Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
dfelt

GM has more troubles than you think

48 posts in this topic

So here is a Total BS story about how bad GM is due to the same crap rolled over. You would think that the Senior editor who only quotes that Asian Loving company Consumer reports would get his facts before writing a story. There are a few valid comments, but for the most part this is just another story aimed as hurting our own Auto Making business rather than helping it.

CNN Story ON GM has more troubles than you think!

What is your thoughts??????? :scratchchin:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stopped after reading the sub title. Not worth the time.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I stopped after reading the sub title. Not worth the time.

Yeah, that pretty much jaded me to the rest of the article too.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good article. There is some good information in there about some of GM's flaws (cars/architecture, plant capacity, etc.). I encourage those of you with a "shoot the messenger" view of CR to read the article anyways.

I especially liked this, as it was one of GM's most boneheaded moves, and something I raised here years ago (and took quite some C&G flack for it):

"While the automaker was working on systems for low-volume trucks and buses with no consumer visibility, Toyota and Honda were building popular-priced hybrids that average people could actually buy."

This is also spot-on, and will become similarly apparent within a couple of years:

"The Volt has flashy mileage numbers but is very expensive and will have limited utility for most drivers."

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were a few good points, but the not building good cars line is bull$h!, same liberal media trying to take down another great American company. The company I am really worried about is Chrysler.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

f@#k those people. Our 3.5L V6 Chevy Impala gets 40MPG Hwy and our 2.2L Cobalt gets 45MPG hwy and, news flash, They're NOT LOUSY.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good article. There is some good information in there about some of GM's flaws (cars/architecture, plant capacity, etc.). I encourage those of you with a "shoot the messenger" view of CR to read the article anyways.

I especially liked this, as it was one of GM's most boneheaded moves, and something I raised here years ago (and took quite some C&G flack for it):

"While the automaker was working on systems for low-volume trucks and buses with no consumer visibility, Toyota and Honda were building popular-priced hybrids that average people could actually buy."

This is also spot-on, and will become similarly apparent within a couple of years:

"The Volt has flashy mileage numbers but is very expensive and will have limited utility for most drivers."

GXT, I felt the same way about some of the valid points, but I still think that while GM messed up killing the EV1, they did the right thing in building the hybrid Buses that are running all over Seattle and we now no longer have that black smoke and messy smell. Over all the busses here handle far more traffic than the few hybrid auto's but then the average consumer thinks in terms of personal selfishness and wants something only for themselves.

I do agree with you about the Volt, I wonder how many people will really buy a 40K vehicle like this.

Keeping the baby Duramax Diesel alive and into trucks and SUV's with mid to upper 20's for gas milage would make more money for GM than the Volt will.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a douchebag article, cherry picking facts that suit the author's slant. CR is a rag and has been irrelevant for decades. My mother is the only person I know who reads that POS rag, and she bought a CR-V last year!

There is stupid cost cutting and then there is 'downsizing.' GM has to 'downsize' from the glory days of 40% market share - THAT IS THEIR BIGGEST CHALLENGE. Well, that and having so-called writers like this CNN bone-head chopped up and thrown in the same bag with Jimmy Hoffa.

GM has been profitable IN EVERY SINGLE MARKET ON THE PLANET, except N. America because it has gone from 45% to sub-20% market share.

Does this bone-head think that is simple? Poof - you just wave a magic wand and all the dealers, contracts, labor deals that were designed for the glory days of the '80s just go away?

At least from where I am now I can sit back and watch North America implode. I don't want to gloat, but every single person who buys a Toyota or Honda deserves everything that is coming. My mother boo-hoos to my sisters that she has lost a quarter mil in her investments. Drive your CR-V much?

:fryingpan:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GXT, I felt the same way about some of the valid points, but I still think that while GM messed up killing the EV1, they did the right thing in building the hybrid Buses that are running all over Seattle and we now no longer have that black smoke and messy smell. Over all the busses here handle far more traffic than the few hybrid auto's but then the average consumer thinks in terms of personal selfishness and wants something only for themselves.

I do agree with you about the Volt, I wonder how many people will really buy a 40K vehicle like this.

Keeping the baby Duramax Diesel alive and into trucks and SUV's with mid to upper 20's for gas milage would make more money for GM than the Volt will.

I agree they should have kept the EV1 going.

The buses in and of themselves would have been fine. But GM sold them as an either/or situation in relation to hybrid cars, which was false. They actually used them as justification NOT to have a hybrid car, and to say anyone making a hybrid car was acting improperly.

They also claimed, as you do now, that a bus uses more fuel than a car. While that is certainly true, one has to look at the numbers on the road. This was the most recent info I could find:

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2008/...s_for_hybr.html

As you can see, GM had only 1,000 buses on the road by the time Toyota had sold about 1,000,000 Prius. So while a hybrid bus may save more fuel than a hybrid car, it will not make up that difference of scale... especially given the mediocre results that GM's production buses gave as compared to non-hybrid new buses. More importantly for GM now, if they had focused on hybrid cars they might have a profitable car instead of what is probably a money losing bus (given those volumes). Plus I doubt they would have suckered themselves into the Volt if they had a competitive hybrid car.

I see hybrid buyers unfairly demonized on this board all the time. But it is interesting that you consider buying a hybrid selfish.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a douchebag article, cherry picking facts that suit the author's slant. CR is a rag and has been irrelevant for decades. My mother is the only person I know who reads that POS rag, and she bought a CR-V last year!

I read it. I'm not sure I would go with a CR-V, but it sounds like she made a better-than-average choice.

It is still too early to say, but we're actually leaning more to the Venza right now. I'd rather not buy a Toyota, but Honda doesn't seem competitive in the 4cyl/4WD segment... especially if you want leather.

Did you actually read the article?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I read it. I'm not sure I would go with a CR-V, but it sounds like she made a better-than-average choice.

It is still too early to say, but we're actually leaning more to the Venza right now. I'd rather not buy a Toyota, but Honda doesn't seem competitive in the 4cyl/4WD segment... especially if you want leather.

Did you actually read the article?

Yes, I read the article. Do you actually give a damn if your kids have jobs, other than working at Wal-Mart or McDonald's? Or if there is any money left in North America to pay for your retirement?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The article DOES have a few points, the main one I got which I agree upon being

One of the oldest laws in business is that you can't cost-cut your way to prosperity.

The biggest thing with any of the domestics IN MY OPINION is the IMAGE. The media seems to like to push an "import superiority" image as far as vehicles go, and until the domestics can break through that I think they are all in for a tough time. The public PERCEPTION is just as important as the PRODUCT.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The company I am really worried about is Chrysler.

I think the new LXs are going to be important, but the Chrysler lineup is pretty danged impressive of late IMO. The base entry level cars are the only wart..

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bad cost-cutting ideas, poor efficiency and lousy cars - it's going to take a lot more than the Volt to save General Motors.

LMFAO... Well, one need not be bright ( no brighter than tha author at least) to see exactly how this author feels.

For one thing, GM isn't as clever as Toyota ™ and Honda about sharing parts among different models. According to an analysis of platform efficiency by CSM Worldwide, a Detroit-based forecasting and consulting firm, Toyota makes an average of 406,000 cars from each basic architecture, while Honda gets an amazing 509,000 cars. Higher volume means lower costs per car. So when GM by comparison, spins out a mere 350,000 units, it can't hope to save as much.

Okay, so 1) all that talk the media has been spewing out of it's ass about GM having 8 different divisions that sell the same cars must've been in naught, I guess? and 2) We're REALLY going to make this the 'lead bitch' over a difference of 56K cars in a 13 MILLION vehicle market? (Who cares about Honda, they're not the one's eating GM's lunch right now. If GM positions itself to better combat Toyota, it'll have Honda licked anyway)

Nor does GM run its plants as efficiently. When last measured by CSM, GM was operating at just 73% capacity, while Toyota was at 86% and Honda at 93%. Plants carry lots of fixed costs and burn a lot of cash when they aren't running at full speed.

Yet, according to Harbour, GM has had some of the most efficient plants in the world for a decade now?

BUT most importantly, GM just doesn't make very good cars and trucks. In Consumer Reports' latest scorecard on automaker performance, the automaker ranked 14th out of 15, or next to last. Only Chrysler scored worse.

We're basing this solely on +/- 1 million responses (if CR was lucky) from a VERY dedicated reader base, not the market itself, in a 13 million vehicle market. :rolleyes: (Yes, I do realize that the average american is stupid enough NOT to figure all of that out on their own)

It is true that GM gets pulled down by some of its older models, Consumer Reports points out. But it's been making cars for 101 years. Shouldn't all its models be at least competitive?

And we ALL know that the design and engineering of a car hasn't changed AT ALL in 101 years, right?!?!

For another thing, GM has also been pursuing a disastrously wrong-headed development policy on hybrids. While the automaker was working on systems for low-volume trucks and buses with no consumer visibility, Toyota and Honda were building popular-priced hybrids that average people could actually buy.

Trucks = no consumer visibility when 55% of the market sold last year was trucks? Hmmm... Not to mention, trucks can benefit the most and make the most sesne for this technology. As for the buses... Nah... Those don't matter at ALL. It's not like they run their engines in stop and go, urban traffic for 12 hours a day or anything. :rolleyes:

And the "average person" can afford a Prius? (as a primary means of transportation) I think not.

GM's current contender in that race is the most popular version of the Chevy Cobalt, which gets 25 mpg with a conventional engine. Meanwhile, the company is imploring everybody who will listen to wait for its $40,000 Chevy Volt, a so-called "range-extended" electric vehicle due 18 months from now. The Volt has flashy mileage numbers but is very expensive and will have limited utility for most drivers.

Except, the Cobalt XFE gets 36 MPG... And I love how he called the estimated 100mpg rating of the Volt (READ: the average urbanite will NEVER need gas again) "so-called... flashy" The Volt will never get the respect it deserves... It's too innovative for "an american company" so the media will botch the article (like this) to reduce it's significance in the eyes of the consumer.

How it is going to make its product development more responsive to actual customer needs.

Last time I checked, GM was still the top selling automaker in america and ALMOST, after YEARS of domination, the top selling automaker in the world. What esle do you want?

And how to reform its distribution system to better serve customers.

Eliminate dealers... Like it said it was going to do 4 months ago.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At least from where I am now I can sit back and watch North America implode. I don't want to gloat, but every single person who buys a Toyota or Honda deserves everything that is coming. My mother boo-hoos to my sisters that she has lost a quarter mil in her investments. Drive your CR-V much?

+1

I'm loving watching "Rome" burn... And I'd love to throw some gas on the flames if I could.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The article DOES have a few points, the main one I got which I agree upon being

The biggest thing with any of the domestics IN MY OPINION is the IMAGE. The media seems to like to push an "import superiority" image as far as vehicles go, and until the domestics can break through that I think they are all in for a tough time. The public PERCEPTION is just as important as the PRODUCT.

Let me tell you a little story. In late 1988 I bought a house. In fact, if you look up the real estate guide for Ontario, you will see a picture of that house as the LAST HOUSE BOUGHT BEFORE THE REAL ESTATE CRASH OF '89/90. <_< I paid $145,000 for this house. Two years later, I hated the house, hated the money I was pouring into it, YADDA, YADDA, YADDA. So, I decided to sell it. Now, I knew I was going to LOSE money - but how much money did I WANT to lose? Ever ask yourself that question, when you know pain is coming? So, expert advice told me to list it for $139,900. Nothing. $136,000. Nothing. Nearly 18 months went by and no nibbles. Finally, I fired the real estate agent and got another. Her first words were,"Do you want to sell this house?" Verdict: listed it for $119,900 and it sold in 3 weeks. There is no way I would have believed, 18 months earlier, that I was going to have to lose $26k (plus interest and the money I poured into it.) No way I would have accepted that.

The moral of the story is, with a committee of 1 (plus my parents who had ponied up the mortgage in the first place), I could not decide where the market was going to bottom out. I was going to lose my shirt, but would I be able to keep my arms and legs at least?

Now multiply this by what was once a $200b a year auto company that commanded every market it dipped it's tows into. With all the committees, VPs, Presidents, members on the Board, unions and over a quarter million employees (world-wide) - HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU DECIDE WHERE THE BALL WILL FINALLY COME TO REST?

It had to come to this, sadly. This is the way that democracies work, and how American corporations that have to deal with an impatient, selfish WallStreet have to work. Wagoner & the boys have been cutting out fat for 8 years. They were also harmonizing the products, increasing the quality and making the cars more desireable. But there is no way to deal with the mess that unfolded in the past 18 months, nor could anyone have gone to the UAW or parts suppliers or dealers 3 years ago and said, "We're going to have 15% market share and this is what we need you to give up," and reasonably expect to keep their jobs.

It is easy to plan for sales increases, even for modest dips, but the American car market was waaay too insular for far too long. Most of the people on C&G have never ventured beyond America's borders to see what others are driving, so how could the Detroit marketing mavens of 15 years ago seen this coming? 15% market share is nothing to be ashamed of, but how do you cut from 45% share to 15%? Has any other company in history had to do that? And it's not like GM has crashed - it has only done so in North America. Everywhere else, it is doing fantasically well, relative to the world market today.

No, I believe it is going to take a hard kick in the balls for ALL North Americans to truly appreciate what they once had.

That is why I am here and not there. I saw this coming years ago.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What jackass wrote this drivel?

And who is "CSM", anyway?

Nevermind.

I don't want to know.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The story is a load of crap.

While GM does and has had problems they have also done many things right.

GM each of the last few years has offfered new cars that are as good and in some cases better than many of the imports.

They offer many efficent cars that they get no credit for.

They may not get as many cars off of one platform as they offer a wider veriety of cars that can not share the same platform. In other words sold real truck not trucks built on car platforms that claim to be trucks.

The EV-1 one would have never flown and blown up in GM face. That car was a prototype that the was not proven for long term use. If you had to buy it verse lease would have cost too much for the market at that time and if you had to repair it you would aboandon it. The odds of the car not living up to expectations were great and if it fail GM would have been put on the cross for it.

Lets face it the little electric Honda was not a hit in the cold states due to it poor winter driving and limited life of the battery. I have seen more Vega's on the road in the last year than the Honda Electric cars.

GM has has a rough road to prove it is making good cars while dealing with high production cost and then add poor timing with high gas prices and the economy.

GM today has some of the best engines and transmissions in the industry.

I am not a Roswell kind of guy but I do feel there are people that are bent to see our country fail. You see it in the actions of many powerful people in different areas. Some in the press, Industry, entertainment and even goverment.

They all claim to be for the good old USA but their actions speak otherwise. They always want to just run down what is wrong and never support what is right. Some claim to do it for the envoiroment and some claim to do it for our freedom or general welfare. The truth is they do more damage to our country than help.

Better to give a hand to someone who is down and support them vs just keep stepping on them to keep them down. In other words give as much credit as you can vs just pointing out the flaws.

The media and goverment need to take action in the way of where can we help vs just keep on kicking them.

Together we stand devided we will fail and fall. Form Rome to Russia in history amny giants have fallen. Many will reget us when we fail but it will be too late by then.

Edited by hyperv6
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too much negativity in the news about everything these days... I've sworn off listening/watching the news for a while...just need to focus on the important stuff

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I especially liked this, as it was one of GM's most boneheaded moves, and something I raised here years ago (and took quite some C&G flack for it):

"While the automaker was working on systems for low-volume trucks and buses with no consumer visibility, Toyota and Honda were building popular-priced, but money losing, hybrids that average people could actually buy all the while turning out new gas guzzling SUVs like the Tundra, Sequoia, Armada, QX, and the Ridgeline, which despite it's relatively diminutive size gets the same fuel economy as a much more capable Chevy Avalanche"

Fixed that up there for ya.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of your best C&G posts ever, Hyper.

:bowdown:

I agree. Oldsmoboi's edit wasn't bad either.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of that article is true. GM doesn't have one 40 or 50 mpg car. GM has a few stars, but more G5's and Torrents than CTS's and Corvette's. And I also noticed that in GM's 100 page plan they talked a lot about how to cut costs, but never mentioned how they would raise revenue and profit margin. GM has to get better, they need better products and fast. SRX/Equinox for example are not good enough. Ford had the Edge and MKX 2 years ago, Toyota had the Highlander and RX 5-10 years ago, GM's offerings are essentially the same, just a few years late. GM hasn't done anything uniquely different to leap in front of the competition, they are still chasing, and as long as they chase, they will keep losing buyers.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of that article is true. GM doesn't have one 40 or 50 mpg car. GM has a few stars, but more G5's and Torrents than CTS's and Corvette's. And I also noticed that in GM's 100 page plan they talked a lot about how to cut costs, but never mentioned how they would raise revenue and profit margin. GM has to get better, they need better products and fast. SRX/Equinox for example are not good enough. Ford had the Edge and MKX 2 years ago, Toyota had the Highlander and RX 5-10 years ago, GM's offerings are essentially the same, just a few years late. GM hasn't done anything uniquely different to leap in front of the competition, they are still chasing, and as long as they chase, they will keep losing buyers.

Edit: "...in my humble opinion."

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
f@#k those people. Our 3.5L V6 Chevy Impala gets 40MPG Hwy and our 2.2L Cobalt gets 45MPG hwy and, news flash, They're NOT LOUSY.

:yes::bowdown:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0