Cadillac CTS Sales are Down 41% in 2015

[balthazar]

Did I not see Maybach 2.0 interior pics with CLOTH upholstery?? 

[oldshurst442]

 

Keeping those base cloth trim, 2.4 liter engines etc is like old GM.  When you could get a Buick or Pontiac for the same price as a Chevy pretty much.   The Buick base model should basically be like the Chevy LTZ, then Buick can still offer a trim above that to set themselves apart.

 

 

The Lacrosse was marketed and designed to be an alternative to the Lexus ES350. At the time of its release.. the ES350 featured Cloth seats. It made the move to "Nuluxe" imitation leather for the 2012 model year. Frankly.. I think cloth seats SHOULD be an option in ANY class. I think that limiting choices is not luxury. Yes.. that means that if a person wants.. WANTS cloth seats in their Mercedes S-Class they should be able to order them. Perhaps to keep it premium.. they should all return to having Velour on the menu

 

Let me tell U.. this $h! was COMFY.. and U never slid down. I once took a girl out in my uncle's 75 Fleetwood... This was in 1988.. and she let me do things to her that a 16 year shouldn't even kno existed all because she sat back there and said "wow.. these seats are so soft..." 

 

 

You in your 1975 Fleetwood and me in my 1985 Oldsmobile Delta 88 in the mid '90s.

OK...so I was a tad older than 16 at the time, but I was smart enough to know.

 

And Im short. So was she. And we were  so hot for each other, the front seats saw the action. I love me some bench seats. But that is for another discussion at a later time.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

The thing is that Wings U are wanting Lincoln to be something it is not.. to compete where it doesn't. U wish Lincoln to be seen as an alternative to the #1 Luxury brand, currently Benz, when it is not. It would be like me trying to compare a Cadillac with a Rolls. Once upon a time, but not in my life-time or yours. Buick on the other hand can be called Premium with no red-flags being raised. It is a premium brand.. as is Lincoln. Lincoln, nor Buick have't have the cachet, the platforms, or even the wherewithal to be mentioned in the same sentence as Benz, BMW, Audi, or even its origins sister, Cadillac. Lexus.. because of the LS, GS, and LX have a real claim to being luxury..  Cadillac is aspiring to be what it once was WITH actual cars that fit the bill. Are luxury buyers jumping ship from the Germans to experience it in droves.. not yet. Much of this is Cadillac's own damn fault.. and has nothing to do with the cars it HAS, but the cars it DOESN'T.

 

 

BUICK.. and Lincoln are EXACTLY the same business model. In fact,. if GM and Ford were to ever merge... it would be these two names that would have to be decided upon which to keep.. not Cadillac. 

 

 

Lincoln's damage currently is much worse than that which was Cadillac's back in 2002. Facts:

 

In 2002 when the CTS debuted:

 

1) Cadillac was looked upon as a "older, snooty, people brand" but not damaged. The issue was that Benz, Caddy's truest competitor at the time (Not BMW) was moving towards the BMW model with SPORT/LUX while Cadillac was still pushing Luxo-Floaty rides like the Deville.

 

2) Cadillac,ironically, followed the Lincoln idea in '98 with the Escalade intro instantly bringing youth into the brand.. 

 

3) The CTS was so polarizing as a Cadillac that it instantly peaked interest from people who would otherwise pass it by. 

 

4) The Intro of the XLR, SRX, and new STS was icing on the cake. The fact that none of those vehicles survived the real change at Cadillac.. 2009's BK, was quite possibly part of the plan.

 

5) Cadillac actually has had unique attributes that none of the other GM vehicles have had. Sure the Escalade shares with the Tahoe and Yukon.. but it is truly elevated in a way that I have to turn my head away when an Escalade pulls side by side.. especially a Platinum. Engine.. AWD.. Looks.. Interior.. Suspension... brand Cachet... It also shared with Saab... the BLS/9-3 and the SRX/9-4.. but neither ever made it here to it's main market. 

 

On to Buick...

 

Buick was EXACTLY where Lincoln is... in 2007 when the Enclave appeared... but only in the United States. Buick has the advantage of China.. and interesting enuff Opel (Side Note: Buick is the largest reason why GM does not want to kill Opel). Personally I love the way GM has handled the Buick brand... and its sales in the US are seriously coming up in a way that I'm betting many pre-BK execs did not expect. I mean there was debate on whether it.. or Pontiac should have survived. Of course Lincoln does not have Buick's clout in China.. it does not have Opel (Europe)... it only has the United States of which last year it didn't even brake 95K sales. Buick on the other hand sold 228K in the US.. and 1.1 Million abroad, mostly in China last year.  IN FACT... Buick is inadvertently keeping Opel alive thru out this shared.. by Ford, GM(Opel), and Fiat Euro issue. Buick... with VERANO.. ENCORE.. REGAL (yup Regal) LaCrosse.. and Enclave are killing... My only issue really stems from why isn't Buick pushing the full line-up on Opel.. and vice versa. Who wouldn't love to see an Astra OPC here in the U.S.?

 

Observations from the last NYIAS revealed a weird dynamic in the Big Apple.. GM somehow had made Buicks as buzz worthy as Lexus.. Point of fact. . there were actually more people sitting in Buick's Encore.. Regal, LaX, Enclave, and Verano than their closest counterparts at Lexus. The Enclave was a curious thing.. as I heard several people commenting on its size.. and essentially how it had a more luxo interior than the RX, but with more space. 

 

The HARD PART 

 

This is not a congratulatory to Cadillac, Buick, or GM. They still have a lot of work to do. BUt it is a reality check to Lincoln and Ford... 

 

I kno it is very hard to have a legitimate discussion with some of U in the thread because many impose such an asinine look on everything said about Ford that it moots the original objective of me, the OP. 

 

That being said.. I am not trying to offend or belittle Lincoln. Point of fact I am offering a way in which it could survive the market turbulence it is experiencing by, ironically because of your statement, "NOT offer(ing) products that start at $23,080." Quite frankly they should!!! Having their entry level starting above Cadillac's.. BMW's... and even Benzes'... is UNBELIEVABLE. I was discussing it with a friend the other day.. and quite frankly that brand strategy automatically limits their sales to that 6K-7K monthly they are at now. SOme tout it like some sort of pride.. that because Ford believes that Lincoln is a $37K-$70K commander... the actual buyer does too. It does not.. and YES.. sales speak volumes to that. This is the one segment where sales are completely relevant to the desirability of the vehicle. Only in the super-Luxo status of limited Bentley, Rolls, and Porsche non-Sports cars can limited sales be immune. A Full-Line Luxo builder??? Sales are an indicator of desirability. Right now.. in the U.S. at least.. BMW, Benz, and Lexus are supreme in that regard.. but Cadillac.. finally with proper product is coming on strong. They need marketing. They need MORE of that product. Cadillac and Lincoln currently have the EXACT same amount of names... yet Cadillac at a higher ATP is selling almost 10K more per month.. with that so-called "handicap" Buick selling 15K as well. GM was smart as hell with this strategy.. because if gets to service customers who want luxo.. but at a slightly lessor price. Despite the Verano starting at $23K.. it is ATPing at closer to $30K In a tiered strategy the Buick brand should STOP.. where Caddy begins. Profits soar. Hence the reason why VW wanted Porsche despite Audi... 

 

Cadillac is now able to offer a $100K Omega.. or $200K Cien... This is the flaw of Lexus. They are a tweener trying to sell the consumer on a $100K LS460h and a $400K LF-A on the same showroom floor as an ES350.. that has the same engine.. EXACTLY The same engine as the Camry. No options.. just that. Yes an ATS has the 2.5L from the Malibu in it.. but it is an OPTIONAL engine. The ES has no options. Not to mention the ATS and Malibu/Regal have virtually nothing else in common. Same can't be said for the Camry/ES.. nor the Fusion/MKZ  

 

I don't know where to go with this casa.  You seem to be continuing a lot of previous discussions from other sites I think.  All I have said here regarding Lincoln, is repeated what everyone knows, that they are building the brand and that they are moving upscale a bit in coming years, while also straddling higher volume, entry level segments and everything in between.  I did not compare them to anyone, other than to state they are hardly in a hard place as some keep repeating, with continued sales gains that can soon be counted in years, not months.  Small gains, but nonetheless.

 

And my other remark, was that Ford's premium trim strategy, which they continue to grow with Platinum spreading across segments, in addition to Vignale in Europe, is to offer choice and compete with lessor luxury brands, like Buick. You can disagree with that, and dissect the strategies 10 ways to Sunday, but customers don't and won't.  A $50K sedan or $60K CUV is what they see.

 

Anyway, back to the topic, Cadillac's struggles.

 

 

 

Vignale is Mercury is Titanium. Lincoln better hope Vignale name doesn't come to NA, because unless Lincoln radically changes.. Vignale will drop Lincoln sales down to 1,000 per month.. until DEAD. Ford really will be ONE Ford

 

We are now debating whether Lincoln is a Buick competitor. I'm not the only one think this either as per the thread responses. 

 

Top Tier- Super Luxury

 

Rolls

Bentley

Aston (are they even still making cars?)

Maybach (Dead tho)

Benz Pullman

 

Tier 2- Luxury (no particular order)

Benz

Porsche

Maserati

BMW

Audi

Cadillac

Jag/LR

Lexus

 

Tier 3- Premium (no particular order)

 

Lincoln

Buick/GMC

Corvette (I kno I kno)

Volvo

Infiniti

Acura   

[Cmicasa the Great]

Dave it is kind of pointless to say much on the CTS at this point for several reasons.

One the advertising and marketing is being transformed as we speak. They put the spot light on the CT6 in the first installments and right now the ATS V next up will be the CTSV soon that should put a spot light on the entire model line.

Second the is going to be replaced as well as the ATS once the flag ship gets here. This was stated by Cadillac not long ago.

This hopefully will replace the similarities of each model.

 

Third the real key is as long as they are making money volume is not so much a question. It was made clear that Cadillac was no longer a volume brand and with the increased prices the focus was not on selling more car but more expensive cars to make a profit. We are not provided with these numbers. Note too that a 10% drop in sales in hundreds of cars not thousands.

 

I really do not think things are in that much peril yet and we just need to let the new team complete their transformation before we can judge where they are at.

 

As I have pointed out in this segment you do not have to be the volume sales leader to win. It is all about profits. Sell too many cars for the wrong reasons and you can damage your image if your products are in the wrong hands. This is the Rolex segment not the Timex.

 

 

Part of the issue is that BMW and Benz are selling 30K per month.. albeit using lower end items and massive amounts of options. Again.. because why type it when I said before:

 

 

Here is the real problem, and again, UNBELIEVABLE that  GM would manufacturer as many ATS in sedan only form and expect people to simply buy. I can't buy an ATSV or CTS-V yet. I can't buy an ATS wagon.. I can't buy a CTS Wagon.. I can't buy an ATS Convertible.. I can't buy a ATS or CTS diesel.. I can't even if I wanted to.. so instead of building those models for consumption.. GM builds too many Sedans of each with no variants. That doesn't even include the fact that U cannot buy an AWD model across the board. No AWD in VSport or upcoming VSeries. Not a huge thing for me, but U would sell more vehicles in Snowbelt if they had it.

Anyone not believing me.. or who can't see what I'm saying.. just LOOK:   

328diesel Sedan

328diesel xDrive Sedan

3series Sedan

3series xDrive Sedan

ActiveHybrid 3

3series xDrive Sports Wagon

3series xDrive Sports Wagon

3series diesel xDrive Gran Turismo

3series xDrive Gran Turismo

M3

vs 

ATS Sedan

ATS-V (Not even here yet)

4Series Coupe

4Series xDrive Coupe

4Series Gran Coupe

4Series xDrive Gran Coupe

4Series Convertible

4Series xDrive Convertible

M4

vs 

ATS Coupe

ATS-V Coupe (Not even here yet)

******************************

5Series Sedan

5Series xDrive Sedan

535diesel Sedan

535diesel xDrive Sedan

ActiveHybrid 5

5Series Gran Turismo

5Series xDrive Gran Turismo

M5

vs 

CTS Sedan

CTS-V (not even here yet)   

[smk4565]

What may hurt Cadillac is doing the "Dare Greatly" ads that are just Cadillac brand ads, but don't focus on any particular vehicle. Perhaps they don't want to advertise the ATS and CTS names because they are dumping them.

But I still see dedicated E-class ads and it is in its 6th model year. They didn't give up on advertising it because it is an old model. And GM often advertises the heck out of new cars then forgets about them after 2 years (with exception of pickups).

[Cmicasa the Great]

What may hurt Cadillac is doing the "Dare Greatly" ads that are just Cadillac brand ads, but don't focus on any particular vehicle. Perhaps they don't want to advertise the ATS and CTS names because they are dumping them.

But I still see dedicated E-class ads and it is in its 6th model year. They didn't give up on advertising it because it is an old model. And GM often advertises the heck out of new cars then forgets about them after 2 years (with exception of pickups).

 

 

I considered this as well. The ATS and CTS are done in 2 years basically. The new CT2 and CT4 will be being shown by next Fall. This is why in another thread I expressed that the ATS and CTS, the current ones, should have debuted with the new naming scheme since they were already gonna do it before JDN was even hired. It would have, most likely, killed a lot of the CTS buyer confusion as well. 

 

BTW.. I still expect the Escalade to get the "XT" treatment in 2019.. perhaps as a secondary name. "Escalade XT8" by Cadillac

[cp-the-nerd]

 

 

You know what's killing me here?  7 pages of brands this/brands that, yet I fail to see how they can fix CTS issue in general.

 

 

There is a reason why the car is not selling....and I'll start with two: 

 

1- Is it still here? (what advertising?)

 

2- ATS. Kinda makes the CTS pointless. BMW is a company, not a division like Caddy. You do not need to compete with them on every level. You move the product that sells......

 

I get it...I like the CTS-but I fail to see the point in it at the moment.....and guessing by the sales, I am not the only one........

 

Uhhh what..? The ATS is a compact, the CTS is midsize. Those are extremely common luxury car tiers:

 

Audi A4 and A6

Lexus IS and GS

MB C-class and E-class

Acura ILX and TLX

 

All Cadillac has to do is continue building its reputation, and yes advertising is an important part of that.

 

 

Fair enough....but-what does it really have going for it, say against the E class or the GS? It does have the looks (really growing on me now), but at least to me does not stand out in any huge way......

 

It's got something, because it was picked MT Car of the Year directly over the new 5 Series and E-Class. Exterior design and driving dynamics sealed the deal, for $60,000 the Vsport is a real powerhouse luxury-sport package. Next year with the upgraded powertrains and the full-on V-series, the CTS lineup will be world class across the board.

[hyperv6]

Cmicasa

 

I am on your side of the argument but what you posted to me does not wash.

Cadillac sells mostly sedans because that is mostly what sells.  Diesels for the most part are a non factor as long as Cadillac is not in Europe. Even AWD while a little more popular it is still a small part of the segment.

GM can not remake entire models in all variations at one time due to cost and man power. GM has as well as most other MFG have gone to spreading the cost out over several years with timed releases as well for marketing to keep interest in the brand. The first models out are always the largest sellers and the rest tend to be just fillers to the line.

 

Again you can not compare BMW and Benz to Cadillac head to head on volume as Cadillac may never sell more cars and even GM is ok with that. Now where they want to clean up is more profit per unit and how much money they make. They are kind of like Maserati as they will never out sell the two headed beast or Germany. But they can make a good healthy profit and laugh all the way to the bank.

Benz and BMW have to live on higher volumes as they have little to fall back on. Trucks, Rolls Mini and Smart cars but that is it. Development cost will really driver BMW to partner more with Toyota or other MFG in the future as they can go it alone. They want to remain autonomous but they will have to share cost. Benz has more leverage as they do a lot of lower priced models in other parts of the world and their trucks have been profitable.

 

Cadillac on the other hand can afford lower volumes too as GM can spread cost out with the volume of the other brands and their truck and SUV lines give them leverage few others have.

 

Audi has the many brands of VW right now and it appears they are carefully managing it by breaking them into smaller units to make it easier to manage and to make changes with market swings.

 

Right now I know GM really wanted to go to two divisions but I think three will work out much better than anyone ever considered in the long run. The real factor now is to get the new Buick models out and let them expand into the void between them and where Cadillac is going.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Having multiple brands that overlap only helps the customer, through more choices....not the profit or bottom line so much.  

[hyperv6]

It depends how you do it and that you move the brands to where they do not over lap.

As of now there is some overlap at GM because they have not fully completed the changes they are enacting. Now see in the next 5 years how Cadillac finally reaches the segment where they are going fully and Buick fills the void between Chevy and Cadillac. Only on the extreme ends will you see much overlap and it will be in the models of low volume as the top end models and the low end models only. The large segment of sales will be in the models that do not over lap.

 

On the other hand you have Ford trying to sell high priced Taurus and Fusions at prices few will pay for a Ford. Selling a Fusion for $40K is like selling a Malibu for $40K limited at best. Added profits for what you sell but not much volume.

 

No matter how you option it a Ford and Chevy are just that Fords and Chevy. Not much image and not all that much leading edge technology outside the performance models but a good value in the middle priced models.

 

My though if I see a doctor or lawyer driving a Ford or Chevy sedan is they are careful with their money, bad at what they do or still have a lot of student loans. None of which gives me that he is living the good life.

 

It is kind of like the guy who buys the Boxster. It screams I can't afford the 911 LOL!

Ford and Chevy are the value cars and no matter how much you tart up an Impala or Taurus they are still just that. Good cars for the money.

Edited June 17, 2015 by hyperv6

[smk4565]

I am sure GM wished they had more volume out of Cadillac.  Let's say hypothetically Chevy makes $1,000 per car profit, Buick and GMC $2,000 and Cadillac $4,000.  I'm sure they'd want to sell as many Cadillacs as possible, it has the best margin.  If Cadillac has terrible volume, that hurts GM's bottom line.

 

Before Cadillac gets their 5 year plan completed the new E-class will be here to lay the hurt on the CTS, A6 and GS.  They have a lot of new stuff in store, new inline six, electric turbos, autonomous drive, etc.

Edited June 17, 2015 by smk4565

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

There will always be overlap between a Buick and a Chevy.

GM would be wise to just shed Buick and bulk up the premium trim levels, if they want to prioritize shareholder return value.  Right now they are prioritizing being bigger. As if being 1st, 2nd 3rd or heck 5th matters. It don't.

[surreal1272]

There will always be overlap between a Buick and a Chevy.

GM would be wise to just shed Buick and bulk up the premium trim levels, if they want to prioritize shareholder return value.  Right now they are prioritizing being bigger. As if being 1st, 2nd 3rd or heck 5th matters. It don't.

They will not do that and it makes no sense to do that when Buick is killing the ever growing Asian market. That is just silliness.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Having multiple brands that overlap only helps the customer, through more choices....not the profit or bottom line so much.  

 

 

Tell it to Lincoln.. and Ford.. and watch as I did last year how GM's profits, despite the multi-billion $$$ recall allowed them to start realizing profits in the black more so than many years before. That being said.. Chevy has a great deal of profit in their cars and trucks.. GMC pads that even further.. as does Buick. Cadillac is the coup de grace.. its XTS, Escalade, and SRX are mints.. printing money to fund the Alpha and Omega platforms while they do their intended purpose.

[daves87rs]

Dave it is kind of pointless to say much on the CTS at this point for several reasons.

One the advertising and marketing is being transformed as we speak. They put the spot light on the CT6 in the first installments and right now the ATS V next up will be the CTSV soon that should put a spot light on the entire model line.

Second the is going to be replaced as well as the ATS once the flag ship gets here. This was stated by Cadillac not long ago.

This hopefully will replace the similarities of each model.

 

Third the real key is as long as they are making money volume is not so much a question. It was made clear that Cadillac was no longer a volume brand and with the increased prices the focus was not on selling more car but more expensive cars to make a profit. We are not provided with these numbers. Note too that a 10% drop in sales in hundreds of cars not thousands.

 

I really do not think things are in that much peril yet and we just need to let the new team complete their transformation before we can judge where they are at.

 

As I have pointed out in this segment you do not have to be the volume sales leader to win. It is all about profits. Sell too many cars for the wrong reasons and you can damage your image if your products are in the wrong hands. This is the Rolex segment not the Timex.

 

 

Well, this segment is about many things, image being one of them. If they want to chase the big boys, they need to make some noise here....and remind people why they are a rolex.....

[daves87rs]

 

You know what's killing me here?  7 pages of brands this/brands that, yet I fail to see how they can fix CTS issue in general.

 

 

There is a reason why the car is not selling....and I'll start with two: 

 

1- Is it still here? (what advertising?)

 

2- ATS. Kinda makes the CTS pointless. BMW is a company, not a division like Caddy. You do not need to compete with them on every level. You move the product that sells......

 

I get it...I like the CTS-but I fail to see the point in it at the moment.....and guessing by the sales, I am not the only one........

 

 

 Your points are valid to a point. 

 

1) Absolutely. I am seeing effin Mustang ads every freaking day. Had the same momentum of the ATS ads, in the beginning, kept up, then their sales would be double. Speculation yes...  but I saw a great deal of excitement seeing the ATS racing down the mountain side in Italy(?) a few years back.. "Robot Arms" would have been fine had a celebration actually been in order. The CTS, on the other hand started off with one commercial that I remember and haven't seen since... the "Moon Shot."

 

 

2) I don't agree with this at all. The ATS is necessary and should be fleshed out. A beautiful car left bland in anything not incorporating full fascia. The LED vertical front lights should be across the board at Cadillac. The ATS should have had a convertible ready for Summer. A Wagon. A Hybrid. It is possibly the most important car at Cadillac in convincing the masses that Cadillac is no longer "snooty and old luxury." 

 

In view of sales the proportion of sales is on point with the CTS tho. Eclass sells almost 45 of what the C-Class does. Same for the two Cadillacs. ATS sales need to go up though, but they could do this by advertising it and offering more desirable options.

 

 

 

Great looking? Yes!  But when the CTS goes to battle, it needs something more to stand on....and be able to show it.  Heck, the V series used to a big deal......but the people I talk to just don't talk about it like they used to....that-needs to change.

[daves87rs]

There will always be overlap between a Buick and a Chevy.

GM would be wise to just shed Buick and bulk up the premium trim levels, if they want to prioritize shareholder return value.  Right now they are prioritizing being bigger. As if being 1st, 2nd 3rd or heck 5th matters. It don't.

 

 

I see buick doing it's own thing....it doesn't have to be as lux any more.....

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

You know what's killing me here?  7 pages of brands this/brands that, yet I fail to see how they can fix CTS issue in general.

 

 

There is a reason why the car is not selling....and I'll start with two: 

 

1- Is it still here? (what advertising?)

 

2- ATS. Kinda makes the CTS pointless. BMW is a company, not a division like Caddy. You do not need to compete with them on every level. You move the product that sells......

 

I get it...I like the CTS-but I fail to see the point in it at the moment.....and guessing by the sales, I am not the only one........

 

 

 Your points are valid to a point. 

 

1) Absolutely. I am seeing effin Mustang ads every freaking day. Had the same momentum of the ATS ads, in the beginning, kept up, then their sales would be double. Speculation yes...  but I saw a great deal of excitement seeing the ATS racing down the mountain side in Italy(?) a few years back.. "Robot Arms" would have been fine had a celebration actually been in order. The CTS, on the other hand started off with one commercial that I remember and haven't seen since... the "Moon Shot."

 

 

2) I don't agree with this at all. The ATS is necessary and should be fleshed out. A beautiful car left bland in anything not incorporating full fascia. The LED vertical front lights should be across the board at Cadillac. The ATS should have had a convertible ready for Summer. A Wagon. A Hybrid. It is possibly the most important car at Cadillac in convincing the masses that Cadillac is no longer "snooty and old luxury." 

 

In view of sales the proportion of sales is on point with the CTS tho. Eclass sells almost 45 of what the C-Class does. Same for the two Cadillacs. ATS sales need to go up though, but they could do this by advertising it and offering more desirable options.

 

 

 

Great looking? Yes!  But when the CTS goes to battle, it needs something more to stand on....and be able to show it.  Heck, the V series used to a big deal......but the people I talk to just don't talk about it like they used to....that-needs to change.

 

 

 

 

The MSeries used to be a big deal.. most non-enthusiasts or even actual enthusiasts over 45 don't kno that it even exists. AMG is so muddled and over-used it is about as special as saying I drive an LTZ Impala... 

 

What the CTS needs is the cars that it had when it was selling 40% more than it is now. Its the most OBVIOUS thing in the history of man.

 

I'm selling 4 different versions of a car, and those version make up 40% of the volume of my sales. I STOP.. making those cars... and then so called ANALYST can't seem to get it in their heads WHY sales would be down. 

 

I'm selling 4 different versions of a car, and those version make up 40% of the volume of my sales. I STOP.. making those cars... and then so called ANALYST can't seem to get it in their heads WHY sales would be down.

 

I'm selling 4 different versions of a car, and those version make up 40% of the volume of my sales. I STOP.. making those cars... and then so called ANALYST can't seem to get it in their heads WHY sales would be down.

 

 

I think Cadillac knows this actually. I think they just don't MIND considering the car is not long for this wold and the next CTS will be sized slightly different (interior) to address they bitching going on by the media.. who suddenly is more interested in backseats than dynamics.

[hyperv6]

Dave image is the prime factor and it is not built on the number of models. It is Built over time with various models that normally ooze excess in many areas.

 

But it still has to make money and not be on every street corner. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Dave image is the prime factor and it is not built on the number of models. It is Built over time with various models that normally ooze excess in many areas.

 

But it still has to make money and not be on every street corner. 

Yes!!! Image and time are critical.  So too are getting relevant product to customers that they want.  They want CUV's

[Drew Dowdell]

Having multiple brands that overlap only helps the customer, through more choices....not the profit or bottom line so much.  

 

If there was direct overlap, sure that would be an issue... but GM is pretty well segmented now.  Buick buyers won't generally consider a Chevy nor a Cadillac, and vice versa. 

[Drew Dowdell]

I am sure GM wished they had more volume out of Cadillac.  Let's say hypothetically Chevy makes $1,000 per car profit, Buick and GMC $2,000 and Cadillac $4,000.  I'm sure they'd want to sell as many Cadillacs as possible, it has the best margin.  If Cadillac has terrible volume, that hurts GM's bottom line.

 

Before Cadillac gets their 5 year plan completed the new E-class will be here to lay the hurt on the CTS, A6 and GS.  They have a lot of new stuff in store, new inline six, electric turbos, autonomous drive, etc.

 

What makes you think Cadillac doesn't have a lot of stuff in store?  Cadillac has SuperCruise coming very soon, I've spotted the cars testing in Pittsburgh (there has been a semi-camoflaged XTS wandering around downtown).  Cadillac just released a fantastic new 8-speed automatic that performs equal or better than some of the best DCTs. There's the 3.0TT due out later this year, the updated 3.6, the updated 3.6TT, the coming V8TT, 4-wheel steering, a vastly upgraded CUE system, and more "added vehicle lightness". 

[El Kabong]

As I look through what this thread has morphed into the overriding theme is that Cadillac invites discussion. This, by definition, makes Cadillac interesting. And if you can create interest then you've got a leg up on succeeding.

I would rather have a brand thread that tolerates a fair share of silly posts than a brand thread that sinks like a stone.

[Drew Dowdell]

There will always be overlap between a Buick and a Chevy.

GM would be wise to just shed Buick and bulk up the premium trim levels, if they want to prioritize shareholder return value.  Right now they are prioritizing being bigger. As if being 1st, 2nd 3rd or heck 5th matters. It don't.

 

Buick exists for China, Opel and some Holden.  Chevy has already proven they can't sell in Europe because European tastes are different than American tastes. Europeans tend to demand more premium feeling vehicles even in their base models.  A Verano and Cruze overlap only slightly at the Cruze's high end and the Verano's low end.  The Regal and Malibu hardly overlap at all.

[El Kabong]

GM's current brand portfolio is about as minimal as it can get while still maintaining a global presence. And Drew is right-China is the reason Buick survived the restructuring in '08 and Pontiac didn't. Big picture stuff.

Edited June 17, 2015 by El Kabong

[daves87rs]

 

 

 

You know what's killing me here?  7 pages of brands this/brands that, yet I fail to see how they can fix CTS issue in general.

 

 

There is a reason why the car is not selling....and I'll start with two: 

 

1- Is it still here? (what advertising?)

 

2- ATS. Kinda makes the CTS pointless. BMW is a company, not a division like Caddy. You do not need to compete with them on every level. You move the product that sells......

 

I get it...I like the CTS-but I fail to see the point in it at the moment.....and guessing by the sales, I am not the only one........

 

 

 Your points are valid to a point. 

 

1) Absolutely. I am seeing effin Mustang ads every freaking day. Had the same momentum of the ATS ads, in the beginning, kept up, then their sales would be double. Speculation yes...  but I saw a great deal of excitement seeing the ATS racing down the mountain side in Italy(?) a few years back.. "Robot Arms" would have been fine had a celebration actually been in order. The CTS, on the other hand started off with one commercial that I remember and haven't seen since... the "Moon Shot."

 

 

2) I don't agree with this at all. The ATS is necessary and should be fleshed out. A beautiful car left bland in anything not incorporating full fascia. The LED vertical front lights should be across the board at Cadillac. The ATS should have had a convertible ready for Summer. A Wagon. A Hybrid. It is possibly the most important car at Cadillac in convincing the masses that Cadillac is no longer "snooty and old luxury." 

 

In view of sales the proportion of sales is on point with the CTS tho. Eclass sells almost 45 of what the C-Class does. Same for the two Cadillacs. ATS sales need to go up though, but they could do this by advertising it and offering more desirable options.

 

 

 

Great looking? Yes!  But when the CTS goes to battle, it needs something more to stand on....and be able to show it.  Heck, the V series used to a big deal......but the people I talk to just don't talk about it like they used to....that-needs to change.

 

 

 

 

The MSeries used to be a big deal.. most non-enthusiasts or even actual enthusiasts over 45 don't kno that it even exists. AMG is so muddled and over-used it is about as special as saying I drive an LTZ Impala... 

 

What the CTS needs is the cars that it had when it was selling 40% more than it is now. Its the most OBVIOUS thing in the history of man.

 

I'm selling 4 different versions of a car, and those version make up 40% of the volume of my sales. I STOP.. making those cars... and then so called ANALYST can't seem to get it in their heads WHY sales would be down. 

 

I'm selling 4 different versions of a car, and those version make up 40% of the volume of my sales. I STOP.. making those cars... and then so called ANALYST can't seem to get it in their heads WHY sales would be down.

 

I'm selling 4 different versions of a car, and those version make up 40% of the volume of my sales. I STOP.. making those cars... and then so called ANALYST can't seem to get it in their heads WHY sales would be down.

 

 

I think Cadillac knows this actually. I think they just don't MIND considering the car is not long for this wold and the next CTS will be sized slightly different (interior) to address they bitching going on by the media.. who suddenly is more interested in backseats than dynamics.

 

 

 

And to this, we agree...

[daves87rs]

Dave image is the prime factor and it is not built on the number of models. It is Built over time with various models that normally ooze excess in many areas.

 

But it still has to make money and not be on every street corner. 

 

 

While true, CTG makes a point.....having the CTS in different models was cool....problem is people never knew there was! 

 

 

Always thought the CTS wagon would make a great bad guy transformer....

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

After vowing to never watch the horrible GM commercial known as Transformers, I found myself with little other options one weekend and rented the latest with Mark W.

 

I have lost interest in movies in the past, barely getting through them, but in this case, I turned it off about 30 min into it. 

 

Never, EVER again.  Michael Bay jumped the shark long ago, and now he is just effing with us.

[David]

Agree that a Black CTS Wagon would make an awesome Deceptacon!

 

After vowing to never watch the horrible GM commercial known as Transformers, I found myself with little other options one weekend and rented the latest with Mark W.

 

I have lost interest in movies in the past, barely getting through them, but in this case, I turned it off about 30 min into it. 

 

Never, EVER again.  Michael Bay jumped the shark long ago, and now he is just effing with us.

We'll to each their own as I enjoyed all the transformer movies. Like a calgon bath take me away to fairy land.

[ccap41]

 

 

 

You know what's killing me here?  7 pages of brands this/brands that, yet I fail to see how they can fix CTS issue in general.

 

 

There is a reason why the car is not selling....and I'll start with two: 

 

1- Is it still here? (what advertising?)

 

2- ATS. Kinda makes the CTS pointless. BMW is a company, not a division like Caddy. You do not need to compete with them on every level. You move the product that sells......

 

I get it...I like the CTS-but I fail to see the point in it at the moment.....and guessing by the sales, I am not the only one........

 

 

 Your points are valid to a point. 

 

1) Absolutely. I am seeing effin Mustang ads every freaking day. Had the same momentum of the ATS ads, in the beginning, kept up, then their sales would be double. Speculation yes...  but I saw a great deal of excitement seeing the ATS racing down the mountain side in Italy(?) a few years back.. "Robot Arms" would have been fine had a celebration actually been in order. The CTS, on the other hand started off with one commercial that I remember and haven't seen since... the "Moon Shot."

 

 

2) I don't agree with this at all. The ATS is necessary and should be fleshed out. A beautiful car left bland in anything not incorporating full fascia. The LED vertical front lights should be across the board at Cadillac. The ATS should have had a convertible ready for Summer. A Wagon. A Hybrid. It is possibly the most important car at Cadillac in convincing the masses that Cadillac is no longer "snooty and old luxury." 

 

In view of sales the proportion of sales is on point with the CTS tho. Eclass sells almost 45 of what the C-Class does. Same for the two Cadillacs. ATS sales need to go up though, but they could do this by advertising it and offering more desirable options.

 

 

 

Great looking? Yes!  But when the CTS goes to battle, it needs something more to stand on....and be able to show it.  Heck, the V series used to a big deal......but the people I talk to just don't talk about it like they used to....that-needs to change.

 

 

 

 

The MSeries used to be a big deal.. most non-enthusiasts or even actual enthusiasts over 45 don't kno that it even exists. AMG is so muddled and over-used it is about as special as saying I drive an LTZ Impala... 

 

What the CTS needs is the cars that it had when it was selling 40% more than it is now. Its the most OBVIOUS thing in the history of man.

 

I'm selling 4 different versions of a car, and those version make up 40% of the volume of my sales. I STOP.. making those cars... and then so called ANALYST can't seem to get it in their heads WHY sales would be down. 

 

I think Cadillac knows this actually. I think they just don't MIND considering the car is not long for this wold and the next CTS will be sized slightly different (interior) to address they bitching going on by the media.. who suddenly is more interested in backseats than dynamics.

 

The only part I disagree with is  ^ AMG care are completely redone, suspension ->engine. They are gaining "AMG sport" or something stupid like that to compee with the "M Sport" packaged cars which I think is pretty stupid.

 Other than that.. Completely agree , man. I feel like it is just going to take time.. Like somebody else said in here they they can't just whip out 4 variations within the first model year like BMW/MB do, they need to though.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

The only part I disagree with is  ^ AMG care are completely redone, suspension ->engine. They are gaining "AMG sport" or something stupid like that to compee with the "M Sport" packaged cars which I think is pretty stupid.

 Other than that.. Completely agree , man. I feel like it is just going to take time.. Like somebody else said in here they they can't just whip out 4 variations within the first model year like BMW/MB do, they need to though.

 

 

It's the AMG-Sport thing that he's talking about.  Mercedes is successfully diluting the brand by offering AMG appearance models without the performance upgrades the full AMG models get.  Cadillac at least gives the V-Sport models a substantial performance boost even if they're not the full power V-Series model.

[ccap41]

 

 

 

The only part I disagree with is  ^ AMG care are completely redone, suspension ->engine. They are gaining "AMG sport" or something stupid like that to compee with the "M Sport" packaged cars which I think is pretty stupid.

 Other than that.. Completely agree , man. I feel like it is just going to take time.. Like somebody else said in here they they can't just whip out 4 variations within the first model year like BMW/MB do, they need to though.

 

 

It's the AMG-Sport thing that he's talking about.  Mercedes is successfully diluting the brand by offering AMG appearance models without the performance upgrades the full AMG models get.  Cadillac at least gives the V-Sport models a substantial performance boost even if they're not the full power V-Series model.

 

Oh, definitely agree then. I don't like the whole "AMG Sport" and "M Sport" thing those two have going on. It is basically the ricer version of lux cars. You cna buy a fake AMG/M instead of having to have mommy and daddy buy you a body kit. Stupid.

[El Kabong]

After vowing to never watch the horrible GM commercial known as Transformers, I found myself with little other options one weekend and rented the latest with Mark W.

 

I have lost interest in movies in the past, barely getting through them, but in this case, I turned it off about 30 min into it. 

 

Never, EVER again.  Michael Bay jumped the shark long ago, and now he is just effing with us.

Funny you should mention movies... a while back I watched the Matrix movies again. Did anyone else notice that the Cadillac that was featured was a (then) new-and-exciting CTS? That was forward-thinking, as it turned out.

They had to dredge up a suicide-door Continental for an interesting Lincoln. And so the problem was summarized without a word being spoken.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

After vowing to never watch the horrible GM commercial known as Transformers, I found myself with little other options one weekend and rented the latest with Mark W.

 

I have lost interest in movies in the past, barely getting through them, but in this case, I turned it off about 30 min into it. 

 

Never, EVER again.  Michael Bay jumped the shark long ago, and now he is just effing with us.

Funny you should mention movies... a while back I watched the Matrix movies again. Did anyone else notice that the Cadillac that was featured was a (then) new-and-exciting CTS? That was forward-thinking, as it turned out.

They had to dredge up a suicide-door Continental for an interesting Lincoln. And so the problem was summarized without a word being spoken.

 

No clear point here me thinks. But I do recall the Matrix movies, thought they were pretty freaking cool.  I can deal with one or two or five product placements in a movie.  I absolutely cannot deal with dozens like in the Transformer movies, aside from their ridiculous premise and editing.  That point is pretty clear.

[El Kabong]

You keep on thinking whatever it is you think :D

In the meantime I'll sit back and watch the passion that Cadillac inspires zoom this tread toward 200 posts. Shame that other brands can't get folks this all excited. Maybe they should try harder

Edited June 17, 2015 by El Kabong

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Wow, so now some here are post counting and keeping score on brand thread popularity.

OK.

Good to know. 

 

I will remember that, next time I find myself in Junior High.

 

[El Kabong]

Wow, so now some here are post counting and keeping score on brand thread popularity.

OK.

Good to know. 

 

I will remember that, next time I find myself in Junior High.

 

NEXT time?

Oh wings, you jokester, you...

[El Kabong]

But seriously now. Cadillac is going to be fine. They're going to keep introducing advanced tech for the rest of the company to eventually use, and they're going to do it while watching their competition, gradually, adopt their brand strategy.

It's good to be a GM fan.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

2K post count you say?

 

Glad I could do my little part raising awareness.

[El Kabong]

2K post count you say?

Glad I could do my little part raising awareness.

I didn't say that at all.

...Google "Roman numbers" and call me in five minutes.

Sheesh.

I learned that in Junior High :D

Edited June 17, 2015 by El Kabong

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

200 or 2000, whats the diff, other than a digit that I probably would have seen better, had I cared enough to wear my readers.  Sucks hitting 50. 

 

But again,

glad to do my little part.

[El Kabong]

200 or 2000, whats the diff, other than a digit that I probably would have seen better, had I cared enough to wear my readers. Sucks hitting 50.

But again,

glad to do my little part.

Dood.

You started this as a thinly-disguised slam on Cadillac and watched it turn into a great defense of GM's corporate strategy.

Alao, hearing self-proclaimed powertrain engineers brush off extra zeroes is a bit disturbing.

Little part, indeed

Edited June 17, 2015 by El Kabong

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Look, I am confident that all of Cadillac's efforts will pay off ONE day, with increasing sales.  I mean, they keep throwing good product out there long enough, something has to stick. Right.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Wings4Life

[hyperv6]

Autobots unite! Bumble Bee remove the Wings from 4 life.

 

I really was disappointed in the last movie but still liked it. GM made a great move here and one of the best since Smokey and the Bandit.

 

Ford has had their movies too so stop pissing and moaning. You must be running out of real substantiated comments?

 

As for time there is only so much time and so much man power. 5 years for each new model. GM and Ford both have commited recently to Cadillac and Lincoln so it will take time for then to reach their destination. In the mean time GM has several CUV and SUV models coming in the next two years.

 

To make their mark in this market they need to really make compellingly styled cars that hold all the advanced technology they can supply that is fully sorted out. The way to attract customers at Cadillac is styling. I hope the Elmirage is a signal of where this is going as that car would sell on looks alone. Add in the highest quality of materials and technology and you will make a compelling argument to bring people to the show rooms.

Lets face it Hyundai has sold a lot of car based on styling after they sold several series of cars that were not really to the level you could call ok quality in the 90's. They improved the cars but attracted the people to the new models with styling that could not be resisted by many.

 

Not saying Cadillac is bad now but it is not as compelling as it could be. Also the models all look too similar just in different sizes. I think if they take it from good styling to the kind of styling you would love to hand wash because of the curves of the sheet metal it will attract a lot of attention.

The strongest sense that is stimulated with an Automobile is sight. If done right you feel it in your soul right inside. A Ferrari Lusso 250 GT is one car that can stir the soul. Now don't get silly and get outrageous but it is time to be compelling and stirring to the visual sense. Put that on a world class platform with a world class engine and you will sell a lot more cars.

Now I am not saying to go back to the A&S hard edges. You want to be stylish but not controversial. We have already done that and need to move on.

[El Kabong]

LOL@pretending the last 190 posts of wings' failed troll thread didn't TOTALLY blow up in his face.

Go back and read dood. I'm sure the answers to your trolls, like the trolls themselves, have all been done before.

Yes indeed. These days it's good to be a GM fan

Edited June 17, 2015 by El Kabong

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Come on hyper, no movie in history has come close, not by a country mile, of matching the T movies.  

[hyperv6]

Throwing out good product till it sticks?

 

That has not really worked at Lincoln has it? May be it was not really good product either? Big sunroofs on a Taurus make not a Luxury car.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

LOL@pretending the last 190 posts of wings' failed troll thread didn't TOTALLY blow up in his face.

Go back and read dood. I'm sure the answers to your trolls, like the trolls themselves, have all been done before.

Yes indeed. These days it's good to be a GM fan

again, don't hate the messenger.

Just doing my part.

[El Kabong]

Throwing out good product till it sticks?

That has not really worked at Lincoln has it? May be it was not really good product either? Big sunroofs on a Taurus make not a Luxury car.

the second point is accurate. They have yet to throw out good product. Edited June 17, 2015 by El Kabong

[hyperv6]

T movies If you mean Terminators I am not sure I fell asleep after the second one.

 

On the whole I would rather watch Grand Prix in Surround sound. The sound track alone is great.