Buying American owned & made does matter

[Camino LS6]

Bottom line: We have a wide array of problems with plenty of blame to go around from the government to, the corporations, to the banks, to the individuals. And if we can't get our collective act together, we are toast.

[regfootball]

I think they would be more screwed than we would. About planes and guns, many, many countries buy their planes and guns from us. Should they stop, since they should not be outsourcing them? I believe even Japan has a trade deficit with the US when it comes to planes. Why is it so hard to believe that other countries buying stuff from us, and us buying from them, benefits both sides?

The more advanced China gets, the more they will buy from us. They could not buy anything from us until recently, because they couldn't afford to. Now that some can, just look at the impact it has on one of our American companies already- GM. GM has double digit growth in both sales and profits. If that helps GM become a healthy company again, how is that bad for our economy? If it helps GM make the money it needs to do the R&D for better engines, or to support RWD platforms like Zeta, how is that hurting us?

with Carl Peter in charge, you won't get Zeta no matta.

[regfootball]

Also, look at the condition of our schools..the graduation rates suck, etc. Asian schools take math and science seriously, while American schools are obsessed with sports, etc..

In America, right now, technical jobs hardly get proper pay and are taken for granted. The only jobs that seem to pay anything these days are Upper level bsuiness execs, marketing, lots of fluff jobs. These people always take for granted that someone with the techincal skill will make it happen at their behest, and for dirt wages.

Back in the early days of NASA, the engineers were probably in greater control and got paid well. Today, engineers are micromanaged by 7 layers of buffoons, who think they know squat about squat. All who get paid more than the person who knows how to put together the end product.

Edited January 25, 2008 by regfootball

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Ah, yes, there rears the ugly head of the argument of Freedom. Freedom of Choice. It's like a rallying cry, isn't it?

Where is my freedom, then? My POS made in China blender (less than 3 years old) broke and I searched for 2 f$#king months to find one NOT made in China. THEY DON'T EXIST. What about my rights NOT to buy something made in China or Japan?

AT WHAT POINT WILL WE WAKE UP AND REALIZE IT IS TOO LATE?

The U.S. dollar is crashing, because foreign companies are buying up YOUR assets. Some members on here gloat that GM's stock is worthless, that it's market valuation is less than what Toyota's profits were last year. Well, guess what? What are America's assets worth these days? Who is currently bailing out Citigroup? Oh, that's right: China and Dubai. Who currently holds a trillion dollars worth of U.S. treasury bills? The knee slapping, tear inducing truth is that as the U.S. dollar crashes, your assets get cheaper and cheaper to buy. Yet you guys want to drive around in SUVs, fueled by oil imported from these same countries that are f$#king you behind your back and your unassailable rights to blame Detroit for everything and drive a damned BMW in stop and go traffic on the freeway, because after all, it is imported and better than a CTS.

Oh, the pundits will whine: didn't we hear this all before (in the late '70s when Arabs were buying up assets?) Yes, it has been heard before, but at least there were American (and Canadian jobs back then. I have been bitching about this for years. All we produce these days are paper assets. Well, f$#k Wallstreet and Baystreet - YOU CAN'T EAT PAPER.

So, a few fat-cats on Wallstreet make six figures, buy imported wine and BMWs, and convince us that it's all wonderful. Doesn't anyone see a tiny bit of conflict of interest here? Our generation wants 12% return on investments so we can buy a retirement home in Aspen, while Japanese consumers get NOTHING in their savings accounts so Sony and Toyota can buy up the world. Chinese workers work for $1 an hour so we can save $5 on Tupperware.

We in the West are getting everything we deserve, because we are too fat, too lazy and too selfish to help each other. We would rather man the hatches and f$#k our neighbors jobs because of Freedom of Choice.

Have a nice day!

CARBIZ FTW!!!!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

So our manufacturing base moves to China because we 'demand' cheaper goods, the dollar continues to slide because of the demand for imported goods, the only way Americans can pay for those goods is buy BORROWING MONEY from Chinese and Middle Eastern banks....hmm, what happens when the American dollar isn't worth the paper it is printed on...how will the U.S.economy repay that debt?

OH, THAT'S RIGHT: the Chinese and Middle Eastern banks will just call the loans. Then what is left of America would literally be OWNED by foreign nationals. You think the Chinese businessmen are concerned about that? They don't have a choice, because even if they are honorable, they have no vote in their own country. There are already plans afoot in many countries to move off the U.S. dollar as the standard baseline currency.

And just what can be done about it when you don't even have the manufacturing base to equip the military to fend off creditors coming to foreclose?

Of course this is a nightmare scenario, but I just cannot believe how many people in Washington (and Ottawa, for that matter) are spending like the money grows on trees.

The point is, the next ten years are going to be critical. What we do TODAY is going to influence the next 100 years.

There is no denying that the 20th century belonged to America. Who will the 21st century belong to? THAT IS THE QUESTION.

I am 46. I will be DEAD before most of this pans out. Others, (like BV) are going to be the ones paying for this mess.

I agree 100%!

Personally, I guess I'll grab those guns I'm so fond of

[76ChevyTrucker]

Hmmm, guns... Hey speaking of guns, I get to have fun on the second of Feb.

[Cory Wolfe]

Also speaking of guns... I have no real use for mine anymore, atleast my 10 gauge anyways. The 22 is always fun and you never know when you'll need a rifle for... things.

[76ChevyTrucker]

Yeah, a good thing about a 22 is you can shoot one all day long and never get tired, or sore from shooting it.

[vonVeezelsnider]

There's always Canada.

Didn't you hear, like Delaware was, Canada is also closed

LOL/Jk

[JBsZ06]

Buying american brands matters to me.. so thats what I'll spend my hard earned money on..

JMO

[Satty]

So whats more American, my Fusion, based on a Mazda, mostly engineered in Japan and built in Mexico by a company thats been unloading American workers or a Hyundai Sonata, engineered and built in America by a company that has been investing money into America for the last decade or so?

[ZL-1]

So whats more American, my Fusion, based on a Mazda, mostly engineered in Japan and built in Mexico by a company thats been unloading American workers or a Hyundai Sonata, engineered and built in America by a company that has been investing money into America for the last decade or so?

[pow]

So whats more American, my Fusion, based on a Mazda, mostly engineered in Japan and built in Mexico by a company thats been unloading American workers or a Hyundai Sonata, engineered and built in America by a company that has been investing money into America for the last decade or so?

You should have just gotten the Mazda, which is more American than the Ford based off it: the 6 is assembled in Michigan.

[regfootball]

who's economy gets the greatest gain, short term and long.

[Intrepidation]

So whats more American, my Fusion, based on a Mazda, mostly engineered in Japan and built in Mexico by a company thats been unloading American workers or a Hyundai Sonata, engineered and built in America by a company that has been investing money into America for the last decade or so?

Where do the profits of the Fusion go at the end of the day, where do they go from the Sonata?

[Cory Wolfe]

So whats more American, my Fusion, based on a Mazda, mostly engineered in Japan and built in Mexico by a company thats been unloading American workers or a Hyundai Sonata, engineered and built in America by a company that has been investing money into America for the last decade or so?

Oh, and I do love my 100% Japanese designed, engineered, and built Millenia. It's not a Japanese Ford.

[CARBIZ]

Because GM is the exception rather than the rule.

The trade defecit is only part of the problem. The loans we owe to China today equal the sum total of our GDP.

Also, in just the last 6 years the US has lost 3 million manufacturing jobs.

We are screwing up - badly.

The great economic experiment of the Fifties, which the U.S. (and most of the West) bought into under the Marshal Plan was a great theory for those times: allow small, weak countries unlimited access to the American market, their economies will flourish, their middle class will multiply and, presto, instant future market for American goods.

Ah, except those goods are no longer manufactured in America! Still, the economic advisors tell us that China wouldn't DARE tank our economy because they need us. So, GM and others jump on the bandwagon, spend U.S. dollars to invest and build in China (when they needed our money), teach them how to build and innovate, but who is to say that they won't just turn around (as Japan did) and use our own technology against us? China is a totalitarian society. Japan may be a democracy in theory, but in practice they are not fractured with the internal infighting that plagues most Western democracies: the Japanese rarely eat their own.

I sincerely hope my prognosis is wrong; that we can all just learn to get along. What freaks me out the most is the out of control birth rate in Asia. In a future competition over world resources, who would you bet on? China or the U.S.? Another wildcard here is that Russia is one crackpot away from imploding. With their declining birthrate and emigrating population, they won't be able to defend their borders against the resource-hungry Chinese in another 15-20 years.

What future global scenario involves the U.S. as the center? Why wouldn't a Sino-Russian alliance to control things make more sense? Russia is the largest country in the world, rich with resources, needs an infusion of cash and technology, both of which we are handing to the Chinese on a silver platter. The Chinese are running out of both room and resources.

So, are we exporting our industrial base, our money and our technology for short term greed, or are we still naive enough to think that we can civilize the Mongol hordes? (Sarcasm intended.) There is a new world order coming and I just don't think we are ready for the coming storm.

[frogger]

Where do the profits of the Fusion go at the end of the day, where do they go from the Sonata?

Whomever owns the shares.

Whats a bigger chunk of money, the profits or the money spent at the local manufacturing plant economies to build the cars (wages/satellite support companies in the area etc), and the dealer network etc?

Edited January 26, 2008 by frogger

[regfootball]

if hyundai remains in business and ford goes out of business who does it benefit more?

if toyota remains in business and GM goes out of business, who does it benefit more?

Edited January 26, 2008 by regfootball

[pow]

if hyundai remains in business and ford goes out of business who does it benefit more?

if toyota remains in business and GM goes out of business, who does it benefit more?

GM won't go out of business, and the existence of Toyota or any competitor will improve GM products to the benefit of consuemrs

[daves87rs]

I think they would be more screwed than we would. About planes and guns, many, many countries buy their planes and guns from us. Should they stop, since they should not be outsourcing them? I believe even Japan has a trade deficit with the US when it comes to planes. Why is it so hard to believe that other countries buying stuff from us, and us buying from them, benefits both sides?

The more advanced China gets, the more they will buy from us. They could not buy anything from us until recently, because they couldn't afford to. Now that some can, just look at the impact it has on one of our American companies already- GM. GM has double digit growth in both sales and profits. If that helps GM become a healthy company again, how is that bad for our economy? If it helps GM make the money it needs to do the R&D for better engines, or to support RWD platforms like Zeta, how is that hurting us?

Eh, couple of issues there.

Lots of money is owed, and I would expect a few favors to be called in....

[Satty]

Where do the profits of the Fusion go at the end of the day, where do they go from the Sonata?

There is no "end of the day" since both companies reinvest their profits into their business, its how all company sustain. That said, Ford has been reinvesting its profits into Europe and Asia, laying off American workers, closing American plants and replacing them with foreign workers. Hyundai has been reinvesting its money by building a plants and an R&D center in America, giving American workers jobs, providing a boost to the economy. So yes, where do the profits go?

[regfootball]

GM won't go out of business

we sure are optimists?

ford and chrysler could be damn close. it does matter. they shut down then the foreign companies gobble up the market share and assets and that is one more industry we do not compete in. yet we blow all this money as consumers and our companies being shut down means mailing our incomes over to other countries.

our country's products need to be legit, and people should reward good products, however, the problem is that no one is even considering maintaining the health of AMerican based companies. They think it has no factor on the world stage.

Edited January 26, 2008 by regfootball

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

So whats more American, my Fusion, based on a Mazda, mostly engineered in Japan and built in Mexico by a company thats been unloading American workers or a Hyundai Sonata, engineered and built in America by a company that has been investing money into America for the last decade or so?

Your Fusion.

What, you didn't want an opinion? That's what it all boils dow to anyway.

Besides, it's all about ownership. Ford owns the majority stake in Mazda, so it benefits from the sale.

Edited January 26, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The great economic experiment of the Fifties, which the U.S. (and most of the West) bought into under the Marshal Plan was a great theory for those times: allow small, weak countries unlimited access to the American market, their economies will flourish, their middle class will multiply and, presto, instant future market for American goods.

Ah, except those goods are no longer manufactured in America! Still, the economic advisors tell us that China wouldn't DARE tank our economy because they need us. So, GM and others jump on the bandwagon, spend U.S. dollars to invest and build in China (when they needed our money), teach them how to build and innovate, but who is to say that they won't just turn around (as Japan did) and use our own technology against us? China is a totalitarian society. Japan may be a democracy in theory, but in practice they are not fractured with the internal infighting that plagues most Western democracies: the Japanese rarely eat their own.

I sincerely hope my prognosis is wrong; that we can all just learn to get along. What freaks me out the most is the out of control birth rate in Asia. In a future competition over world resources, who would you bet on? China or the U.S.? Another wildcard here is that Russia is one crackpot away from imploding. With their declining birthrate and emigrating population, they won't be able to defend their borders against the resource-hungry Chinese in another 15-20 years.

What future global scenario involves the U.S. as the center? Why wouldn't a Sino-Russian alliance to control things make more sense? Russia is the largest country in the world, rich with resources, needs an infusion of cash and technology, both of which we are handing to the Chinese on a silver platter. The Chinese are running out of both room and resources.

So, are we exporting our industrial base, our money and our technology for short term greed, or are we still naive enough to think that we can civilize the Mongol hordes? (Sarcasm intended.) There is a new world order coming and I just don't think we are ready for the coming storm.

Once again... CARBIZ FTW!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

There is no "end of the day" since both companies reinvest their profits into their business, its how all company sustain. That said, Ford has been reinvesting its profits into Europe and Asia, laying off American workers, closing American plants and replacing them with foreign workers. Hyundai has been reinvesting its money by building a plants and an R&D center in America, giving American workers jobs, providing a boost to the economy. So yes, where do the profits go?

One could also argue that americans threw the first punch by not investing their money in american products. Therefore, american companies have to offset their costs more and more, especially since the government basically works against them.

That's why, despite the outsourcing, I'm still 100% behind the american companies. If americans want the kind of lifestyle they're used to, then thy need to THINK before they buy and stop being so spoiled that they connotate bad fashion with perfectly competitive products.

I would be fine with classifying everything equal *IF* americans gave equal consideration to all companies. But as it stands right now, is there really any reason to buy an Accord over a Malibu besides personal preference? Not really, yet roiughly 40% of americans refuse to even give the Malibu a chance.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'll lay it all out in simplistic terms:

The more we send our money overseas the more of it we lose.

It would be all well and good to buy imported goods IF we had a healthy manufacturing base in america. However, we do not. Up through the 80s, the average american family was more prosperous because we made things here and exported them; it was a balance, we sent money overseas but also sold things overseas to recoup most of that money. Now, we no longer make things, but we're still sending money overseas. As a result we're seeing more and more people with debt (trying to maintain the lifestyle we were accustomed to) or more and more people with a declining standard of living. If you were making $18/ hour at the mill, $6.50/hour at Wal-Mart isn't going to make up for that kind of spending power. That other $11.50/hour is money gone from our economy, and in this world $$$ = power.

The economy appears to be doing well because the capaitalists at the top (The people who helped sell us out) continue to build wealth through international operations, However, ask any sociologists and he'll tell you that the poor keep getting poorer and quality of life keeps getting worse.

Sure, other countries invest in our economy, but not on the large scale that our manufacturing base did. They invest in our economy for 2 reasons 1) and primary, is to sell us their product for cheaper. 2) Is because they know not to milk the cash cow completely dry. The US is in a wounded state that other countries can maximize their benefits from but those othetr countries won't dare kill us until they've milked all of our wealth. It's not about improving the lives of americans, it's about transfer of wealth.

What I predict will happen: (The most negative possibility besides all out war)

1) Our 'once was' middle class will decline so far that america will become disorganized and unlivable. This might result in economic disaster, it might result in mass poverty or it might even result in internal war. But either way, the writing is on the wall via increasing violence, increased drug use among the "middle class" increased disdain with leadership, etc. The country is literally dividing itself.

-or-

2) China will emerge as the premier wealth and 'investment economy' of the world and america will be forgotten about, left to dry up and die. (Much like Russia) After all, we can't very well manufacture enough to defend ourselves anymore much less bring war against any rivals (Yes, even military vehicles are being outsourced now) and even if we could, america is becoming so diverse and uninterested that we couldn't unite to fight a massive war in the first place.

Either way you put it, one thing is clear; america no longer leads this world and we'll pay a STEEP price for becoming so complacent at the top as other countries/societies are already beginning to use our resources for their gain. No one really likes america, because we clawed our way to the top and they'll probably take pride in stripping us of our assets and worth while we're relegating ourselves to 3rd world status in the next hundred years for the 'advancement of others'

Edited January 26, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Satty]

At some point people had to say "X" is an appreciably better product than "Y" therefore I will purchase "Y" at a similar price because "Y" will be a better purchase for "Z" amount of time. That goes for cars, clothes, toasters, everything you can think of. If American products were able to balance quality and price the way imported products can, due to cheaper labor, this wouldn't be a problem. But Americans have a high standard of living, which means they want to be paid more, which means the price of stuff goes up and leaves business less money to run themselves.

[regfootball]

Ford and GM are doing which what was sorely needed. Making their operations global. With that, selling vehicles worldwide, means designing and building all over.

Which is the same thing all the other companies are doing.

That said, Ford and GM are still American based companies. Their primary interest is to operate as an American company. To remain in business, they must be global and operate as such.

But I want them both to succeed. All the cars that are bought sold and serviced here are a large part of our economic strength. Plus now we get some extra benefit from selling over seas.

If FOrd and GM go out of business then, we are still blowing tons of money on our cars, but it does not benefit an American company in the same way or the AMerican economy. It would give the outsiders the incentive to pull out of here and start running plants and jobs in India, CHina, Korea. The design and engineering and management and marketing would follow eventually too (what little they do here).

The US just becomes a big walmart store selling cars. Ship em in from china and throw them on the shelves. Send the money back on the boat. People who do not think this is bad, I am not sure I want to share space in the US with them.

I am about free fair trade if there is no trade deficit and the health of our companies and position in their world markets are secure. And so, if that means a little cheaper interior plastic in some cases, and its the type of car i want, good. If an American company just doesn't fill what i need, then I do not have an issue beying foreign make, I just do not want to reward unfair companies like Toyota. Ones who obviously exploit things with malice. Like the 23 month, 29 day temp workers and such.

Edited January 26, 2008 by regfootball

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

At some point people had to say "X" is an appreciably better product than "Y" therefore I will purchase "Y" at a similar price because "Y" will be a better purchase for "Z" amount of time. That goes for cars, clothes, toasters, everything you can think of. If American products were able to balance quality and price the way imported products can, due to cheaper labor, this wouldn't be a problem. But Americans have a high standard of living, which means they want to be paid more, which means the price of stuff goes up and leaves business less money to run themselves.

I agree 100%

That's individualist attitude I'm referring to when I always complain about 'spoiled americans'

I'm all for freedom of choice and being an individual, but at what point is it going to become detrimental to our well being. I, for one, think we've already passed it.

Edited January 26, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[CaddyXLR-V]

At some point people had to say "X" is an appreciably better product than "Y" therefore I will purchase "Y" at a similar price because "Y" will be a better purchase for "Z" amount of time. That goes for cars, clothes, toasters, everything you can think of. If American products were able to balance quality and price the way imported products can, due to cheaper labor, this wouldn't be a problem. But Americans have a high standard of living, which means they want to be paid more, which means the price of stuff goes up and leaves business less money to run themselves.

Not only do they want to be paid more, but they demand products at a lower price. How many on this board would complain if the Cobalt was repriced at $18,000, the Malibu at $26,000, and Impala was $35,000? What if the G8 was $40,000 for the GT? Shouldn't that be a good thing, because the money goes to a US company, and helps the US company make money? On one hand, you have GM fans complaining the price is too high, on the other hand, you have union workers complaining they want to get paid more.

[CARBIZ]

To show how you deep the level of ignorance goes, Ontario's reverered Premier, Dalton McGuinty was asked by reporters the other day what we (Ontarians) can do for the economy, since the manufacturing base is getting decimated. His response: 'buy a refrigerator.'

I have to laugh at that because I have not had a refrigerator working since Wednesday, when I discovered the (less than) 5 year old Frigidaire (built by Electrolux, in - you guessed it, China) food compartment was warm. After throwing about $50 worth of food, I read McGuinty's remarks.

IS HE KIDDING ME? I have a 5 year old POS refrigerator that isn't working. If I bought another one, it will ony benefit the Chinese. Is Electrolux even an North American company any more? Probably not. Just like IBM sold their manufacturing base to Lenovo, we are f$#king ourselves. If I bought a new refrigerator, perhaps the store would make $100 to circulate around the local economy (assuming they don't all drive home in their Hondas and Hyundais, that is), the shipper will make some money, but the entire fridge was made in China. If we're lucky, maybe some profit will return to Georgia (where the sticker says Electrolux is located), but I suspect they aren't American owned any more.

The ugly truth is, the clear and unmistakeable CRAP coming out of China is so inferior that it is SCARY. I don't want to buy anything made in China, but I don't have a choice. As I have found time and time again recently, none of these products are built here any more.

In 20 years, if China decides to invade us, it will be the first war ever fought without a shot. By that time we will all be living in log cabins (assuming we haven't sold all our lumber to China by then, that is), because none of our mechanical devices will be working and we will all be working 72 hour weeks mining and hewing to pay back the debts we owe to the Asian banks.

I, for one, would pay double for a f$#King fridge, if it was built in North America.

[Robert Hall]

I wonder if there are any consumer appliances (refrigerators, washers, dryers, etc) made in the US or Canada? How about consumer electronics (TVs, stereos, etc)?

Edited January 27, 2008 by moltar

[Intrepidation]

I wonder where our GE fridge we bought last year was made.

[Robert Hall]

It looks like Viking appliances are made in the US, but those are pretty spendy usually..

[CARBIZ]

You have to be very careful at reading lablels. Often, they will say Such and Such Company, New York, New York, but you have to look at the Made in.. label. When I shopped for a/c units 2 years ago, I looked for 2 weeks. I thought I had found one that was made in New YOrk, but more careful inspection revealed that the item was Made in PRC. Very f$#king clever: how many dimwits are savvy enough to figure out what PRC stands for. Kudos to Miele for trying to pull that one off.

[vonVeezelsnider]

if the Cobalt was repriced at $18,000, the Malibu at $26,000, and Impala was $35,000? What if the G8 was $40,000 for the GT?

Welcome to Canada. Want anything more than a bare bones Impala? Fork out >32K$... I cringe to think what the G8 will cost here.

[regfootball]

I wonder if there are any consumer appliances (refrigerators, washers, dryers, etc) made in the US or Canada? How about consumer electronics (TVs, stereos, etc)?

my asko washer and dryer are made in sweden. although next time, it will be bosch. i have a bosch dishwasher and double oven, although I am not sure where they were made. My DCS range top I think is US made. My Philips plasma, not sure but at least its Philips, not Sony. I do have some samsung cell phones, but even motorola farms out most cell phones now. My sherwood newcastle brand audio equipment most pieces are great britain and paradigm speakers are US / Canada I think. Where are craftsman / sears tools made? varies I suppose. My couch i bought last Jan (2200 bucks) was made in California i think (prob with illegals I suppose but who knows). My Apple TV is likely made in a third world, which bugs me.

Carbiz, your fridge may not be shot. Your compressor may not be shot. My buddy had his fridge go out a few months ago. HE CALLED ME on the phone to bitch about what he paid to fix it. The compressor was NOT bad, it is some electronic brain / part that plus labor may be like 300 bucks CA to fix. Or, like my buddy says, find out the part, buy one or two and keep it on hand and do it yourself. I wish i remembered what the name of the part is. I don't think its a fuse. Maybe a controller or something.

I have a separate fridge and freezer, whirlpool brand. Just checked. MADE IN CANADA! they are experts in cold so i guess it makes sense.!

Edited January 27, 2008 by regfootball

[Cory Wolfe]

Well, we still have an old yellow GM Frigidaire fridge that is in use for a beer keg... Just say the word, you can have it.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Well, we still have an old yellow GM Frigidaire fridge that is in use for a beer keg... Just say the word, you can have it.

Our elderly neighbors still use their 1941 White GM Fridge as well.

[CARBIZ]

Welcome to Canada. Want anything more than a bare bones Impala? Fork out >32K$... I cringe to think what the G8 will cost here.

Well, again, I have to intervene: the Cobalt has 72 month 0% financing (a first in the industry), which should save at least $2,500 if you don't use your own money, plus a $1,200 stackable credit and a free sunroof on the 1SB package: if you coupled all that, it will bring the 'sticker' down at least $4,500 or more (if you had to 'borrow' you cash at more than 4 or 5%.) A lease on a loaded (roof, 16" alloy wheels, etc.) is cheaper than a base LT was 2 years ago, by about $25 a month. In more than ten years, I've never seen deals like this - not even during Employee Pricing 2 years ago.

GM is playing it smart here. They are trying to maintain some semblance of resale value, so they are not just going to arbitrarily drop the MSRP by a few grand, just because the Canadian dollar is having a good year. I will tell you that there are many BIG leasing companies out there about to go down because they are sitting on a lot of inventory that has come off lease (Jags, BMWs, you name it..) and they are losing TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars off the buy backs if the leases were 'closed.'

Marketing 101: do not bastardize your product. Give away popcorn, balloons, whatever it takes, but don't just shred your credibity to pieces by dropping the price.

There is also one very, very big GM group of companies in dire straits just now :AH-HA_wink: : they've been put on COD, etc. This rapid rise of the Canadian dollar is giving all manufacturers, dealers and leasing companies BIG heartburn.

[CARBIZ]

my asko washer and dryer are made in sweden. although next time, it will be bosch. i have a bosch dishwasher and double oven, although I am not sure where they were made. My DCS range top I think is US made. My Philips plasma, not sure but at least its Philips, not Sony. I do have some samsung cell phones, but even motorola farms out most cell phones now. My sherwood newcastle brand audio equipment most pieces are great britain and paradigm speakers are US / Canada I think. Where are craftsman / sears tools made? varies I suppose. My couch i bought last Jan (2200 bucks) was made in California i think (prob with illegals I suppose but who knows). My Apple TV is likely made in a third world, which bugs me.

Carbiz, your fridge may not be shot. Your compressor may not be shot. My buddy had his fridge go out a few months ago. HE CALLED ME on the phone to bitch about what he paid to fix it. The compressor was NOT bad, it is some electronic brain / part that plus labor may be like 300 bucks CA to fix. Or, like my buddy says, find out the part, buy one or two and keep it on hand and do it yourself. I wish i remembered what the name of the part is. I don't think its a fuse. Maybe a controller or something.

I have a separate fridge and freezer, whirlpool brand. Just checked. MADE IN CANADA! they are experts in cold so i guess it makes sense.!

Reg, my freezer is still working, so I know it isn't the compressor. Either something inside is plugged, or perhaps there are two fans (one for each compartment) and the blower for the fridge part has quit. My point is: it is only 5 or 6 years old. I had a mid-50s era refrigerator drop 8 feet and nearly land on me (back in 1979 when we were moving it off the roof of my great aunt's place after she died), yet it still worked for 10 years after that with the corner smashed in - and it landed upside down onto asphalt. How's that for good 'ol Canadian build quality? The crap that China is pawning off on us now is tantamount to an Act of War, IMO.

[regfootball]

my folks have a 40 yo fridge...works dandy. GE. I hope mine last. no one makes separates anymore, so if mine go out, I am hosed.

[daves87rs]

I think some Kitchenaid products are made in the USA....

[balthazar]

We just bought a Bosch dishwasher this month, spec label sez 'Made in the U.S.A of U.S. and imported parts'.

Just saw a piece on This Old House about disposals, big factory & R&D place in Racine WI, supposedly one of the best in the industry, tho I disremember the brand name.

>>"The crap that China is pawning off on us now is tantamount to an Act of War, IMO. "<<

Agreed.

>>"the blower for the fridge part has quit. My point is: it is only 5 or 6 years old."<<

Manuacturers world-wide are hard at work designing & engineering shorter & shorter product lifespans... must be fufilling to them to know they're pretty successful. I am apprehensive about replacing my current 16-yr old stove & fridge- they're already well past their expected lifespans, and the new stuff is averaging the shortest expectancy in industry history.

Maybe I should bring the '58 GE up from the basement and rest easy...

[Robert Hall]

my folks have a 40 yo fridge...works dandy. GE. I hope mine last. no one makes separates anymore, so if mine go out, I am hosed.

Those GEs seem to go and on...my folks GE fridge made it 38 years before it died...was in excellent shape, appearance-wise.

[Intrepidation]

This thread inspired me to fix my dishwasher

[daves87rs]

Those GEs seem to go and on...my folks GE fridge made it 38 years before it died...was in excellent shape, appearance-wise.

I neber seen a fridge last that long...

[daves87rs]

To show how you deep the level of ignorance goes, Ontario's reverered Premier, Dalton McGuinty was asked by reporters the other day what we (Ontarians) can do for the economy, since the manufacturing base is getting decimated. His response: 'buy a refrigerator.'

I have to laugh at that because I have not had a refrigerator working since Wednesday, when I discovered the (less than) 5 year old Frigidaire (built by Electrolux, in - you guessed it, China) food compartment was warm. After throwing about $50 worth of food, I read McGuinty's remarks.

IS HE KIDDING ME? I have a 5 year old POS refrigerator that isn't working. If I bought another one, it will ony benefit the Chinese. Is Electrolux even an North American company any more? Probably not. Just like IBM sold their manufacturing base to Lenovo, we are f$#king ourselves. If I bought a new refrigerator, perhaps the store would make $100 to circulate around the local economy (assuming they don't all drive home in their Hondas and Hyundais, that is), the shipper will make some money, but the entire fridge was made in China. If we're lucky, maybe some profit will return to Georgia (where the sticker says Electrolux is located), but I suspect they aren't American owned any more.

The ugly truth is, the clear and unmistakeable CRAP coming out of China is so inferior that it is SCARY. I don't want to buy anything made in China, but I don't have a choice. As I have found time and time again recently, none of these products are built here any more.

In 20 years, if China decides to invade us, it will be the first war ever fought without a shot. By that time we will all be living in log cabins (assuming we haven't sold all our lumber to China by then, that is), because none of our mechanical devices will be working and we will all be working 72 hour weeks mining and hewing to pay back the debts we owe to the Asian banks.

I, for one, would pay double for a f$#King fridge, if it was built in North America.

Maybe not double....but more sure...

[Drew Dowdell]

I have a friend who is really really into antiques and keeping his house "period"

He has and uses a 1930s GE refridgerator in his kitchen.

Just one of these: