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Of course, the potential top speed of a car has no meaning in the real world, just an internet arguing point of little value.

The grill is just HUGE. This is really the last time I thought the 7Series was a looker

Those horrible , giant, always-black, rubber steering wheels BMW stuck in everything, even when nothing else in the interior was black, just SCREAMED 'cheap'. It's like they got a container ship of them for a nickel a piece and they lasted 30 years.

Oh, it's not the car...my brother has been an asshole/felon/black sheep of the family for decades...I had a BMW M3 back in the 00s and I'm not an asshole.

I always liked the look of those.... my asshole brother who has been a lifelong Chevy/Pontiac/Ford/Mercury guy has a black '00 740i...neat car.

This just singularly the worst luxury car styling I have seen in half a century. And this is among the best. In my history here I have trash talked GM a lot of times, not a fanboi of any brand....but this is just plain hot. In it's own way, 58 Eldorado Biarritz hot. The Rolling Stones sang a song with rather obscene lyrics about a dead man doing something....the Caddy pics above would make a dead man feel something. And now I am starting to feel like Olds Hurst because I am posting music videos while talking about cars. Someone please slip something into my coffee to tranquilize me before I post any more.... (Horse ducks from wrench thrown at him from Montreal.,...)

You are correct, the EV right now to be profitable have to be in $70-100k price range. However, initially, cars in general only rich people could afford. Eventually the technology will be cheap enough to realistically to make profit selling electric vehicles in the affordable price range for the common public. If you look at technology in general it has been like that with every new and now common and cheap innovation: microwave, refrigerator, TVs etc.

Yes. With Corolla bones. But it was still a cool little hatch. Toyota or not. Pontiac sibling or not. The tuner crowd took to them The Vibe and Matrix were offered with AWD. Now...remember, the Fast and The Furious movies are coming out at this time. Deep pride for Japanese performance on small hatches. 4 cylinders are being tuned like crazy...since the 1990s and in the early 2000s it was at a red hot peak. Pontiac has got a very tune-able ecotec at this time. Supercharged and turbo versions were offered on that engine. Tuners got 1000 horsepower with them. AWD was offered in the Vibe... The Vibe, like you said...IS A TOYOTA... The Fast and Furious movie star...IS A TOYOTA... Pontiac missed out on that BIG TIME!!! It gave us a very ricey yet very Fast and the Furiousy concept... JapaneseSportCars.com it says on that pic THAT is how Pontiac missed out...

We cant erase our past mistakes. Only learn from them and to NEVER repeat them. That goes for ALL humanity in all of its colours and cultures.

If only GM would build a New G8/SS sooner than later (and NOT just a Cadillac CT6!). GM cannot just live on SUVs and crossovers alone!

If I wanted another sport sedan, Stinger would be at the top of my list with not too many other options. I looked at Genesis at the auto show. It looks much better than Stinger outside and inside, but the rear leg room is almost non existent when I adjusted front seat for myself. I was really surprised. Personally, I would go with RWD Stinger, not AWD. However, I have a very long commute and probably will go with two car setup next time: cheap and economical commuter and a sports car that i will keep very long time, most likely the Mustang.

If they had unique products like they had w/ the G8 and Solstice... but not a rebadge filler brand.

The results are not surprising. With near on demand torque and AWD, the Stinger will always get off the line faster than the Stang (or Camaro for that matter) but that 100HP difference sure reared its ugly head on the track so the Stang winning was no surprise there at all. Now, imagine even 50 more HP (much less 100 more) on the Stinger. Make fun of the fact that its a Kia (so what?), a derivative of other cars (again, so what? Most cars these days are derivative of something else), or any a number of things people like to slam Kia for. This is a true dark horse car that will impress most folks who are lucky enough to get behind the wheel of it.

And a sadder one at that....glad I grew up when I did. Thank you for the clarification. BMW has built a lot of fantastic cars through the decades...but given the styling excesses of the current gen, I pretty much consider current Gen BMW products to be power-plant donors for a more interesting vehicle. Hennessey is crooked as hell... GM would be an entirely different company right now if the whole BK and market crash thin g haddn't happened. A modern G8 to go head to head with BMW and Acura...hell yes, please.

"Alpina works closely with BMW and their processes are integrated into BMW's production lines, thus Alpina is recognized by the German Ministry of Transportas an automobile manufacturer, in contrast to other performance specialists which are aftermarket tuners. For instance, the Alpina B7 is produced at the same assembly line in Dingolfing, Germany (BMW Plant Dingolfing), as BMW's own 7 Series. The B7's twin-turbo 4.4-litre V8 is assembled by hand at Alpina's facility in Buchloe, Germany, before being shipped to BMW for installation,"

The BK messed up a great deal of the plan. GM is being too cautious right now IMO. In 2005 there was the Escalade, CTS, STS, SRX, XLR, and DTS. We were waiting for the BTS(there was a BLS in Europe based off Saab 9-3), BRX, XLS/DT7 and Ultra V8 to replace Northstar. There was also talk of an "XLR-Mini" based on the Kappas (Sky and Solstice)

LOL.. my first Caddy was a Black '05 Cadillac STS 4.6L V8 320HP. Loved that car. My interior was exactly like this.

Good thing....given how hideous the front end of that thing is, no one should look at it. Hopefully the tail lights are not quite as hideous.

Which is why I love living in a dynamic world. Pulled up to a pump last night that still sold E85 as well as gasoline,..was not sure ethanol was still a thing... Yeah, another neighbor bought a King Ranch F series...I think NASA spent less putting Armstrong on the moon. Nor can they afford to ignore the future. GM and Ford once owned the North American Auto Market and they ignored a ton of trends...How many Hyundai, Benz, Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Lexus and the like do you see in nearly every parking lot?

Rumor is he likes his women airbrushed as well. And here in some ways I will agree with you. Niether is the Miata....it isn't a bad car for its segment. Quit comparing cars from the 50-90K segment to cars that cost 150K. It's intellectually disingenuous. And you are biased towards Cadillac....I love Audi....and will tell you....it's every bit as nice. In fact I might prefer the Cadillac version myself, honestly.

Gotta love how Smky always posts REAL LIFE AUTOSHOW pics of Cadillac but gets the airbrushed ones for his GErman loves.

That's certainly more tolerable. I'm already 'out' on a new SIlverado- too pricey.

"Speculation is all I got". Thank you.

Never going to romanticize an era where anyone who wasn't a straight white male was dirt.

I would have liked to have seen Pontiac stay as a specialty division. And they really effed up at getting rid of Hummer.

Anyway, not a Pontiacyota thread. Back to the original subject, the 2019 CTS-V. Quite an impressive machine. How will they top it with its replacement, presumably to be called the CT5-V?

Ecotec was a GM engine, though. Wouldn’t have been used in a Toyota. And the Toyota in F&F was a straight 6 turbo RWD Supra, long way from a Corolla shitbox.

As far as I'm aware, THIS mistake has never been, exactly, repeated.

....hell...regarding the SS...they never marketed the last one. Unless you were a nerd from automotive forums you never knew the damn thing existed. I am not saying GM is faultless...see above remarks....

There was good and bad in it....I do wish Pontiac was still around.

Yes and no, It's tough to imagine them producing the same level of "meh" that they were and being successful. I think the BK, in the long run, very much helped them realize some things and that's why we have some great products today. They were complacent and the BK woke them up and got them out of it.

I would rock one....thinking of CPO stinger for my next car.

I always liked the rear end styling of that car, I think the rear still looks good today. I thought the headlights were too rounded off and the front was a little off. I liked the interior of that car at the time. I test drove one that was 3 years old maybe and remember it being too floaty and I had an Aurora at the time , that was probably 6 years ago. I drove an STS, gen 2 CTS, XF, MKZ, Genesis 4.6 and then an E350 and the E350 was way better so I bought an E550 without driving it figuring it has to be better than a 350.

There is some level of GM parity here, because that BMW interior just Screams Pontiac G6. They did handle well. I almost bought a really clean one about a decade ago. And here I have to agree with you. However, since that time BMW has gone downhill IMHO and Cadillac has gone uphill.

The E39s were really nice...a buddy in Denver had two used 540is in a row--both manuals. Drove one once, very nice car...handled great.

Transit vans are the best around the Nurburgring from what I've read. Magazine stats such 0-60, quarter mile, top speed were the arguing points of car crazed teenagers in study hall...I remember such debates w/ my buddies on the latest car details from Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc back in '85-86...

IF you hit 200 plus miles per hour on the way to the golf course, you are doing it either very wrong or very right. Really, at 2000 miles per hour should be modified with full safety eq1uipment and operating at a sanctioned event at an actual race track. Lots of better choices than the caddy and the BMW for that. GM does compete in Nascar, and used NASCAR race cars are fairly cheap for what you get. There are vintage racing organizations that race them. QA vintage Impala SS or Monte SS, and a GMC Denali as a tow vehicle and you are set. Nothing Mercedes builds is anywhere near as competitive for affordable racing. The Sprinter has a very low production option Germany only that has a Maybach V12, so obviously all Chevy vans are junk. Or so the argument would go.

Would you consider a CPO for $35K? Seems many of the expensive trucks that Ford, Ram and GM are making and selling are ending up on lots for half the price once the lease is over. So their $70K crewcab pickups are about $35K with about 36K miles on them. So these electric pickups if they follow the same trend and no reason not too will end up being about half price.

• You stated "factory produced". Alpina modifies BMWs in their OWN garage, not in a BMW assembly plant. Where you physically buy it is irrelevant; it's not 'factory'. • You stated the 7-series outsells the CT6 in the US. It didn't for the last calendar year, and it wasn't really close.

I still believe that if Tesla or any other automaker builds a full size pickup that is normal looking like the F150 Ford EV Truck or the Atlis, people will buy. If VW builds their Atlas pickup as an EV, I believe it will sell too. I believe Ford will sell a bunch of these F150 EVs.

Maybe, but the '05 M5 wasn't "factory produced" that way. And Alpina is an aftermarket tuner. If Alpina is 'in', so is the '12 Hennessey CTS-V, which went 221 MPH. As usual- you stated that criteria was determined by sales, and specifically mentioned the CT6 and the 7-series. A statement that I answered.

mmmmmm. No. Politics seem to put a dent to that argument. Government regs also seem to put a dent into that argument. CAFE did a lot to downsize cars in the 1970s. Japanese cars got a foothold in this market because of CAFE. FWD became the norm. 4 cylinder engines became the norm. The thing is...stricter CAFE TODAY is pushing EVs into our future...regardless of market share... The future is coming BECAUSE plans were changed...for ICE CAFE regs...regardless of what EV market share is in 2019... Unless CAFE regs change, plans for EVs will not change... Trump wanted to eradicate what Obama did with those strict CAFE regs....but GM of all corporations thought that was a bad idea, because GM wants to push forward with the EVs and though that if those CAFE regs were to disappear, than that would delay the progress made for EVs...GM wants to have less strict CAFE regs, but still strict enough for EVs to push through... Like I said...most of all the automotive world WANTS the EV future to happen. I havent strayed from that thought. because THAT is the reality... Its a GLOBAL direction and the automotive world is behind it all the way.

Plans ALWAYS change.

yes! Plans of this, Im afraid, will NOT change. High speed trains for California being canceled? HA! Plans for trains in California were NEVER a thing to begin with. Plans for high speed trains did not change course. Plans for trains being canceled is par for the course actually. Had they went forward with high speed trains, THAT would have been a change in plans. Cars were always their main thing... https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/inside-l-s-dark-deserted-network-railways/

Of course- there's compromises no matter where you come down on the timeline. Internet stuff is cool, some of it anyway. More music; yep. Better entertainment; yep. But there's a lot of little things that fall the other way. Not worrying about locking your door or your car. Much stronger sense of community/neighborly-ness. A fridge that lasts longer than 12 years. Quality construction. Only 3 potato chip flavors to choose from. People minding their own business where prudent. Cheap Tuckers.

And General Motors money...to make it into a reality...

Its no secret that I don't like U and wish that U and your kind would all move to Germany and never be allowed back into this country. The price point was done because the car was moving into a segment that it had invented, but had been absent from for all of 20 years. Also Any moron can see that the CT6 when equipped like a 7 Series is almost the exact same price. A Platinum CT6 3.0L is almost spot on the 740i here and the CT6 Platinum V8 will most likely be the same price as a 750i.. Oh and this is the Luxury interior. The Premium and Platinum are equipped with better materials.

I see the red interior of the CTS just as nice as the Audi.. in fact I prefer it