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Spy Pictures Josh Posted Last Night

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Last night there was a spy pic with what appeared to be a new CTS rear-end. What has happened to that thread?

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I was wondering the same thing, it was here a while ago. I remember looking at it before lunch, then nothing.?.

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Guest Josh
I removed it on my own. I have no intents on pissing the General off relating to that, or any other image we've received. We won't be running with the story as it draws a real fine line on copyright laws, etc.

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I removed it on my own. I have no intents on pissing the General off relating to that, or any other image we've received. We won't be running with the story as it draws a real fine line on copyright laws, etc.

[post="21507"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Where the heck are these pics coming from--first the Ion and then the CTS?

I understand if you can't answer, but still....I am curious...

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So then the pictures that where found aren't going to be shown? <_< That just makes me want to :puke:

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Good question? Just doesn't make sense to take one off and leave another, with more info albeit! Either way it was a killer photo and the guessing game was good. Props to whom ever found it, great research skills! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

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Damn. I thought you had legally found these pictures? If they were on the net already, is there anything illegal of showing them?

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Understandable, but it would be excellent if it could be confirmed that there are spy pictures of the next gen. CTS floating around online.

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I'm not sure what GM could do, but it would be pretty bad if they did try to do something to the site because of the pic. I think it's best if it's not posted now.

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Well Holy Mackerel. I was hoping this would be a regular feature until all the pics found were posted.

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Guest Josh
The pictures were found legally, without malice. However I don't feel it is right to release the images. There comes a time when you have to realize trading hits for the future of General Motors is on the line. Vehicles like the next CTS which will reap the benefits the company needs them to do. Furthermore, could they take legal action? Possibly. I'm no attorney, however I've decided (with the help of others) not to release those images due to the reasions mentioned above, as well as my own personal reasons. Hope everybody understands.

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Well, instead of showing us the picture can you give your opinion of what you've seen? Is this a substantial update or is it more of a refresh? Edited by Cadillacfan85

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Guest Josh
Oh, it's killer that's for sure. Lutz improved heavily on the current model, something I thought couldn't be done. The media that wrote about it and gave its praise were 100% correct. It will steal the market.

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When you posted the teaser picture last night, I almost crapped my pants I was so excited. I own a 2003 CTS and love it like a child. I think it looks and handles amazing now and can't even imagine how great it will be when they update it. I think I died a little inside when you chose not to post the pictures. I've been a lurker on this site for years, but this is the first time I felt strongly enough to post something. Part of me agrees with not wanting to spoil GM's hard work but a bigger part would give almost anything to see pictures of what will surely be a great (and hopefully my next) car.

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thanks for the info.. on the mystery picture. AT least we know SOme has seen the NExt Gen CTS and they like it. :) Is the interior improved???

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Probably not since they might accidently end up online. I'm not singling you out but anyone here myself included have the potential of posting the pics on a different website.

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I'm curious as to where the picture was found. I have been searching the net and haven't even found the teaser picture. Any ideas? CarSpyShots doesn't have it...

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I could not find the picture either. I looked for about 2 hours. It could have been a picture GM put up then Quickly took down.

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Guest Josh

Probably not since they might accidently end up online.  I'm not singling you out but anyone here myself included have the potential of posting the pics on a different website.

[post="22019"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I highly suggest that does not happen. http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

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I promise I wouldn't... You know where I live, what I drive, and a hell of alot more about me, if I ever do... So... Please? Pretty please with... uh.. Kid Rock and Solstices on top? :lol: :D :P Edited by blackviper8891

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Guest Josh

Understandable, but it would be excellent if it could be confirmed that there are spy pictures of the next gen. CTS floating around online.

[post="21580"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

This post hasn't been moved from the Cadillac forum yet has it?

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I knew from the hard line on the rear bumper that it was a CTS...I've seen some concept drawings of what the next CTS will look like. Plans for GM are to improve the CTS and STS suspension and frame and pass it down to Saturn. At least from what I read. The new CTS should be a doozy, and if they can cram a V-8 in it (5.3 maybe? 5.7?) it'd sell like pancakes and shut Chrysler up about their 300. Plus the new Avalon seems to be having sex with every magazine editor from here to China so the new CTS should be "just better" it should be flat out fantastic. The 4 door market has gotten very tough in that segment...

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Josh, please, this is killing me. I've checked the site every few hours the past two days to see if you would change your mind about posting the cts pictures. while i realize your concern about them hurting gm i don't see how that could possibly happen. pictures of the outside skin and early interior pictures are not going to affect the future products of other companies that will compete with it, no matter how amazing it is. by releasing the pictures all that happens is you get a whole bunch of people really excited and start building more early buzz to go along with the media that have already seen it. Cheersandgears also gets to take credit for finding them instead of some other site becuase if these pictures are legal and in the public domain, chances are somebody else will find them eventually. You already posted the ion pictures and gm hasn't complained and i really doubt that the car will be a collasal failure becuase of the pictures either. Please, please, please show us the cts!!!

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one thing i know, even if tens of thousands of internet enthusiasts get thier hands on these pictures, and then even if Car and Driver printed them, less than 1% of the general public would have any clue like they wouldn't have a clue if a meteor blasted in the astmosphere of the sun. Besides, C&D would likely face reprucussions since they truly are a mass publication, whereas at most maybe 10,000 people would see them here. A sizeable proportion, but miniscule nonetheless compared to the general population. my view.....defend GM and build customer following for them....releasing the pictures here would do nothing but create excitement for GM in general. ;) jmo........

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How lame...tease us and then take everything away. Show off a lamer car like the New Saturn Evoke and nothing else...I don't know about the rest of U people,but I'm PISSED!!!!! Edited by Casket Demon

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Guest Josh
Pay $100 for a web-site such as C&G every month and maybe, just maybe you will get to see the information/talk to the people. Also, the pictures were sealed up by the General shortly before our ION debut. They found the hole and closed it. The only way the pictures will get out is if people spread them, which if that happens will not be from me. I don't have the time, nor money to fight the worlds largest automaker in court. Do you?

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Well, instead of showing us the picture can you give your opinion of what you've seen?  Is this a substantial update or is it more of a refresh?

[post="21745"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



It's a beautiful car plain and simple.

Probably, IMO, the most striking sedan to come out of GM since the 50's or 60's

As impressive if not more impressive than the Solstice, Sky and Tahoe. (The three most impressive "new" GM launches)

Forget everything you know about Lexus and BMW. http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif B)

Plus the new Avalon seems to be having sex with every magazine editor from here to China


LOL..

Toyota is their favorite ass to kiss.

Except in China.. Their media is actually intelligent and SHUNS the product of a country and society that cost them thousands of lives. (A stark contrast to American media)

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Josh, please, this is killing me.  I've checked the site every few hours the past two days to see if you would change your mind about posting the cts pictures.

while i realize your concern about them hurting gm i don't see how that could possibly happen.  pictures of the outside skin and early interior pictures are not going to affect the future products of other companies that will compete with it, no matter how amazing it is.

by releasing the pictures all that happens is you get a whole bunch of people really excited and start building more early buzz to go along with the media that have already seen it.  Cheersandgears also gets to take credit for finding them instead of some other site becuase if these pictures are legal and in the public domain, chances are somebody else will find them eventually.

You already posted the ion pictures and gm hasn't complained and i really doubt that the car will be a collasal failure becuase of the pictures either.  Please, please, please show us the cts!!!

[post="22345"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Yes, but the ION photo is CGI, the CTS photo is not.

I applaud Josh for not posting it (Eventhough it kills me to know that we'll probably lose the "numbers" to some other site who finds it and blows the cover while claiming an "exclusive")

You won't be disappointed though and isn't the CTS supposed to be shown at Detroit this years anyway?

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Except in China.. Their media is actually intelligent and SHUNS the product of a country and society that cost them thousands of lives. (A stark contrast to American media)

[post="22510"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You mean their government?

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.....
Probably, IMO, the most striking sedan to come out of GM since the 50's or 60's

As impressive if not more impressive than the Solstice, Sky and Tahoe. (The three most impressive "new" GM launches)
....

[post="22510"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Um, wow. :blink: Those are some pretty big statements. Can't wait 'till we can see some photos of this!

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You mean their government?

[post="22513"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


One in the same in communism.

Um, wow.  Those are some pretty big statements. Can't wait 'till we can see some photos of this!


Keep in mind, this is all opinion.

I was very impressed though.

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I'd like to wait & see it in Detroit. Thanks for holding it back Josh.

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Here is an idea.. that will make Both GM and C&G members happy. Get someone to do a sketch of the Next CTS. Or you could just blackmail GM... get them to Pay YOU tons of money to hold onto the CTS photos and not let it out... Of course this is totaly WRONG! But its a thought... Either way... don't take my sugesstions too seriously. :blink: I just want to see the next CTS> :)

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AH-HA do you mean that the CTS wont be at any auto shows this uear of that it jus wont be at the Detroit auto show. I really hope its at an auto show this year, the NYIAS would be convienent as I am 20 minutes away.

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Someone here with the alias "evok" (another alleged insider) says:

"SOP is late 4th quarter 06."

More from "evok" here:

"Nope the CTS is nothing like the Sixteen. If you like the current car you are going to love the next generation model. The car still has the edgy look and instantly recognizable as a CTS but it is a lot smoother and flows better without that melted A&S look of the STS. The stance is also more aggessive. The car appears to lean forward where the Lexus GS leans backward. And the interior is unlike anything you would expect from the General. It will look like no other Cadillac interior on the market now. All I can say is, when it is released this will be the best Cadillac to date since the A&S make over. The interior is awesome."

Hooray, my first post. I previously posted to the old C&G under the name "2001Regal" before I chose my black '05 CTS over a LaCrosse.

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There are a few people on C&G that I believe just about anything they say. Evok and Ah-Ha are a few of them. I have no idea who they work for but they know what they are talking about.

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Someone here with the alias "evok" (another alleged insider) says:

"SOP is late 4th quarter 06."

More from "evok" here:

"Nope the CTS is nothing like the Sixteen. If you like the current car you are going to love the next generation model. The car still has the edgy look and instantly recognizable as a CTS but it is a lot smoother and flows better without that melted A&S look of the STS. The stance is also more aggessive. The car appears to lean forward where the Lexus GS leans backward. And the interior is unlike anything you would expect from the General. It will look like no other Cadillac interior on the market now. All I can say is, when it is released this will be the best Cadillac to date since the A&S make over. The interior is awesome."

Hooray, my first post.  I previously posted to the old C&G under the name "2001Regal" before I chose my black '05 CTS over a LaCrosse.

[post="22856"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Timing has since changed from last I looked into it. AH-HA is correct. Edited by evok

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Timing has since changed from last I looked into it.  AH-HA is correct.

[post="23082"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


That's TERRIBLE news.

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What so terrible about it. The current CTS is still a looker and the new one should address all the problems that are present. Though, I wonder what the next G35 will look like? That's going to be the real threat.

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The CTS is well behind the new 330i and IS350 and they're going to keep selling it for another two freakin' years. I am obligated to make the glaringly obvious statement that they really need to get it out sooner.

On the other hand, I'd rather have them take an extra year to get it right. Maybe they saw the new benchmark set by the competition and decided to aim higher. Hope it's worth the wait. Guess the timing works out better for trading in my '05 CTS this way. I am planning to wait until the new one has been out a year before considering an upgrade.

Still waiting eagerly for some drawings or spy shots of the new look...

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The CTS replacement is still on a 5 year product cycle + or - a few months. You should not get your panties in a tither because of some info that I posted since I last looked into the issue has changed. You have to remember the current GMX 320 is only going into its 4th full year in production after the close of the year. Yes, the info I posted was wrong and has changed, but it is not off by years, or a year. It is not off enought to even worry about the program or its status.

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one year difference is not significant? I thought the CTS would be in production by the end of next year--Cadillac's product line, and GM's product line in general, needs all the shots in the arm they can get, so they can continue to make dramatic shifts onto shopping lists. The current CTS needs an interior/exterior revamp like Cadillac needs coupes/convertibles/S-class competitor----to build image.

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I agree Cadillac needs more variants and the CTS needs some improvements (mainly the interior). :huh: BUT, we need to be patient with GM. This is the first round of development of RWD cars that compete with the Germans and Japanese. Give it 10 years of Cadillac building upon “what works” and dumping “what does not”; then Cadillac will have truly world class cars. Things don’t happen over night and the Germans and Japanese have been at it for a lot longer. I concede that Cadillac has been around for more years.. but we all remember what Cadillac was like before “A&S” Front wheel drive and land yachts. Now we have 400hp RWD sport sedans. Cadillac has made great strides in the last 5 years and in 10 more years Cadillac will be amazing. :rolleyes: B)

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Word on the street says that the CTS interior could match anything from Japan or Germany in the 40k segment. Remember, CTS is currently in the 30k segment.

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The CTS is well behind the new 330i and IS350 and they're going to keep selling it for another two freakin' years. I am obligated to make the glaringly obvious statement that they really need to get it out sooner.

[post="23117"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I'm obligated to point out that they are still selling every CTS they build. The CTS may have come in behind the 330i in the latest C&D article, but at least it didn't give them problems, including ABS failure, three freakin times. It still has the looks, it still has the moves and it still beats the BMW dollar for dollar.

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that doesn't refute the fact that the cts' performance is behind the is and 3-series; and in order to keep those precious sales we should try to make our car best in class so MORE people would consider it. The CTS is a good looking car, but park it next to the 3-series and if you can't tell which car is more modern then you're blind. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with owning a CTS or that it's a bad choice, simply that there are more intriguing choices in this tough segment of the marketplace. I also don't think delaying this car one year would cause a huge sales defficiency [and it might even extend the almost inevitable sales slide of the STS once the newer CTS comes]; but the benefit of releasing a world-beater car is that your lineup has a world-beating car, and everyday and every person who sees that car counts towards erasing all those ill will perceptions towards CAddy.

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that doesn't refute the fact that the cts' performance is behind the is and 3-series; and in order to keep those precious sales we should try to make our car best in class so MORE people would consider it. The CTS is a good looking car, but park it next to the 3-series and if you can't tell which car is more modern then you're blind. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with owning a CTS or that it's a bad choice, simply that there are more intriguing choices in this tough segment of the marketplace. I also don't think delaying this car one year would cause a huge sales defficiency [and it might even extend the almost inevitable sales slide of the STS once the newer CTS comes]; but the benefit of releasing a world-beater car is that your lineup has a world-beating car, and everyday and every person who sees that car counts towards erasing all those ill will perceptions towards CAddy.

[post="23252"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



The program has not been delayed. Timing just has been firmed up since I looked into the issue. The SOP is not off by much from what I originally stated. Edited by evok

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that doesn't refute the fact that the cts' performance is behind the is and 3-series; and in order to keep those precious sales we should try to make our car best in class so MORE people would consider it. The CTS is a good looking car, but park it next to the 3-series and if you can't tell which car is more modern then you're blind. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with owning a CTS or that it's a bad choice, simply that there are more intriguing choices in this tough segment of the marketplace. I also don't think delaying this car one year would cause a huge sales defficiency [and it might even extend the almost inevitable sales slide of the STS once the newer CTS comes]; but the benefit of releasing a world-beater car is that your lineup has a world-beating car, and everyday and every person who sees that car counts towards erasing all those ill will perceptions towards CAddy.

[post="23252"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I don't agree that the 330i looks way more modern then a CTS. To my eyes, the 330 is just a warmed over version of the previous generation with just a dash <thankfully> of Bangle. There is nothing ground breaking at all about it, it's about as much revolution as the 1998 E-class v. 2005 E-class.

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The CTS replacement is still on a 5 year product cycle + or - a few months.  You should not get your panties in a tither because of some info that I posted since I last looked into the issue has changed.  You have to remember the current GMX 320 is only going into its 4th full year in production after the close of the year.  Yes, the info I posted was wrong and has changed, but it is not off by years, or a year.  It is not off enought to even worry about the program or its status.

[post="23165"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



The CTS debuted Jan 2002 as a 2003. But in reality it was only 4 months late to the 2002 debuts, which were Fall 2001. To me that says 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006. Plus since AH-HA said to look for it at NAIAS 2007, says that it will be a 2008 model, meaing 2007 is a production year for current model, which is 6 years.

So, my questions:

1. When and where would we expect an introduction of the new car?
2. When do we expect it to be available for customer delivery? Edited by 97regalGS

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No it's not.  No concepts either, just production vehicles.

[post="22797"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



WOW!

So when are the concepts coming?

GMT900 will be the main attraction I guess? (The Escalade and the trucks)

That's TERRIBLE news.


NO KIDDING! Geez, a YEAR... The current CTS will be way outdated by then.

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I'm obligated to point out that they are still selling every CTS they build. The CTS may have come in behind the 330i in the latest C&D article, but at least it didn't give them problems, including ABS failure, three freakin times. It still has the looks, it still has the moves and it still beats the BMW dollar for dollar.

[post="23229"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



Even after all that the 330i beat it?????

Talk about a bias.

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Even after all that the 330i beat it?????

Talk about a bias.

[post="23335"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


The 330i at first gave them trouble with the push button start. Then the ABS light came on when doing braking tests. They spun the BMW at 70mph due to ABS failure <there's your legendary BMW stability> and after that the Airbag light came on.

Now I'm not saying the CTS should have been first, but the BMW certainly should not have been. Most likely I would have put the order IS, G35/CTS <close one way or the other>, BMW, Volvo, Saab.

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that was a fluke. how can you be objective and not recognize that sometimes carmakers will have flukes, even GM? what about all those recalls we keep hearing about everywhere, should i have a heart attack everytime my car get's recalled to replace a seat belt warning sensor? It's just a fluke, happens all the time. Judge the car for what it is. IF the 3 were that unreliable you think it'd be the best selling luxury car in America [depending on your view of luxury]. the new 3-series is simply the best small sport sedan yet, and they will keep getting better with every generation, GM has to catch up.

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that was a fluke. how can you be objective and not recognize that sometimes carmakers will have flukes, even GM?

[post="23346"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Because BMW already is not known for it's reliability. It's not a Kia but it's not Lexus, Buick or Cadillac either.


IF the 3 were that unreliable you think it'd be the best selling luxury car in America [depending on your view of luxury]. the new 3-series is simply the best small sport sedan yet, and they will keep getting better with every generation, GM has to catch up.


Two points: The 3-series is not a luxury car, it is a sport sedan in the same way the Altima is a sport sedan. The 3-series is a small sport sedan while the CTS is a mid-sized sport sedan. Two different classes, yet the larger, heavier CTS still keeps up with it's smaller competition.

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Keeps up how? In 0-60 times? Nope. In slalom numbers? Again, not if your comparing it to the 3-series. In mpg? Nope. In skidpad figures? What's my point? I merely am trying to say to stop infactualizing and remain objective. The CTS does not "keep up" with the 3-series; but it wasn't designed to. It is a car that offers more. How much more is up to your personal opinion, and how it measures up to the competition also comes down to personal prefence. Amongst luxury brands, the 3-series is the best selling car. Pay attention to that wording. I do know what the 3 is, and I know what it's purpose is. The Altima is no more a sport sedan than the Impala is, it's just a FWD sedan with nice handling and a solid suspension. The 3 is the epitome of sport sedan.

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As an owner of a CTS and having driven the E46 3 Series, I have a right to say that the BMW as a driving machine is more enganging. The BMW is the better driver's car overall. The CTS with the 3.6 and sport suspension does come very very close though. Besides being a Cadillac fan, the reason I drive the CTS over a BMW is one reason. Exterior styling. It is cool and it's different. It appeals to me. That is not to say it is the better of the two cars. The BMW overall is a better car not factoring in price and size and many of the issues with the CTS the magazines bring up are accurate. And the interior of the CTS is not worthy of a Pontiac much less a Cadillac. But you know what, I am happy with the car and it has not been back into the shop once. But that still does not mean the CTS is the better of the two cars objectively speaking. I hope that close this debate. Edited by evok

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Oldsmoboi, I hate to say it, but your bias toward GM is making your posts less and less relevant with time. Comparing the 3-Series to an Altima is downright ludicruous. I'm aware of how much you love GM and your CTS, but enough truly is enough.

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Oldsmoboi,

I hate to say it, but your bias toward GM is making your posts less and less relevant with time.  Comparing the 3-Series to an Altima is downright ludicruous.  I'm aware of how much you love GM and your CTS, but enough truly is enough.

[post="23422"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:metal: :metal: :metal:

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And the interior of the CTS is not worthy of a Pontiac much less a Cadillac.

[post="23389"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Best line ever. It truly is not worthy of where Pontiac should be.

Respectfully evok, thank you for your objective analysis of your car. Let this be something for everyone here on this site to chew on. Even though we may have our own personal preferance, recognize the need to be objective, always. Don't kid yourself. Don't lie to yourself. You'll end up alienating half the crowd.

Styling may sway us towards GM [I gotta tell you, if I owned the CTS, preferably V, I would be one damn proud owner, because it is a badass looking car, and has so much design potential----A&S in general has tremendous potential as seen on concepts already]. Loyalty to reliable products may sway towards GM. Livelihood may sway us towards GM. Environment may sway us towards GM. But, please, don't lie to yourself, don't make yourself into a blind cheerleader [some of you are in my opinion], because it's helping no one. And those fans of Toyota, of Honda, of BMW, that have made the choice to go elsewhere because they were free of loyalty ties and perhaps thought the better car was elsewhere, you are turning them away from GM [and GM is too, by not making their cars better] by not being objective and realizing the beauty of CHOICE.

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The CTS debuted Jan 2002 as a 2003.  But in reality it was only 4 months late to the 2002 debuts, which were Fall 2001.  To me that says 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006.  Plus since AH-HA said to look for it at NAIAS 2007, says that it will be a 2008 model, meaing 2007 is a production year for current model, which is 6 years.

So, my questions:

1. When and where would we expect an introduction of the new car?
2. When do we expect it to be available for customer delivery?

[post="23294"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Back to this, Ah-ha did say expect it at NAIAS '07. That is a long way away. That is not just somewhat later than what we originally thought. I'm not saying I'm mad at the information, I'm MAD that GM can't seem to get some good cars out already. I like the fact that good cars are coming. I like the fact that good crossovers are coming. I hate the fact that it will still take a while before they come.

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From popular mechanics. Link

It's A Family Trait
Major styling changes are in store for the 2007 Cadillac CTS. Among the more prominent differences are the bulging fender flares that contrast the slab-side effect of current styling. Also new is something that auto designers call a "character line" in the sides that runs through the door handles and ends up as a wraparound line in the trunk. This is the same visual cue seen on Cadillac's SRX. This is clearly a styling badge that Cadillac will adopt for all its vehicles. At the rear that character line marks a bend in the taillight faces and forms the top of the lowered license plate recess. The net effect here is a lower aspect for the deck.


I hope the spy pic looked something like this.

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that was a fluke. how can you be objective and not recognize that sometimes carmakers will have flukes, even GM? what about all those recalls we keep hearing about everywhere, should i have a heart attack everytime my car get's recalled to replace a seat belt warning sensor? It's just a fluke, happens all the time. Judge the car for what it is. IF the 3 were that unreliable you think it'd be the best selling luxury car in America [depending on your view of luxury]. the new 3-series is simply the best small sport sedan yet, and they will keep getting better with every generation, GM has to catch up.

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A fluke?

Yeah right....

That many problems in one test and you STILL expect them to crown it the king!?!?!?!

It wouldn't have been a "Fluke" had the CTS experienced the same problems and the BMW been problem free.

How was the final ranking BTW? When was this test?

What's my point? I merely am trying to say to stop infactualizing and remain objective.


Why should we? The media certainly doesn't.

The BMW overall is a better car not factoring in price and size


That sure is A LOT to factor out... In my opinion enough so that it makes the comparison null and void.

But you know what, I am happy with the car and it has not been back into the shop once. But that still does not mean the CTS is the better of the two cars objectively speaking.


Okay... Better reliability, more space, less $$$ a roughly equal driving experience and better styling...

How does that not make it a better car? Any other measures are completely subjective...

This mindset (That even when the GM car has better virtues, it's still not better) is what has and will keep the imports ahead in the media and in the eye of the consumer.It's subconcious for most, but perfectly conscious for others (AKA the journalists)

you are turning them away from GM [and GM is too, by not making their cars better] by not being objective and realizing the beauty of CHOICE.


Why would someone buy or not buy a GM product based on what I say??? For all they know and for all you guys know I'm just some wacko with a GM enthused anger problem that found access to a keyboard out of boredom. It's a pretty persuadable person that would base buying decision on a durable good on what an enthusiast blogger says.

Seriously, other enthusiast blogs aren't unbiaed, the media isn't unbiased so why should we be? I'm not attacking anyone, I think highly of everyone here (I'm just having fun playing Devil's advocate) but we are afterall on a GM ENTHUSIAST SITE in a CADILLAC forum.. OF course you're going to have LOYAL people, we're NOT and never have claimed to be an unbiased site. And although I am biased I am not a GM cheerleader. (Just look at my post in the Fuji sell off for most recent evidence)

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This whole damn segment is bias, which im having a tough time dealing with as of late. Funny how the 330i has problems and its a "fluke". If the Caddy had those same problems it'd be one of those "same ole GM" type of things. CTS-V vs BMW M3 for example, pound for pound dont compare, in my eyes. One's a notch above a rice rocket, the other is a notch below beast. So in that sense, the CTS and the 3-Series ARE different cars aimed at different crowds.

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