oldshurst442

I have. AND I AGREE WITH YOU! At the same time, it aint that bad... If you have ever given a pass to a Corvette C6 (price on the Vette is more in tune with Acura prices than Chevy and Zeta Camaro (Its platform mate 4 door sedan in China was a luxurious Buick Park Ave...surpassing in image any Aura) interior a pass, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY EXPECT you give these Acuras a pass.... Acura HAS stumbled...but not to the point where GM and the 1st gen CTS was...Acura hasnt blown away the competition like it had done in the 1990s. They just let everybody else catch up to their standards... Ill repeat. Its not so much about Acura going cheap as much as it is that GM and FoMoCo FINALLY have CAUGHT UP and SURPASSED Acura's OWN STANDARDS!!! (From the 1990s) Acura hasnt improved upon what they and Lexus has done. That distinction would go to Audi... We must not let ANY BIASES escape rational thoughts...fair is fair and we must carry the same standards for everybody when judging and discussing. If its good for the goose it MUST be good for the gander... If its inexcusable for Acura...the last 5-7 years....what....we just forget how abysmal GM and FoMoCo were for the last 30 years? To boot, Acura's interiors the last 5-7 years really are not that bad... Its ironic as I said the SAME BLOODY THING DEFENDING GM (Cadillac) over at MT when BMW fanboys were dissing Cadillac. Fanboyism is such a horrible thing....and yeah Im implying that it exists here too...

2002 TL interior 1st gen CTS interior. Cheap.... Like I said, Acura's interiors from 1990 to 2008 were EONS ahead of the Detroit 3. Like I said, GM and FoMoCo have finally caught up and possibly surpassed Acura, but its not as if Acura stooped as low as that 1st Gen CTS...I dont think Acura EVER offered a cheap interior like that in its cars and that includes the Integra and all other badge engineered Civics...

You are absolutely right Drew....but these models and time period are about the time where Acura has been stumbling... Mid 2000s, and the interiors of these predecessor models are just eons ahead of GM and FoMoCo of the same time period...like I said, GM and FoMoCo just EQUALIZED and perhaps surpasses Acura's interior. Not that Acura failed as much as GM and FoMoCo caught up and surpassed... Acura also lost its direction. They lost their sporty intentions...just like Honda...Killing the Integra while just badge engineering the Civic into a leather clad Civic while at the same time engineering the Civic as a cheap appliance hurt Honda and Acura. And then... Losing out somewhat on this model. It became an old fogey's ride. It was an excellent ride. Luxurious and....old fogeyish... But redeeming themselves with this one: But losing big time with the super beak TL. I happen to love the super beak. But many dont. I feel like many see Acura's failure in quality is not because of quality...but for aesthetics... Like I said, Acura's super beak years also coincide with clunky interiors...both do not bode well for perception. 2008 Acura TL interior. Like the Blue TL above. Quite elegant that looks good to the eye 8 years later... 2009 super beak TL interior. Kinda the same style...but bulky and clunky....like the super beak... The 2008 Cadillac CTS interior was elegantly done. Cheap though. It rattled. It was loose. No Acura interior to date rattles...ever.

Well. Lets take a looksie at GM. Chevy has the Vette. Should Cadillac NOT get a supercar of some sorts just because Chevy has one. Granted, timing has to be 100% perfect for the absolutely right supercar for Cadillac to hit the showrooms once other more vital products are made for Cadillac, but Cadillac will need one eventually. Lets take a look at Volkswagen Automotive Group. Porsche. Their whole line-up is a supercar of some sort. Sure 4 door cars and SUVs, but those are their for the funding of said supercars. Audi...the R8...based on Lamborghini parts but its pure Audi in form and function and identity. Lamborghini. Their whole line-up is a supercar of some sort. All three brands actually compete with one another in races and in sales... Then there is Bugatti... So...I dont know if its fair to say that a brand is top tier luxury because of these supercars, but it helps with public perception at multiple levels. Price tag. High price tag equals luxury. Technology. High technology equals luxury. Add both together and you get people lusting after your product line-up from top to bottom. Of course there are other factors. Marketing is a HUGE one. So yeah. I think its fair. PS: A halo car need not be a supercar. The Lincoln Continental could be that special halo car that transforms Lincoln the way the 1st generation NSX did for Acura. Is the Continental and the new NSX as special as the original NSX was? HMMMM...that is the question...

I misled you with my definition of premium lux. I meant to say mid level lux. I agree with you in saying that Acura is not "premium". Ill confuse the situation a tad further... The low end BMW and Audi stuff aint exactly premium either. More like mainstream. Is it fair to judge Acura that harshly? While I agree that Acura has lost its way, but interior quality has not really suffered as much as you and Drew say it has. I think we think Acura's interior quality has suffered because: 1. Cadillac, Buick and Chevy's interior along with Ford's and Lincoln's interior has improved all that much to where Acura''s is... 2. Acura's interiors where elegant in the 1990s. From 2008 or so, they have become clunky. They are solidly built, but they are clunky. Clunky does not exude luxury. I agree with the TLX. I HATE THAT INTERIOR. I prefer my 2012 TL's interior better. And like I said, Acura aint on the same level as Audi. Audi is the best in the business, but...as much as I HATE the TLX's interior, it still is solid, very solid for the TLX's price point. Remember, the TLX base's price point is Honda Accord V6 territory. That would be Impala LTZ territory. The Impala is awesome, but Impala aint premium either. There are flaws to its interior too, if compared to an Audi A6.... Which brings us to Lincoln. The MKZ fits into this discussion. Acura TLX SH-AWD with PAWS...or Lincoln MKZ... One car is kinda of an Accord V6 with SH-AWD and PAWS while the other is kinda of a Ford Fusion Titanium/Mondeo Vignale with a V6 ecoboost and AWD... Each have strengths and weaknesses compared to each other... For a person to straight up and laugh at Acura when imposing HIS OWN BIASED opinion on Lincoln while praising Lincoln and denouncing Acura is not very genuine... And while Acura has a long way to go to get back to respectability, they have an EASIER time to get their than Lincoln. As it was said before....luxury is a whored up word nowadays, PUBLIC PERCEPTION is the key...and Acura has not soiled its brand half as bad as Lincoln has.... Put it another way. The Acura NSX will pave the way for other Acura models to follow. And if Acura finds its mojo as Honda has, the road to recovery will be a FASTER ONE than Lincoln's. The Continental will pave the way for other Lincoln models to follow. And if Lincoln finds its mojo as Ford has, the road to recovery will be a LONGER AND SLOWER one than Acura's... In MY OWN REALITY, I see Lincoln AT AN EQUAL FOOTING AS ACURA. Not superior or inferior. As far as Buick goes...as of 2016, Buick may be a tad inferior as Buick has no real halo car to identify itself to. In 2016/2017, Lincoln has the Continental while Acura has the NSX. In 2015 though, Buick is on an EQUAL FOOTING as LINCOLN OR ACURA. But...many more models to come for Buick and I have a feeling the Avenir trim level will be Buick's halo identity. Not really a car but a trim level. Different approach but just as equally effective. Lincoln and Acura will have to hit homeruns with every other car they make after the Continental and NSX to re-polish their image, while Buick just has to continue on the same path they are on while just adding the Avenir trim package on their models. It seems like Buick has 1 leg up on its Lincoln and Acura rivals as they know what their identity is as of now and people have already warmed up to that image...Lincoln and Acura still have some convincing to do... Of course that is just my opinion.

So did I. I know the ship has sailed and Im tuning in late...sorry about that. But I felt I needed to explain myself too... Anyhoo.. @A Horse With No Name and @Drew Dowdell About the NSX....sure its low volume and sure Acura has lost a lot in terms of luxury and perception... But...Im also sure the NSX is built to the highest of standards that Acura (Honda) is capable of.... And...as much as Acura has fallen from the horse, they havent fallen from grace. Unlike Lincoln. And yeah, the NSX is a low volume car, Acura could build a car like that and it well sell every last one of them, but LIncoln, cant do that as of now... So...with that being said...please, dont say that Acura aint premier lux....and yeah, above Lincoln..even with the Continental in the show room...

Of course you dont agree and of course you wont bother with any rebuttal... How could you? 1. You dont agree with one phoquing word I said is because you work for FoMoCo and ANYTHING said about FoMoCo that is less than complimentary you become defensive. 2. YOU know there is no debate with what I said because what I said is REALITY....YOU aint naive.. PS: I said you are NOT naive....and you dont agree with what I said....does that mean you think you are naive? THE NSX 1st generation represents what Lincoln and FoMoCo lost to the Japanese car maker.... THE NSX 2nd generation represents (along with that new Continental) what Lincoln, FoMoCo, Acura and Honda Motor Division had lost due to blurry eye sight...and are trying to get back on track... Agree to that or not....I dont care what you believe, but 'twas you that went wacky on Suave and is laughing at Acura and Buick....remember....YOU asked what Acura or Buick has in their portfolio that is high in regard to the Continental.... I showed you the Acura NSX... You want a tissue my darling to wipe those tears from your face?

You really are nuts! (Not in a good way) Why? 1. Suave LOVES the Continental....you pissed on him for no phoquing reason by crying over what you thought was a negative post! If you cease to be so obsessively defensive you would have realized that he was actually praising and LOVING it! 2. Relax with the Continental bro...It aint even on sale yet at the Lincoln Store! But since you asked: The NSX, old and new, had and has a HIGHER price tag than anything Lincoln EVER offered for a long time. The last time Lincoln had a car priced that high, John F. Kennedy was still alive... The NSX also represents technology that Lincoln, hell, FoMoCo, not even remotely offering its clientele. The Ford GT might have a higher price tag, it doesnt nearly have half as much tech in it in... About Buick... Buick's portfolio will increase in the next 5 years 2 fold...if the new Lacrosse is any indication where the brand is going along with the Avenir trim packages on the higher end stuff....Lincoln's Continental will have its hands full fighting off Buick... Remember, Buick's portfolio just 6-7 years ago was thinner and weaker than Lincoln's... All Lincoln has is that Continental...and a couple of SUVs...remember, other than that Continental, Lincoln really has not that much... And let us be honest, the hood area of the Continental has Ford Fusion/Mondeo styling...above the jewel LED headlights is an aero area that the Fusion also adorns....and those jewel LEDs are heavily borrowed from Acura... Buick also has a couple of strong SUVs. And a new Regal coming up shortly. Wings...1 car does not make a brand.... Ask Acura and Buick...you know, the brands you laugh at.... Wings...Lincoln's playmates are Buick and Acura...you could stop pretending....you aint naive...

I tried hard to circumvent the rules on this one. I found it tough, but I found a way to weasel in a few questionable entries...(twas with Mopar and the muscle cars that I was stomped with...stupid Mitsubishi denied me of a classic Challenger and Shelby with a classic Charger) We start with the first one: 2009 Mercedes Benz E63 AMG. I LOVE THIS CAR. I HAD TO HAVE IT. Problem is, 2 generations have passed....but...we are still in 2016 and the new gen just got on the market while the previous gen technically is still available making the 2009 questionably legit...tough noogies Frisky... The second weasel car: Chevrolet SS' cousin, the Pontiac G8 GXP Firehawk is the choice...we even jump to a different brand with this one, a dead brand at that, but technically, the Chevy SS predecessor is the Pontiac G8...Australia says so... Suck it Frisky!!! I got inspiration from the MOPAR scenario where I was trying to choose predecessors from a different era when choosing this next one. Acura NSX. Larger displacement or original motor. I dont care. But it has to be the one with the pop-up headlights. I wanted Aston Martin, but its near impossible to figure out which car replaced what since they are all practically from the same platform and since I already done my con jobs, I figured Id give it rest, so another Mercedes Benz car was chosen. 2010 CLS 63 AMG I soooo wanted a MOPAR...But a VIPER is not my style. I love it....but still... So what else could I choose that is pure MOPAR muscle? I GOT IT!!!! That lovely V10 was originally a truck engine...why not choose the truck with THAT engine under the hood. But the VIPERIZED version will have to do. Yeah yeah...Trucks are not my style either. Look at the pic. Isnt that a purty picture? Now you know why I chose the MOPAR truck...

How about a lifted Wrangler whatever lettering series it is? Here, a 2 door. Is that sporty enough for ya? Because it is for me!

I just had a flashback of songs from that era...weird how that works...

1993. I was 20 years old and on top of my world. Going to college, doing great there. Getting good grades. Playing all kinds of sports, working out and looking and feeling great. I was a popular kid. Had many friends that wanted to party with me and my gang. I was very popular with the girls at this point in time. 1 regret (about this song): I never really liked this song back in the day, oh so I thought. I heard it today for the first time since probably it went off the air sometime in 1993 or 1994 when it ceased to be popular anymore...I remembered all the words to it. Yeah, Ive made out with more than a handful of girls and this song was playing in the backround... My regret: I wish I had taken the time to enjoy the song a bit more. Its a good song... I dont know why I did not like it. I wish I enjoyed it is what Im saying as the girls that I made out with while this song was playing are nothing but a blur to me right now. Which is fine by me, its just that I feel like I missed out on a good song back in the day is alls Im saying. The irony: Back in the day, the girls that I had fallen in love with were in my heart while this song was a blur in the backround, but today...the song is vivid in my heart while the girls are nothing but a forgotten dream.

The funny thing about that...I made a Ford purchase in 2013 buying a Fusion DESPITE me being pissed at that lying arrogance with those dumb commercials. And the bailout money had no influence on me either... I was FOR the bailouts as I was for FoMoCo surviving their route taken... I take it many Americans were pissed at the government interventions but it baffles me how these same Americans are pissed at GM and Chryco for the bailout money yet they dont cry foul when the government subsidizes foreign car makers to build their factories in the USA... Or when NASA lets Toyota use the Space Shuttle as a HUGE billboard commercial... Or worse...I dont see any American, including @Wings4Life bitch at these billionaire pro-sports team owners threaten to leave town unless the city in question builds them a new arena of some sorts.... OK back to Ford... Ill keep this short and sweet. I just AMAZED how Ford and GM went from interior zeros from the 1980s-2010s to interior heros from 2010-2016. A short time span where GM and Ford are now industry leaders, or close to it, in interior design, quality and execution. Much still to improve...but very impressive non-the-less...for both companies.

Ummmmm...NO!!! That is what is called sugar coating the desperation... That what you have described is what Disney movies are all about... The nice come back from behind victory.... The bad guy wears a black hat and the good guy wears a white hat and through all kinds of turmoil saves the damsel in distress and saves the day and lives to fight another day. The nice love story...where the hero lives happily ever after. However, the negatives are all buried in the sand... In makes for a nicer story....why bother we all that pesky truth...which was desperation for Ford... Ford had hindsight to mortgage the Blue Oval and the Mustang trademark? That they had to hire appraisers to see how much those identities were worth....THAT was the hindsight? For a rainy day? And just in case it down poured on Ford's parade, and Ford wouldn't be able to make a payment on that type of mortgage, Ford would cease to own its own Blue Oval logo? Dude...THAT was a big effin risk to take... And...George W. Bush was already softening the public for a bailout at the time...because those talks were happening waaaay before the shyte hit the fan... Everyone knew the woes of the Detroit 3....very early on... That is why the Premier Automotive Group began to be dismantled under Mullaly. Aston Martin was sold, to a consortium of investors, headed by David Richards in 2007.[4] In September 2006, the defunct Rover brand was secured from BMW by Ford to protect the Land Rover brand.[5] In March 2008, Ford sold Jaguar and Land Rover to Tata Motors of India. In 2010, Ford sold Volvo Cars, the last PAG brand, to the parent of Chinese carmaker Geely for $1.8 billion. My My...Wings...How we forget the desperation times... A mere 5-7 years before...PAG was formed to a tune of 17 billion or something like that... Burn through cash the D3 were doing...and Ford was desperate and that is why the Mustang trademark and Blue Oval logo ceased to be owned by Ford for a little while....NOT because of hindsight as you put it...but by desperation...

ΚΑΛΗΝΥΧΤΑ, Wings. Translation for you non Greeks: Good Night, Wings.

You are the loud and dramatic story telling Greek...mixed in with some good ole American fast talkiing... Im more of the wise old philosopher type, mixed in with some good old fashioned Canadian dont take no BS from nobody saying how it is attitude like Don Cherry... Ford's "wiser" steps were of DESPERATION.... The rest is just lies and innuendo only politicians are known for...Ancient Greek politcians or modern day American or Canadian or Greek.... Hey, maybe you should run for President....your lies seem to be less stingy than the other two Presidential hopefuls... Id vote for you.... But then again, Id vote for you only because you are Greek and not for your merits.

What the phoque are you talking about? FoMoCo mismanaged their cash flow, their business plans, their market, their production, their quality JUST as BADLY as the other 2 Michigan headquartered rivals... THAT is why their cash flow ended 1 year BEFORE the other 2 rivals... Wings....you like to re-write history....I guess its in your Greek blood to do so...but Homer you are not...nor Plato or Socrates.... You fool nobody. Continue on with your revisionist history...

OK...after a long deliberation on this matter its either a 455 SD from Pontiac or Rocket 455 V8 from Oldsmobile in 1973... I think the Olds/Hurst wins out after me looking at the pics I just posted. 1989 @ 16 years of age As much as I wanna choose something different, I just seem to gravitate back to my heart and soul... I had a real hard time ditching the 1973 Trans Am, but at least it was in favor for an Oldsmobile muscle car. That is where my heart is at anyways, but more for the A-Body and not for the colonnade body style, I mean I like the colonnade body style, its just that I LUST over the late 60s A-Body... OK..1989... Pontiac Turbo Trans Am...over a BMW M635 csi or BMW 850... 1994 @ 21 years old OR 1998 @ 25 years old... Oh boy....this is tough...1998 is the year I choose and its between 2 absolutely gorgeous cars...both cars that are outside my identity but you would have to be a fool not to enjoy in a dream garage. BMW Z8 or Ferrari F355 F1 You know what the Greeks and Italians say: una faccia, una razza. Translastion: 1 face, 1 race The gorgeous Italian wins! Quite possibly the last absolutely good looking Ferrari made. 2016/2017 pick Aston Martin DB11 And yes, in that grey colour. The grey grew on me...and besides....Im 43 years old...Im beginning to be an old geezer myself....(I said that the colour grey on cars is old fogey colour) last pick: 1970 Oldsmobile 442 Not as different than to what I usually choose...but hey...these are some of the cars that get me giddy!

Read the edited post above... And yes you are pissin' on GM... No higher road takin by Ford... Only survival instincts...that became lucky for them...NOT TO USE bailout money, but bailout money was there for them to use as they did not decline it!

THERE IS NO HIGHER ROAD! Like I said...YOUR reasons are just noise pollution meant to piss on GM... Point finale! PS... I also lived through it....2009 affected the whole bloody planet. Not just Detroit and the automobile bankruptcies... WE ALL DID! Shyte, you are of Greek decent, like me, Greece is still living it!

Fusion Platinum or Fusion Sport for me. For a Lincoln sedan...Id really spend the money on a much more refined Lincoln ride, the Continental. And Id have the real Continental fascia rather than the make-shift one on the MKZ... The Fusion fascia is pretty and high end looking enough for my tastes...there is no need to spend the extra cash on the MKZ. The interior material differences...irrelevant for me. Like I said, the Continental is where Id look for the high end interior... Kinda like the 2015 Chevy Impala versus the 2015 Buick Lacrosse...Id rather the Impala then over the Lacrosse.

So, this is an admission that FoMoCo did the same things ethically as GM or Chryco in this 2008/2009 bankruptcy thing... So what is your argument stance then with the whole family fortunes lost thing? And that wasnt what I was saying either: This bailout situation... FoMoCo and GM and Chryco... ALL 3 were going bankrupt... All 3 were in danger of becoming extinct. All 3 were desperate for cash flow. All 3 were in a bad place and all 3 needed help. All 3 took the SAME ROUTE! All 3 ALWAYS took the SAME ROUTE. All 3 ALWAYS HAD THE BANKS LEND THEM TONS OF CASH. ITS JUST THAT in 2007/2008, Ford got billions when they re-mortgage their name... GM and Chryco waited it out as they had some cash left over from other bank loans from years before. FoMoCo was cash strapped 1 whole year before the other two but when GM and Chryco became cash strapped 1 short year later, the banks themselves were going down... So...in comes G.W. Bush with a proposal to which Obama finalized to save the American car industry from failing. And yeah, FoMoCo did not say no to the bailout money, they just DID NOT NEED TO USE IT!!! They could have though. They had access to it.... And if they have used it, they too would have caused the same amount of family fortunes lost as GM or Chryco. DO NOT EVER try to sugar coat that! THAT is what I was sayin'

In case you missed my clues... GM and Chryco's shrugging off the debts and monies owed that may have destroyed many family fortunes were NOT DONE ON PURPOSE TO TO FRAUD THOSE families. It may very well have been a necessary evil. To prevent any WORSE damages... FoMoCo's situation well, they were in the same sinking boat and FoMoCo' decision to re-mortgage their assets and possibly taking bailout money like GM and Chryco had NO THOUGHTS about little guy family fortunes lost. All Detroit 3 decision making in 2007-2009 was NOT about saving the little guy's family fortunes... Those decisions that the Detroit 3 took were about saving the Big 3. So no family fortunes would be lost, or at least be minimized. FoMoCo's 2nd/3rd mortgage was a lucky one for FoMoCo. The banks cut that faucet to prevent any little guy family fortune disasters any further as there was a bank meltdown so GM and Chryco were shyte outta luck to go down that road...remember...FoMoCo did that a whole year before... The bailout money was a solution to PREVENT WORSE little guy family fortunes lost then there was... That is why I redirected the conversation to Trump and H.R. Clinton as BOTH have used the law to SCREW ON PURPOSE the little guy.... THAT IS WHY I CALLED YOU UP ON IT! Because there are 2 types of arguments I cant stand: 1. semantic driven BS 2. cherry picking Because both are used to deflect to cover up biases and both are DISINGENUOUS! NO APOLOGIES ON MY END! I COME ARMED WITH THE TRUTH AND IF NOBODY LIKES THAT....TOUGH NOOGIES!

Ummmmm.... NO! When you want to reply to someone else's post Wings...THERE IS NO NEED TO BE DISINGENUOUS IN YOUR REPLIES!!! I HAVENT ITEMIZED NO FAULTS BY ANY AMERICAN CAR MANUFACTURER... YOU HAVE THOUGH.... ITS A NEW ANGLE YOU PLAY ON TO BURY GM: LOST FAMILY FORTUNES There is NO moral high ground. All 3 Detroit headquartered car makers all got into severe debt loads and all 3 had to find a solution for NOT going belly up...FoMoCo mortgaged the actual Blue Oval logo and Mustang trade mark to avoid going belly up....1 year before GM and Chryco got bail out money....and Ford was up there trying to get bailout money too just in case the Blue Oval and Mustang trade mark money would dry up...and if you remember, the banks remortgaged money was as much as the bail out money and FoMoCo was still not sure if that would be enough... There was NO THOUGHT put into anybody's family fortunes when FoMoCo applied for said mortgage and the possible bail out money... THAT is reality of things. Anything else said about GM or Chryco or Ford is just noise pollution to try to get a leg up and piss on the other... THAT would include YOUR analysis Wings!!! My analysis is the closest to reality! Besides...that is old news now.... Ya'll should move away from the Detroit 3 bailout scene and concentrate on your Presidential candidate that REALLY used those very same tactics to get ahead...with REAL INTENTIONS OF SCREWING OVER THE LITTLE GUY.... GM, Ford and Chrysler. That was a heap of a mess that had collected over 4-5 decades with a myriad of reasons not just bad management and shoddy vehicle construction...many diverse reasons... But BOTH of your Presidential candidates FULLY KNOWINGLY have screwed over the little guy's family fortunes.... Put your energy in bitchin' about that! Because the USA is gonna go down the loo with either candidate...

This is gonna be a boring one for me...and for you folk to see what Im gonna choose. Why? Ive posted these cars before... Born in 1973... My choice...1973 Pontiac Trans Am 455 SD. I was 16 in 1989. My choice...1989 Pontiac Trans Am Turbo 20th Anniversary. So...in order to find something new to add to this thread, allow me some time to truly think it over and choose other cars Id like to own instead of me going to my usual repertoire.