GM Teaming with Bechtel To Deploy Widespread Fast-Charging Station Network

So this is a slight concern of my friend with his Tesla...

10 minutes ago, Paolino said:

So this is a slight concern of my friend with his Tesla...

Why?

I don't think GM will sell enough electrics for this to matter.

Interesting that both GM and Bechtel want to build out this but not invest their own cash. Very weird.

59 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Interesting that both GM and Bechtel want to build out this but not invest their own cash. Very weird.

Because they know it is a loosing proposition financially.

15 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Because they know it is a loosing proposition financially.

It is a Chicken or the Egg situation. Charging is everywhere, but fast charging requires investment and if GM truly wants their Electric Auto's to take off and sell, then you have to invest in the infrastructure. ICE Auto's where this way in the late 1800's / early 1900's. Those that invest will win I believe.

Tesla wins in this regards as they have been building their charging setup for the customers to use. Tesla's biggest problem is Musk and his quick lose of interest once something becomes mainstream versus the shiny new toy and distractions with tunneling, Mars, Narcissistic Look At Me! syndrome.

26 minutes ago, dfelt said:

It is a Chicken or the Egg situation. Charging is everywhere, but fast charging requires investment and if GM truly wants their Electric Auto's to take off and sell, then you have to invest in the infrastructure. ICE Auto's where this way in the late 1800's / early 1900's. Those that invest will win I believe.

Tesla wins in this regards as they have been building their charging setup for the customers to use. Tesla's biggest problem is Musk and his quick lose of interest once something becomes mainstream versus the shiny new toy and distractions with tunneling, Mars, Narcissistic Look At Me! syndrome.

Elon Musk would be wise to give all executive control of Tesla to a real car guy.  Elon can then focus on other things instead.

3 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I don't think GM will sell enough electrics for this to matter.

 

I think GM is making sure the egg is there before the chicken. 

Failure.

Tesla's supercharging network is an asset that Tesla possesses that appears to be overlooked.   Tesla's network is an advantage that Tesla has over all other manufacturer's  EV sales.  That network system is a big part of Tesla's prestige. When VW and now GM  matches Tesla's charging network in term of size and accessibility,  that might  just eat in to Tesla's appeal just a tad and maybe reverse Tesla's God-like aura they have....

Its in GM's best interest to build up a and beef up the charging network system if they want to succeed in selling EVs to the masses. 

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Failure.

How is setting up a nationwide infrastructure for the future (as well as coinciding with their EV plans between now and 2023) a “failure”? Somehow I’m guessing 100+ years ago, you would have branded the mass expansion of fossil fuel stations across the country as a “failure” as well. 

The failure in this case is still charging time.  It is in portability.  It is in much higher vehicle purchase prices.  It is in profitability.  It is in customer resistance to all of this.  I can see why they are calling for investors, it is to shield themselves from incredible losses when it crashes.

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

The failure in this case is still charging time.  It is in portability.  It is in much higher vehicle purchase prices.  It is in profitability.  It is in customer resistance to all of this.  I can see why they are calling for investors, it is to shield themselves from incredible losses when it crashes.

It is in YOUR FAILURE to accept change of Habits. You so want static life that you FAIL to see progress. 

The early 1900's was not Electrics time due to the lack of proper battery storage. We have that now and constant improvements, so changing the habit to plug in at night so you start each day off full on a 300 mile battery pack is just a change of habit without the petro smell, toxic absorption into the hands, under ground storage, distribution, etc.

While I also see their approach to shield themselves from the cost and always potential immediate loss of money as a public trading company where you have to bow to the shareholders, this is smart business sense.

As the XFC charging infrastructure grows and as we move away from the Li Ion batteries to Solid State such as Toshiba is building and is going into Nissan and Mitsubishi auto's, we will see this change over much faster than you or others will expect. 

Most woman and a large amount of men would love to not have to go to the gas station or deal with the maintenance of the current Auto's that go on sale. This is why the 100,000 mile tune up and service became the new norm.

Electrics with their minimal service will change this again for humans that do not want to be bothered with service of the ICE variety.

Reality is complex. 

13 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Reality is complex. 

Very few people can process this.

7 hours ago, ocnblu said:

The failure in this case is still charging time.  It is in portability.  It is in much higher vehicle purchase prices.  It is in profitability.  It is in customer resistance to all of this.  I can see why they are calling for investors, it is to shield themselves from incredible losses when it crashes.

Charging times are going down every year. Supper chargers are headed towards fifteen minutes full charges and less. You need to keep up with the changes before making the same old arguments against it. 

And prices? Seriously? Maybe you haven’t noticed, but ICE cars aren’t exactly cheap  at least EVs give cheaper fueling options and simple economics dictate that they will be at least financially on par with the old tech ICE auto. It’s really not that hard figure when you’re not fighting it every chance you get.

And calling for investors is standard fair in any business. You think the ICE automotive started and succeeded without investors? 

We we will just sidestep the fact that at least with an EV, I can “fuel” it at home while I sleep and never have to stop in another dirty ass gas station if I do choose (and if you knew anything about the average gas station in Phoenix, AZ, you would know exactly what I’m talking about). 

54 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

^^^^ Amen to all that.  It is too bad that there are those who fear and resist technological change as much as they do (for their own reasons).

Even today there are people that resist most modern technology including ICE---the Amish.  They live in the past and are ignored.   Other luddites can join them. 

24 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Even today there are people that resist most modern technology including ICE---the Amish.  They live in the past and are ignored.   Other luddites can join them. 

And then there is the moral cost of ICE. I am unwilling to put American service men and women in Harms way for cheap oil.

8 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

And then there is the moral cost of ICE. I am unwilling to put American service men and women in Harms way for cheap oil.

To be fair US gets only about 13% of its oil in the Middle East.  About 40% is local production and the rest is between Canada, Latin America and Africa

https://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised

1 minute ago, ykX said:

To be fair US gets only about 13% of its oil in the Middle East.  About 40% is local production and the rest is between Canada, Latin America and Africa

https://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised

Yet that percentage has been enough for us to go to war over it multiple times. It needs to stop. 

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Yet that percentage has been enough for us to go to war over it multiple times. It needs to stop. 

Politics not always make economical sense.  I believe I have read that US can do completely without oil from Middle East.

In any case, as I said before, I am all for EVs.  With better infrastructure more people will consider EV.

8 minutes ago, ykX said:

Politics not always make economical sense.  I believe I have read that US can do completely without oil from Middle East.

In any case, as I said before, I am all for EVs.  With better infrastructure more people will consider EV.

We can but there are too many palms that need greasing by that the oil industry to make that happen. Oil is politics sadly. 

And I am with you on the EV front. It’s coming whether the dinosaurs want to accept it or not. 

1 hour ago, ykX said:

To be fair US gets only about 13% of its oil in the Middle East.  About 40% is local production and the rest is between Canada, Latin America and Africa

https://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised

That is a 2012 data very old/out of date.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

Here is the current info from the actual GOV:

On 5/28/2019 at 12:18 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Why?

I should have phrased it differently... in the past on a long trip he almost ran out of charge... so it was a concern of his as he was having trouble finding a charging station.

1 hour ago, Paolino said:

I should have phrased it differently... in the past on a long trip he almost ran out of charge... so it was a concern of his as he was having trouble finding a charging station.

Ah, well more fast chargers will be a good thing.... but I don't know that Tesla is compatible with other brand fast chargers without a special adapter. 

1 hour ago, Paolino said:

I should have phrased it differently... in the past on a long trip he almost ran out of charge... so it was a concern of his as he was having trouble finding a charging station.

15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Ah, well more fast chargers will be a good thing.... but I don't know that Tesla is compatible with other brand fast chargers without a special adapter. 

Yup Tesla sells that adapter. Makes a wonderful gift for the Tesla owner on the go!

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/sae-j1772-charging-adapter.html

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

 

Yup Tesla sells that adapter. Makes a wonderful gift for the Tesla owner on the go!

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/sae-j1772-charging-adapter.html

 

240V max... not going to be Supercharging or even Fast Charging speeds. 

8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

240V max... not going to be Supercharging or even Fast Charging speeds. 

True, but at least it would allow you to use other chargers. I figure give it time and like Tesla is doing in China, they will eventually either drop their proprietary plug or add the CCS one to the auto's.

This thread OMG  you guys KILL me!

35 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

This thread OMG  you guys KILL me!

Well your head was already in the sand regarding actual facts so your body might as well join the party. 

58 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

actual facts

51 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

 

Your blank reply (or sad attempt at humor) pretty much says it all. 

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

 

And you wonder why you catch so much grief for trolling EV articles. 

EVs are coming...

EVs ARE the future whether we want to accept that reality or not.

15 hours ago, dfelt said:

We have that now and constant improvements, so changing the habit to plug in at night so you start each day off full on a 300 mile battery pack is just a change of habit...

Observation : if most EV owner's simply charge at home overnight, Teslas give a minimum of -what- 250 miles range AND the average driver drives only 30 miles per day, what are all the Teslas I see at Superchargers at 10AM or 3PM?? They can't all be interstate travelers; are 250-300 miles range Tesla owners still feeling range anxiety??

26 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Observation : if most EV owner's simply charge at home overnight, Teslas give a minimum of -what- 250 miles range AND the average driver drives only 30 miles per day, what are all the Teslas I see at Superchargers at 10AM or 3PM?? They can't all be interstate travelers; are 250-300 miles range Tesla owners still feeling range anxiety??

Good question.

Ya gotta ask those guys. 

Because what you observe maybe correct. But seeing as the US has a population of 325 some odd million people and there are 275 million registered vehicles on US roads to which there are at least 200 000 Teslas, on 45 000 miles of interstate highways, Id say that there is a good chance that those Teslas you see on those Superchargers are indeed interstate travelers.

Im mean, the interstate highway system was created JUST for that reason, so Americans could travel the continental United States with ease...from one coast to the other. From North to South and every little town, city and state to be connected.

This is how the automobile got to be so infused with American culture.  Cruising hot city nights, but also family vacations trying to get to Wally world.

Its a long way down, the holiday road.

And when we are not going on family vacations, we are racing on them. 

Rolling down the highway, because...LIFE... is a highway.  (Canuck rock-n-roll rules! ?)

Above reply is a giant box of empty.  Where's the beef?  There ain't none.

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Above reply is a giant box of empty.  Where's the beef?  There ain't none.

Most Ev lovers are Vegan..a.t least he is consistent.

29 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Most Ev lovers are Vegan..a.t least he is consistent.

Not this EV lover, I know where the Beef is and the Taste of Organic is much better than laced with Toxic Diesel.  

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Not this EV lover, I know where the Beef is and the Taste of Organic is much better than laced with Toxic Diesel.  

I am sure OCN finds plenty of beef himself.

It's electrifying when it happens, he just won't admit it.

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

Observation : if most EV owner's simply charge at home overnight, Teslas give a minimum of -what- 250 miles range AND the average driver drives only 30 miles per day, what are all the Teslas I see at Superchargers at 10AM or 3PM?? They can't all be interstate travelers; are 250-300 miles range Tesla owners still feeling range anxiety??

Why do I know a lot of people who put gas in their car when they still have a half of a tank in it? Do they have gas range anxiety? The same folks you are seeing are probably the same folks who did that in their old gas powered cars. 

7 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Above reply is a giant box of empty.  Where's the beef?  There ain't none.

Nice of you to admit that you have provided no real substance to the discussion, as usual. Don’t worry though. Everyone here already knew your intent. 

The EVs are coming to get you. Better store up all your gasoline now lol. 

4 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Most Ev lovers are Vegan..a.t least he is consistent.

I would like to state that while I support EVs in general, I am and will always be a full blooded carnivore. 

5 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Why do I know a lot of people who put gas in their car when they still have a half of a tank in it? Do they have gas range anxiety? The same folks you are seeing are probably the same folks who did that in their old gas powered cars. 

 

I do that when on road trips.  Driving from Phoenix to Cleveland I would fill up at half a tank...never knew how far the next gas station would be along I-40 in the fecal void of the Texas panhandle or Oklahoma.   Plus filling up at half a tank gets me outside walking, a good break at a predicable interval. 

25 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I do that when on road trips.  Driving from Phoenix to Cleveland I would fill up at half a tank...never knew how far the next gas station would be along I-40 in the fecal void of the Texas panhandle or Oklahoma.   Plus filling up at half a tank gets me outside walking, a good break at a predicable interval. 

I am dying laughing right now because I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I have done the I-40 drive five times (NC to Cali and back one time and Arizona to NC and back the other times) and yes, you definitely have to pick your spots in between Amarillo and OKC. Too bad cars can't run off of dead skunks and deer. Then you would have an endless supply of both in the panhandle! "yeah, let me get some of that venison 89 octane!"

Id like to say that, I support EVs.

Im also a VEGAN myself. 

I just like meat to be served with my veggies.

Its a personal choice. 

About my fueling habits. 

My daily driven habits are as follows.  I fill up to the brim, and then go as low as possible before I fuel up again. But I have a gasoline station on the way to work and another that is almost right next to the restaurant and another that is very close to my house. And my daily commute is but a 6 mile trip going and another 6 mile trip coming back.

But, If I need to travel far, I make sure I have enough to get me to my destination, and then some so if Im stuck in traffic, or there are wild detours (you never know in Montreal) I dont run out of gas. 

So, more often than not, on long trips, my tank is full full...

24 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I am dying laughing right now because I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I have done the I-40 drive five times (NC to Cali and back one time and Arizona to NC and back the other times) and yes, you definitely have to pick your spots in between Amarillo and OKC. Too bad cars can't run off of dead skunks and deer. Then you would have an endless supply of both in the panhandle! "yeah, let me get some of that venison 89 octane!"

I’ve done I-40 in Az and Nm several times in past on Denver to Phoenix drives.  

 On the 2017 Phoenix to Cleveland dash,  I left Phoenix at 7pm on a Saturday and arrived at my house outside Cleveland over 50hrs later, about 2am Tuesday morning.  

Driving across Texas and Oklahoma I was watching for tornadoes since it was June and raining.  

I never want to do a drive like that again...but had to get the dogs from AZ to Ohio.  

17 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I’ve done I-40 in Az and Nm several times in past on Denver to Phoenix drives.  

 On the 2017 Phoenix to Cleveland dash,  I left Phoenix at 7pm on a Saturday and arrived at my house outside Cleveland over 50hrs later, about 2am Tuesday morning.  

Driving across Texas and Oklahoma I was watching for tornadoes since it was June and raining.  

I never want to do a drive like that again...but had to get the dogs from AZ to Ohio.  

That is a doozy of a drive. When I moved from NC to Arizona in ‘07, it was me, some clothes, and my two cats in a ‘95 Eagle Talon with the front passenger seat removed for extra space. To that was an adventure would be a vast understatement. Man, I miss that little car lol. 

In '97, I drove from Ann Arbor, MI to Colorado Springs, CO after I left grad school and heading out to my first corporate job in a new city and state.   I drove in my '87 Mustang GT stuffed full of clothes, computers, misc stuff.  Did stay in the Chicago suburbs a couple days visiting friends then spent one night outside Omaha.

The Denver to Phoenix and back trips were all in my '00 Grand Cherokee,  and the 2017 Phoenix to Cleveland drive was in my '14 Grand Cherokee, had only had it a couple months and it only had 25k miles at the time.  It is great on long drives..smooth and comfortable.   But tight inside w/ two people, luggage and dog crates.  Good thing the 6 dogs all weigh between 6lbs and 15lbs each..