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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Unifor Drops Some Print Ads on GM's Doorstep

      That's a bit of rude awakening 

    General Motors got a rude awakening if they picked up a copy of the Detroit Free Press or Detroit News. Right on the front page is a large ad by Canadian union Unifor accusing GM executives of having the lack of support toward Canadian and U.S. plant workers after announcing certain products would be "unallocated" and bringing up the possible worry of plant closures.

    One ad says, "U.S. and Canadian workers made GM," that follows with the question, "Why should our jobs and our products go to Mexico? Keep our plants open."

    Automotive News notes that the ads weren't in any Candian papers. The most likely reason for that is that Unifor officials would be meeting with GM today at the Renaissance Center.

    “GM needs to know that we are not accepting their announcement. It is crystal clear to myself and the leadership of the union that GM is leaving Canada. The newspaper ads are to let them know we are dead serious,” said Unifor president Jerry Dias.

    Dias said the ads are to show GM that it will have “a real problem” selling new vehicles to consumers on either side of the border starting next year.

    “GM has betrayed consumers in Canada and the United States. People are finally saying to GM, ‘You have gone too far.’ This is going on on both sides of the border,” he said.

    GM in an emailed statement to Automotive News said, "The GM restructuring decisions are extremely difficult for all of us in Oshawa, but we believe the best approach is to work together to support our employees including support for local training and transition initiatives in the Durham Region. We remain strongly committed to Canada and will continue to engage in dialogue with Unifor."

    GM also confirmed the meeting with Unifor but declined to provide any details about it.

    Kristin Dziczek, vice president of Industry, Labor & Economics at the Center for Automotive Research said Unifor faces an uphill battle with GM as their negotiations don't till 2020, a year after the UAW does theirs.

    "The UAW is going to go after any new product allocations for their two plants that are set to close and others that are underutilized," she said.

    "If there's product to be got, the UAW is going to go after it first."

    Dziczek also notes that Unifor's ads have "somewhat have a point" regarding GM's plants in Mexico, which are more utilized than many plants in Canada and the U.S.

    "They have to look like they're fighting like mad, and there are lots of ways of doing that. This is one way."

    We have a picture of the ad from the Detroit Free Press below if you're interested in what it looks like.

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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    Edited by William Maley

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    Very well done. If GM workers can convince Americans and Canadians to boycott their product and forcing GM to hemmorage profits and recommit to local manufacturing...it would be one of the last hurrahs of labour conquering capital...damn if it’s Unionized they will want to burn GM down to the ground if nothing is done.

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    It would be better if half the import buyers would buy GM products instead.  Last 40 years have been rather painful.

    While I cannot blame Unifor for this publicity stunt, they would be better off getting their fellow Canadians to stop buying Japanese.

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    Good to see workers fight back..don't know if it will be effective or not.   GM (and other manufacturers) would move all production to 3rd world cheap labor locations if they could get away with it, they have no interest in local manufacturing, they just want to churn out product as fast and cheaply as possible. They couldn't care less about the workers; only the profits for the shareholders and bonuses for incompetent, corrupt executives. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    ^ Look at all the German & Japanese plants here- those jobs could've gone to citizens where the respective HQs are.

    They couldn't care less about the workers; only the profits for the shareholders and bonuses for incompetent, corrupt executives.

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    15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    ^ Look at all the German & Japanese plants here- those jobs could've gone to citizens where the respective HQs are.

    They couldn't care less about the workers; only the profits for the shareholders and bonuses for incompetent, corrupt executives.

    So why can BMW and Honda build here at a profit and GM and Ford cannot?

    Also....think of the cool stuff we would be getting it people were more behind U.S. auto makers. Hummer would still be in production...we would be getting the next gen Focus...perhaps a truly hot Taurus SHO.

    F

    As it is Malibu will sort of be last man standing for domestic passenger cars that are just regular automobiles.

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    24 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    So why can BMW and Honda build here at a profit and GM and Ford cannot?

     

    Non-union plants?  I don't know how much of a labor cost difference there is, but there must be some difference. 

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    We're still assuming the supposed cancelled vehicles were all unprofitable. And that other brand's vehicles in production are profitable.

    GM's pre-tax income in 2017 was just under $12 billion, but 'extraodinaries' resulted in a 3.8B loss last year. The 2 years before that GM's net income was in the $9-10B range.

    Edited by balthazar
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    1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

    It would be better if half the import buyers would buy GM products instead.  Last 40 years have been rather painful.

    While I cannot blame Unifor for this publicity stunt, they would be better off getting their fellow Canadians to stop buying Japanese.

    I sympathize with this...

    Yet...the North American market is in fact a free market system.

    The North American way does not allow for monopolies...(lets leave the obvious exceptions as this discussion will go in another direction. Lets just keep it simple and talk about in theory...)

    The North American people want and demand choice...

    Let us be honest...General Motors, Ford and Chryco really did take advantage of the North American people. Let us be honest. The Big 3 over the century of building cars really did some serious backstabbing to their own, really cheated the masses with piss poor quality products, let their dealership network become stealerships, screw over their workers...even Henry Ford who was once a God for his workers ended up being a Devil...

    Over a century of this. And especially building crap cars in the mid 1970s all the way to, let us be honest...up until 2008...(There was never a good reason for the Northstar V8 to be have been finally fixed of its problems in the mid 2000s when they GM knew what the problems were in the mid 1990s. GM could blame the consumer for crappy servicing, but ultimately, GM knew better...

    And that is just with one problem of many.  In another thread, the one where I went bat shyte crazy, there was talk about GM's screwey key ignition problems.  

    Yes. Yes. Foreign manufacturers have done the same.

    Hyundai...that thread is about Hyundais...

    What I find deplorable though, is that the foreign makes also have built crap. In their home markets too. But those folk are proud of their industry as where Americans lost that pride. (Canadians too lost that pride for American cars). What I find deplorable is that Americans continue to self hate...

    BUT I DO NOT BLAME THEM!!!

    So...we find our situation that we are in....but make no mistake about it. GM did that to themselves...

    About closing down these 5 North American plants.  This is more of a middle finger salute to Donald Trump than it is to American and Canadian workers. But its these 18 000 workers that ultimately get it up the ass...

    The next step is this: Do we stop buying GM vehicles completely? 

    Tough call...maybe not a good choice. 

    So how does GM convince the American and Canadian buying public that GM cares?  How does GM mend the pain of building shytyy cars in the past and how does GM build cars in North America without screwing its worker while making profits...

    Mexico...you know, its close to slave labour...how does a politician and a CEO take care of that problem without having to have factories in the US leave for Mexico all in the while a politician trying to balance trade equality and wanting the best for its workers and its own factories and its own industry? 

    Alls I could tell you is good luck in convincing the person who bought 3 Toyota Corollas or 3 Honda Civics in his lifetime, and those Japanese imports did succeed in getting 300 000 reliable miles to buy an American Ford Tempo or Chevy Citation or Pontiac Grand Prix DOHC 3.4 with head gasket problems or transmission failures that their neighbors always bitched about...or my wife's Fusion getting yet another recall on it...I got this new recall in the fall.  Sure Ford will fix it, free, but this is how Ford loses money on  the Fusion. 

    And if this was before 2009, I would be left with the repair bill to fix it. So...the Big 3 CONTINUE to phoque around with reliability...

    I know I know....Honda and Toyota also have recalls and their reliability is also questionable. 

    But...you cannot deny that a Civic or Corolla, perception or otherwise, common knowledge or myth, a Honda Civic and a Toyota Corolla are built like tanks and will never let down their owners...

    Try saying that about a domestic car (not truck) and see who DOESNT laugh at you...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    I, for one, ABSOLUTELY can deny that a civi-rolla is "built like a tank"- they're cheap, plasticy, disposable appliances.
    And there's no myth about toyota recalling 50 million plus vehicles over the last 15 years for horrendously bad engineering. The frame rot fiasco is a personal fave I can't get past- that was a 1910-level mistake... but in 2010.

    We could examine how shitty japanese cars from the '70s ALSO were if the tin worm hadn't eat them all into rust flakes.

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    2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    I, for one, ABSOLUTELY can deny that a civi-rolla is "built like a tank"- they're cheap, plasticy, disposable appliances.
    And there's no myth about toyota recalling 50 million plus vehicles over the last 15 years for horrendously bad engineering. The frame rot fiasco is a personal fave I can't get past- that was a 1910-level mistake... but in 2010.

    We could examine how $h!ty japanese cars from the '70s ALSO were if the tin worm hadn't eat them all into rust flakes.

    You could deny all you want...(and if you read my post correctly, Im in agreement with you) but it still does not change the fact that Americans PERCEIVE...scratch that...the WHOLE planet...PERCEIVES that American cars are garbage...

    This perception has festered itself in the 1980s...and never really went away. To. This. Day. 

     

     

     

     

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    1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

    Non-union plants?  I don't know how much of a labor cost difference there is, but there must be some difference. 

    If within the same area as a union plant (say, a Honda plant in Ohio), a non-union plant is usually $3-5/hr cheaper than a typical UAW union plant.  If there are no union plants (e.g most of the South), it is often half to two-thirds the wages of a union plant.

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    22 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    You could deny all you want...(and if you read my post correctly, Im in agreement with you) but it still does not change the fact that Americans PERCEIVE...scratch that...the WHOLE planet...PERCEIVES that American cars are garbage...

    This perception has festered itself in the 1980s...and never really went away. To. This. Day.

    Yeah, sorry; no way are we in agreement with that impossible statement.

    Edited by balthazar

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    4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Yeah, sorry; no way are we in agreement with that impossible statement.

    You live in a fantasy world, Balthy...

    A little pop culture for you...from 1984. A comedy. But the sentiment is there...

     

    And if you do not think people in America, or the whole world does not view American cars as garbage...well...like I said...you may be living in a bubble...

    Edited by oldshurst442

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    Blue Collar scare tactics as the Union Bosses are worried about loosing their cushy paid jobs for minimal benefits by not having union members to pay them for pathetic labor negotiations.

    I support GM on this!

    1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

    If within the same area as a union plant (say, a Honda plant in Ohio), a non-union plant is usually $3-5/hr cheaper than a typical UAW union plant.  If there are no union plants (e.g most of the South), it is often half to two-thirds the wages of a union plant.

    Please post facts on this as I have not seen that the non-union plants are that far underpaid.

    From stories I find, the non-Union plants mostly pay more than the UAW.

    https://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/29/foreign-domestic-automakers-wage-gap/

    Seems in this story, Toyota pays their non-Union workers more than the average GM union worker.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-true-price-of-auto-labor-costs/

    I see NO VALUE from the Unions today.

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    56 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    What is your source for an all-encompassing 'world opinion', please.

    Stop with the semantic bullsit arguments...but Ill give you one. 

    But you could start with looking what sedans are no.1 in sales in the US market....

     

    As far as my world opinion goes...

    I went to Greece in 2001. Talked to many local yokels about cars...saw many tourists from around the world...with a couple of them, we engaged in world politics and...cars...

    Went to Greece in 2003. Same thing.

    Went to Greece 15 years later...same thing...

    And you know what? 

    American automobiles with several people, in Greece, from Greece, Italy, France, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Egypt, Germany., England..did not have nice things to say about American cars...in 2001, in 2003 and 15 years later in 2018

    Yes. A small sample size. A very small sample size. From people that never really saw an American automobile in their lives....not even as a Hot Wheels model. 

    But...still does not change the fact that people just do not like American cars and they think that they are garbage.

    Save for the Mustang, Corvette and old skool Cadillacs And to some, even the Mustang, Corvette and old skool Cadillacs are garbage as well...

    Its OK if you do not believe me. I aint here trying to convince you otherwise either.  I do not really care.  

    And I really do think the Japanese  cars in the 1960s and 1970s were the worst crap ever. American cars get shat on for far less than  what German cars were. But it is what it is...

    And here you are...arguing with me, yet Cadillac is killing off their halo car/not their halo car, but just you wait and see what we got in store for you for this non-halo car and they are killing it just after 2 or 3 years on the market...because yeah...Americans just loooooove American cars...

    After 3 decades of Cadillac promising us a halo sedan to compete with the Germans...after billions spent...from the Cadillac that Zigs to Arts and Science to Johan...because...all because you want to discredit me and you dont wanna believe that Americans and the whole world just thinks that American cars suck...(with the exemption of the Chinese...)     

    So yeah...you got me...not the whole planet...1.386 billion Chinese think that American cars arwe OK.  7.7 billion people on the planet....that would be 20-25%% of the world that think that American cars are OK...so yeah...you got me there!!!

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    I love this.....this is what happens when you try to go cheap...and it will burn. GM seems to forget who makes the quality product. Coming from a UAW family-this hits home with me. IF they try to make this about the money, it will cost them more than sales...

    This is not rocket science folks. Cruze sales down? How about sending the Cruze to Mexico and bring the hot selling Equinox here? Bolt would do just fine in D Ham. Couldn’t hurt to build some trucks at Oshawa..... I know how automotive works-and what can and should be done. Would be nice to keep those loyal GM buying workers/family buying....don’t play us dumb, GM.

    I am but maybe a week or two from getting a GM product. I want to see how this plays out....could be a mind changer.

    I want to have passion in my product-or it is simply not worth it. If I just want another CUV, heck, I cold just buy a Kia.

    It just seems GM wants to play stupid at least once a decade.......

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    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Stop with the semantic bullsit arguments...

    If you use absolute, over-the-top terms, expect to see them challenged now & again. You cannot support your contention factually, and your sample size precludes you from objectively supporting it even anecdotally. Why bother to chose those terms, then?

    GM (and Ford) have publicly recognized the very real decline of passenger sedan volume. But people seem to think it's ONLY happening at GM & FoMoCo. Look at the numbers; EVERYONE is down in sedans, a great portion in double digits. Some established nameplates have dropped so low it's amazing their plugs weren't pulled a few years back (vs. these GM implications a year or more in the future). Is it some great laudable accomplishment their sedans have dwindled to the point of building what amounts to 4 cars per DAY but they're still here anyway? How so?

    I can certainly accept the market share plot line over time, but General Motors is still neck & neck with hyundai for 3rd largest OEM worldwide, and miles ahead of such competitors as honda, nissan, daimler, BMW, Chrysler/fiat, renault, among others, despite losing over a half dozen brands. How is anyone supposed to agree with your portrayal based on such sales volume- it's certainly not price-driven given GM's ATP rise over the last decade (in fact, a charting of production volume coupled with ATP might be quite illuminating).

    Further, the 1970s was a long long time ago, and recent quality assessments refute any 'garbage' claims as an outmoded holdover from that period (when everything was equally 'garbage'). We've gone from wildly different engineering, MPG, quality, amenities & tech differences, to screaming about grades of plastics.

    Edited by balthazar

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    Honestly, I myself don’t really think of GM as an entry level car brand anymore either. I don’t desire their products being cancelled, and if I had the means right now then hell yes I’ll get a CT6. Even a 2.0T RWD, I don’t need the fancy Platinum. 

    Even still my dream has always been to gift my dad brand new a Cadillac sedan one day. But that dream will not be fufilled if a few American workers...or an army of robots in America did not build it. That’s why I hate the idea of an imported Cadillac, any, even the basest off stripper fleet special in the home market because... it’s not popular here... because it hasn’t earned the market’s respect for it... so they won’t build it here. GM was right to cancel the plug-in, but the entire line? Damn.

    As a millennial, living in the city, right now having my first real salaried and managerial entry for my career (before being 24 yrs old woot!) I see GM and just look the other way. But that’s the same way with all cars. I still drive... I irrationally desire a Tesla, only because they’re a small player and out of spite I want a different brand that starts with T to topple Toyota....

    People still desire cars irrationally - Cadillac cause my dad ingrained his aspiration into me that became my aspiration. Tesla because they’re just making such a different proposition, that every other car will try to be just like ours eventually....

    Then their wife and kids bring their objectivity and thirst for practically to you and you get a crossover instead. The end. 

     

     

     

     

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    1 hour ago, balthazar said:

    If you use absolute, over-the-top terms, expect to see them challenged now & again. You cannot support your contention factually, and your sample size precludes you from objectively supporting it even anecdotally. Why bother to chose those terms, then?

    GM (and Ford) have publicly recognized the very real decline of passenger sedan volume. But people seem to think it's ONLY happening at GM & FoMoCo. Look at the numbers; EVERYONE is down in sedans, a great portion in double digits. Some established nameplates have dropped so low it's amazing their plugs weren't pulled a few years back (vs. these GM implications a year or more in the future). Is it some great laudable accomplishment their sedans have dwindled to the point of building what amounts to 4 cars per DAY but they're still here anyway? How so?

    I can certainly accept the market share plot line over time, but General Motors is still neck & neck with hyundai for 3rd largest OEM worldwide, and miles ahead of such competitors as honda, nissan, daimler, BMW, Chrysler/fiat, renault, among others, despite losing over a half dozen brands. How is anyone supposed to agree with your portrayal based on such sales volume- it's certainly not price-driven given GM's ATP rise over the last decade (in fact, a charting of production volume coupled with ATP might be quite illuminating).

    Further, the 1970s was a long long time ago, and recent quality assessments refute any 'garbage' claims as an outmoded holdover from that period (when everything was equally 'garbage'). We've gone from wildly different engineering, MPG, quality, amenities & tech differences, to screaming about grades of plastics.

    We are in an automotive forum...

    Not a courtroom...anything said in here is over the top and anecdotal...so please spare me the semantic arguments...

    Declining market share proves my over the top statements.

    Anecdotal discussions are part of automotive forums...and they are real...they reflect kinda how society flows.

    isnt that how Donald Trump got elected? By him saying over the top things by him even using anecdotal slogans?

    And YES...I AGREE WITH YOU!!! 

    Quote

    the 1970s was a long long time ago, and recent quality assessments refute any 'garbage' claims as an outmoded holdover from that period (when everything was equally 'garbage')

    I said that...but you have a hard time understanding  what PERCEIVED  means...

    And yes...the 1970s was such a long time age, yet Cadillac has not shed the negative stigma surrounding its cars...Lincoln neither.

    Their SUVs sell, but people will not touch their cars...

    "Nobody" buys their cars...(absolute statement)

    But the thing is, CT6 sales are low, that GM is canceling it...to boot, the Continental is going away too...

    Yet you would prefer to challenge me on the "nobody buys the CT6" statement because there has been people to buy the phoquiking thing, yet you glaze over the reality of said absolute statement.  An over the top statement that deals in an absolute, even if its not 100% accurate, does not make it a false statement...

    Go ahead...challenge me on the "the whole planet, Americans included, think that American cars are garbage" and pat yourself on your back for finding just one soul that does not think that American cars are crap...making my statement false???  The reality of it all is that the Malibu is behind in sales from the Camry, Accord, Altima. I aint sure if the Sonata and Optima are behind it. 

    The Cruze, the Focus, the Fiesta and the Spark are being canceled because the sales that Ford and GM wants from are not there. Yet the Corolla and Civic sell just fine in a world of CUV and SUV sales...

    Yup...congrats to you for proving me wrong about my absolute statement. (SARCASM)

     

     

    Edited by oldshurst442

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    You should know me by now- I'm a facts-based guy. I read 'perceived' all the time- it's vapor. 'People' think toyootas are great, they're not; I dismiss the perception. 'People' think GM's are garbage, they're not; I dismiss the perception as a waste of time. People think all sorts of things all the time ---Oh no; a black cat!!--- people can (and should) do better.

    I don't care how many CT6s Cadillac sells, it's not the point of the brand. If it's an excellent car befitting of it's position and it's profitable, they can sell 100/yr. Eldorados of the Golden Age sold in perilously low numbers.

    So far, and in constricted language, the assembly plants in question are "unallocated" beyond 2019. I have read this is due to UAW agreement terms. But recall that the CTS jumped assembly plants (IIRC)- all the articles I saw were assuming the CT6 was being cancelled; what if it is getting moved instead? LGR is getting heavily retooled as we speak. We'll see what happens...

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    Well the whole issue is that GM isn’t saying what the implication of their recent 5 plant statement is. They appear as to be hiding the truth. And if they are going to produce any car still in America and do it because it’s profitable the market will call their bluff on the spot.

    E.i. their car sales have declined partially due to poor feature content, the market demands higher cost on features and less on labour. That’s why import brands sell well there. Sedans as  whole are declining. It’s a segment people know now GM really has little interest in. A reversal would damage GM equally as much as leaving.

    GM is in a position where they cannot be provided any incentive to build these products any more. Why should the employees dictate their product plans? Well, if GM sees that their viability in the U.S is in any way at risk because a large group of stakeholders, their employees are disloyal to the company, again, why would they allocate product?

    Only an untenable situation like banning GM products wholesale and getting 100% American parts will keep production, but then the hammer has to hit every nail. You’d lose the next election cause the people want choice. And they’ve made their choice. Sedans are the ones to die. 

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      9T50   -- 258 lb-ft 9T65   -- 280 lb-ft The need to pack 9-speeds into a very slim transmission case meant that they have to use an ovoid cross section torque converter, a tension chain coupling and abandon the high torque capability of the previous generation top dog 6T80 (369 lb-ft) transmissions used in the 410 hp / 368 lb-ft 3.6L Twin-Turbo (LF3) powered Cadillac XTS. The lack of torque capability is also in part why Ford abandoned the use of the GM-Ford 9TXX transmissions, choosing instead to develop an 8-speed evolution of the decade old 6T80 for use in their high torque applications like the Ford Edge ST (2.7L Ecoboost V6 with 335 hp / 380 lb-ft). Ford also asserts that the new 9-speed autos did not yield any fuel economy improvement when tested with their engines and the refinement improvements alone did not justify the costs and weight increases.
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Since the launch of the XT4 with the rather anemic (if more refined) LSY engine, many (including myself) had questioned why GM does not offer the Tripower 310 bhp / 348 lb-ft (L3B) 2.7T 4-cylinder in the XT4 (at least) as an option. To a lesser extent some have also questioned why the LSY is putting out a mere 237bhp / 258 lb-ft whereas the outgoing LTG engine is good for 265~272 bhp / 295 lb-ft. Is it just so that it can have 258 lb-ft arrive @ 1,500 rpm? Now, we have the answer...
      It's the 9-speed Automatics.
      Adopting the 9-speed automatics is deemed a priority for refinement and fuel economy. The new GM-Ford 9TXX transmissions, jointly developed with Ford promises better fuel economy and better shift quality. There are currently two versions of this transmission:-
      9T50   -- 258 lb-ft 9T65   -- 280 lb-ft The need to pack 9-speeds into a very slim transmission case meant that they have to use an ovoid cross section torque converter, a tension chain coupling and abandon the high torque capability of the previous generation top dog 6T80 (369 lb-ft) transmissions used in the 410 hp / 368 lb-ft 3.6L Twin-Turbo (LF3) powered Cadillac XTS. The lack of torque capability is also in part why Ford abandoned the use of the GM-Ford 9TXX transmissions, choosing instead to develop an 8-speed evolution of the decade old 6T80 for use in their high torque applications like the Ford Edge ST (2.7L Ecoboost V6 with 335 hp / 380 lb-ft). Ford also asserts that the new 9-speed autos did not yield any fuel economy improvement when tested with their engines and the refinement improvements alone did not justify the costs and weight increases.


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