 105-kwh. Obviously to me.. the lost of the Impala and CT6 are the most hurtful.. as I was planning to get a CT6-V at the end of the year. I realize it will be available.. but how rare will it be. Future classic no doubt. Still knocks me in the head that the Omega platform was not utilized in such a way that it accommodated not only the CT6, but also the Impala (merged with SS). Alas.. ACCEPTANCE is what it is.. if GM is doing what I said above, because lets face it.. if they don;t move ahead with electrification.. they are DONE in 15 years. I mean it. IF THIS IS THE PLAN.. then applaud Mary Barra, an engineer by training. A lotta people are thinking about the Human factor concerning the lost of thousands of jobs.. Baltimore is slated to lose 300 jobs. That hits close to home. EV and Hydrogen powered vehicles will sit along with the Gas/diesel ones for another decade I'm sure.

Yes these changes are hard, very hard. Mary Barra is the type of CEO GM needed instead of All the Failed CEOs from 1980-2010. GM may need to be smaller than Ford in order to NOT ask for a bailout of any kind for the next decade. A recession will come and she is battening down the hatches. If a nasty recession hits, GM will survive. Ford may not survive because of that debt overhang from the last recession (that Ford still has not resolved). FCA may well be Dead auto company Walking as we speak. Toyota and Honda and Hyundai/KIA will not only be fine but will probably thrive since NONE of their domestic markets were ever invaded or conquered. The Germans have to deal with DieselGate and a stagnant European car market, despite what smk4565 said about Daimler building a new factory for the S-Class. And on top of all that, China may well dominate all others by 2030 barring some miracle. The only real complaint that I have is that a lot of GM pricing could stand to be reduced by $2500-5000 per vehicle. New cars are ridiculously unaffordable across the board. Even KIAs rarely bring real cost savings versus the competition. The industry is far too reliant on leasing to keep dealers afloat. That is an unsustainable business model for which will end in tears sooner rather than later. I know that without expensive leases and their painfully restrictive terms, the industry could not get away with these insane MSRPs. Why all these cuts? Simple: a lot of Baby Boomers (and younger buyers) ditched GM for Germany and Japan since at least the late '70s, and few have turned back.

I watched this today explaining why GM is doing what they are doing:

Loving this Sexy Green AWD with Torque Vectoring SUV. The live reveal was cool. RJ is so much more relaxed and clearly knows his stuff more than Musk. Rivian Automotive should rival and I expect beat Tesla as they are going full size trucks / SUVs compared to cars.

Yup, super smart guy, clearly all about roomy performance SUV / Trucks based on my reading today. This guy so rocks more than Musk. I am really excited. See they have the preorder page up, Starting price is $65,000 after Federal rebate. So in essence, $72,500 is starting price and the preorder page says the top performance and largest battery pack models will be built first. Then the base model available starting 12 months later or in 2021 available for sale. If RJ can hit his projections and right now I see no reason not too, this will hurt the Detroit OEM and Tesla. GM I believe can handle this but Ford and FCA I am not sure they can handle a strong driven, focused, educated man like RJ that has done his homework on building a better Truck and SUV. I will say that this will put both Asian and German auto companies on alert to move their ass in building EV auto's. $1,000 down is all for a preorder of the SUV or Truck. https://preorders.rivian.com/2322956400/checkouts/400a67d6ffcc711a452e2d3fbd79251f

Oh dang, the plant is only about 2hrs from me. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20180518/ISSUE01/180519884/rivian-ceo-scaringe-plans-to-build-electric-cars-in-normal He's also super young.. 35 years old.

@ccap41 Rihanna is 5'8" So based on this picture at the Nov 26th reveal of the truck that she attended, he is right around 6' tall http://www.zimbio.com/photos/RJ+Scaringe/Rivian+Unveils+First+Ever+Electric+Adventure/VyhC3NG6EI7

I know Tesla has gotten a lot of flack for not having physical buttons in the center console area so what're your thoughts on a very similar idea here? Personally, I would prefer a few knobs. I would like temp and radio knobs for sure and probably a couple for each of those as well. Thinking about it more, maybe just a volume knob and a temperature knob for each passenger. Maybe just 3 knobs would get the job done. Location of the air and radio station could be on the screen.

Come visit and if you come north enough to the seattle area let me know and we can connect up.

This is still a concept.. I think saying this isn't a crap product should hold off until there is at least a rolling product with doors and a cup holder.

Smart move. The TT should be a coupe. They already make sedans.

It was time to do something...but between slashing these products, maybe there's a glimmer of hope they can remake and re-do the remaining set of plebian, out classed and "why isn't it even as nice as the last gen?" current mix of crossovers, embarrassing full size trucks, etc. they have. The shocking "what the heck is THAT thing?" of the current full size trucks intro should have been a visible "UH OH" to days and years to come to everyone. Interesting news day. Just one of those...time to rip the bandaid off and stop 45% "kinda look we did it" with a too large mix of products. Things got better after 2009-2010 cuts, then went downhill fast again recently, so hopefully these cuts help...something...? They always struggle to stay on point, somehow. Those times as someone above mentioned..."can we borrow Bob Lutz for 3 years as a consultant for everything out now?" Something. Anything. When you can't come out with an all new full size truck generation that makes anyone take a 2nd look, and most laugh, it's a red alert zone.

Given how many flash-in-the-pan electric car companies there have been in recent years, is there any sense that this is as real as say Tesla and not just smoke-and-mirrors fakery like Faraday Future was? This is the first I've heard of Rivan.

Haven't we been here before? Parody with some truth to it:

Guys, this is just the start- You haven’t seen anything yet. And not for GM for sure. One thing I can say- they see the doom coming for the upcoming recession.... This will only keep running through the industry..other automakers will follow. And welcome the Chinese...their opening has been found.......

Come again?? DuraMax V8 : 910 TRQ PowerStroke V8 : 935 TRQ Cummins (ya; it's a 6) : 925 TRQ

I won't be surprised if CT6 moves to Lansing with CT4 and CT5, but I also won't be surprised if the car is just dropped because it has sold so poorly. People with the income to buy new cars just want SUV's, crossovers, and 4 door pickups.

Mercedes makes money everywhere, USA is only their 3rd biggest market and they have been #1 luxury car company for a while here. They just built a new factory in South Carolina for the Sprinter with 1,300 new jobs. They are spending $1.3 billion to expand the Alabama plant to include battery production and that will add more jobs. They are investing in the USA, as the Detroit 3 bail out. Mercedes is also building a new factory in Germany to build the next S-class, which will be the most technologically advanced and greenest auto manufacturing plant in the world. They are building new factories and creating jobs. And chances are they will be next to last to the party in that zero emissions and autonomous car thing. They'll beat FCA there, and that might be it.

The CT6 and the Volt (maybe) are the only two that deserve saving. The rest can rest in peace, given the massive shift to SUVs and crossovers. As for the Volt and Bolt, when is GM going to put out its replacement platform for those vehicles? Moreover, where is the EV version of an Equinox/Terrain/Envision?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/11/26/gm-general-motors-plant-closures-job-cuts/2113275002/ Yup interesting read, but also understandable as the plants mentioned in the story support auto's that are dwindling in sales fast. QUOTE: The Detroit-based automaker said it would end production by the end of 2019 at its Lordstown Assembly plant in northeast Ohio; its Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly plant in southeast Michigan; its Oshawa Assembly plant in Ontario; its Baltimore Operations parts plant; and its Warren Transmission Operations plant in southeast Michigan. Now I will say that some of the pictures in the USA Today story are cool and my favorites are as follows: Buick Y-job concepts from 1938 1951 Buick XP-300 concept 1951 Buick Le Sabre concept 1961 Mako Shark Corvette 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado and first FWD auto.

I have 4 V8 vehicles : 239, 389, 403, 470. Also have 4 spare engines : 291, 330, 455, 455. That's 3,032 cubic inches in my arsenal. ? - - - - -

2-dr wagon... with FINS ?

I love it but was, a few months back, ready to throw her out and slip a 454 or 496 crate in there. The 396 was getting hot.. and after I broke her down I found that several pushrods were bent and the valve springs associated with them were broke.. anyway.. crate motor was about $7-10K.. where as fixing was about $200.. so I went with the fix.. and then another $400 on the carb. So overall $600 bucks and about 4 days total due to me having to work and do it when I got home.. she purs now.. My next thing might be this C10 ... was considering a H3T if I could find one tho. C10s are moving up high in price these days

Thanks.. 396