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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Interactive Review: 2020 Toyota 86 GT

      The model formally known as the Scion FR-S comes in for its interactive review

    Next up on the review vehicle playlist here at C&G's Detroit Bureau is the 2020 Toyota 86, a vehicle I haven't driven since it was called the Scion FR-S. A lot has changed with this model aside from its name since the one I drove back in 2013. The styling has been refreshed, various tweaks made the suspension, and minor updates to the interior. What hasn't changed is the 2.0L boxer-four from Subaru that produces 205 horsepower and 156 pound-feet of torque. My test vehicle has the standard six-speed manual.

    The as-tested price for this 86 comes to $34,783, partly due to a couple of TRD options being fitted. Here's some first impressions,

    • The 2.0L boxer-four isn't a great sounding to begin with, sounding like a bucket of bolts being shaken. The optional TRD exhaust only makes the noise worse.
    • Handling is still this car's strong suit, offering minimal body roll and crisp steering.
    • The touchscreen radio is very barebones, but does offer Apple CarPlay.

    I'll have more thoughts throughout the week, and will be doing my best to answer various questions from you. 

    Toyota 86 2.jpgToyota 86 3.jpgJF1ZNAE16L9751075.png

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    $34k and it doesn’t have any power and it isn’t very nice inside, so what do you get for all that money?

    Also there are 6 cylinder cars with 400 hp putting out 21/28 mpg or even beating that number.

    Edited by smk4565
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    4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    What has been changed since it has been introduced?

    Updated styling, new radio and climate controls, improved instrument cluster, changes to the suspension, and others.

    3 hours ago, David said:

    With Torque being so weak, how is the off the line pull?

    How is high speed passing in this car?

    Equal to the 2013, better or worse since your last review?

    • Does surprisingly well off the line, where it lacks is in the mid-range
    • Tough as you need to plan and bear in mind you'll be wondering where all of the power went in the mid-range
    • Some aspects are better, will need to spend more time to fully answer that.
    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    $34k and it doesn’t have any power and it isn’t very nice inside, so what do you get for all that money?

    Also there are 6 cylinder cars with 400 hp putting out 21/28 mpg or even beating that number.

    The driving experience, not everyone wants something that is stupid fast. See also the Miata.

     

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    Am I the only one to actually like this car?

    OK...NOT the Toyota, the Subie.  But that is just me being douchie against Toyota.  :Toyota:

    There is a reason why I like this car:  ITS A 2 DOOR SPORTS CAR IN AN ERA WHEN COUPES AND/OR SPORTS CARS  ARE NON-EXISTENT.   And THAT to me is more than enough reason to like this car.

    I do not know if you guys know that I HATE  HATED  the 5th gen Camaro.    Well...I saw 3 today randomly.  Almost back to back to back going to work.   2 6 cylinder models and 1 SS.   The SS made some lovely V8 sounds as I heard it while driving in back of it ....and  I felt something that I havent felt in a looooong time.   I miss when 2 door coupes and sports cars were all over the damned place and not some mythical unicorn in a sea of CUVs.     

    We should be thankful these exist...especially from appliance company #1 Toyota.  And no worries, those folk who want a little more ooomph from their Toyobarus

    https://elementtuning.com/monster-86-subaru-brz-and-toyota-86-v8-conversion/

     

    Picture courtesy LSXTV

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    I get that they are small and light, so you don't need a lot of power, but this car is slow for $34k.  Golf GTI is a much better buy.   I'd imagine too whatever good handling it has, it pays for in ride comfort, being a short wheelbase car with some stiff suspension set for handling.

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    What if these cars had a racing series dedicated only to them?  Like how the Porsche 944s, Camaros and Miatas had. Would that make a difference in ya'lls perception?

    Because, Porsche 944s and Miatas of their day werent all that fast...but were/are still revered by...um...car enthusiasts.

    Like...arent we car enthusiasts here?  

    Because we all act like it but then we shyte on this car...  I get that this is a Toyota, and I applaud and appreciate the shytting , but at heart, this car is a dedicated sports car through and through.  Yes...with a torqueless 4 banger. Subaru should have offered their WRX engine in it while Toyota could have at least tried to shoehorn their BMW  sourced inline 6 from their Supra for a hyper trim 86 negating the need to LS swap.  But at the end of the day, the Toyobarus are purebred sportscars...  And THAT is a good thing!  

     

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    16 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    I can get a better driving experience for the same and possibly cheaper coin. 

    the old four cylinder Camaro would have been a better driving experience.

     

    and armrest, 200 dollar OPTION!!!!

    Edited by regfootball
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    20 hours ago, daves87rs said:

    Still a nice car...they can be fun to drive. But still about ten grand too much......

    Hence when it comes to my recommendation in my finished review, I likely say the base model is the better buy ($27k or so).

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    4 hours ago, William Maley said:

    Hence when it comes to my recommendation in my finished review, I likely say the base model is the better buy ($27k or so).

    Yep!

    Always find it interesting that when it comes to small fun cars, the base model tends to better when there is no junk added..........

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    "The 2.0L boxer-four isn't a great sounding to begin with, sounding like a bucket of bolts being shaken." That was good Maley, I got a good laugh out of that! It's true they are an odd sounding engine.

    I think the only thing these cars have going for them is the RWD driving dynamics, a lot of drifters like them. They definitely need some more pony's under the hood and to drop the MSRP at least $5k! 

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    On 8/28/2020 at 10:27 PM, smk4565 said:

    I get that they are small and light, so you don't need a lot of power, but this car is slow for $34k.  Golf GTI is a much better buy.   I'd imagine too whatever good handling it has, it pays for in ride comfort, being a short wheelbase car with some stiff suspension set for handling.

    Sure, lets compare apples to oranges.  FWD souped up hatchback and RWD sporty coupe.

    I bet you never driven either one but rush to make such statements.

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    13 hours ago, William Maley said:

    Hence when it comes to my recommendation in my finished review, I likely say the base model is the better buy ($27k or so).

    Everyone gets caught up on the price of the fully loaded car.  It has a bunch of options really not necessary for the driving enjoyment.

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    On 8/28/2020 at 5:08 PM, surreal1272 said:

    I can get a better driving experience for the same and possibly cheaper coin. 

     

    On 8/28/2020 at 4:07 PM, David said:

    Better be one hell of an ExPeRiEnCe for that kind of Coin and Weak ass engine.

    For that kind of money you can easily find a 2.0 or 3.6 Camaro(probably with the 1LE package as well) or 2.3 Mustang.

    A 1LE 2.0T Camaro can be had for $29,500.

    1LE 3.6 Camaro can be had for $32,100.

    The 2.3 EcoBoost Mustang can be had with the "high performance package"(I thought it was just "performance package" in the past) for $32,300.

    I do understand this Toyota is probably as loaded up as it can get so with the Mustang and Camaro adding the performance packages for those prices, you're definitely in lesser trims.

    It's unfortunate because I think the Toyota LOOKS like a perfect alternative to the MX-5, as I'm not a fan of convertibles. It just sucks it has an engine not really worthy of the vehicle. It doesn't so much need more horsepower or even toque, it just needs to be a more rev happy engine that inspires aggressive driving. 

    On 8/28/2020 at 9:13 PM, oldshurst442 said:

    Am I the only one to actually like this car?

    OK...NOT the Toyota, the Subie.  But that is just me being douchie against Toyota.  :Toyota:

    There is a reason why I like this car:  ITS A 2 DOOR SPORTS CAR IN AN ERA WHEN COUPES AND/OR SPORTS CARS  ARE NON-EXISTENT.   And THAT to me is more than enough reason to like this car.

    I do not know if you guys know that I HATE  HATED  the 5th gen Camaro.    Well...I saw 3 today randomly.  Almost back to back to back going to work.   2 6 cylinder models and 1 SS.   The SS made some lovely V8 sounds as I heard it while driving in back of it ....and  I felt something that I havent felt in a looooong time.   I miss when 2 door coupes and sports cars were all over the damned place and not some mythical unicorn in a sea of CUVs.     

    We should be thankful these exist...especially from appliance company #1 Toyota.  And no worries, those folk who want a little more ooomph from their Toyobarus

    https://elementtuning.com/monster-86-subaru-brz-and-toyota-86-v8-conversion/

     

    Picture courtesy LSXTV

    I think it is extremely attractive. I would absolutely like to drive one and they're probably quite a bit of fun. 

    The downside to me is extracting more power out of them. I remember watching a full detailed video about modifying them and dynoing them after each common aftermarket part and with like a tune, intake, and exhaust, they only got like 10whp out of it. They just don't respond well to common aftermarket parts and pretty much need boost to really add any power. That would be a huge downside to me. It isn't wicked quick and I wouldn't be going for some 400hp Toyota 86 or whatever, but I'd like to be able to get like 225-250WHP. That would be properly quick for the size of car.

    Edited by ccap41
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    On 8/28/2020 at 11:08 PM, smk4565 said:

    It would be a slow racing series and no one want to watch a one make race.  154 lb-ft just isn’t enough for over $30k of car.

    When you're rating, you're never pulling from 1500rpm anyway. You don't need much torque in a car that's on a racetrack. it would benefit from a fatter mid-range but it doesn't need much from 1500-3000rpm for a racing series. 

    Look at F1 cars if you're doubting that fact. 

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    1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

     

    For that kind of money you can easily find a 2.0 or 3.6 Camaro(probably with the 1LE package as well) or 2.3 Mustang.

    A 1LE 2.0T Camaro can be had for $29,500.

    1LE 3.6 Camaro can be had for $32,100.

    The 2.3 EcoBoost Mustang can be had with the "high performance package"(I thought it was just "performance package" in the past) for $32,300.

    I do understand this Toyota is probably as loaded up as it can get so with the Mustang and Camaro adding the performance packages for those prices, you're definitely in lesser trims.

    It's unfortunate because I think the Toyota LOOKS like a perfect alternative to the MX-5, as I'm not a fan of convertibles. It just sucks it has an engine not really worthy of the vehicle. It doesn't so much need more horsepower or even toque, it just needs to be a more rev happy engine that inspires aggressive driving. 

    I think it is extremely attractive. I would absolutely like to drive one and they're probably quite a bit of fun. 

    The downside to me is extracting more power out of them. I remember watching a full detailed video about modifying them and dynoing them after each common aftermarket part and with like a tune, intake, and exhaust, they only got like 10whp out of it. They just don't respond well to common aftermarket parts and pretty much need boost to really add any power. That would be a huge downside to me. It isn't wicked quick and I wouldn't be going for some 400hp Toyota 86 or whatever, but I'd like to be able to get like 225-250WHP. That would be properly quick for the size of car.

    For more than $1000 LESS, I can get a 6.2L V8 Camaro. As otherS have said, get the base model 86 if you want a decent deal. All the options add up to about $8K too much especially when none the options involve more power. Listen, don’t get me wrong here. Price aside, I get the appeal of the car. As a former MR2 owner, I get it. I also get value and this car, with options, is not a good value at all.

    Edited by surreal1272
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    9 hours ago, ykX said:

    Sure, lets compare apples to oranges.  FWD souped up hatchback and RWD sporty coupe.

    I bet you never driven either one but rush to make such statements.

    I have not driven either, but there aren't many cars in this segment.  I have driven the Genesis Coupe with a V6 years ago, that at least had 300 hp for similar money to the BRZ/86.  A Nissan 370Z is the same price and has 332 hp and it is is a fairly light weight car, smaller than something like a Camaro or Mustang.  

    And I don't expect the 86 to drop a 300 hp V6 in there, but I don't see why they can't offer the 241 hp turbo 4 in the Lexus IS or the 268 hp Subaru WRX engine.  Either would work and make this car worth $34k.

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    12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I have not driven either, but there aren't many cars in this segment.  I have driven the Genesis Coupe with a V6 years ago, that at least had 300 hp for similar money to the BRZ/86.  A Nissan 370Z is the same price and has 332 hp and it is is a fairly light weight car, smaller than something like a Camaro or Mustang.  

    And I don't expect the 86 to drop a 300 hp V6 in there, but I don't see why they can't offer the 241 hp turbo 4 in the Lexus IS or the 268 hp Subaru WRX engine.  Either would work and make this car worth $34k.

    Again, this car is fully loaded costs $34k it starts at $27k.  370Z starts at $31k, fully loaded it reaches $45k (which is ridiculous by itself)

    370Z weight is 3200lbs minimum, 86 weight is 2800lbs.

    Could 86 use more power? Absolutely!  But comparing fully loaded car to a bare bones Mustang, Camaro or 370Z is stupid.

    Mustang Ecoboost starts at 27k too but it will be a pig compared to 86 or Miata.  It has 300 hp but weight 3600lbs.

    I can tell you one thing, in autocross were agility and handling is the priority there are only few cars that rule: Miata, 86/BRZ, Corvette and 911/Cayman.  

     

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    On 8/28/2020 at 5:03 PM, ccap41 said:

    dRiViNg ExPeRiEnCe

    The Driving Experience is much better in my 2020 Ford Ranger. 

    45 minutes ago, ykX said:

    Again, this car is fully loaded costs $34k it starts at $27k.  370Z starts at $31k, fully loaded it reaches $45k (which is ridiculous by itself)

    370Z weight is 3200lbs minimum, 86 weight is 2800lbs.

    Could 86 use more power? Absolutely!  But comparing fully loaded car to a bare bones Mustang, Camaro or 370Z is stupid.

    Mustang Ecoboost starts at 27k too but it will be a pig compared to 86 or Miata.  It has 300 hp but weight 3600lbs.

    I can tell you one thing, in autocross were agility and handling is the priority there are only few cars that rule: Miata, 86/BRZ, Corvette and 911/Cayman.  

     

    Whcih is why my Daughter drives a C6 Z06, my son drives an S2000, Daughters boyfriend has a Mitsu Evo....good autocross cars all. 

    19 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    For more than $1000 LESS, I can get a 6.2L V8 Camaro. As otherS have said, get the base model 86 if you want a decent deal. All the options add up to about $8K too much especially when none the options involve more power. Listen, don’t get me wrong here. Price aside, I get the appeal of the car. As a former MR2 owner, I get it. I also get value and this car, with options, is not a good value at all.

    I am kind of becoming more of a truck guy. Would buy a Mustang GT or Civic Type R if I were to spend $ for a passenger car in this price range. 

    21 hours ago, ccap41 said:

     

    For that kind of money you can easily find a 2.0 or 3.6 Camaro(probably with the 1LE package as well) or 2.3 Mustang.

    A 1LE 2.0T Camaro can be had for $29,500.

    1LE 3.6 Camaro can be had for $32,100.

    The 2.3 EcoBoost Mustang can be had with the "high performance package"(I thought it was just "performance package" in the past) for $32,300.

    I do understand this Toyota is probably as loaded up as it can get so with the Mustang and Camaro adding the performance packages for those prices, you're definitely in lesser trims.

    It's unfortunate because I think the Toyota LOOKS like a perfect alternative to the MX-5, as I'm not a fan of convertibles. It just sucks it has an engine not really worthy of the vehicle. It doesn't so much need more horsepower or even toque, it just needs to be a more rev happy engine that inspires aggressive driving. 

    I think it is extremely attractive. I would absolutely like to drive one and they're probably quite a bit of fun. 

    The downside to me is extracting more power out of them. I remember watching a full detailed video about modifying them and dynoing them after each common aftermarket part and with like a tune, intake, and exhaust, they only got like 10whp out of it. They just don't respond well to common aftermarket parts and pretty much need boost to really add any power. That would be a huge downside to me. It isn't wicked quick and I wouldn't be going for some 400hp Toyota 86 or whatever, but I'd like to be able to get like 225-250WHP. That would be properly quick for the size of car.

    The Miata is IMHO so much more of a pure sports car. They have retractible hardtop 3rd gen Miatas, and rF in the 4th gen. Or get one of the removable hardtops for the first two gens. I love the 86/BRZ, but could not justifry it over a Miata. 

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