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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    By William Maley •

    Quick Drive: 2018 Mazda6 Signature

      The turbo makes the difference

    The Mazda6 is a prime example of how making various improvements throughout the lifecycle can make a vehicle. Since the first model I drove back in 2014, Mazda has been messing around with various aspects such as the interior and NVH levels. Last year saw Mazda make some key changes to 6 with the big news being the introduction of a turbocharged 2.5L four-cylinder from the CX-9 crossover. This was to address one of the major shortcomings of the sedan, lackluster performance when it comes to making a pass or merging onto a freeway. There are some other minor changes to go with the updated engine that help make the Mazda6 feel a bit more rounded.

    • The turbocharged 2.5L four-cylinder produces 227 horsepower (250 on premium fuel) and 310 pound-feet of torque. This is paired with a six-speed automatic to the front wheels. 
    • I praised this engine in the CX-9 I drove back in the summer with a linear flow of power and no hint of turbo lag. Those carry over to the 6, along with the feeling of confidence that you’ll be able to pass or merge onto a freeway without any issue. It was quite startling how quick the 6 accelerated from 45 to 70 on a freeway on-ramp, only taking a few seconds. The six-speed automatic works seamlessly with the turbo engine, providing snappy up and downshifts.
    • One other trait of the turbo engine I was impressed with was NVH levels. There was barely any engine noise or the whoosh of the turbo when accelerating.
    • Mazda hasn’t messed with the 6’s chassis with the addition of the turbo engine. It still has the planted feeling and minimal body roll that imparts a lot of confidence to a driver. Steering is quick and provides the right balance of weight and feel.
    • One surprise is how the 2018 model rides slightly better than the 2017 model as bumps are better isolated. This might be 
    • Exterior enhancements are small with a new grille design, LED headlights, and the 19-inch wheels. But they do a surprising job of keeping of the 6’s exterior looking fresh.
    • The enhancements for the interior really help Mazda’s ambition to become more premium. The dash has been slightly restyled and now comes with stitched upholstery and natural wood trim. The climate control system has been redesigned that makes it slightly easier to use.
    • Mazda has started rolling out Apple CarPlay and Android Auto compatibility on the 6 for 2018 via an update. My test car had had the update, but I was unable to try it out as I could not pick the option in the system. I’m not sure of the issue, but I hope to try it once again in a future Mazda product.
    • The turbo engine is only available on the Grand Touring, Grand Touring Reserve, and Signature. My test 6 was the top-line Signature that carries a base price of $34,750. With destination and some options, the as-tested price came to $36,140. If I was to buy one, I would drop down to the Grand Touring Reserve which begins at $31,750. I would lose out on the 360-degree camera system, Nappa leather upholstery, and digital gauge cluster. But I would keep a number of desirable features such as the ventilated front seats, heated steering wheel, heads-up display, and power front seats.
    • Every Mazda6 review has seen me come to the same conclusion; the sedan is so close to being considered one of the best, but it is missing a certain thing. But this conclusion is different. Mazda has been able to fix the various issues I have complained about over the past few years and now have a very compelling midsize sedan. It's a shame that the 6 along with other midsize sedans are being overshadowed by the likes of crossovers. But for those who still have their heart set on a sedan, then I have no issue in recommending the 6 as an option worthy of consideration.

    Disclaimer: Mazda Provided the 6, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas

    2018 Mazda6 Signature Gallery

    Year: 2018
    Make: Mazda
    Model: 6
    Trim: Signature
    Engine: Turbocharged 2.5L Skyactiv-G Four-Cylinder
    Driveline: Six-Speed Automatic, Front-Wheel Drive
    Horsepower @ RPM: 227 @ 5,000 (Regular), 250 @ 5,000 (Premium)
    Torque @ RPM: 310 @ 2,000 rpm
    Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 23/31/26
    Curb Weight: 3,560 lbs
    Location of Manufacture: Hofu, Japan
    Base Price: $34,750
    As Tested Price: $36,140 (Includes $890.00 Destination Charge)

    Options:
    Machine Gray Paint - $300.00
    Scuff Plates - $125.00
    Cargo Mat - $75.00

    Edited by William Maley

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    G. David Felt

    @William Maley How is the interior space for big people? I grew up with my parents having a 626, my moms car and later my oldest sister got a Mazda 6 in 2007 which if I was in the front no one could sit behind me. 

    So how is the interior space and rear headroom with that coupe sedan design?

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    William Maley
    2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    @William Maley How is the interior space for big people? I grew up with my parents having a 626, my moms car and later my oldest sister got a Mazda 6 in 2007 which if I was in the front no one could sit behind me. 

    So how is the interior space and rear headroom with that coupe sedan design?

    @dfelt I happen to be 5'8" or 5'9" and I fit ok behind the front seat with a decent amount of head and legroom. Legroom will become tight if a tall person is up front.

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    G. David Felt
    16 minutes ago, William Maley said:

    @dfelt I happen to be 5'8" or 5'9" and I fit ok behind the front seat with a decent amount of head and legroom. Legroom will become tight if a tall person is up front.

    Awesome, much appreciated, thank you.

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    A Horse With No Name

    If Chevrolet put the 2.0 into a lower level of Malibu it would be an obvious choice over this...but given the extra power...I think I would take the Mazda over the Malibu.

    Nice looking car and I wish them well with it.

    Chris

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    Suaviloquent

    DFelt how is this a relevant question for gods sakes you can’t fit yourself either headroom or legroom wise behind the driver seat adjusted for yourself in any midsize sedan currently available for sale.

     

    😛

     

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    G. David Felt
    2 minutes ago, Suaviloquent said:

    DFelt how is this a relevant question for gods sakes you can’t fit yourself either headroom or legroom wise behind the driver seat adjusted for yourself in any midsize sedan currently available for sale.

     

    😛

     

    ALWAYS RELEVANT!!!

    The biggest missed place in ALL AUTO REVIEWS is to clearly talk about how people sitting in the front will affect those sitting in the back. There is NEVER a perfect front seat sitting and back seat sitting that fits a perfect 4 or 5 adult placement. This is the LIE that the auto industry has not owned up to. You and your coworkers decide to go out to lunch and your the one who offered to drive. You and one coworker are US average size of 5'8" another is 5'6" tall but very large size and the other is 6'2" tall and you drive a Camry. Who sits where and why. 

    IMHO, ALL Auto Reviews should cover sizing and how it fits for the AVERAGE American but also if you have Large size people or tall people or even very short. 

    Just like many other areas in life that people either try to fit everyone into or ignor it totally, the interior space of sizing for a single person is a lie when you will always have a variety of sized people. They should clearly state a 4 adult person space seating in every car or SUV on how people will fit. Fine if 5'8" tall is the standard they want, but then clearly state how much head room, hip room, leg room, etc. is left or if there is not enough.

    We have discussed many times on how tight the compact to mid size 4 door sedan market is and how even when multiple OEMs state the same or near same seat size, one fits more comfy than another.

    The reviews are heavily biased on just the driver and not taking into account passengers.

    I could go on but I hope you get my point.

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    Robert Hall

    Back seats are usually for children or pets.     How many car buyers actually care if large adults fit in the back seat of a car?  It seems like an edge case, not a common use case. The driver space is the most important measurement.    However, I could see back seat space for adult passengers being a concern if you are a taxi, Uber or Lyft driver. 

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    ykX

    ykX 1,712

    Posted (edited)

    9 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Back seats are usually for children or pets.     How many car buyers actually care if large adults fit in the back seat of a car?  It seems like an edge case, not a common use case. The driver space is the most important measurement.    However, I could see back seat space for adult passengers being a concern if you are a taxi, Uber or Lyft driver. 

    Exactly.  These cars are family cars and usually back seat reserved for kids or pets.  Especially, in mid size sedan category.   You want to fit 5 full size adults in a car, you need to buy a full size sedan or CUV.

    My dad has 2016 Mazda 6 and one time I was driving  it with three 8 to 11 year old kids in the back, and they fit perfectly fine there,  

    Edited by ykX
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    A Horse With No Name
    2 hours ago, ykX said:

    Exactly.  These cars are family cars and usually back seat reserved for kids or pets.  Especially, in mid size sedan category.   You want to fit 5 full size adults in a car, you need to buy a full size sedan or CUV.

    My dad has 2016 Mazda 6 and one time I was driving  it with three 8 to 11 year old kids in the back, and they fit perfectly fine there,  

    That was the beauty of the Chrysler cab forward cars like the Intrepid and Concorde. They had loads of interior space in the back. We loved the one that we owned. 

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    G. David Felt
    5 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Back seats are usually for children or pets.     How many car buyers actually care if large adults fit in the back seat of a car?  It seems like an edge case, not a common use case. The driver space is the most important measurement.    However, I could see back seat space for adult passengers being a concern if you are a taxi, Uber or Lyft driver. 

    Sorry Cubical, I have to down vote this. Even when I was 12 I was already 6' tall and my sisters were almost as tall as I even being older. Many people do not want a minivan  or full size van to carry adults. 

    Adult carrying is VERY IMPORTANT and I think many are to focused just on themselves the driver when you also need to think about others you carry. This is not a corner case but a much more common use case. I see it daily coworkers cramming into tiny cars, corpool in cars or SUVs and everyone is cramped it looks like. More common than many realize.

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    Drew Dowdell
    2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    That was the beauty of the Chrysler cab forward cars like the Intrepid and Concorde. They had loads of interior space in the back. We loved the one that we owned. 

    Those weren't mid-size thought the Intrepid could sell as low as a mid-size in poverty spec.  When those were out, the mid-size at Chrysler/Dodge would have been the Cirrus/Sebring and Stratus/Avenger respectively.   That would have been the equivalent of the Malibu or Contour.

    The LH cars overlapped with a bit of Taurus/Sable and Crown Vic, and Lumina/Impala/Grand Prix/Bonneville/Regal/LeSabre/Park Ave/Cutlass Supreme/Intrigue/88/98 

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    Robert Hall
    8 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Sorry Cubical, I have to down vote this. Even when I was 12 I was already 6' tall and my sisters were almost as tall as I even being older. Many people do not want a minivan  or full size van to carry adults. 

    Adult carrying is VERY IMPORTANT and I think many are to focused just on themselves the driver when you also need to think about others you carry. This is not a corner case but a much more common use case. I see it daily coworkers cramming into tiny cars, corpool in cars or SUVs and everyone is cramped it looks like. More common than many realize.

    I'm not an Uber driver and would never carpool, so I really don't care.  I've driven before w/ coworkers going to lunch, etc.  Never had anyone complain about backseat space in my Jeeps.    I do recall cramming a couple tall coworkers in the back of my Mustang years ago, was a bit of chore for them getting in and out of the back.  Likewise when I rode in the back of a '15 Mustang and a '76 Porsche 911--tight.  But for a 10 minute ride to lunch, no big deal.

    For people w/ children, that's what minivans and SUVs are for...

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    A Horse With No Name
    15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Those weren't mid-size thought the Intrepid could sell as low as a mid-size in poverty spec.  When those were out, the mid-size at Chrysler/Dodge would have been the Cirrus/Sebring and Stratus/Avenger respectively.   That would have been the equivalent of the Malibu or Contour.

    The LH cars overlapped with a bit of Taurus/Sable and Crown Vic, and Lumina/Impala/Grand Prix/Bonneville/Regal/LeSabre/Park Ave/Cutlass Supreme/Intrigue/88/98 

    You are very correct in that...but they were not really full sized either.

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    Robert Hall
    2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    You are very correct in that...but they were not really full sized either.

    They were as big as the FWD LeSabres, etc of the time IIRC..pretty big.  I liked them, had several '99-04 Intrepid rentals, a couple 300Ms, a Concorde and an LHS as rentals back in the day..really liked the design inside and out, and they drove quite nicely.. 

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    They were as big as the FWD LeSabres, etc of the time IIRC..

    Really...hmmmm.....Never really thought of the Intrepid/Concorde as that much larger than a Mazda 6.

    Passat also has decent interior room for a lot terribly large car.

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    Robert Hall
    2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Really...hmmmm.....Never really thought of the Intrepid/Concorde as that much larger than a Mazda 6. 

    Actually longer than the Impala or LeSabre....the LHS was DTS sized.  The 300M was a bit shorter w/ it's cropped rear. 

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    Drew Dowdell
    6 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    You are very correct in that...but they were not really full sized either.

    Well I disagree on that... particularly the last LHS/Concord.... that thing was a titanic and that's coming from a guy who loves big cars. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Well I disagree on that... particularly the last LHS/Concord.... that thing was a titanic and that's coming from a guy who loves big cars. 

    Hmmm....Okay. The last of the Interbreeds and Concordes fell to rust and transmission failure seemingly years ago here in Central Ohio.  My memory (like much of the rest of my so called thinking...) is probably flawed.

    Thankfully, youngest kid goes away to college next year...so Beetle can be trade in fodder for a BRZ or Miata.

    Back into a fun car....could not convince the wife we needed a V8 Camaro.

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    Drew Dowdell
    1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Hmmm....Okay. The last of the Interbreeds and Concordes fell to rust and transmission failure seemingly years ago here in Central Ohio.  My memory (like much of the rest of my so called thinking...) is probably flawed.

    Thankfully, youngest kid goes away to college next year...so Beetle can be trade in fodder for a BRZ or Miata.

    Back into a fun car....could not convince the wife we needed a V8 Camaro.

    I just had a V6 Camaro Convertible and that thing was way more fun than it should have been in that config.  Felt light-weight, fun to toss around, and the V6 had plenty of scoot without being excessive. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

    I just had a V6 Camaro Convertible and that thing was way more fun than it should have been in that config.  Felt light-weight, fun to toss around, and the V6 had plenty of scoot without being excessive. 

    I am working on that with the wife. I actually really like the 6th gen Camaro, Also  GM has a fantastic Blue BTW. Interior is an upgrade over 5th gen also.

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    ykX

    ykX 1,712

    Posted (edited)

    38 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Sorry Cubical, I have to down vote this. Even when I was 12 I was already 6' tall and my sisters were almost as tall as I even being older. Many people do not want a minivan  or full size van to carry adults. 

    Adult carrying is VERY IMPORTANT and I think many are to focused just on themselves the driver when you also need to think about others you carry. This is not a corner case but a much more common use case. I see it daily coworkers cramming into tiny cars, corpool in cars or SUVs and everyone is cramped it looks like. More common than many realize.

    Sorry, you are not a typical case. According to the latest statistical data average US male is 5 feet 9 inches tall and female is 5 feet 4 inches.  This car can perfectly accommodate two average males according to dimensions and @William Maley .

    Edit: two average adults in the back with four average adults total.

    Edited by ykX
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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, ykX said:

    Sorry, you are not a typical case. According to the latest statistical data average US male is 5 feet 9 inches tall and female is 5 feet 4 inches.  This car can perfectly accommodate two average males according to dimensions and @William Maley .

    As a sumo wrestler (or at least Sumo/Shrek sized) you would think he would support Japanese products...

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    ykX
    1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Probably two guys 6'3 if no one adult is in the back seat behind them.

    I meant two adults in the back seat which four average adults total.

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    A Horse With No Name
    3 minutes ago, ykX said:

    I meant two adults in the back seat which four average adults total.

    Since I have checked out the Mazda 6 of a regular member here....yes...seems reasonable.

    4 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Yes, like NBA and NFL players..doomed to having to buy full size SUVs to haul around their posse of hangers-on...

    Someone needs to sell bling and 26 inch rims. A market for everything...

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    G. David Felt

    @Drew Dowdell @Cubical-aka-Moltar @A Horse With No Name @ykX

    So this year, was 50, colonoscopy, total cardio and while I easily passed everything, I have put on weight, 310lbs. 40" waist. So September 1st I went into body builder mode. 🏋️‍♂️ Low fat, veggie, dairy and protein focused diet. Dropped 15lbs so far, gained an inch in the chest, lost one in the waist. making good weight gains in lifting. Gonna see how close I can get back to my college days of body building, but I admit, it will be hard as I do not see myself giving up wine and chocolate when I watch a movie over the weekend.

    Will keep ya guys updated, but no I doubt unless Cadillac brings back the Brougham that I will ever be back in a car as I like my comfort and need to always make sure I have room for myself in the seat behind myself. 

    That way, I make sure everyone riding with me is comfortable. After all, Happy wife, Happy Kids, Happy Friends, Happy Life!

    Convinced the wife to give Skiing a try this year, so she is also in the gym with me working hard to get into better shape for Ski season! ⛷️ 

    Now ya know how I measure rear seat room. Set the front seat for my comfort, get out, get in behind the front seat I just set and see how I fit. 

     

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    ccap41

    It makes zero sense for a major auto company to build around the 0.1% of the population. If they did that people 5' and under would struggle, which there are more people I run into that are 5' or less than over 6'6".

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    G. David Felt
    10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    It makes zero sense for a major auto company to build around the 0.1% of the population. If they did that people 5' and under would struggle, which there are more people I run into that are 5' or less than over 6'6".

    Missing the Point, easy to build by just having longer auto's. Selling the ATS and CTS L edition from China here in the US as regular auto's would give them room no other luxury automaker has and would make the back room seat debate a moot point. Very simple to do by adding 6 inches of leg room, tall people can slouch then and fit into the coupe roof line on everything that is out there now.

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    ccap41
    1 minute ago, dfelt said:

    Missing the Point, easy to build by just having longer auto's. Selling the ATS and CTS L edition from China here in the US as regular auto's would give them room no other luxury automaker has and would make the back room seat debate a moot point. Very simple to do by adding 6 inches of leg room, tall people can slouch then and fit into the coupe roof line on everything that is out there now.

    Buy said longer autos. They already make them. Why even ask about ones that are classified as "mid size" when you know you need longer autos? 

    ATS-L(Chinese ATS) would absolutely not be in a class of "room no other luxury automaker has". 

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    G. David Felt
    2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Buy said longer autos. They already make them. Why even ask about ones that are classified as "mid size" when you know you need longer autos? 

    ATS-L(Chinese ATS) would absolutely not be in a class of "room no other luxury automaker has". 

    They do not already make them here, you cannot get the L edition of the cadillacs here and if you could there is nothing the German or Asian brands have that would compete with an ATS that has additional 16 inches of rear leg room.

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    ccap41

    And I'm not missing the point. I think you are. You ask about size for every vehicle no matter the class and then act surprised or like the automaker is oblivious to different size humans. 

    28 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    They do not already make them here, you cannot get the L edition of the cadillacs here and if you could there is nothing the German or Asian brands have that would compete with an ATS that has additional 16 inches of rear leg room.

    Then go the next size up, CT6. There are vehicles that will fit you and you know from the outside which ones those are. 

    ATS vs ATS-L is not an additional 16 inches of rear legroom. It's 3.3 inches. Which is still smaller than a CTS so if you already said the CTS was too small why are you even bringing up the ATS? If you are interested in an ATS-L, buy a CTS.  

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    Drew Dowdell
    1 hour ago, dfelt said:

    They do not already make them here, you cannot get the L edition of the cadillacs here and if you could there is nothing the German or Asian brands have that would compete with an ATS that has additional 16 inches of rear leg room.

    The reason they don't sell those here is that they're not up to the US safety standards for side impact.  Get a CT6. 

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    G. David Felt

    Guess I have still failed as in the past Cadillac always sold tweener cars that were just a bit bigger than the Germans. Then they moved to building cars that compete with the Germans and they have gotten nailed over pretty much the same crap the Germans have in their auto's and on top of this with identical rear car seats we have people complain about Cadillac but it is OK with the Germans.

    So my point is use the US safety version but extend it to be equal in length to what is sold over in China and have a bit bigger auto. Take away the stupid talking points.

    FYI, I have been in the CT6, very nice car, but the rear I cannot fit in without the front seat pulled up and I slouch. Still not big enough for my body. Yes I am the exception to many here.

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    regfootball

    Per Car and Driver

    2018 Mazda6 signature

    C/D TEST RESULTS:
    Zero to 60 mph: 6.4 sec
    Zero to 100 mph: 16.0 sec
    Zero to 130 mph: 33.3 sec
    Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 6.7 sec
    Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.2 sec
    Top gear, 50–70 mph: 4.2 sec
    Standing ¼-mile: 14.9 sec @ 97 mph
    Top speed (drag limited, mfr’s claim): 149 mph
    Braking, 70–0 mph: 184 ft
    Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.81 g

    C/D FUEL ECONOMY:
    Observed: 21 mpg
    75-mph highway driving: 36 mpg
    Highway range: 590 miles

     

     

    2018 Buick Regal Sportback FWD (just sayin)  Mazda continues to underwhelm, all the time, time to stop glorifying their run of the mill

    C/D TEST RESULTS:
    Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
    Zero to 100 mph: 13.8 sec
    Zero to 130 mph: 28.8 sec
    Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 6.1 sec
    Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.9 sec
    Top gear, 50–70 mph: 4.0 sec
    Standing ¼-mile: 14.2 sec @ 101 mph
    Top speed (governor limited): 131 mph
    Braking, 70–0 mph: 162 ft
    Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g

    C/D FUEL ECONOMY:
    Observed: 24 mpg
    75-mph highway driving: 31 mpg
    Highway range: 490 miles

    Edited by regfootball
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    regfootball
    On 10/15/2018 at 2:28 PM, A Horse With No Name said:

    If Chevrolet put the 2.0 into a lower level of Malibu it would be an obvious choice over this...but given the extra power...I think I would take the Mazda over the Malibu.

    Nice looking car and I wish them well with it.

    Chris

    bingo.  But now the new LSY in the XT4, i would love to see if it makes it to the Malibu.  Improved NVH, and maybe if they added some tune to it.  NOW you're talkin.

    20 hours ago, dfelt said:

    ALWAYS RELEVANT!!!

    The biggest missed place in ALL AUTO REVIEWS is to clearly talk about how people sitting in the front will affect those sitting in the back. There is NEVER a perfect front seat sitting and back seat sitting that fits a perfect 4 or 5 adult placement. This is the LIE that the auto industry has not owned up to. You and your coworkers decide to go out to lunch and your the one who offered to drive. You and one coworker are US average size of 5'8" another is 5'6" tall but very large size and the other is 6'2" tall and you drive a Camry. Who sits where and why. 

    IMHO, ALL Auto Reviews should cover sizing and how it fits for the AVERAGE American but also if you have Large size people or tall people or even very short. 

    Just like many other areas in life that people either try to fit everyone into or ignor it totally, the interior space of sizing for a single person is a lie when you will always have a variety of sized people. They should clearly state a 4 adult person space seating in every car or SUV on how people will fit. Fine if 5'8" tall is the standard they want, but then clearly state how much head room, hip room, leg room, etc. is left or if there is not enough.

    We have discussed many times on how tight the compact to mid size 4 door sedan market is and how even when multiple OEMs state the same or near same seat size, one fits more comfy than another.

    The reviews are heavily biased on just the driver and not taking into account passengers.

    I could go on but I hope you get my point.

    The Mazda6 is tighter than Malibu, especially in the back.  The front is comparable but the Mazda6 rear seat is the weak spot.  Just enough tighter that adults won't like it IMO.  One of the reasons besides bad NVH (at least back in 2014 or whatever) I crossed off the Mazda6 pretty quickly.

    12 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Back seats are usually for children or pets.     How many car buyers actually care if large adults fit in the back seat of a car?  It seems like an edge case, not a common use case. The driver space is the most important measurement.    However, I could see back seat space for adult passengers being a concern if you are a taxi, Uber or Lyft driver. 

    I end up in the back seat often enough that it makes a diff to me.. Especially on long trips.

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    Robert Hall
    14 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    bingo.  But now the new LSY in the XT4, i would love to see if it makes it to the Malibu.  Improved NVH, and maybe if they added some tune to it.  NOW you're talkin.

    The Mazda6 is tighter than Malibu, especially in the back.  The front is comparable but the Mazda6 rear seat is the weak spot.  Just enough tighter that adults won't like it IMO.  One of the reasons besides bad NVH (at least back in 2014 or whatever) I crossed off the Mazda6 pretty quickly.

    I end up in the back seat often enough that it makes a diff to me.. Especially on long trips.

    Different use cases for different people, understandable.  I've never ridden in the back seat of my own cars.

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    regfootball
    3 hours ago, dfelt said:

    Missing the Point, easy to build by just having longer auto's. Selling the ATS and CTS L edition from China here in the US as regular auto's would give them room no other luxury automaker has and would make the back room seat debate a moot point. Very simple to do by adding 6 inches of leg room, tall people can slouch then and fit into the coupe roof line on everything that is out there now.

     

    16 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Guess I have still failed as in the past Cadillac always sold tweener cars that were just a bit bigger than the Germans. Then they moved to building cars that compete with the Germans and they have gotten nailed over pretty much the same crap the Germans have in their auto's and on top of this with identical rear car seats we have people complain about Cadillac but it is OK with the Germans.

    So my point is use the US safety version but extend it to be equal in length to what is sold over in China and have a bit bigger auto. Take away the stupid talking points.

    FYI, I have been in the CT6, very nice car, but the rear I cannot fit in without the front seat pulled up and I slouch. Still not big enough for my body. Yes I am the exception to many here.

    EVERY YEAR, when at the auto show, and in the Cadillac section, it is brutally clear one huge reason why Cadillac doesn't make sales.  Nearly everyone bitches about the useless back seat of the ATS, and even people comment on the cramp front quarters of the CTS (although that is more sort of due to console design).  Cadillac used to have the original CTS be a tweener above the 3 series.  The ATS fails in back seat room compared to 3 series and Mercedes, just by a noticeable enough amount to make a difference between usable and not usable.  CTS is in a higher price class so it seems woefully small inside in comparison to perceived value vs sticker.

    Cadillac's heritage calling card, up until the last 10-15 years or so was spaciousness = luxury.  Until they return to providing space expected in each class they will lose sales once people arrive at the test drive and put the car on for size.

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    Robert Hall
    1 minute ago, regfootball said:

     

    Cadillac's heritage calling card, up until the last 10-15 years or so was spaciousness = luxury.  Until they return to providing space expected in each class they will lose sales once people arrive at the test drive and put the car on for size.

    One thing about that DTS my sister had, it had great rear seat space and legroom.  Her STS is good, a bit less  (FWD vs RWD proportions)...but still quite spacious...

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    regfootball
    4 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Different use cases for different people, understandable.  I've never ridden in the back seat of my own cars.

    mid sized sedans often get tested for fit of kid car seats too.  Surprisingly, many of them are tight for getting car seats behind the fronts and having good access through the door.

    One car that is large but deceptively tight in the back, is the Fusion.  Its not wholly uncomfortable, its just not as efficient as one would think considering how large the car is.

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    Robert Hall
    38 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    mid sized sedans often get tested for fit of kid car seats too.  Surprisingly, many of them are tight for getting car seats behind the fronts and having good access through the door.

    One car that is large but deceptively tight in the back, is the Fusion.  Its not wholly uncomfortable, its just not as efficient as one would think considering how large the car is.

    One thing I've noticed with the Fusion and Malibu and other current midsize sedans is how the roof slopes and the rear door opening slopes..seems like getting in and out of the back seat would be awkward for adults..

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    William Maley
    2 hours ago, regfootball said:

    Per Car and Driver

    2018 Mazda6 signature

    C/D TEST RESULTS:
    Zero to 60 mph: 6.4 sec
    Zero to 100 mph: 16.0 sec
    Zero to 130 mph: 33.3 sec
    Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 6.7 sec
    Top gear, 30–50 mph: 3.2 sec
    Top gear, 50–70 mph: 4.2 sec
    Standing ¼-mile: 14.9 sec @ 97 mph
    Top speed (drag limited, mfr’s claim): 149 mph
    Braking, 70–0 mph: 184 ft
    Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.81 g

    C/D FUEL ECONOMY:
    Observed: 21 mpg
    75-mph highway driving: 36 mpg
    Highway range: 590 miles

     

     

    2018 Buick Regal Sportback FWD (just sayin)  Mazda continues to underwhelm, all the time, time to stop glorifying their run of the mill

    C/D TEST RESULTS:
    Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
    Zero to 100 mph: 13.8 sec
    Zero to 130 mph: 28.8 sec
    Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 6.1 sec
    Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.9 sec
    Top gear, 50–70 mph: 4.0 sec
    Standing ¼-mile: 14.2 sec @ 101 mph
    Top speed (governor limited): 131 mph
    Braking, 70–0 mph: 162 ft
    Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g

    C/D FUEL ECONOMY:
    Observed: 24 mpg
    75-mph highway driving: 31 mpg
    Highway range: 490 miles

    Is the review in question? 2018 Buick Regal Sportback FWD

    I'm going to burst some bubbles here. I recently just sat in a Regal Sportback over the weekend at a local auto show (more on that in an upcoming Afterthoughts) and I hate to say it, I was disappointed. Many of the plastics used were somewhat middling and didn't feel as nice as the one found in the Mazda, let alone the recent Hyundai Sonata and even the Toyota Camry XSE. For a car that stickered around $38,000, it made me shake my head. The cars just listed - sticker between $2,000 to $6,000 less.

    Now I'll give the Regal that it has the easier infotainment system to use. I'm quietly hoping that Mazda gets their act together and introduces something modern in the next year.

    Is the Mazda6 the be all, end all midsize sedan? No. There are some areas that would make me hesitate to recommend the 6 like the stiff ride. It does some things quite well that it has earned a place in the sedans I would recommend which includes the Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid and Hyundai Sonata.

    I'm withholding comment on the driving dynamics of the Regal till I can get my hands on one. On paper, it may seem like the better car. But I have a sneaking suspicion that I would still pick the 6. 

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    A Horse With No Name

    Honest question where does the Camry fall short compared to the 6 the Malibu and the Sonata?

    1 hour ago, regfootball said:

    mid sized sedans often get tested for fit of kid car seats too.  Surprisingly, many of them are tight for getting car seats behind the fronts and having good access through the door.

    One car that is large but deceptively tight in the back, is the Fusion.  Its not wholly uncomfortable, its just not as efficient as one would think considering how large the car is.

    I find the Fusion awkward enough that I told the rental car company to stop sending them to me for our school debate trips.

    2 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    One thing about that DTS my sister had, it had great rear seat space and legroom.  Her STS is good, a bit less  (FWD vs RWD proportions)...but still quite spacious...

    DTS was a nice car. I like them.

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    A Horse With No Name
    2 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Different use cases for different people, understandable.  I've never ridden in the back seat of my own cars.

    I ride in the back seats. Part of me would not mind a car with real back seat room.

    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    I don't think I want any more cars in my considerable, serial "collection".  Crossovers, SUVs or pickup trucks are where it's at.

    From the standpoint of vintage cars I feel the same way. If I ever get another old car it will be a truck.

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I told the man that this handwritten paper did not explain any of what I asked to verify and see, so they would need to properly print out or hand write all details in order for me to make a decision. The rep left and was gone for about 10 minutes and then came back with another salesperson who reminded me of a traditional wild west snake oil salesman who tried to use the same paper I was shown and yet tell me I was not able to understand the complexities of leases and should trust him on this awesome monthly cost. When I told him I would not accept that vague random info, he then moved into the terrible game of "What can you afford a month?" Here is where many people either give up and accept or leave as they feel overwhelmed, I on the other hand laughed and told him that I would not play his game. Show me the valid real numbers with a final price on the Lyriq before processing for the Lease monthly amount.  My wife always told me I was a very frustrating person when it came to buying an auto as I would push for facts and have on more than one occasion made salespeople cry when they could not get their way playing their monthly afford game. This is how people get ripped off and taken advantage of. The two folks left and came back with the sales manager who tried again with the paper to spin a different tale. At this point, I said fine, I would consider this as I needed to talk with the wife, and she would need to drive the auto anyway before we would buy.  Leaving the Cadillac dealership, I drove south to Chuck Olson Kia, figured I would see how the EV9 drove again and see what kind of deal I could get. Arriving at the dealership, I saw the EV9 I was interested in on the lot, looked it over and turned around to see if I can get some help and a young man greeted me and said he was with another customer, but would let another salesperson know I was looking at that EV9. Only a few minutes later, the sales rep came out, greeted me and had the keys so he opened up the EV and showed me the SUV.  Here the experience was similar in that we took the EV9 in Ice Green for a drive. As I drove it, I was informed about the various features and how they all worked. An overview that was enjoyable as I drove the near silent EV locally. I did notice that it was not as quiet as the Lyriq, but most would not really notice the difference, everything else on the road was far louder. We returned to the dealership and sat down; I asked the rep for the best price on this EV9 he could give me. He left to talk to his manager. Now I was comparing the price of the Lyriq Sport level 2 to this EV9 AWD Land edition and the MSRP price between the two was within a hundred dollars of each other. The EV9 had a number of features that the Lyriq did not have unless I paid substantially more and go to the top end Sport Level 3. At this point the Kia was winning on features giving it a better value due to the two being priced nearly the same. The sales rep came back to the table with a price that was $5,000 off MSRP. I felt based on internet searching that this was a fair price and felt it was good. I asked him then at this price with my IRA rebate of $7,500 what would a three-year lease with 15,000 miles a year cost me per month. The rep said give him a few minutes to have the manager put this in the system and he would come back with a detailed price for me. The salesperson returned about 10 minutes later with a Deal Sheet for me to review. Here is where the difference became clear between this Kia Dealership and the Cadillac Dealership. The Deal Sheet had all the numbers listed out clearly. Any person could walk through this in full understanding. The lease deal, started off with the Stock number for the EV9, had the MSRP listed, discount, then Selling price of the EV9. This was followed by a blank field for accessories or add on sales items as the sales rep explained. The rebate for $7,500 was clearly listed, blank space for Trade, cash cap reduction, license fee, doc fee ending in a final price of the EV that was then broken down by 36 months @ 15,000 miles a year for a Base monthly rental cost and then the sales tax on the whole deal which was broken down into monthly tax rate added to the monthly lease amount. Residual value at the end of the lease, a residual money factor that is a decimal number used to figure out the monthly lease rate. All in all, a very clear understandable deal and the monthly price for the EV9 was $837 per month compared to $1,200 plus for the Cadillac. I told the salesperson that I would need to talk to my wife when she got home tonight and would give him a call back. As I was getting ready to leave, I realized I had forgotten to ask an important question. Could the front driver and passenger windows be tinted to match the rest of the auto. Due to having had skin cancer, blocking out UV plus just having it darker is what I prefer. The sales rep said he believed so but would have to check with his manager and could call me if I gave him my number later. I left him my cell number and headed home. Sitting at home, I was thinking about the experience at the Cadillac dealership and wondering, can it really be that bad at any other dealership? So, I did a search and found the identical Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership and much farther away at Larson Cadillac of Fife. Off to Bellevue I went. Arriving at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership, I was promptly greeted and professionally questioned on the auto I was interested in. The young man was always polite and more than happy to help me. This dealership is one of the newly built from the ground up dealerships that truly echo's Luxury and what I would expect from a luxury dealership. Due to the knowledge of the salesperson like the other dealership, it started off positive, went out to check and see if the auto their website stated they had on hand was actually there. It was, Identical to the one at Brotherton Cadillac NW in Shoreline Washington. At this point, I gave him the same info I had given the other person to see what the pricing would be. Ten minutes later he returned with a printed sheet of paper, that was better than handwritten. Had a set sale price that was a couple thousand off the MSRP, had a rebate of $1,000 showing a reduced price, document fee, licensing and a theft engraving that he said they do on all autos sold there so nothing I could do about not wanting it. The total at the end showed a lease money factor, term, mileage and residual with a base payment of $1,042 dollars. with no money down.  Now two things I noticed, one was that the IRA rebate was not showing anywhere on the paperwork and the second item was that at least their price was over $200 less than the other dealership. I inquired about the $7,500 rebate and he said he did not know and would go ask. Upon returning he said it was factored into the residual value of the Lyriq when I traded it back in. I pointed out that the rebate does not go into a value of the vehicle but is paid to the dealership and so comes off the price of the auto. Things continued to go downhill from here as I was told by him that I did not understand how leasing worked. His sales manager stopped by, and I pointed this out, same response, I do not understand how leasing works. I informed them that I would need to present this to my wife and discuss it with her. They attempted the pressure response of get her on the phone, we can explain it and you can drive home in your new EV. They were not happy with me and would not let me have the paperwork. When they stepped out to talk, I snapped a quick picture of the printed paperwork. Two Cadillac dealerships, two different lease prices on the identically spec / priced Lyriq Sport 2 and no honest showing of where the rebate would end up at.  Heading home this made me wonder about Cadillac and their EV focus which we have since learned in the news has changed to having ICE and EV through 2030 and beyond. At home, I explained my day of EV shopping to the wife, she was disappointed that Cadillac was not forthcoming with their pricing. She liked the looks of the Lyriq as much as the looks of the Kia EV9. At this point the phone rang, and it was the sales rep for Kia. He informed me that yes, the doors could be tinted and that his sales manager if we were willing to move forward with the deal would throw in the front window tinting. We setup an appointment for Saturday morning to go and test drive the EV9 with the wife to ensure she would be happy driving it. For full details on our EV9 Purchase read this story: Now at this point, I figured I would relax for the evening, but I got another phone call from a sales rep at Larson Cadillac who informed me that the Lyriq I was interested was already sold at their dealership, but he could make me another deal on a like existing Lyriq, different color. I informed him that my wife liked the 800V Lyriq in the Celestial Metallic. The man on the other end of the phone said he could see if they could do a trade to get what we were interested in, but he wanted me to understand that the Lyriq was not a true 800V EV. I was surprised by his comment and asked him why it was not a true 800V EV. I learned and have verified that the only EV GM makes that truly can handle 350 kW fast charging is the Hummers, the Lyriq has an 800V electrical system, but the battery packs are first generation and as such only rated at 400V meaning they have a top charging speed of 150 kW. GM is planning to roll out 800V battery packs starting with the Chevrolet and GMC full size pickups. All other EVs will continue to use the 400V battery packs for now. At this point, I thanked the man for his time and would think on it and get back to him. As a person wanting to be current, this takes me to the Kia EV9 only. I did not say anything to my wife about the tech and hoped she would be happy with how it drove. Luckily that was a success the next day. I have spent half my life on the sales side and in training new sales folks there is a pretty basic 5 step process in sales: 1) Greet the customer inquiring what brought them in today 2) Qualify the person on what they want 3) Trial close to see if they are ready 4) Clarify questions and overcome concerns 5) Close the Sale. To accomplish this basic 5 steps, you first have to fully train the individual in what they are selling. Here Cadillac clearly is not or possibly the dealerships are not wanting to ensure everyone know how to sell an EV. Recap of this whole shopping experience is that Kia is nailing it with a professional sales experience, knowledgeable people on their products and a sales / lease process that is clear hiding nothing from allowing you to commit to buying or leasing a new auto. Cadillac on the other hand has left me with the feeling of snake oil salespersons at both dealerships with vague pricing, vague rebates and me wondering just how much they really want to earn my repeat business as I would love to replace my current Escalade with an Escalade IQ, but at this point, Genesis the luxury brand for Hyundai / Kia will reveal their Full Size GV90 ICE/Hybrid/Electric SUV summer of 2024 and I might just be replacing it with a Genesis. Any questions, ask away.   View full article
    • riviera74
      Random Thoughts Thread

      By riviera74 · Posted

      Rivian? Value? That's hilarious.🤣
    • G. David Felt
      Reader Rides: Our EV Editor Buys a Kia EV9

      By G. David Felt · Posted

      Let me put it this way, The amount of money I saved with the interior having more room inside than my current Escalade and the silent comfort, It is a win to me with not having to deal with any of the ICE maintenance or gas trips. My leasing / buying story should help enlighten you on why leasing an EV is a good thing right now. I am also putting in a Level 2 charger at the house that will be another story on the research, cost, etc. So you can follow up on that story too.
    • ccap41
      Permanent Car Spotters

      By ccap41 · Posted

      I stumbled upon a small meetup this weekend. There's a new custom/restoration shop about two blocks from my home and I was walking to a Casey's to grab a cake donut for my wife (hahaha) and this is right next to the Casey's.  This grey Chevelle was perfect, absolutely perfect. The plate is the name of the shop, Xtreme (restoration, bodywork, modification). I'm sure this is their show piece, and what a piece of work/art it is! I believe the van is theirs as well.  Later that day we ran to Aldi and came across the International Scout. it was far from mint condition, but it was "pretty good" but even cooler to see it just out and about. 

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