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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    New 3-Row Jeep to Get New Name

      The 7-seater will play in the same segment as the Grand Cherokee.

    During an announcement that FCA will be building a new manufacturing plant in Detroit, FCA let it known that in addition to the forthcoming full-size Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer SUVs, another new 3-row SUV was in the works for Jeep.   Auto Express UK reports today that this new SUV will technically be a 3-row version of the Grand Cherokee, but Jeep President and FCA Boss Mike Manley thinks it will not wear the Grand Cherokee name, instead taking on an new moniker.  His reasoning for not re-using the name is that the Grand Cherokee is such an iconic name and image. It would be like if Jeep dramatically changed the Wrangler, he'd face a customer revolt. 

    The last 3-row SUV Jeep sold was the 2006 - 2010 Jeep Commander. Jeep currently uses the Commander name on the Grand Commander, based on the smaller Cherokee, as a China-Only model. 

    Manley says that the segment the Grand Cherokee plays in covers both 2-row and 3-row SUVs, so the Grand Cherokee has only been covering about 40% of the potential market. Moving into this segment would allow Jeep to compete more directly with the Ford Explorer, Toyota Highlander, and Honda Pilot.

    FCA already sells a vehicle in the 3-row segment with the Dodge Durango which also rides on the same platform as the Jeep Grand Cherokee.  No future plans have been announced for the Dodge Durango, so it could be that this Jeep will take over for the Durango in the FCA lineup.

    FCA hopes to break ground on it's new facility by the end of 2nd quarter 2019 and have the first of the new 3-row SUVs rolling off the line by the end of 2020 as 2021 models.

    Related:
    Quick Drive: 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT Trackhawk

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    33 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Cool, but if the Grand Wagoneer is a 3 row, why have another one under another name.

    Me thinking that maybe a bit of over kill in the CUV/SUV segment.

    Well, Ford, GM, Toyota, etc each have multiple 3 row models, so there is precedent.. Explorer and two lengths of Expedition, Traverse, Tahoe, and Suburban, etc.

    So it sounds like GC will remain two row, then the new 3 row, then the full size BOF Wagoneer (SWB like the Tahoe) and Grand Wagoneer (LWB like the Suburban). 

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    I don't get why they need to have three 3-row SUVs.  I think a Wagoneer priced in the 30s to compete with Highlander, Pilot and Traverse and a luxury Grand Wagoneer 3- row in the $50k range makes a lot of sense.  They can cover a mainstream and an upscale with that strategy, much like how they have Cherokee and Grand Cherokee 2-row SUVs.  

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    11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I don't get why they need to have three 3-row SUVs.  I think a Wagoneer priced in the 30s to compete with Highlander, Pilot and Traverse and a luxury Grand Wagoneer 3- row in the $50k range makes a lot of sense.  They can cover a mainstream and an upscale with that strategy, much like how they have Cherokee and Grand Cherokee 2-row SUVs.  

    The GC is already in the 40s-50s in most trim levels--the GC-based 3-row will likely be in the same range, so the full size Ram-based models would be above that.

    I'd assume a full size BOF Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer would start in at least the Expedition/Tahoe/Yukon price range.. I can see the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer targeting a broad spectrum of the full size market from Expedition/Tahoe/Suburban up to Navigator/Denali/Escalade but with off road capable versions (ala Ram Power Wagon) available.. Jeep likes having a lot of trims on their models across a price range.  I recall a while back talk of a potential version at Range Rover price levels..Jeep is ambitious.  

    Can FCA pull it off?  Time will tell, but in recent years they seem to be hitting home runs w/ Jeep and Ram..

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    45 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I don't get why they need to have three 3-row SUVs.  I think a Wagoneer priced in the 30s to compete with Highlander, Pilot and Traverse and a luxury Grand Wagoneer 3- row in the $50k range makes a lot of sense.  They can cover a mainstream and an upscale with that strategy, much like how they have Cherokee and Grand Cherokee 2-row SUVs.  

    Traverse, Tahoe, Suburban = Acadia, Enclave, Yukon, Yukon XL = XT6, Escalade, Escalade ESV = Explorer, Expedition, Expedition Max = Highlander, Sequoia, Land Cruiser

    =

    Grand Cherokee XL, Wagoneer, Grand Wagoneer

    Even Nissan has it, though down a size class each with Rogue, Pathfinder, Armada

    Edited by Drew Dowdell
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    While the market is hot, they need to be in there.  I don't know if Dodge or Ram will get mid size or full size also, but Jeep is THE SUV brand at FCA..everything else is secondary. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    Jeep needs a unibody SUV starting around 30k with 3 rows.  You have Palisade, Tulluride, Atlas, Ascent, Highlander, Pilot, Traverse, Enclave, Explorer, Pathfinder all in that segment, I don't know if I forgot anyone there are so many, I just named ten 3-row SUVs.    Jeep who are the SUV people somehow are missing, so that is a must be in segment.  

    A luxury 3 row whether it be based on a Grand Cherokee or some other platform would be in that higher end, like Tahoe, Aviator, XT6 sort of money I'd think.  If Jeep thinks they can go up into Range Rover money they are delusional.

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    26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Jeep needs a unibody SUV starting around 30k with 3 rows.  You have Palisade, Tulluride, Atlas, Ascent, Highlander, Pilot, Traverse, Enclave, Explorer, Pathfinder all in that segment, I don't know if I forgot anyone there are so many, I just named ten 3-row SUVs.    Jeep who are the SUV people somehow are missing, so that is a must be in segment.  

    A luxury 3 row whether it be based on a Grand Cherokee or some other platform would be in that higher end, like Tahoe, Aviator, XT6 sort of money I'd think.  If Jeep thinks they can go up into Range Rover money they are delusional.

    Are you intentionally not understanding?

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    14 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Are you intentionally not understanding?

    I don't get how you make three 3-row Jeeps.  A 3-row Grand Cherokee is your Grand Wagoneer, why would you make both?  

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    5 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

    Well, Ford, GM, Toyota, etc each have multiple 3 row models, so there is precedent.. Explorer and two lengths of Expedition, Traverse, Tahoe, and Suburban, etc.

    So it sounds like GC will remain two row, then the new 3 row, then the full size BOF Wagoneer (SWB like the Tahoe) and Grand Wagoneer (LWB like the Suburban). 

    Sounds right to me. Honestly, they could being back the Commander name....

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    10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I don't get how you make three 3-row Jeeps.  A 3-row Grand Cherokee is your Grand Wagoneer, why would you make both?  

    No, the Grand Wagoneer is going to be the BOF Suburban/Escalade ESV type vehicle.  Go back and look at the 5 yr plan slides from last year.   The 3 row GC is a unibody Durango sized vehicle (E-segment 3 row).  It’s all there in the slides.  Time will tell how they execute that plan. 

    Screen Shot 2019-03-12 at 8.59.55 AM.png

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    If the Durango is retired and replaced with a "Jeep" vehicle, it is more proof that FCA's plan all along was to take Dodge out behind the woodshed, and kill it dead.  Given their completely nonexistent attempts at broadening Chryslers's model range,  that has surely been the plan for Chrysler brand too.

    Just like Daimler Chrysler, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles is pronounced with the "Chrysler" part silent.

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    10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I don't get how you make three 3-row Jeeps.  A 3-row Grand Cherokee is your Grand Wagoneer, why would you make both?  

    3-Row Grand Cherokee = Traverse/Explorer/Acadia/XT6
    3-Row Wagoneer = Tahoe/Expedition/Yukon/Escalade
    3-Row Grand Wagoneer = Suburban/Expedition Max/Yukon XL/Escalade ESV

    What don't you understand?

    The Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer are going to be made on the Ram 1500 frame.

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    Just now, riviera74 said:

    What happened to the Jeep Commander?  That seems like a perfect name for this 3-row CUV.

    The Jeep Commander was based on the prior generation Grand Cherokee. When they went to the current generation, they decided to give the 3-row to Dodge instead of Jeep in order to build a replacement Durango.  When the 2011 Cherokee was being developed, Chrysler was in turmoil, there was not enough money to do a GC, and Durango, and Commander. The Dakota, Aspen, old Durango, and Pacifica also died in this time-frame.  So in order to cover both Dodge and Jeep, the Commander was axed and Dodge got the 3-row.

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    The Commander was odd in that it had the same wheelbase as the WK GC.    I assume the 3rd row on the Commander was pretty cramped... (WK wheelbase was 109.x, WK2 GC wheelbase is 114.8, 3rd gen Durango wheelbase is 119.9). 

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    5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    The Commander was odd in that it had the same wheelbase as the WK GC.    I assume the 3rd row on the Commander was pretty cramped... (WK wheelbase was 109.x, WK2 GC wheelbase is 114.8, 3rd gen Durango wheelbase is 119.9). 

    Yeah, children only and with the seats up, there was virtually zero cargo space. 

    maxresdefault.jpg

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    I never liked the WK generation of GCs, as with most everything Chrysler built in the mid 00s, the interiors were cheap and nasty..wasn't a good period for them.   I remember back in '05 checking out the new WK (my WJ was 5 years old then) and thinking the interior was garbage and the exterior styling was bland and weird (those headlight humps in the hood--ick). ..not as bad as the Liberty or Nitro, though.  

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    21 minutes ago, Potluck said:

    just what the market needs... 3 more huge suvs  we didn't have enough before.

    Roomy for us big people and better than cars in most cases which are even more cramped.

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    3 row SUVs are the station wagons/minivans of today..as long as there are families in the US, there are going to be family wagons of some form. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    10 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

    3 row SUVs are the station wagons/minivans of today..as long as there are families in the US, there are going to be family wagons of some form. 

    I'll take a Roadmaster Estate please... 

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    Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

    I'll take a Roadmaster Estate please... 

    They should offer an Estate trim on the Enclave w/ faux wood side paneling, extra chrome, whitewall tires, hood ornament, etc. 

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    That 5 year plan shows 1 3-row F segment and 1 3-row E segment.  So if there is a 3rd it has to be D segment 3 row, a la a 3 row front drive Cherokee.

    Which is all fine I just wonder how they manage all these Jeeps without overlap, they want a vehicle below Renegade , you are looking at potentially 10 Jeep SUVs.  How sustainable is that?

    Edited by smk4565
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    2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    That 5 year plan shows 1 3-row F segment and 1 3-row E segment.  So if there is a 3rd it has to be D segment 3 row, a la a 3 row front drive Cherokee.

    That plan also includes China... and China already gets a 3-row Cherokee called the Grand Commander. 

    Again, the Wagoneer is the SWB full-size. The Grand Wagoneer is the LWB full-size. 

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    3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    That plan also includes China... and China already gets a 3-row Cherokee called the Grand Commander. 

    Again, the Wagoneer is the SWB full-size. The Grand Wagoneer is the LWB full-size. 

    Seems redundant and to do it as a new entrant into a shrinking segment to boot.

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    Just now, smk4565 said:

    Seems redundant and to do it as a new entrant into a shrinking segment to boot.

    It's a highly profitable segment, especially when they can build it on the truck frame.  Most of the Dev work there is done.

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    40 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    That 5 year plan shows 1 3-row F segment and 1 3-row E segment.  So if there is a 3rd it has to be D segment 3 row, a la a 3 row front drive Cherokee.

    Which is all fine I just wonder how they manage all these Jeeps without overlap, they want a vehicle below Renegade , you are looking at potentially 10 Jeep SUVs.  How sustainable is that?

    Reading comprehension counts.  Note it says F segment Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer.  2 models.  The D-segment 3 row is a 4th model.  Cars are a dying niche in NA...SUVs and trucks are the growth niches. No different than what Ford or GM are doing.  And there always will be some overlap between the lines, like they have with the Compass and Cherokee now. 

    And of course because of your biases, you conveniently overlook how many CUVs and SUVs Audi, BMW and M-B each have now and will have in 5 years...

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    11 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    Thanks for the update on the last Commander.  I still think the name Commander belongs on this NEW Jeep 3-row CUV.

    It would certainly work. I think Liberty could work also. 

    The wrench in the gears is the Chinese Grand Commander which is smaller than what this GC based 3-row will be. They'd have to be okay with having the names mixed up as they cross the Pacific. 

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    3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    It would certainly work. I think Liberty could work also. 

    The wrench in the gears is the Chinese Grand Commander which is smaller than what this GC based 3-row will be. They'd have to be okay with having the names mixed up as they cross the Pacific. 

    Well, different names in different markets is nothing new for Jeep...the Liberty was called the Cherokee outside NA.    

    Looking back at the slide, I see yet another 3-row...'Low D 3-row' between the next gen Cherokee and Grand Commander...wonder what that will be..another model for China?  Maybe 'low' as in a more wagon-like silhouette?  Not sure if the US needs a 3 row compact...

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    8 hours ago, daves87rs said:

    Looking at that chart reminds me of that baby Jeep.....still not sure how that is going to work.....

    I think that was intended for Europe and Asia...something Fiat Panda sized. 

    Edited by Robert Hall
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    4 minutes ago, jry said:

    How can the new Jeep play in the same segment when the additional row will add at least ten inches to the length.

    Because there is some overlap in the segment.  A lot of people who buy Explorers never need the 3rd row, so a GC would be just fine.  However, Jeep customers who want a 3-row have no place to go.  Technically, different segments, but with so much overlap they are often counted as one.

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    17 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Because there is some overlap in the segment.  A lot of people who buy Explorers never need the 3rd row, so a GC would be just fine.  However, Jeep customers who want a 3-row have no place to go.  Technically, different segments, but with so much overlap they are often counted as one.

    I understand what you're saying. I think that FCA would be wise to place this in the next segment up. Think about taking the Cadillac CT6 and placing it with the BMW 5 or E Class, Benz. Dimensionally, it belongs in the next segment up. In that arena, the CT6 shows up as a good value. FCA should be doing the same thing. I'm sure that this will not be as big as the Expedition or Large Yukon/Tahoe, but it sure isn't going to be as short as the current Grand Cherokee . Maybe it'll be the size of the new offerings by Hyundai and Kia, which as an Expedition EL owner, IMO are too small. We'll see.....

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    4 minutes ago, jry said:

    I understand what you're saying. I think that FCA would be wise to place this in the next segment up. Think about taking the Cadillac CT6 and placing it with the BMW 5 or E Class, Benz. Dimensionally, it belongs in the next segment up. In that arena, the CT6 shows up as a good value. FCA should be doing the same thing. I'm sure that this will not be as big as the Expedition or Large Yukon/Tahoe, but it sure isn't going to be as short as the current Grand Cherokee . Maybe it'll be the size of the new offerings by Hyundai and Kia, which as an Expedition EL owner, IMO are too small. We'll see.....

    It will be the size of the Durango most likely. 

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    11 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

    Hope so...it is going to be tiny!

    To put the size in perspective..the current Fiat Panda Cross is a 4dr CUV about the same length as a 1980s Jeep CJ-7.  So it's Jeep sized.. ;)

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    Just now, Robert Hall said:

    To put the size in perspective..the current Fiat Panda Cross is a 4dr CUV about the same length as a 1980s Jeep CJ-7.  So it's Jeep sized.. ;)

    Actually not bad then....

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