oldshurst442

What does Cadillac mean to you?

311 posts in this topic

oldshurst442    991

Driving home today, while passing by the friendly GM dealership in my neighborhood..where they also sell Cadillacs..this song came up on the radio  (Yeah..no joke impeccable timing!!!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9zzqNjt6e4

 

Seeing several 2015 Cadillac ATSs on the lot on a clearance sale got me thinking... :scratchchin:

 

1. Does a $38 000-$43 000 CDN Cadillac car equal a Cadillac?

Especially when on the same lot resides a 2016 $60 000 Chevrolet Camaro SS (same platform for phoque's sake), a 2015 $45 000 Chevrolet Impala LTZ and a 2016 38 000 Chevrolet Malibu Premier...

 

2. The Cadillac ATS, while a beautiful car, to me, does not convince me its a "Slick Black Cadillac".

What I mean by that, a Cadillac ATS does not inspire me to sing out loud about Sliiiiiick Blaaaaaaaaaack Caaaaadillaac with solid gold hubcaps....making me feel like a king!

 

And JDN wants to do sub ATS cars...

 

What Cadillac means to me?

 

A big, brash rock-n-roll machine that tells the world Ive made it!

A long, slick, arrogant, dick measuring automobile that lets the world know that Oldshurst442 has arrived and the party could commence!

 

THAT is what Cadillac means to me.

The ATS does not say that at all...that was the vibe I got today....

 

What does Cadillac mean to you?

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balthazar    1,882

Firstly, I have to separate Cadillac of today in today's market with Cadillac of 'yore', of which I am more familiar with ('60s and earlier).

 

I don't have a real issue with the ATS- it's a nice, competent model line.
But I am unflinchingly against anything smaller than the ATS, Johan is dead wrong on this front. Grow the core models (ATS, CTS, CT6, XT5, E); that's where the money needs to go.

 

The sub-ATS will be the end of Johan's employment @ Cadillac.

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Suaviloquent    713

I love Cadillac.

 

 

I think they never should have ever been allowed to degrade themselves - I blame GM for that.

 

Cadillac, I feel is supposed to be ultra-luxury. Buick and Olds were meant to be what Cadillac is now,,,save for the V-Series....

 

But they're making excellent vehicles, but I don't agree with having exclusive engines. Unless it's for compliance with stupid displacement laws....

 

Their heritage is V8, and while the LF4 and LGW are great, V8 is their heritage. 

 

 

To me Cadillac is finally achieving self-realization in this new millennium. 

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dfelt    1,782

Cadillac is Luxury what one strives for in owning an auto, rich in Leather, woods, worlds most quiet and comfortable ride. Fit n Finish better than the rest.

 

Luxury is something you never should find at a Chevy, Mercedes-Benz or any other dealer that is not just Luxury. 

 

You can have near Luxury level rides, but not top notch luxury when you compete in the lower segments.

 

I never want Cadillac to compete in the subcompact space IMHO. ATS should be the smallest any auto gets under Cadillac.

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oldshurst442    991

All three responses and Im on the same page with all of them.

With the exception of JDN's dismissal regarding sub ATS cars.

 

I think sub-ATS cars will be wildly successful. In Quebec, the ATS is a runaway success.  The 2.0T AWD is by far the best seller in the Cadillac sedan category. A trim that has a price tag of about $46 000-$48 000 CDN...In Quebec, the ATS might even be Cadillac's sales leader besting out another sales hit in the SRX.

 

But that is why I posted this....

As nice of a car the ATS is in ride, handling, looks....the price tag on it makes me question the Cadillac prestige....a sub ATS car even more.

 

Ive given hell to BMW and Audi and Mercedes Benz for this entry level luxury bullshyte....and yet Cadillac is the one to have tried their hand in it first with the Cimarron, and while that was a failure, the ATS is not.....

 

This is thread is NOT about why the Cimarron failed and why the ATS looks like to be a success (at least in Quebec), this thread is about how one feels about Cadillac and their place in history and their place today in 2016....

 

Cadillac was ALWAYS about ultra luxury.

Cadillac was ALWAYS about wanting MORE in your automobile. (all the luxury and excess and hoopla surrounding that included)

Cadillac was ALWAYS about telling people you have arrived when you pulled up and told people you did not give a shyte about anything and at the same time a Cadillac was about telling people you are stinking rich and you dont care who knows it! In fact, you want people to know you are rich that is why you drive a Cadillac!

 

I feel the ATS, while it may achieve sales, does not convey ANY of those messages.

 

The Escalade does.

The SRX also.

 

The CT6 is trying to convey that message.

The poolside commercial conveys that message.

 

The ATS just gives me vibes of yet another compact car trying to survive to jungle in a sea of lion SUVs out to pounce on it and eat it.

Hell, an equally priced CHEVROLET IMPALA LTZ @ $45 000 CDN kinda gives me some of that Cadillac criteria I mentioned above...

 

It aint even about the price tag.

Its about presence. And the lack the ATS has on the road.

It looks purty....but good looks is not enough.

It lacks something......it lacks this certain ingredient that makes a Cadillac a Cadillac.

 

The Escalade has that in droves.

The Ciel, the El Miraj drowned it it.

 

Even the SRX had that certain Cadillac flair.

The CTS and the CT6 almost have it.

 

What is it?

I have no idea what it is...but when I look at the models I named, I certainly know as much to identify which models have Cadillac mojo and which models desperately need it!

Edited by oldshurst442

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Used to be that for me Cadillac was aspiration.. I don't feel that way anymore basically because I really don't aspire to own any car at this point of my life. I have colleagues and associates that could buy and sell me.. they say the same things. Perspective. 

 

I think ones idea of luxury has more to do with what level your level of attainability is. For instance.. I remember taking a chick to the Eden Roc in Miami.. she literally dropped her panties soon as she saw the room. While I think it was nice.. I wouldn't have shown my ass unless we were at minimum the Ritz or Rui :AH-HA:

 

In truth.. for me Cadillac means HERITAGE and innovation. Cadillac, I'm convinced, has the capability to not only past Benz in the luxury field, but rejoin Rolls in it's plateau as well. It is unlike any other brand, but Benz, the epitome of innovation and heritage. Bringing in people not ever involved in the GM Culture created by Smith and furthered and embedded by Stempel will not only strengthen Cadillac but will trickle down to other brands as well even with Barra running things. I mention those two previous GM leaders because it was during their time that the idea of making Cadillac more mainstream took hold. Similar thing happened to Packard.. and Cord way back in the day.

 

Bottom line is that Cadillac is struggling because of lack of product, revolutionary change to a 112 year business, a corporate BK 6 years ago that made management re-prioritize, and American self loathing of.. well anything American. All that, and Cadillac is still as prestigious as at the very least Jaguar and Lexus, with more heritage than either. LOOK AT CADILLAC SALES and then speak. Actually analyze them for the briefest of moments and U will come away with as much confidence as I. As long as Cadillac stays the course, providing vehicles with the DNA that is embedded within the “ATS-CTS-CT6 Stepping Stone” then everything they put forth will add to overall sales volume without a need to fleet heavily.

 

 

U wanna see a situation of real BIAS? Look at the Audi numbers of 27 supposed offerings (versus Cadillac at 8)and tell me why there is such optimism for them with only 9.7% of the luxo market versus Cadillac at 9.1%

Again.. That's Audi with 27models/9.7% market vs Cadillac 8 models (less than 1/3) with 9.1%.

 

From last year

 

97022f.jpg

 

 

Cadillac's number of vehicles versus Benz, BMW, and Audi’s 12+ and their sales numbers are indicative of that fact.
 
WHY AM I BRINGING UP SALES?? Because this is the way market analyst look at success in each segment. It doesn' matter that the brand has a 3-6 mainstream offerings labeled under the luxo emblem.. its a sale, thus deemed desirable.
 
These other brands are picking up sales in areas where not only Cadillac does not offer vehicles YET, but in market segments that encroach very easily on mainstream market makers. There is no way a buyer should be trying to decide between a Mercedes CLA and a Honda Civic, Ford Fusion, or Chevy Malibu LTZ, yet it is happening.
 
For the record.. I have no issue with Cadillac offering a SUB-ATS.. as long as that SUB-ATS is RWD (on Alpha) or is a purpose built hatch or hybrid like the Volt or Astra, with preference on the RWD scenario. Sub-ATS could simply mean $3K less at $30K and slightly smaller, as we kno that the replacement for this ATS is moving up in interior size at least.

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dfelt    1,782

^ +1 Totally agree with you Balthazar

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Frisky Dingo    612

Cadillac means no-compromise, no-excuse luxury Americana. A distinct look, stance, and presence. A Mercedes Benz- dare I even say, Rolls- for the American patriot.

 

 

Unfortunately, Cadillac doesn't and refuses to build cars that embody those things. Such a shame.

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Suaviloquent    713

I'm okay with a sub-ATS, as long as it's a luxury car through and through.

 

Against the Mercedes Pretendz and the FWD Ultimate Fail Machine....it could be a whole lot worse...

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hyperv6    774

What Cadillac used to mean was to be the True Standard of the World all others were compared to and measured. That was decades ago. 

 

What they need to aspire to today is just the same but to attain that it will take years and continued improved products that need to better the rest to earn the image they need. 

As for the size and type of product brother it is what ever it takes anymore. Markets and customer desires have changed radically and the large sedan is just the the center of the market anymore. 

In the luxury segment some look for Quality, Technology and comfort but in so many different packages anymore. Add to this the challange to meet future regulations being forced on the market has forced the hand of all MFG. Just look at how many years Benz bragged about no FWD and now they have had to go to it. 

We also need to consider that if Cadillac it to go global the wants and needs are different globally too. Some placed just want large cars while others only want smaller but still high grade luxury cars. Some are forced into by taxation and regulation.  Hell just look what it cost to drive a larger car in London now with the added taxed or even parking. 

As of now Cadillac is very distinctive. No matter if you like the styling or not it is never going to be confused for a Benz of BMW as a Lexus has been as well as the Hyundai offering. So styling is of their own branding as to if you find to you taste that is all subjective but there is no way to say it is not distinctively their own style. 

 

I think if you consider that we have not seen what JDN can and will do yet. He has been there a year and  a half and we all here know you can not do much in that time. The XT5 and CT6 were both done by the time he arrived as only some clean up was being done for both models. 

We know that starting next year we will see some of his new refresh work but it will be limited at first. The first full on models will be 2020 and on. While I am not going to say what he has planed is going to solve everything I will say we can not condemn someone for work we have yet to see any hint of. At least let the man fail before you condemn him. 

 

What Cadillac means to me in the future. Well it will be a high profit lower volume division that will offer the most advanced and highest quality cars and CUV/SUV models that the market wants in all sizes and shapes. It will be seen as a leader in each segment it enters. 

Cadillac will be the company that all luxury brands will be compared to. 

Note the Battle Hymn Republic is playing in the back ground as you read this. 

 

What I do recommend is to consider where the automobile is going. While we pine for our wants and needs the automakers need to find what appeals to those coming behind us. They are the future that needs to be built for. They are not coupe lovers and many are not even car lovers but you have to find and build cars that appeal to them. Many do not like large V12 sedans and if they like something smaller it has to be investigated. 

When we dream of the future we can not pin all this on the past or present wants and needs but where this is all going is what needs to be worked on in each and every global market we plan to enter. 

 

This is big picture stuff not selfish personal wants and needs.That is where many American Automakers have failed in the past. The just build it they will come does not work anymore. 

 

Yes this means I feel they should build cars that do not appeal to me if they can make a good profit on them with younger people and or in different markets. Cadillac must do what is best to make them relevant to all not just a few. 

That Truly is the Penalty of Leadership!

Edited by hyperv6

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Sub-ATS could simply mean $3K less at $30K and slightly smaller…

Who is this demographic that is looking for a slightly smaller, slightly cheaper ATS @ Cadillac, exactly?

A billion dollars spent to develop this model that's a shave & a haircut smaller- there's simply no point to it.

 

 

 

Same demographic that buys the CLA... but later finds out its a POS.. Same buyer who will buy a 1 series or 2 series. And I doubt big time that it costs a billion$$ to develop the model.. Again.. when the newer ATS (CT3) will be a tad larger on the inside. I would also point out that while my preference is the Alpha platform be used.. I would have zero objection to a Dx vehicle that was a hatch or hybrid

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Cadillac means no-compromise, no-excuse luxury Americana. A distinct look, stance, and presence. A Mercedes Benz- dare I even say, Rolls- for the American patriot.

 

 

Unfortunately, Cadillac doesn't and refuses to build cars that embody those things. Such a shame.

 

 

If U say so BMW fan. A brand that I equate with boring and slow drivers who would be better off at a Starbucks than in my way. Nonetheless... Escalade, CTS, CT6 beg to differ with your opinion:

 

2vmj9fl.jpg

 

2vbn22d.jpg

 

2m7zuio.jpg

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balthazar    1,882

 

 

Sub-ATS could simply mean $3K less at $30K and slightly smaller…

Who is this demographic that is looking for a slightly smaller, slightly cheaper ATS @ Cadillac, exactly?

A billion dollars spent to develop this model that's a shave & a haircut smaller- there's simply no point to it.

 

Same demographic that buys the CLA... but later finds out its a POS.. Same buyer who will buy a 1 series or 2 series. And I doubt big time that it costs a billion$$ to develop the model.. Again.. when the newer ATS (CT3) will be a tad larger on the inside. I would also point out that while my preference is the Alpha platform be used.. I would have zero objection to a Dx vehicle that was a hatch or hybrid

OK… that's your take.

Mine is, there's no business case to bring out another sedan on the SAME PLATFORM as the ATS. I mean, hello?

And this is coming from someone who doesn't place all that much significance in what platform is under a vehicle.

 

CLA is moving copies (based on whoring out the badge), but the 1-2 series @ BMW is struggling.

But a FWD hatchback Cadillac??????????????????? What sort of sales analysis threads am I going to be reading there??

 

It's not where Cadillac came from, it's not where they need to go. 

The whole 'must match the German's catalogs' mindset has to die but some folks just won't let it go.

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hyperv6    774

 

Cadillac means no-compromise, no-excuse luxury Americana. A distinct look, stance, and presence. A Mercedes Benz- dare I even say, Rolls- for the American patriot.

 

 

Unfortunately, Cadillac doesn't and refuses to build cars that embody those things. Such a shame.

 

 

If U say so BMW fan. A brand that I equate with boring and slow drivers who would be better off at a Starbucks than in my way. Nonetheless... Escalade, CTS, CT6 beg to differ with your opinion:

 

2vmj9fl.jpg

 

2vbn22d.jpg

 

2m7zuio.jpg

 

 

 

Gee! at first glance these all look like Cadillac's! 

 

Even my blind grandfather said they even feel like Cadillac's. 

 

I think you have made a very valid point!!!!!

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hyperv6    774

 

 

 

Sub-ATS could simply mean $3K less at $30K and slightly smaller…

Who is this demographic that is looking for a slightly smaller, slightly cheaper ATS @ Cadillac, exactly?

A billion dollars spent to develop this model that's a shave & a haircut smaller- there's simply no point to it.

 

Same demographic that buys the CLA... but later finds out its a POS.. Same buyer who will buy a 1 series or 2 series. And I doubt big time that it costs a billion$$ to develop the model.. Again.. when the newer ATS (CT3) will be a tad larger on the inside. I would also point out that while my preference is the Alpha platform be used.. I would have zero objection to a Dx vehicle that was a hatch or hybrid

OK… that's your take.

Mine is, there's no business case to bring out another sedan on the SAME PLATFORM as the ATS. I mean, hello?

And this is coming from someone who doesn't place all that much significance in what platform is under a vehicle.

 

CLA is moving copies (based on whoring out the badge), but the 1-2 series @ BMW is struggling.

But a FWD hatchback Cadillac??????????????????? What sort of sales analysis threads am I going to be reading there??

 

It's not where Cadillac came from, it's not where they need to go. 

The whole 'must match the German's catalogs' mindset has to die but some folks just won't let it go.

 

 

First lets see if that is what they will do first and then lets just see the results before we complain. 

 

Arguing this right now is like arguing that you may get the flu in September. 

 

The things about Cadillac's future are very unknown to most outside the division even at GM and even less so here in the public domain. They have really said a lot of things but really given little in details.  It is kind of hard to get worked up on something we have no clue about at this point. 

 

Plus you have that factor out there today that is young and foolish that believe they will self destruct in the winter if they do not have a FWD/AWD car.  Audi makes an ever growing profit on these folks. Foolish yes but their money is as green as anyone else's. 

As ,for the small BMW it has done very well in Europe and other markets. Kind of proves it is not just about America anymore. 

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oldshurst442    991

The CTS lacks a certain Cadillac quality (in my eyes).

The V is superbly done. Just a tad too boy racer, but I could live with that.

 

The CT6 also lacks a certain Cadillac quality that I cant put my finger on.

Yeah, they both have that unmistaken Cadillac look, they lack that Cadillac feel.

Even a 1990 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance had that Cadillac feel.

The FWD STS cars had that certain je ne sais quoi about it.

Hell, a DTS had that Cadillac feel.

Presence.

 

The CTS-V has got it though. The look may be a tad too boy racer, but the Cadillac substance is there.

 

The Escalade is just...perfect.

 

But Hyper said something that maybe I too, should just relax and enjoy the up coming ride that JDN has in store for us.

 

Cadillac aint just about North America anymore.

 

My personal proof is that in Quebec, small car capital in North America, the ATS is a runaway success.

And I have talked to some of my clients that own an ATS...

They love the ride.

They love the handling.

They love the quality.

They think an ATS IS a car worth the Cadillac badge. Even with just the 2.0T car.

 

I think Im still stuck in an era when Cadillac was king and its hard for me to continue to wait for the second coming...

 

However...Frisky is right though.

Many people around the world are also awaiting for the "REAL" Cadillac to emerge.

The Ciel was well received across the planet.

A movie wanted that concept car soooo badly it actually made Cadillac give it to them.

It was a perfect car casting....too bad the Ciel was not real.

 

The Cien was also a concept car that made the movies.

That too, had Cadillac presence and fit the casting role perfectly...

And it was a mid-engine exotic back when Cadillac was anything but sporty. And the Cien did a wonderful job of making a futuristic world believe that Cadillac is a maker of high performance mid-engined sports cars!!!!

Edited by oldshurst442

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oldshurst442    991

I think Ive figured out what that certain Cadillac feel is.

 

Cadillacs were always larger than life.

 

That does not mean Cadillac cars have to be large cars. Just larger than life cars.

A sub ATS car should be outta this world stupendous. Whatever that may mean.

It should NOT be just another compact car merrily rolling along.

It COULD be a compact car, but it should give the middle finger to anybody that looks at it funny!!!

Edited by oldshurst442

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dfelt    1,782

I think Ive figured out what that certain Cadillac feel is.

 

Cadillacs were always larger than life.

 

That does not mean Cadillac cars have to be large cars. Just larger than life cars.

A sub ATS car should be outta this world stupendous. Whatever that may mean.

It should NOT be just another compact car merrily rolling along.

It COULD be a compact car, but it should give the middle finger to anybody that looks at it funny!!!

 

I would agree that Cadillac should be larger than life when you see it but does not have to be physically large.

 

It is the right balance of Style with attention to details that brings peoples eyes to the auto and everything else around it becomes a blur in the background. 

 

Cadillac needs to get all auto's into that portfolio. I do think Escalade, SRX / XT5, ATS and CTS V have it, not sure what it is about the CTS, but it is missing something be it very small, it is very close.

 

Not having seen a CT6 yet in the wild only pictures, I hope it has it also. An understated elegance that will capture peoples wow factor. I aspire to have one!

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Sub-ATS could simply mean $3K less at $30K and slightly smaller…

Who is this demographic that is looking for a slightly smaller, slightly cheaper ATS @ Cadillac, exactly?

A billion dollars spent to develop this model that's a shave & a haircut smaller- there's simply no point to it.

 

Same demographic that buys the CLA... but later finds out its a POS.. Same buyer who will buy a 1 series or 2 series. And I doubt big time that it costs a billion$$ to develop the model.. Again.. when the newer ATS (CT3) will be a tad larger on the inside. I would also point out that while my preference is the Alpha platform be used.. I would have zero objection to a Dx vehicle that was a hatch or hybrid

OK… that's your take.

Mine is, there's no business case to bring out another sedan on the SAME PLATFORM as the ATS. I mean, hello?

And this is coming from someone who doesn't place all that much significance in what platform is under a vehicle.

 

CLA is moving copies (based on whoring out the badge), but the 1-2 series @ BMW is struggling.

But a FWD hatchback Cadillac??????????????????? What sort of sales analysis threads am I going to be reading there??

 

It's not where Cadillac came from, it's not where they need to go. 

The whole 'must match the German's catalogs' mindset has to die but some folks just won't let it go.

 

 

 

Look Balthazar.. U and I are normally so much on the same page I have to look to see if its U speaking or myself.. but this time I have to simply disagree. The idea of Cadillac not catering to a sub-ATS crowd is crazy.. again.. even if the car is essentially JUST a same size version of the current ATS at $30K and the current ATS-L (from China) is coming in at the current $33K price then it is justified.. 

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Cadillac means no-compromise, no-excuse luxury Americana. A distinct look, stance, and presence. A Mercedes Benz- dare I even say, Rolls- for the American patriot.

 

 

Unfortunately, Cadillac doesn't and refuses to build cars that embody those things. Such a shame.

 

 

If U say so BMW fan. A brand that I equate with boring and slow drivers who would be better off at a Starbucks than in my way. Nonetheless... Escalade, CTS, CT6 beg to differ with your opinion:

 

2vmj9fl.jpg

 

2vbn22d.jpg

 

2m7zuio.jpg

 

 

 

Gee! at first glance these all look like Cadillac's! 

 

Even my blind grandfather said they even feel like Cadillac's. 

 

I think you have made a very valid point!!!!!

 

 

 

Thanks.. I think. The thing is that some people constantly try and belittle Cadillac for having vehicles that don't push the evelope far enough in styling.. yet from what I see.. the envelope that they are pushing has been pushed beyond almost every radical design language I can think of today. Lexus... ironically might be the one rival who has gone that way.. but not in terms of beauty, imo, but revolting. 

 

I see a Jag.. I don't really see a Jag (of Heritage). I see a copy of BMW.. or is it Audi.. or is it Mazda

I see a BMW.. I don't see anything of appeal.. outside of the 4 and the 6 series. That 's deplorable in a line-up consisting of 27 models. All of which look.. just Euro-Japanese. They look no more distinct on the road than a Honda, Ford, Toyota, or Chevy

I see an Audi ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the A/S5 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I see a Benz ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ CLS and S-Class Coupe ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Cadillac??? I can't think of one vehicle that doesn't sing CADILLAC!!! Mind U I'm not talking about Harley Earl's Cadillac.. or even Bill Mitchell's.. But Ed Welburn's A&S. The ATS, outside of the most BASE model looks like a Gen 2 CTS redo, a car that was very well received as a styling masterpiece

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The CTS lacks a certain Cadillac quality (in my eyes).

The V is superbly done. Just a tad too boy racer, but I could live with that.

 

The CT6 also lacks a certain Cadillac quality that I cant put my finger on.

Yeah, they both have that unmistaken Cadillac look, they lack that Cadillac feel.

Even a 1990 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance had that Cadillac feel.

The FWD STS cars had that certain je ne sais quoi about it.

Hell, a DTS had that Cadillac feel.

Presence.

 

The CTS-V has got it though. The look may be a tad too boy racer, but the Cadillac substance is there.

 

The Escalade is just...perfect.

 

But Hyper said something that maybe I too, should just relax and enjoy the up coming ride that JDN has in store for us.

 

Cadillac aint just about North America anymore.

 

My personal proof is that in Quebec, small car capital in North America, the ATS is a runaway success.

And I have talked to some of my clients that own an ATS...

They love the ride.

They love the handling.

They love the quality.

They think an ATS IS a car worth the Cadillac badge. Even with just the 2.0T car.

 

I think Im still stuck in an era when Cadillac was king and its hard for me to continue to wait for the second coming...

 

However...Frisky is right though.

Many people around the world are also awaiting for the "REAL" Cadillac to emerge.

The Ciel was well received across the planet.

A movie wanted that concept car soooo badly it actually made Cadillac give it to them.

It was a perfect car casting....too bad the Ciel was not real.

 

The Cien was also a concept car that made the movies.

That too, had Cadillac presence and fit the casting role perfectly...

And it was a mid-engine exotic back when Cadillac was anything but sporty. And the Cien did a wonderful job of making a futuristic world believe that Cadillac is a maker of high performance mid-engined sports cars!!!!

 

 

 

I get what U are saying in terms of the Ciel and Cien.. but the truth of the matter is that this thread pretty much is a semi-attack on the ATS. Read your first post. In fact.. it is almost entirely about how U feel teh ATS shoudl not be a Cadillac. NOW.. look at your quote above:

 

My personal proof is that in Quebec, small car capital in North America, the ATS is a runaway success.
And I have talked to some of my clients that own an ATS...
They love the ride.
They love the handling.
They love the quality.

 

They think an ATS IS a car worth the Cadillac badge. Even with just the 2.0T car.
 
U talked to actual owners who gave U that sound and positive resume.. yet still have issue with the product. Makes zero sense. 
 
In terms of Cadillac not being the Cadillac that U equate Cadillac of being... Let me the first to say; IF CADILLAC STILL SOLD THE CADILLACS IT WAS SELLING PRE-2003.. I would not have owned one damn Cadillac until I was 60, and I am currently Cadillac biggest fan. My dad has a 1996 Brougham.. I hate that car. Its a big floaty, though powerful (LT1) car with sofas for seats. It is a part of the sinking of Cadillac to where it was for most of the 2000-2010 decade.. it should not be revisited as the ascend back to the once loftiest position. The CT6-CT9 should be certainly large... but handling and styling should be precise, and bold. I see that..
 
 
 
This is BOLD:
 
Cadillac-CT6-nose.jpg
 
This is NOT
 
 
2016-bmw-7-series-exterior-images-1900x1

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Frisky Dingo    612

 

Cadillac means no-compromise, no-excuse luxury Americana. A distinct look, stance, and presence. A Mercedes Benz- dare I even say, Rolls- for the American patriot.

 

 

Unfortunately, Cadillac doesn't and refuses to build cars that embody those things. Such a shame.

 

 

If U say so BMW fan. A brand that I equate with boring and slow drivers who would be better off at a Starbucks than in my way. Nonetheless... Escalade, CTS, CT6 beg to differ with your opinion:

 

 

 

 

 

Sick burn. I thought we were talking about Cadillac. Cadillac needs to be building Ciels, Sixteens, and El Miraj's. THEN they would be fulfilling both their potential and heritage. Their current cookie cutter cars with cut-rate and garish interiors aren't cutting it. Sorry buddy, it's not my fault you can't look at the brand through anything other than rose-colored glasses.

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Cadillac means no-compromise, no-excuse luxury Americana. A distinct look, stance, and presence. A Mercedes Benz- dare I even say, Rolls- for the American patriot.

 

 

Unfortunately, Cadillac doesn't and refuses to build cars that embody those things. Such a shame.

 

 

If U say so BMW fan. A brand that I equate with boring and slow drivers who would be better off at a Starbucks than in my way. Nonetheless... Escalade, CTS, CT6 beg to differ with your opinion:

 

 

 

 

 

Sick burn. I thought we were talking about Cadillac. Cadillac needs to be building Ciels, Sixteens, and El Miraj's. THEN they would be fulfilling both their potential and heritage. Their current cookie cutter cars with cut-rate and garish interiors aren't cutting it. Sorry buddy, it's not my fault you can't look at the brand through anything other than rose-colored glasses.

 

 

 

 

Not even gonna go back and forth with U Dingo.. Just gonna state the facts:

 

1) Interiors are award winning and have been getting kudos galore for their craftsmanship, quality, and materials

2) The Elmiraj is coming. But I think anyone of reasonable mind would want the CT6 to launch before they delve deep into a CT7. See? The numbers make more sense if U go in order.. idiot. 

3) Rose colored glasses? No. I just look at them thru my wallet.. and love what I see. 

 

Do me a favor.. Post up a picture of your brand new BMW.. and its fantastic interior. In fact... post up a picture of a new BMW with in your words.. "A distinct look, stance, and presence."

 

bmw-7-series_876.jpg

 

 

 

Distinct? Looks like any other BMW. In fact without a tape measure one would be hard pressed to say that it ISN'T a 5 Series. I won't even get into the fact that it looks pretty generic as car as CARS go

 

Stance? Huh? I'll replace that with engineering. The BMW name used to stand for something.. now its pretty much switched places with Lexus in terms of ride and dynamics.. while still certainly not in reliability

 

Presence??? Eff outta here. There is nothing.. and I mean nothing about a BMW outside of the 6Series that comes off as having presence.. and even that car is me throwing U a bone. The rest of the line up looks like it took styling cues from this:

 

Soap.jpg

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oldshurst442    991

"U talked to actual owners who gave U that sound and positive resume..yet still have issue with the product. Makes zero sense."

 

 

 

I never had any issues with the product...nor the styling.

The presence, the feel...the attitude of the ATS, in MY EYES is all wrong...

 

Just how you would not buy a Cadillac Brougham of 1996 vintage, and noit until you were 60 years old...because I, at 43 years of age, would have considered a Brouhmam in 2016...

 

The question I asked is how does one feel about Cadillac...

 

I don't want Cadillac to be producing land yachts...but what do you think a Ciel is?

Or an Escalade for that matter...

 

(You've got to be kidding me if you think an Escalade is all that different from a 1996 Brougham...a slight suspension tuning to be less floaty for modern day Cadillac drivers is that difference...because its still a  BOF vehicle...an SUV...Im sure a Brougham could have had the same suspension and steering feel done to it with the same brakes to be a more modern land yacht...)

 

I like the way the ATS drives...its the lack of presence its got on the road that is a concern to me...

Ive gotten over the fact that Cadillac compacts are reality, but when a Honda Civic has more teeth and ballz to its look and feel, there is a problem.

 

Casa, the ATS, while arts and science is clearly visible, the ATS is no more exciting than the BMW and Audi cars you whine about...

ATS V aside....which has boy racer looks, is clearly lacking road presence.

And a price tag that Chevrolet keeps bouncing up on...

 

ATS V...

Boy racer looks.

 

That is a very cheap way to establish road presence.

That was Pontiac's way, it worked for Pontiac...well...Pontiac is no longer...

 

But whatever...I like this thread because I got many people's point of view of Cadillac for 2016...I wanted to know if I was alone in these thoughts of mine...

 

and I would STILL  like others to join in...

Plenty of Cheers and Gears folk that have not chimed in.

 

 

PS...a big grille alone does not equate to being bold...

 

Its got to be "more than a sum of its parts" type deal...

Edited by oldshurst442
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