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loki

cliffside!!!

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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123299459

Construction crews are battling the Pacific Ocean to save a cliff-top apartment building in Pacifica, a San Francisco suburb. It's the kind of scenario likely to occur up and down the West coast in years to come, as climate change and rising sea levels threaten oceanfront properties.

WTF?!!!! i'm sure that was happening before.... 100 years ago, and will happen 500 years from now... it's not our fault. :facepalm:

*trying to keep this apolitical*

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Honestly, thats what you get for building on a seaside cliff.

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Only way to win is to move the homes and brace up the apartments. Don't mess with mother nature she wins always. Kinda like building & rebuilding in a flood plane :fryingpan::rolleyes:

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*places bet on the Pacific Ocean winning..... eventually*

i agree. it's much larger and stronger than anything we've ever done... haha

maybe they should replace all the dirt with diamond material. LOL

i sent an email reporting my complaints.... maybe they'll read it on air friday...?> lol

Edited by loki
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Reminds me of the 'brilliant' people here who build huge houses on the sides of mountains and then 'can't believe their eyes' when it rains hard and the house slides off.

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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123299459

WTF?!!!! i'm sure that was happening before.... 100 years ago, and will happen 500 years from now... it's not our fault. :facepalm:

*trying to keep this apolitical*

Look at some aerial photography--those buildings, when built, were far from the cliffside. Erosion has been pretty bad around there.

Another area with similar issues is the Isla Vista neighborhood right by UC Santa Barbara. There, they used to have a really wide beach between the sea cliffs and the ocean, but after a La Nina in the late 70s, the beach got washed away and now many of the buildings are overhanging the edge of the cliff.

Now let's put on our thinking caps here--of COURSE this has happened in the past and happened naturally. What's at issue is the acceleration due to climate change. To act like we, humans, are completely blameless in this is just asinine and ignorant. Given this situation, what are we going to do about it? That's the real test of humanity--how are we going to solve these problems? Burying our heads in the sand like ostriches pretending it doesn't exist isn't going to solve anything.

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Oh settle down. It's irreversible and it is not our fault. Can we stop the wind from blowing? The sun from shining? The waves from pounding? Noooooooo, sparky.

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Oh settle down. It's irreversible and it is not our fault. Can we stop the wind from blowing? The sun from shining? The waves from pounding? Noooooooo, sparky.

Asinine and ignorant. The atmosphere is made up of many gases, and they interact and react with each other, ultraviolet radiation, and water. Increases in ozone-eating gases allow more UV light to pass through to earth, leading to increased levels of sunlight intensity. This can cause more evaporation from water on the ground. Gases in the air interact/react with UV light forming compounds that retain heat in the atmosphere--the "greenhouse effect." The reason "global warming" has given way to "climate change" is because it isn't just warming that takes place--scientists have figured out that excessive carbon outputs have thrown off equilibrium, and while warming effects have been observed, it seems frequency and intensity of weather events has been increasing as well. This makes sense when you think about it--the environment is a system, and a change in one part, like heat levels, has logical consequences like increased evaporation. What does this cause? It's unfolding like a domino effect, but we don't yet know with certainty what the end results of these chain reactions will be--but what has been observed over decades is that certain meteorological phenomena are increasing in frequency and intensity.

Check out how dramatic it's been; cliffside hasn't changed in 40 years:

<a href="http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=9792"><img src="http://www.historicaerials.com/featuredPOIImage.aspx?poi=9792" /></a>

<a href="http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=9793"><img src="http://www.historicaerials.com/featuredPOIImage.aspx?poi=9793" /></a>

<a href="http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=9794"><img src="http://www.historicaerials.com/featuredPOIImage.aspx?poi=9794" /></a>

Go to Bing Maps aerial photography and see what it looked like in most of 2009.

Additionally, this video shows some birds-eye views from news coverage of how, in the last few months, the cliffs have eroded:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Edited by Croc
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Croc your "scientists have figured out that excessive carbon outputs have thrown off equilibrium, and while warming effects have been observed, it seems frequency and intensity of weather events has been increasing as well.".... you are assuming we had equilibrium and that it would have continued without us. 1. this is not provable because this is not testable, 2. we are one large event, volcano, storm, or something away from throwing a wrench into a "equalized" earth.

placing blame on storms from "climate change"...do you believe the scientists have a crystal ball and know what is going to happen, and know somehow it would not have happened either next year or 2 years in the future anyway? part of this seems like Schrodinger's cat but you can know the outcome based on computer simulations without actually doing the test. that is not science.

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I still can't figure how anyone can see the amount of crap we humans have spewed into the air and water over the past 200 years and not think is has any effect on speeding up the natural processes of the Earth.

Humans aren't the only cause - we are just speeding some things up. - That is something that most scientists do believe.

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I still can't figure how anyone can see the amount of crap we humans have spewed into the air and water over the past 200 years and not think is has any effect on speeding up the natural processes of the Earth.

Humans aren't the only cause - we are just speeding some things up. - That is something that most scientists do believe.

you mean like even the "systems" to combat the change?

"Forests Are Growing Faster, Ecologists Discover; Climate Change Appears to Be Driving Accelerated Growth"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100201171641.htm

i saw an article a while ago about how air pollution (haze formers) increased how fast trees grew too, cause of the increase in light at all angles.

sadly our wetlands do need to be revitalized, and our waterways need to have fewer harmful obstacles placed by us, like dams.

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:soapbox: The whole existence of man's pollution would be like the tip of a pin compared to Mt Everest, in relation to just the smallest volcano outburst. No man is just part of this Earth and in noway is controlling the weather anymore than the dinosaurs did. Cow's aren't anymore burdensome than the bison were. Sun spot cycles are more the controller than anything. :soapbox: Getting down now
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you mean like even the "systems" to combat the change?

"Forests Are Growing Faster, Ecologists Discover; Climate Change Appears to Be Driving Accelerated Growth"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100201171641.htm

i saw an article a while ago about how air pollution (haze formers) increased how fast trees grew too, cause of the increase in light at all angles.

sadly our wetlands do need to be revitalized, and our waterways need to have fewer harmful obstacles placed by us, like dams.

Yeah I agree in the whole clean-up and all but in relation to the problems at hand. I'm a hunter and the forest is my backyard if ya know what I mean.

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:soapbox: The whole existence of man's pollution would be like the tip of a pin compared to Mt Everest, in relation to just the smallest volcano outburst. No man is just part of this Earth and in noway is controlling the weather anymore than the dinosaurs did. Cow's aren't anymore burdensome than the bison were. Sun spot cycles are more the controller than anything. :soapbox: Getting down now

actually bison are better, they leave the grasses' roots and saliva helps the grasses heal and regrow., pretty sure cows don't, for erosion's sake... if we could only harness cows methane production... lol

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you mean like even the "systems" to combat the change?

"Forests Are Growing Faster, Ecologists Discover; Climate Change Appears to Be Driving Accelerated Growth"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100201171641.htm

i saw an article a while ago about how air pollution (haze formers) increased how fast trees grew too, cause of the increase in light at all angles.

sadly our wetlands do need to be revitalized, and our waterways need to have fewer harmful obstacles placed by us, like dams.

Doesn't help much at all when you consider the deforestation rates around the world.

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Croc your "scientists have figured out that excessive carbon outputs have thrown off equilibrium, and while warming effects have been observed, it seems frequency and intensity of weather events has been increasing as well.".... you are assuming we had equilibrium and that it would have continued without us. 1. this is not provable because this is not testable, 2. we are one large event, volcano, storm, or something away from throwing a wrench into a "equalized" earth.

Um, yes, that's common sense...including the common sense that this is limited to the industrial and post-industrial eras. That's not that long ago, and is a quite testable hypothesis.

===========================

Let's talk about those volcanoes, too, while we're at it. How often do volcanoes erupt? How often do big eruptions occur? What do we know about large eruptions...that they have altered earth's climate for years following? Oh, yea, that's right. Now think about all those sudden carbon emissions and how long it takes for things to go "back to normal" following an event. Now compare that to a sustained, daily pollution of carbon from factories all around the world. How many years of global factories would it take to equal a single, moderate volcanic eruption?

These are the questions to consider. But to assert that there is no effects on climate from pollution just shows such a fundamental ignorance of basic knowledge and scientific principles.

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:soapbox: The whole existence of man's pollution would be like the tip of a pin compared to Mt Everest, in relation to just the smallest volcano outburst. No man is just part of this Earth and in noway is controlling the weather anymore than the dinosaurs did. Cow's aren't anymore burdensome than the bison were. Sun spot cycles are more the controller than anything. :soapbox: Getting down now

All you've proposed is that we're slower than volcanos but can do just the same amount of damage.

A fire can destroy your house in 10 minutes. Termites take 10 years. Either way, in the end you still have a destroyed house.

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All you've proposed is that we're slower than volcanos but can do just the same amount of damage.

A fire can destroy your house in 10 minutes. Termites take 10 years. Either way, in the end you still have a destroyed house.

So... your suggesting we can stop volcanos? Or regulate the sun? The climate is going to change... perhaps our released greenhouse gases have staved off a disasterous ice age? We don't know.

Hey, instead of worrying about the BS global warming, why don't we look back to the cleaning up the pacific ocean trash dump or fixing up the toxic disasters on the DEP superfund list... or perhaps try to stop the pollution attrocities being done in third world nations as we outsource our trash reclaimation to places with lax environmental law?

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Doesn't help much at all when you consider the deforestation rates around the world.

well if you think we have the authority to go into another country and force that to end... we also have a military that puts out more emissions than the autos on our highways, and bombs and politics reducing productive land that could feed or just help people in general.

Hey, instead of worrying about the BS global warming, why don't we look back to the cleaning up the pacific ocean trash dump or fixing up the toxic disasters on the DEP superfund list... or perhaps try to stop the pollution attrocities being done in third world nations as we outsource our trash reclaimation to places with lax environmental law?

yes. we need to clean up our own act before getting into anyone else's business, that goes from litter, to legalizing such pollution because of the EPA, something that doesn't have the authority to do what it is doing most times.

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So... your suggesting we can stop volcanos? Or regulate the sun? The climate is going to change... perhaps our released greenhouse gases have staved off a disasterous ice age? We don't know.

Bull. If we just staved off an ice age then we would be MAINTAINING climates instead of watching the polar ice caps disintegrate at a rapidly increasing pace.

Hey, instead of worrying about the BS global warming, why don't we look back to the cleaning up the pacific ocean trash dump or fixing up the toxic disasters on the DEP superfund list... or perhaps try to stop the pollution attrocities being done in third world nations as we outsource our trash reclaimation to places with lax environmental law?

False substitution.

well if you think we have the authority to go into another country and force that to end... we also have a military that puts out more emissions than the autos on our highways, and bombs and politics reducing productive land that could feed or just help people in general.

Huh? We just need to join the rest of the developed world in beginning to regulate this stuff. Your assertion--that because we cannot police the rest of the world, we should do nothing ourselves--is just asinine.

Seriously, the irony--that I, a "socialist" Democrat, am arguing for climate change legislation to protect existing individual property rights from accelerated environmental forces at the hands of collective man against a self-proclaimed "Libertarian"--is not lost on me.

Edited by Croc
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Huh? We just need to join the rest of the developed world in beginning to regulate this stuff. Your assertion--that because we cannot police the rest of the world, we should do nothing ourselves--is just asinine.

did you miss my comment on SAmedei's comment? i'm assuming you did....

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Best thing to do is give up all technological advances man has made in the last 200 years. Then it will only take us 200 years to return the earth to her pristine state.

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