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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Quick Drive: 2020 Toyota Tundra TRD Pro CrewMax

      It is old, but still has some tricks.

    The Toyota Tundra holds the title of being the oldest full-size truck, coming in at thirteen years without any sort of redesign. On one hand, this makes the Tundra a very reliable and dependable truck. On the other hand, the Tundra isn’t able to fully compete with the likes GM, Ram, or Ford with their more modern designs and hardware. But there is one exception to this where the Tundra can be a good alternative to the Detroit Three, and it comes in the form of the TRD Pro.

    • Color can do a lot to a vehicle such as making an older model look modern or highlighting some of the polarizing elements of a design. This Army Green paint, which is new on all TRD Pros for 2020 makes the Tundra look younger and a bit more aggressive. 
    • Inside, you can tell that the Tundra is getting up there in age. The design hasn’t changed much and material quality cannot even compare to the likes of GM and Ram’s trucks. But I like the large buttons and knobs for various controls. Not only does it make it easier to find, but it means you can have a set of gloves on and easily control various aspects.
    • One key improvement for 2020 is Apple CarPlay and Android Auto being added to the Tundra’s Entune system, which gives drivers another choice in their infotainment choices.
    • The Crewmax model seen here is huge. Step into the back seat and you might think you entered a limo with an endless amount of head and legroom on offer. I do wish the seats had a little bit more padding.
    • Only one engine is available on the 2020 Tundra; a 5.7L V8 with 381 horsepower and 401 pound-feet of torque. This is teamed with a six-speed automatic and four-wheel drive.
    • This engine provides plenty of thrust and provides an engine burble that you might expect from one of the Detroit three’s V8 trucks. The automatic is very smooth when changing gear and seems to where it needs to be in any situation.
    • The downside to this V8 is fuel economy. The EPA says TRD Pro CrewMax will return 13 City/17 Highway/14 Combined. I saw an average of 14.2 mpg during my week of a 60/40 mix of highway and city driving. Maybe a couple more gears for the automatic could improve this.
    • Toyota has kitted the Tundra TRD Pro with some serious off-road chops; Fox internal bypass dampers for all four corners, TRD springs that increase wheel travel, and a set of Michelin LTX off-road tires. Unfortunately, I didn’t get a chance to try it off-road. But other reviewers who have taken it off the beaten path report the TRD Pro is very capable. 
    • What I can report is the changes to the suspension makes for a surprisingly comfortable ride.
    • This suspension does mean you will experience a fair amount of body roll when cornering, but that is to be expected with a truck like this.
    • My Tundra TRD Pro CrewMax starts at $52,780. With some accessories and destination, the price climbs $55,020.
    • The Tundra is getting long in the tooth as evidenced by the interior and poor fuel economy from the V8 engine. But the TRD Pro helps freshen the Tundra a bit and makes a compelling option for those who plan on spending more time off the beaten path.

    Disclaimer: Toyota Provided the Tundra, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas

    Year: 2020
    Make: Toyota
    Model: Tundra
    Trim: TRD Pro CrewMax
    Engine: 5.7L DOHC 32-Valve i-FORCE V8
    Driveline: Six-Speed Automatic, Four-Wheel Drive
    Horsepower @ RPM: 381 @ 5,600
    Torque @ RPM: 401 @ 3,600
    Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 13/17/14
    Curb Weight: N/A
    Location of Manufacture: San Antonio, TX 
    Base Price: $52,780
    As Tested Price: $55,020 (Includes $1,495.00 Destination Charge)

    Options:
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    Stainless Steel Door Edge Guard - $140.00
    Door Sill Protector - $70.00

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    LOL 14 MPG average?  NOPE.

    Plus it continues to irk me when I see US flags and other patriotic stickers on foreign vehicles.  Should be a white field with a red dot, not our dear old Stars & Stripes on there.

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    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    LOL 14 MPG average?  NOPE.

    Plus it continues to irk me when I see US flags and other patriotic stickers on foreign vehicles.  Should be a white field with a red dot, not our dear old Stars & Stripes on there.

    Well, it is built in San Antonio Texas.  At the same time, I see no reason to actually BUY a Tundra.

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    On 7/22/2020 at 4:01 PM, balthazar said:

    $55K? For a toyoter??

    >>"On one hand, this makes the Tundra a very reliable and dependable truck. "<<
    Does it?

    Yep, it does. That V8 is still old school with none of that annoying DOD tech that seems to fail on the other trucks to save a little fuel. To start/stop tech which is still quite annoying.... or even turbo engines.

    Less stuff to break. 🙂  Still an ugly truck though......

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    On 7/22/2020 at 1:19 PM, ocnblu said:

    LOL 14 MPG average?  NOPE.

    Plus it continues to irk me when I see US flags and other patriotic stickers on foreign vehicles.  Should be a white field with a red dot, not our dear old Stars & Stripes on there.

    It is built in US and I know personally couple veterans that drive them.  It is what they sacrificed earned people right to buy whatever they want (especially if it is built in US) and put any f@cking stickers they want to on their truck. 

    On 7/22/2020 at 4:01 PM, balthazar said:

    $55K? For a toyoter??

    >>"On one hand, this makes the Tundra a very reliable and dependable truck. "<<
    Does it?

    Yes it does.  More reliable than F-150 and Silverado based what I hear from my coworkers that drive trucks.  Old but reliable V8 and electronics that are way less glitchy.  Not necessary better but they are more reliable.

    Edited by ykX
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    1 hour ago, ykX said:

    It is built in US and I know personally couple veterans that drive them.  It is what they sacrificed earned people right to buy whatever they want (especially if it is built in US) and put any f@cking stickers they want to on their truck. 

    Yes it does.  More reliable than F-150 and Silverado based what I hear from my coworkers that drive trucks.  Old but reliable V8 and electronics that are way less glitchy.  Not necessary better but they are more reliable.

    When your dated like a baby boomer, in a baby boomer's eyes it might seem more reliable, but clearly it is stuck in the past. I have seen just as many on tow trucks as I have seen fords or GM. 

    Would be interesting to see the average age of buyers for these trucks.

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    10 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    While some folk may quibble with the definition of 'reliable', I can't ignore all-too-common examples of toyoter engineering/ quality/ reliability  like this

    tac.jpg

    You should find even older pictures to prove your point.  My co-worker Silverado rusted so bad he could not pass inspection.

     

    27 minutes ago, David said:

    When your dated like a baby boomer, in a baby boomer's eyes it might seem more reliable, but clearly it is stuck in the past. I have seen just as many on tow trucks as I have seen fords or GM. 

    Would be interesting to see the average age of buyers for these trucks.

    I am in 40s and my colleagues are in early 50s.

    Few after having Silverado or F-150 with numerous electrical or reliability issues swore next one will be Tundra.  As a matter of fact I have two co-workers, one with 2014 F-150 and another with 2014 Tundra.  F-150 had and still has a lot of electrical issues, stereo doesn't work right, backup camera stops working, windows refuse to go up etc, etc.  Tundra had absolutely no issues at all.

    Edited by ykX
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    3 hours ago, ykX said:

    It is built in US

    Honestly...

    Big PHOQUING deal that its built in the US...

    It REALLY means nothing...

    3 hours ago, ykX said:

    I know personally couple veterans that drive them.  It is what they sacrificed earned people right to buy whatever they want

    Sure!   Americans...Canadians...are FREE to buy what they want.

    So are German and Japanese folk. These people are FREE to buy whatever they want too.

    Oh...please stop with this bullshyte argument insinuating that ONLY Americans have fought  for their freedoms for their people to be free.

    France, Britain, Greece and many many many....many many many....many many other nations and tribes and clans over the hundreds of thousands of years humans have been roaming the phoquing planet have fought oppressions of all  kinds JUST to be free... 

    3 hours ago, ykX said:

    (especially if it is built in US) and put any f@cking stickers they want to on their truck. 

    Yeah but....really though.

    Where is the REAL American pride?

    Germans and Japanese in Germany and Japan ALL buy cars that are OWNED by German and Japanese firms...   These people are TRULY proud to be...   They believe in their engineering.

    I guess anything engineered in America is crap?  

    THAT is what you believe?

    Look at the last 150 years, including 2020, and YOU tell ME with a straight face that America sucks in engineering stuff.   

    Made in America by a foreign company means absolutely NOTHING...

    Toyoter (and evidently that dumb rag of a mag consumer report) has BRAINWASHED you into thinking all kinds of stupid things....)

    3 hours ago, ykX said:

    Yes it does.  More reliable than F-150 and Silverado based what I hear from my coworkers that drive trucks.  Old but reliable V8 and electronics that are way less glitchy.  Not necessary better but they are more reliable.

    Case in point...

    All those frame rusts, all those engine slugs, all those runaway cars...and Consumer Reports, nor yourself...have ANY hatred towards Toyoter, but you loathe GM?

    You ARE free to think what you wanna think and buy what you wanna buy... 

    I aint here to change your mind about NOTHING.  I dont care!

    But...Im letting YOU know...I aint falling for YOUR bullshyte argument...

    And Im calling you out on it...

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    It looks pretty sweet and that's half of what matters in a vehicle. 

    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    While some folk may quibble with the definition of 'reliable', I can't ignore all-too-common examples of toyoter engineering/ quality/ reliability  like this

    tac.jpg

    "common", look how old that truck is. That wasn't made this decade.

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    @oldshurst442 What are you rumbling about? 

    If something means nothing to you it doesn't means it means nothing to other people.  Yes, Toyota is Japanese company, but Tundra is designed and built in US giving jobs to thousands people in US.  On the American Made index Tundra is rated at #16 while F-150 is rated #44, SIlverado is at #77.

    And BTW those frame rusts everyone comes back to all the time were happening 20 years ago.  That argument is long gone.  

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    30 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    Given how old the Tundra is, it still looks good.   Don't see them often here, maybe more common on the West Coast..

    Yup, plenty of the Turda out here. Plenty of the old Toy Pickups with frame issues too.

    image.png

    This is a pic from Pittsburg where they salt so heavily to insure making you have to buy a new auto every 4 to 5 years I guess. :P 

    image.png

    New England talking about how fast the frames rust out due to the salt exposure.

    image.png

    2004 Toyota Tacoma has the frame rust out in 2016. 12 years. I have never seen this on a Ford or GM truck before. But I do get that everything rusts out.

     

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    Those are all old ones, though...and Tacomas, not Tundras.  The thing I see here in NE Ohio is a lot of cab and bed rust out on 10-20 yr old Rams, Fords and GM trucks...frames probably rusty also. 

    Rusty framed Tacomas from 15-20 years ago have no relevance on what they are building now.

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    • No one said how old the picture I posted was.

    • Yes, they rusted out / broke in half / had to be scrapped a decade ago. But it speaks to the Company that such a occurrence could even happen on their watch. That catastrophic structural failure may not mean much to hardcore loyalists (??), but coupled with the sixty million other vehicles recalled in a decade & a half... that paints a pretty damning portrait.

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    9 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    • No one said how old the picture I posted was.

    • Yes, they rusted out / broke in half / had to be scrapped a decade ago. But it speaks to the Company that such a occurrence could even happen on their watch. That catastrophic structural failure may not mean much to hardcore loyalists (??), but coupled with the sixty million other vehicles recalled in a decade & a half... that paints a pretty damning portrait.

    Rusty framed Tacomas from 15-20 years ago have no relevance to what they are building now.

    Just like the ignition recall on old vehicles has no relevance to what GM is building now. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    The warranty campaign covered up to 2012 vehicles. That's 8 years ago, not 20. [How old is the current tundra's frame?]

    No; a single event doesn't necc mean anything RE a current, different product. But a monsoon of problems, deficiencies, engineering cost-cutting and recalls over 20 years speaks loudly to a corporate mindset / SOP. Plenty of choices out there, not worth the risk on a mediocre appliance.

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    5 minutes ago, balthazar said:


    No; a single event doesn't necc mean anything RE a current, different product. But a monsoon of problems, deficiencies, engineering cost-cutting and recalls over 20 years speaks loudly to a corporate mindset / SOP. Plenty of choices out there, not worth the risk on a mediocre appliance.

    Unfortunately, exactly same thing and even more can be said about GM and Ford products.  

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    26 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    That's what it looked like to me. 

    fOrEiGn tRuCk bAd

    Sales of Tundras and Tacomas are also SAD compared to the domestics.  Remember that too.

    BTW: Do modern Tacomas have that frame damage issue that 10-20 year old ones do?

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      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 22/31/25
      Curb Weight: 3,649 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Georgetown, KY
      Base Price: $44,635
      As Tested Price: $53,950 (Includes $1,025.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Navigation/Mark Levinson Audio Package - $2,900.00
      Triple Beam LED Headlights - $1,515.00
      Blind Spot Monitor w/Rear Cross Traffic Alert and Intuitive Parking Assist w/Auto Braking - $1,065.00
      Adaptive Variable Suspension - $750.00
      Hands-Free Power Open/Close Trunk - $550.00
      10.2-inch Head-Up Display - $500.00
      Illuminated Door Sill - $400.00
      Power Rear Sunshade - $210.00
      F Sport Heated Leather Steering Wheel with Windshield Wiper Deicer and Fast Response Interior Heater - $180.00
      Door Edge Guard - $145.00
      Wireless Charger - $75.00

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      For your consideration: Two unlikely sport sedans.
      The Toyota Camry TRD and Lexus ES 350 F-Sport may not seem like credible sport sedans at first glance. They may seem like tarted-up sedans in terms of looks, but nothing else. However, after spending a week in each one, I can say both are the real deal.
      Camry TRD
      This Camry is in your face about its sporting potential. It comes with a front splitter, side skirts, a distinct rear spoiler, and 19-inch TRD wheels with a matte black finish. I found it to be a bit much and wished Toyota offered a package that got you the goodies for the suspension and exhaust system while keeping the looks of a standard Camry. A sleeper of sorts. TRD models come with small touches inside such as red seatbelts, red stitching on the seats and dash; leather-wrapped steering wheel, and TRD floor mats. Otherwise, it is your standard Camry interior. Power comes from a 3.5L V6 with 301 horsepower and 267 pound-feet of torque. Yes, that's the same output as the Camry XLE V6 I drove earlier. But what TRD has done is added a new exhaust system that provides a nice growl. I'll admit I was surprised when I blipped the throttle at a stoplight and heard what came out. This is an engine you have to work slightly to get into its sweet spot of power - around the mid-range on the rpm band. But once you do, the engine delivers a smooth punch of power. I do wish the six-speed automatic wouldn't try to go into the highest gear ASAP to maximize fuel economy. Where TRD worked their magic is with the suspension. The car is lower than a standard Camry, along with being stiffer thanks to thicker underbody braces, stabilizer bars, and shocks. On a winding road, the Camry TRD feels much more athletic than the standard Camry with minimal body and a set of summer tires providing excellent grip. The only downside is the steering which needs a bit more weight. Ride quality is a bit more firm than a standard Camry, but the suspension does a decent job of minimizing the bumps and impacts. To top it all off, Toyota has priced the Camry TRD at a surprising point. With the two-tone paint on my tester, it comes at $32,920 - making this the cheapest way to get a V6 in a Camry. The added bonus is that the TRD is also the most fun you can have in Camry.
      ES 350 F-Sport
      Lexus takes a more sedate approach with the ES F-Sport with a mesh grille insert, new wheels, and a small lip spoiler. I think if they went overboard with the sporty touches, it would ruin the elegance of the standard ES design. I will say the grey on my tester makes the F-Sport kind of look somewhat bland. Going with either the blue or red helps it stand out. Under the hood is the same 3.5L V6 found in other ES 350s, producing 301 hp and 267 lb-ft. The behavior is similar to what I found in the Camry, needing to work it before a smooth rush of power comes on. The transmission doesn't have the same programming as the Camry's with trying to maximize fuel economy. It is ready to downshift at a moment's notice. I've praised the standard ES for making a real leap forward in handling as there is less body motion on windy roads when compared to the previous model. The F-Sport takes that a step further with a revised suspension and optional adaptive dampers - which my car had. Slip the drive mode into Sport+ and ES transforms into something that you can pilot with confidence on a twisty stretch of road. The dampers firm up to make body roll non-existent, and the steering feels more weighty when turning. When you decide to stop having fun and turn the drive knob to either normal or comfort, the F-Sport transforms a standard ES with a smooth and quiet ride. The price? Base is $44,635 and this fully-loaded tester comes in at $53,950 with destination. A bit hard to swallow when you consider that the Avalon TRD offers similar performance for slightly less money. But not everyone wants a sedan that screams "look at me", and thats where the ES 350 F-Sport shines. It may be sporty, but it keeps quiet about its intentions. Disclaimer: Toyota and Lexus Provided the vehicles, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Camry
      Trim: TRD
      Engine: 3.5L DOHC 24-Valve VVT-iW V6
      Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, Front-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 301 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 267 @ 4,700
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 22/31/25
      Curb Weight: 3,572 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Georgetown, KY
      Base Price: $31,040
      As Tested Price: $32,920 (Includes $995.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Two-Tone Midnight Black Metallic Roof and Rear Spoiler - $500.00
      Special Color - $425.00
       
      Year: 2020
      Make: Lexus
      Model: ES 350
      Trim: F-Sport
      Engine: 3.5 DOHC 24-Valve VVT-iW V6
      Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, Front-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 302 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 267 @ 4,700
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 22/31/25
      Curb Weight: 3,649 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Georgetown, KY
      Base Price: $44,635
      As Tested Price: $53,950 (Includes $1,025.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Navigation/Mark Levinson Audio Package - $2,900.00
      Triple Beam LED Headlights - $1,515.00
      Blind Spot Monitor w/Rear Cross Traffic Alert and Intuitive Parking Assist w/Auto Braking - $1,065.00
      Adaptive Variable Suspension - $750.00
      Hands-Free Power Open/Close Trunk - $550.00
      10.2-inch Head-Up Display - $500.00
      Illuminated Door Sill - $400.00
      Power Rear Sunshade - $210.00
      F Sport Heated Leather Steering Wheel with Windshield Wiper Deicer and Fast Response Interior Heater - $180.00
      Door Edge Guard - $145.00
      Wireless Charger - $75.00
    • By William Maley
      There are some cars I will not turn down the opportunity to spend time with again. A prime example is the Mazda MX-5 Miata, a car that brings a smile to my face. This past fall, I had a chance to spend some time in a soft-top version and to figure out whether I would have this or the RF.
      What has changed since our last visit with Miata? Only a few things such as the addition of Mazda's i-Activsense suite of active safety features (automatic emergency braking, blind-spot monitoring, and lane-departure warning) as standard; and Apple CarPlay and Android Auto for the Club and Grand Touring models. I find myself drawn more to the standard Miata than RF because it looks a bit neater. The hardtop makes the Miata look somewhat bulky.  The 17-inch wheels finished in dark silver help set the car off. The addition of Apple CarPlay and Android Auto makes using the MazdaConnect infotainment system a bit more bearable to use. I found myself using CarPlay more due to its easier interface layout and brighter graphics. Power comes from a 2.0L Skyactiv-G inline-four with 181 horsepower and 151 pound-feet of torque. This is paired with a six-speed manual, while an automatic is optional. As I noted in my review of the RF, the new 2.0 makes a dramatic difference to the Miata's performance. Leaving a stop, the engine freely revs and delivers a smooth rush of power. I think this version is slightly faster than the RF, mostly due to it not having the foldable hardtop. The six-speed manual is still one of the sweetest transmissions I have used. It feels smooth and precise when running through the gears. Handling is still one of the Miata's strong points as it eagerly changes direction and shows little body roll. Steering is sharp and provides the right amount of weight when driven hard. Ride quality is slightly better than the RF I drove last year due to the Grand Touring not having as stiff as a suspension setup. Yes, you will still feel several bumps and imperfections. But not at the rate as you'll experience in the Club. The Miata is one of those few cars I find myself still being impressed with every time I get the chance to drive one. It offers a level of driving fun that very few models can match, along with a price tag that won’t break the bank. If you were to ask which Miata I would choose, it would be the soft top. Disclaimer: Mazda Provided the MX-5 Miata, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2020
      Make: Mazda
      Model: MX-5 Miata
      Trim: Grand Touring
      Engine: 2.0L Skyactiv-G DOHC Four-Cylinder
      Driveline: Six-Speed Manual, Rear-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 181 @ 7,000
      Torque @ RPM: 151 @ 4,000
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 26/34/29
      Curb Weight: 2,341 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Hiroshima, Japan
      Base Price: $31,670
      As Tested Price: $32,790 (Includes $920.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Grey Cloth Roof - $200.00

      View full article
  • Posts

    • I know the SLS had some beginnings when they were merged.  But Daimler never told Dodge they couldn’t build a new Viper, Daimler walked with all those other platforms, they could have spent their own money on a new Viper.  They could make a Viper now.  You say they make all this profit yet haven’t put out a new vehicle that isn’t a Jeep in like 5 years. They were probably  making money in the 90s I assume.  Also Daimler had a dumb CEO then who was fired shortly after that merger.  
    • The Daimler-Chrysler' story is an interesting one, primarily colored by the oh-so-typical fudging of numbers on Daimler's part. They're ravenously money-hungry, and will do whatever it takes to make a buck. It's documented how Daimler bled Chrysler dry, and they never "gave" anything to Chrysler, they mandated and then forced Chrysler to pay. It got so petty that Daimler back-charged all international calls to Auburn Hills. 
    • https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-car-owners-switching-gas-charging-a-hassle-study-2021-4 1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, research shows Roughly one in five plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) owners switched back to owning gas-powered cars, in large part because charging the batteries was a pain in the… trunk, the researchers found.  Of those who switched, over 70% lacked access to Level 2 charging at home, and slightly fewer than that lacked Level 2 connections at their workplace. "If you don't have a Level 2, it's almost impossible," said Tynan, who has tested a wide range of makes and models of PEVs over the years for his research. Even with the faster charging, a Chevy Bolt he tested still needed nearly six hours to top its range back up to 300 miles from nearly empty — something that takes him just minutes at the pump with his family SUV. Public charging stations may look like the electric version of the gas station, but nearly two-thirds of PEV drivers in the survey said they didn't use them. Exactly why they didn't use the public stalls was not specified. EVs have come a long way in recent years in terms of range, safety, comfort, and tech features, but Hardman and Tal note that very little has changed in terms of how they are recharged. "It should not be assumed that once a consumer purchases a PEV they will continue owning one," Hardman and Tal wrote. "What is clear is that this could slow PEV market growth and make reaching 100% PEV sales more difficult."  
    • If Chrysler was so unprofitable, why did Daimler buy them?
    • The Cybertruck is not exactly THE definition of what a pick-up truck is. If the Cybertruck goes into production as is or even it ever goes into production... The Cybertruck is a toy.  Its a fantasy vehicle. Its a concept car made into production.  Its a lifestyle toy meant to tell your green EV loving folk what you got.  But ONLY to the green ev loving folk that are rabid Tesla fans. Because GM has also entered that realm of a fantasy, recreational toy meant to compare how big the green EV d1ck is with save the planet pricks.... And the thing is...GM has already successfully marketed THAT huge penis contest 20 years ago   TWICE    And it seems the Hummer EV is gonna be a hit of Tesla proportions as well... The Ford F150 EV and the GM EV pick-up truck twins will show case what an EV pick-up truck could and should be.   The Cybertruck is nothing but showmanship.  And if that is the best of what Tesla could do...it has already lost...   The Roadster 2.0  should have been out already...selling to folk that are buying the CURRENT ICE C8 Corvette... But the longer Elon is stalling it, the more time Chevy has got to perfect and out perform the Tesla Roadster 10 fold with the EV Stingray and the 1000 HP full on tri motor EV C8 Zora...   Like I said... Elon has FAILED to take Tesla on to the next level.  He ALLOWED his competition to get close to him and even surpass him... Instead of getting the Roadster out when the ICE C8 came out and embarrass Chevrolet with its dinosaur ICE sports car, Musk allowed Chevy to showcase that ICE is NOT dead, ICE is still very fast, affordable.  Musk allowed GM and Chevy to gain MORE fans for the Vette, and Musk allowed Chevy engineers to tell the world that if you think this BASE ICE Corvette is fast...wait until the EV Vette hits the showroom.  IT WILL BE FASTER AND AFFORDABLE TOO!!! While everyone was waiting for the Roadster 2.0 because we thought that was fast,   Musk allowed THAT momentum to slip through his fingers and now the EV C8 Corvette is the one we are eagerly awaiting for...        
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