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Bob Lutz Comments on the Future of GM's Brands

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When Lutz talks, people seem to listen. So here's what he told a roundtable of journalists about the future of each of GM's brands.

MICHAEL BETTENCOURT

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

January 22, 2009 at 12:00 AM EST

DETROIT — Robert A. Lutz, GM's charismatic vice-chairman of product development, doesn't know the meaning of "no comment" — one of the reasons he's so popular with auto journalists, who are fed everything the companies want them to say about the positive aspects of their cars, but often get stonewalled when questions turn to less-flattering subjects.

This is not the Lutz way: very few companies have as blunt a corporate leader willing to provide a small window into the inner workings of the company.

So when Lutz declined to comment in a roundtable with journalists at the press preview of the Detroit auto show about whether a redesigned Saab 9-5 was coming out this year, the silence hung thickly in the air. The runaway commentary train that usually is Bob Lutz was locked firmly in the station.

What he did provide, however, was an insider's report card on the health of all of GM's brands around the world, some of which have a future — assuming GM itself can last — and others which may not make it to the next Detroit auto show.

General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz

Enlarge Image

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Saab

The Swedish brand may have a future past this year, but the way things are sounding from Lutz, that future won't be with GM for long.

"Many of us liked Saab, and we perhaps let our emotions rule our head by letting it go on so long," he said. "Saab has never been profitable, and likely never was, so it's just a luxury we cannot afford right now."

GM and Chrysler must submit plans to the U.S. federal government by Feb. 17 on how they plan to restructure themselves, which will likely include brand — as well as job — cuts, with any amendments to those plans due at the end of March.

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Hummer

Hummer is the least-surprising brand to get Lutz's failing grade, as it has officially been on the shopping block for the past six months, although it hasn't exactly been an easy sell.

The problem with the brand is that it somehow became a poster child for the evils of the environmentally unconscionable, Lutz argued.

"Every mile driven in a Hummer was another nail in the Earth's coffin, or at least that's how it was portrayed by certain groups," said Lutz.

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Saturn

Saturn was almost the exact opposite, with highly regarded vehicles and a modern earth-friendly vehicle fleet, but it couldn't muster up enough sales or recognition from its 400 or so North American dealers to make it work, said GM's product czar, who has presided over many Saturn debuts over the past three years.

"We certainly spent the money on Saturn products," lamented Lutz, noting that the Sky roadster, which made its debut for 2006, is the oldest vehicle in that brand's lineup.

Although no timing was set, it's clear that Lutz wants something done sooner rather than later. "It's got to be soon, because we have to get rid of things that aren't paying for themselves."

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The keepers

Lutz also spoke about how GM's more successful brands around the world are faring and the likely future for each. Here are the ones that remain part of GM's long-term strategy, according to Lutz, and why:

Chevrolet: GM's one true mainstream global brand.

Cadillac: Also a strong global brand; its sales can't match some luxury competitors, but it's profitable.

Buick: More of a regional brand, but very strong in China, which GM is trying hardest to spare from product cuts.

GMC: Also a regional brand, but still profitable, even if its products are close to Chevrolet trucks.

Vauxhall/Opel: These European Saturns will likely keep their separate identities, Vauxhall for England, Opel for the rest of Europe.

Pontiac: The G8, G6, Solstice and Solstice Coupe will remain, said Lutz, but the days of Pontiac as a mainstream brand will likely come to a close.

Holden: Another regional brand, this one from Australia, but one that has integrated itself into the global product pipeline, as a source for rear-wheel-drive V-8s especially.

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Lutz's boss, GM CEO Rick Wagoner, has indicated that Saturn may yet survive the coming restructuring, but no matter how many brands survive the shakeout, it will certainly be a historic year.

"This is as bad as I've ever seen it," said the 76-year-old Lutz, who led Ford of Europe and Chrysler before joining GM in 2001. Government regulations imposed on the car companies have become much more stringent since he headed up Chrysler during the recession of the early 1990s, the last time U.S. sales were as low as in 2008, he said.

Plus he sees a collapse of the small-car market that was doing so well in United States at the beginning of the year, thanks to lower gas prices, as American consumers start to slowly turn to trucks again. Americans buy the biggest vehicles their gas budget can afford, he said during the Detroit show.

"Even at Chrysler [in the 1990s], it wasn't this bad, as the overall economy wasn't as bad, and there wasn't a credit meltdown going on at the same time (as major sales drops)."

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The problem with the brand is that it somehow became a poster child for the evils of the environmentally unconscionable, Lutz argued.

"Every mile driven in a Hummer was another nail in the Earth's coffin, or at least that's how it was portrayed by certain groups," said Lutz.

Somehow???? SOMEHOW?!?!?!?

Yeah, it became that because the media decided to attach that image to the brand because it was successful... Remember kids, EVERY domestic brand that sees success MUST be assigned a negative stereotype (by the media) to quell that success. Hummer is for baby killing hedonistic pricks... Pontiac is the redneck brand (which is why I love it so much, naturally, :rolleyes:) Cadillacs only sell to black people (and Chryslers only sell to poor black people or 'gangstas') Buicks are for old people, as are Lincolns... The list goes on....

Pontiac: The G8, G6, Solstice and Solstice Coupe will remain, said Lutz, but the days of Pontiac as a mainstream brand will likely come to a close.

Good!

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Somehow???? SOMEHOW?!?!?!?

Yeah, it became that because the media decided to attach that image to the brand because it was successful... Remember kids, EVERY domestic brand that sees success MUST be assigned a negative stereotype (by the media) to quell that success. Hummer is for baby killing hedonistic pricks... Pontiac is the redneck brand (which is why I love it so much, naturally, :rolleyes:) Cadillacs only sell to black people (and Chryslers only sell to poor black people or 'gangstas') Buicks are for old people, as are Lincolns... The list goes on....

Good!

With all due respect, what 'image' would you expect from a brand that sells reproductions of War machines (during an immensely unpopular war) that get crap gas mileage in a time of crazy prices?

Your description of brand 'image' only reveals your prejudices and ignorance. GM has been so tone deaf in its marketing, advertising and PR for years--allowing the MSM set the talking points, rather than doing something about the problem.

The reason people hold GM responsible for far past sins is that GM has been so completely unsuccessful in crafting an effective gameplan, which mirrored their frank inability to develop product to silence their critics. They've sat in Detroit, with a siege mentality, blaming everyone else (which continues today) and wishing for a change that never was going to come without deep soul-searching

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"people buy the biggest vehicle their gas budget can afford" ??? Is that why Mini sales are rising while large sedans are tanking, why the 3-series is the #1 selling luxury car, why the Lexus RX outsells the bigger Enclave and SRX, why the Prius outsold the entire Buick brand last year.

If GM gets back into the "build trucks and full size sedans, because that is what Americans want" they are going to be dead by 2012. And as long as Hummer is around, that will be the poster child for how GM feels about the environment, the Volt will flop if Hummer is still around, because the press and car buying public will see the Volt as a gimmick just so GM can keep selling Hummers and Suburbans that get 12 mpg.

Edited by smk4565
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With all due respect, what 'image' would you expect from a brand that sells reproductions of War machines (during an immensely unpopular war) that get crap gas mileage in a time of crazy prices?

I would expect the supposedly "diverse" and "accepting" members of our society to mind their own business, not judge people based on something so shallow and let people buy what they want.

But alas... This is america: land of the hypocrite, home of the spoiled. It just makes me sick that the land of the free isn't actually free at all. In fact it's becoming more socialist by the day as we're expected to act, think and purchase a specific way.

Your description of brand 'image' only reveals your prejudices and ignorance.

LOL, yeah right... So, you confirm my theory as fact (by your above response) then renege the entire argument as :bs: that's in my head alone? LOL.

No... These stereotypes aren't thrown around ALL he time in the media and on the blogs (even this very forum) But it's my own ignorance and not the fault of anyone else or universally accepted truth :rolleyes: I think I'll add an inability to accept reality as a fundamental flaw in the character of the typical american.

Sweep it under the rug... The economy isn't going to crash. Bury my head in the sand... the housing market isn't going anywhere. Look the other way... We don't need manufacturing. It's a denial of responsibility that has become status quo for this nation and it seeps all the way down to our very basic view of life.

GM has been so tone deaf in its marketing, advertising and PR for years--allowing the MSM set the talking points, rather than doing something about the problem.

I agree

The reason people hold GM responsible for far past sins is that GM has been so completely unsuccessful in crafting an effective gameplan, which mirrored their frank inability to develop product to silence their critics. They've sat in Detroit, with a siege mentality, blaming everyone else (which continues today) and wishing for a change that never was going to come without deep soul-searching

Sadly... I agree with that too.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Added the full article to your original post Wildcat, so we don't have to jump to the other site to view it. Plus this is going on the Front. :)

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Appreciate your interest, Dodgefan, but doesn't that violate copyright, reproducing an article from elsewhere in full?

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i think its cool as long as its cited. (we dont have the nice picture so its not entirely hehe)

hummer could have possibly been saved if it had a diesel in the lineup. that 6.0 should have never been doing the job. rappers made it the must have car when it hit the lots, still there is no real reason to justify it though. in fact there is one in my old high school parking lot thats driven by a student. what the piss?

Edited by cletus8269
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Appreciate your interest, Dodgefan, but doesn't that violate copyright, reproducing an article from elsewhere in full?

It's ok as long as you site the source, and don't try to claim it as your own, unless they specifically ask you not to.

Now if it was labeled "C&G exclusive article" with no source, then we would have a problem. :P

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And as long as Hummer is around, that will be the poster child for how GM feels about the environment, the Volt will flop if Hummer is still around, because the press and car buying public will see the Volt as a gimmick just so GM can keep selling Hummers and Suburbans that get 12 mpg.
Let's assume this is true for a minute. Where is the venom for Toyota for the same thing? Toyota produces the Prius and that makes it okay that they sell the Tundra and Sequoia, which incidentally get WORSE gas mileage than comparably equipped GM models. GM produces the Volt and its just a gimmick so they can keep selling Hummers and Suburbans? :rolleyes: If that is really the way the American car buying public feels, then you are right, GM will be out of business in no time because apparently nothing can take the shine off of Toyota's green image despite the fact it is largely predicated on one model that makes up a little over 1% of the total NA car market.
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Let's assume this is true for a minute. Where is the venom for Toyota for the same thing? Toyota produces the Prius and that makes it okay that they sell the Tundra and Sequoia, which incidentally get WORSE gas mileage than comparably equipped GM models. GM produces the Volt and its just a gimmick so they can keep selling Hummers and Suburbans? :rolleyes: If that is really the way the American car buying public feels, then you are right, GM will be out of business in no time because apparently nothing can take the shine off of Toyota's green image despite the fact it is largely predicated on one model that makes up a little over 1% of the total NA car market.

100% correct.

Which only highlights the hole GM has dug for itself. Toyota made a wise play in the hybrid field--the innovation has now become the world best marketing tool. Why do you think GM is sustaining the pace for the Volt. Like any team, they've stolen the best plays from others. The result is in the execution of this plan.

You can't hammer Toyota for their foresight and , let's face it, bold gamble.

Whoever runs GM will earn their millions, but that, in a nutshell, is the obstacle that must be overcome.

Edited by enzl
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That is a GM line-up I can deal with. I hope Pontiac is safe and with a new G6 in a few years I see no reason why they won't be. Seems logical to me.

Edited by gm4life
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Lutz says more than his prayers, the end of 2010 can't come soon enough for me ...

And what's supposed to happen then?

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Shouldn't Buick be included with Opel and Vauxhall since all three brands will share Opel sourced products in the future (the only exception would be that a couple of flagship vehicles will be added to Buick's lineup: the LaCrosse and Enclave)? Buick (NA and China), Opel (Europe), and Vauxhall (Great Britain) are all regional versions of the same basic lineup (if GM follows through with aligning Buick with Opel).

I still don't think there is a clear plan for Pontiac. Recent reports (some from Lutz himself) have Pontiac keeping different vehicles (the only constant deletions have been the Torrent and G8 ST). If most of GM's RWD plans and platforms are going to be discontinued or cancelled in the future, GM will need to find a different niche for Pontiac to fill (if they even really plan on keeping the brand going long term at all). Everyone keeps stating that certain products will continue, but no one indicates for how long. Given that 2 of the products (Solstice and G8) are on platforms (Kappa and Zeta) that GM doesn't seem to be committed to anymore and the other (G6) has been given a halfhearted MCE, I don't hold much hope for a long future for Pontiac based on these products. I still think the best plan for Pontiac (and its continued survival) at this point (considering GM's recent RWD phobia) would be to make the brand a sporty entry premium sub-brand in the B-P-G network. Pontiac could sell North American built versions of the next gen Corsa 3-door/5-door and Astra 3-door/5-door (it could even sell NA built versions of the next gen Tigra/Astra TwinTops if GM continues with these products/bodystyles). Buick would still get NA built versions of the current Insignia sedan, the next gen Astra sedan, a facelifted or next gen Antara, and the next gen Meriva/Zafira MPVs. Basically, Pontiac would pick up the small Opel products that don't seem to fit well with Buick's brand image. This isn't my preferred future for Pontiac, but it is one that fits in with the general direction of the B-P-G network and GM's apparent RWD phobia.

There are 2 different strategies that GM could follow for Saturn:

1) After the current Vibe finishes its model cycle, maybe GM can utilize their partnership with Toyota at NUMMI to produce a family of compact vehicles off the next gen Corolla platform for Saturn to sell. The brand started its existence with a family of small vehicles (sedan, coupe, and wagon) that was supposed to appeal to Asian import shoppers. Maybe a sedan, 3-door coupe, and tall wagon (essentially the next gen Vibe) could be produced for this brand from this arrangement that would still appeal to Asian import shoppers. Basically this plan would be returning Saturn to its original mission and purpose, except that its products would be codeveloped with an actual Asian auto company this time around. Since these vehicles would overlap and compete with GM developed products for Chevrolet, there would be no need to expand Saturn into Chevy dealerships where Saturn currently has no presence. I'm assuming that most Saturn dealerships currently exist in markets where Asian imports are popular so there would be no need for further expansion of the brand.

OR

2) Give Saturn some of the small vehicles developed by GMDAT. There is a rumor that GM is developing a hatchback version of the Cruze (3 and 5 door maybe?); Saturn could pick up the hatchback models (with a different grille treatment) while Chevrolet could sell the more mainstream (and higher volume) sedan model. Since Chevrolet has the upcoming LWB Theta based next gen Equinox that can be fitted with 4 or 6 cylinder engines as well as the upcoming Delta based Orlando MPV, maybe GM can give Saturn the SWB Theta based Captiva as a 4 cylinder only compact crossover offering (again with a different grille). Since Saturn is picking up specific GM developed products that won't be sold by Chevrolet, it will need to be expanded into select Chevy dealerships only in markets where Saturn currently has no market presence.

Either one of these plans could work to keep Saturn going while returning the brand to something closer to its original form.

I submitted a plan for Saab on another forum topic. Basically, the plan calls for the brand to be transformed into a 3 product small premium vehicle boutique brand to complement Cadillac (sort of like the relationship between Mini and BMW).

Overall, I like the idea of GM designating Chevy, Buick/GMC, and Cadillac as the corporation's core brands in North America. This doesn't mean that the other brands need to necessarily be cut out of the process, they just need reimagined roles that position them as sub-brands that support the core brands (I think Saturn, Pontiac, and Saab are all worthy candidates for this type of transformation). Hummer is the only brand that doesn't seem to fit in with this view of the future. Unless the brand could be transformed into a Land Rover type of upscale SUV brand to complement Cadillac (which would then lose the Escalade, ESV, and EXT), then it needs to go.

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enzl - >>"With all due respect, what 'image' would you expect from a brand that sells reproductions of War machines (during an immensely unpopular war) that get crap gas mileage in a time of crazy prices?"<<

H2 and H3 are no more 'repros of "war machines" :rolleyes: than a Jeep is of another "war machine". Where is Jeep's bad image there?

BTW- you have seemingly forgotten the wave of support & aspiration towards the H1 (a mere 125 sold in '07) on the heels of that very conflict- surprising, because it was huge.

BTW- you'll pay less in fuel costs to drive an H2 than a nissan pathfinder, which is rated the same but requires premium. That's the reality. Now.... what, exactly, are we dealing with in calling an H2 a "war machine" and not raising an eyebrow at the pathfinder for "geting crap mileage in a time of crazy prices" ? Where are the pitchforks & torches outside nissan's world headquarters ?

>>"Your description of brand 'image' only reveals your prejudices and ignorance."<<

Edited by balthazar
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I would expect the supposedly "diverse" and "accepting" members of our society to mind their own business, not judge people based on something so shallow and let people buy what they want.

But alas... This is america: land of the hypocrite, home of the spoiled. It just makes me sick that the land of the free isn't actually free at all. In fact it's becoming more socialist by the day as we're expected to act, think and purchase a specific way

Yep, in a nutshell. It's really too bad that Americans don't think for themselves any more....they let others do that for them.

I'm not even sure that Volt is going to brighten GM's image...because we will still be talking about those loans.... :rolleyes:

I'm sure the Cruze will be outdated when it comes out too......

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wouldn't you really rather have a buick?

um, no. I'd rather have a saturn or pontiac.

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i wonder how much infighting is going on right now at GM re: save saturn and strip pontiac vs. kill saturn and trim pontiac and then when no one is looking, grow it back.

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100% correct.

Which only highlights the hole GM has dug for itself. Toyota made a wise play in the hybrid field--the innovation has now become the world best marketing tool. Why do you think GM is sustaining the pace for the Volt. Like any team, they've stolen the best plays from others. The result is in the execution of this plan.

You can't hammer Toyota for their foresight and , let's face it, bold gamble.

Whoever runs GM will earn their millions, but that, in a nutshell, is the obstacle that must be overcome.

I'm not hammering Toyota. I just find it odd that even the Honda hybrids haven't gotten the love the Toyota's have. I guess Honda's big mistake was not making the original Insight a 4 seater. I'm not mad at the other car companies (foreign included) for missing the bandwagon on hybrids either. To this day they only make up around 2.5% of the market which doesn't make for a good business case based on sales alone. I bet even Toyota didn't realize all the positive implications the Prius would have for them. I truly believe they go luckier than even they could have imagined. GM makes the EV1 and it gives them some mild positive press that was far outweighed by the negative press when they pulled them from market and crushed them. I guess some car companies just can't win no matter what they do.

Oh, and no question that the Big 3 have dug this hole for themselves. Still, their products have been steadily improving for years and now many, though **not all** of their products are on parity with the best the others have to offer. The irony is even the Euro's have a better quality reputation and in most instances, its not even remotely justified. It just goes to show you that perception is just as important as reality, if not more important. It took far too long for the Big 3 to realize that perceived quality is just as important as actual quality.

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enzl - >>"With all due respect, what 'image' would you expect from a brand that sells reproductions of War machines (during an immensely unpopular war) that get crap gas mileage in a time of crazy prices?"<<

H2 and H3 are no more 'repros of "war machines" :rolleyes: than a Jeep is of another "war machine". Where is Jeep's bad image there?

BTW- you have seemingly forgotten the wave of support & aspiration towards the H1 (a mere 125 sold in '07) on the heels of that very conflict- surprising, because it was huge.

BTW- you'll pay less in fuel costs to drive an H2 than a nissan pathfinder, which is rated the same but requires premium. That's the reality. Now.... what, exactly, are we dealing with in calling an H2 a "war machine" and not raising an eyebrow at the pathfinder for "geting crap mileage in a time of crazy prices" ? Where are the pitchforks & torches outside nissan's world headquarters ?

>>"Your description of brand 'image' only reveals your prejudices and ignorance."<<

Hummer is a dumb brand for posers and rap stars, happy? Jeep has a storied, rich history. Hummer is one more bad call by GM.

It took extremely valuable development dollars away from brands with a future. (And, BTW, Nissan's SUV sales are in the crapper--they're just not wholly dependent upon them for profitability. Apples, meet Oranges.

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Hummer is a dumb brand for posers and rap stars, happy? Jeep has a storied, rich history. Hummer is one more bad call by GM.

All of those posers and rap stars in the middle east?

And, I think Hummer was an EXCELLENT investment. When the H2 broke big GM was making HUGE margins on the Hummer brand. It wasn't until the b*tches in the media found the weak spot in the divisions armor and started exploiting it every chance they got that Hummer became transformed into everything we americans should supposedly hate.

It took extremely valuable development dollars away from brands with a future. (And, BTW, Nissan's SUV sales are in the crapper--they're just not wholly dependent upon them for profitability. Apples, meet Oranges.

Mileage and efficiency aren't apples and oranges... And if we ARE going to try and justify apples and oranges, it seems that 1) the failure of Nissan, a full line brand and arguably THE hottest brand of the early 00s to succeed in a market that they (according to the media) were supposed to make huge inroads into is a much bigger story. And 2) The fact that a major manufacturer is losing it's ass on core products is a MUCH better story than a division that sells to 3% of the population and shares the stable with 7 other divisions that can offset it's loss.

It's bias, plain and simple. It's what will kill GM and the rest of Detroit. They cannot win this game because too many people have too much power over their success.

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Lutz needs to stop talking and retire! This guy is living in his own little world. For years he's been promising us that GM will be a global leader. He destroyed Pontiac, destoryed Saab, turned every car in the GM line up into boring, watered down designs, and he seems to have an obsession with tacky interior materials. He came to GM as a savior, so far all he's brought us are niche cars, and a Cobalt. Maybe GM should hire someone like Mulally instead of these dinosaurs, who think they are making "gotta-have cars". Yeah..... gotta have for the rental lot.

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All of those posers and rap stars in the middle east?

And, I think Hummer was an EXCELLENT investment. When the H2 broke big GM was making HUGE margins on the Hummer brand. It wasn't until the b*tches in the media found the weak spot in the divisions armor and started exploiting it every chance they got that Hummer became transformed into everything we americans should supposedly hate.

Mileage and efficiency aren't apples and oranges... And if we ARE going to try and justify apples and oranges, it seems that 1) the failure of Nissan, a full line brand and arguably THE hottest brand of the early 00s to succeed in a market that they (according to the media) were supposed to make huge inroads into is a much bigger story. And 2) The fact that a major manufacturer is losing it's ass on core products is a MUCH better story than a division that sells to 3% of the population and shares the stable with 7 other divisions that can offset it's loss.

It's bias, plain and simple. It's what will kill GM and the rest of Detroit. They cannot win this game because too many people have too much power over their success.

You are entitled to believe what you'd like...but GMC could have offered these vehicles, at pricing similar to its Denali series, without the investment of GM and its dealers on big, empty 'quonset hut' dealerships and a new brand when GM couldn't afford to feed its own brood.

The 9-5 is in its' 10+ year of production, the DTS is merely a warmed over DeVille from the 90's, and the list goes on. Rather have a Camaro or H3? Wow, that's a tough choice!

You see, GM knew a day of reckoning was coming...distractions like Hummer, with its short-term profits and complete exposure to gas pricing (and war sentiment GLOBALLY) are just the thing that led GM to the precipice. You act like these decisions were mere blips, minor issues that are to be solved---they're actually part of a big picture negligence/ADD/Stupidity that GM has shown a propensity for years.

You see a big truck with great margins---I see the product that could generate good margins (DTS @ 60k+, Saab 9-5 @ 40K+, Camaro, Buick RWDs) thrown out to produce trucks of limited utility and myopic PR. Where are Hummer's margins now? What will dealers cost to buy out?

Blame the media or the boogeyman if you wish---this is just another in a long series of stupid moves by GM that have them begging like a dog for scraps...that's certainly something we should be proud of as fans. :rolleyes:

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