Cremazie

What is keeping GM behind?

36 posts in this topic

I wonder what people feel what GM lacks most, is it powertrain, fit/finish, comfort features or looks(inside and out). I feel personally that currently they are lacking in plain looks, they are well engineered but the looks of the new stuff is lame.. most still look cheap or give me the feeling that I am in something old!
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It's packaging a car right IMO. I could easily give two craps about front-drive, small engine, or the looks, if a decent tranny was thrown in a lot of these cars. Can a V-6 get a stick, or at least a shiftable auto? Does it have to be a pedestrian conventional auto ALL the time? decent looking and decent sized wheels (and wheel covers for the steelies) would be grand too. Those two things go a long way....
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Powertrain, fit/finish/quality of materials, and appearance. Too old-fashioned, too cheap looking, too boring or grotesquely ugly.
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people judge first on appearance, then by quality (atleast most) if something is "God Aweful" like my father puts is, then it probably wont get a majority rule, if something is OMG gotta have this car it might... some people buy cars that dont even run due to styling (classics or old cars)
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Just a little less refined, whether its the steering feel, the engine smoothness, or chasis and suspension.
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Just a little less refined, whether its the steering feel, the engine smoothness, or chasis and suspension.

[post="12155"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I guess that is really why most models feel like older cars.. whatever it is they are still not up to par with rivals!
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Primarily: perception.
I see no great gaps in the suggested reasons up top.

[post="12149"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I'm with you, balthy. In my albeit limited time riding in and driving supposedly superior imported competition, I'm usually left asking myself "What's the big deal? Is this really that much better than a GM?"

However, GM has to actively work at changing that perception. Superior product obviously is the key, and innovative product-based marketing plays a close second. They need to be the ones setting the bar on all fronts.
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I don't know if GM is really lacking that far behind on their newer products. Back in the day GM was the innovator, now they are the ones to rip. Is the new civics interior really that great? If that was the Cobalt's interior, GM would have been nailed to the wall for it. What's lacking is the press and the public to start recognizing GM for it's positive as well as it's negative traits, not just their negative traits. GM does need to do more stand out products, and jump on the band wagon of being first again (which they sort of have with the Solstice & Sky). By not doing a 300, or . . . they don't give people the opportunity to go WOW! Without the WOW product (Solstice) you don't sell the other products (like the G6).
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interior design and materials are still lacking. A 2006 Cadillac DTS interior is still worlds behind an Acura TSX interior. and the TSX has been out for years, now.
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Bias expectations against GM. Stupid coments about interior materials and how soft they are. It's not a pillow people, it's a door panel. Anyone remember when cars had machined stainless steel <the real stuff> on their dashboard? Soft touch my ass. ;-) Stupid comments about how a 4-speed auto is not as smooth as a 7 speed, 6 speed or 5 speed. Accord 5 speed autos have NEVER been smoother then the GM 4speed. 98% of the people who aren't members of this website probably don't know how many gears are in their automatic. Stupid comments about OHC being better then OHV because it's newer technology. Sure, it's newer technology, by about 10 years. OHC has been around since the mid 1920s at least. GM makes some of the finest OHV engines out there. People complained when GM shoehorned the pushrod corvette engine into the CTS-v. Yelled that it should have been a northstar. Fine, put a northstar in... and LOSE AT LEAST 80 HP!! Would people have complained if they put a Hemi in there? It's just kneejerk venom towards any OHV GM engine. The fucking footbrake. How many times has the CTS been dinged for having a foot activated parking break? How many people here know what kind of parking break the G35 Coupe w/auto has? I know... I sat in one today. I've never heard of C&D bashing Infinity for it. The fact that every automotive journalist does a test of a car only in the mindset of an automotive performance enthusiast. People here are guilty of it also. The only good car is the BMW 5-series. Period, that's it. That is the summery of every automotive review you'll EVER READ! I have for years wanted to start an automotive magazine that reviews cars based on the manufacturers intended purpose. Who in their right mind puts a non-GNX Buick through a slalom expecting it to handle like a corvette? Where is the DTS Drag Racing Federation of America that C&D keeps reviewing FWD dragsters for? They'll ding the DTS for having soft cushy seats....but it's SUPPOSED to be a soft cushy car! It's the homoganizing of the car industry. A few editors at large magazines have decided that BMW is the only manufacturer to make a car worth anything. The market is reponding to the percived quality and status. Then the competiors try and emulate the leader. So in the end we'll all be driving nearly identical cars with different badges on the fender. Congradulations. Now, my mother, who would have loved a Riviera or god willing an Eldorado because they were good looking <to her> and front wheel drive can't buy one.
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It's not BMW's fault GM isn't building a Riviera or Eldorado. GM seems really convinced that an SUV or four-door sedan is supposed to be in every garage. Buick and Caddy's foreign competitors all pack a four-place two-door. They could easily make one, just choose not to.
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Oldsmoboi, I have to agree with you. I hate what is happening to cars, they are becoming homogenized. There are so few unique characteristics anymore. I don't want to drive a car that is perfect. Everyone seems to want purely refined cars, or white bread if you will.
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The American car has lost so much of it's uniqueness already. I don't want American clones of German and Japanese cars. I don't want to drive a Chevy Impala Accord.
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REPUTATION. Caused by GMs own ineptitude over the years. They have the strongest dealer network in the country. They have the most loyal consumers in the marketplace. They have had 50% controlling share of the marketplace. At some point in time GM must accept responsibility for turning customers away with consistently underperforming and shoddy cars. In current times overall refinement is still lacking. Reputation, however, will continue to hinder GM because they have all these customers that explored the limitless posibilities the world has to offer and decided they were "never gonna go back". GM has to produce showstopping vehicles that offer nothing but the best combination of the most desirable design, powertrains, sophistication, and class in order to get people looking who otherwise wouldn't. The current Impala ain't gonna do that. It will help stop some of the erosion because it's an otherwise good car. But Mr. and Mrs. Smith going to get the Accord no matter what because they've already owned three that have been perfect won't look twice. Solve that GM.
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It's not BMW's fault GM isn't building a Riviera or Eldorado.  GM seems really convinced that an SUV or four-door sedan is supposed to be in every garage.  Buick and Caddy's foreign competitors all pack a four-place two-door.  They could easily make one, just choose not to.

[post="12290"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



Remember the first rule of Automotive Journalism. If it isn't a BMW, automatically deduct 10 points. Extra 5 points deducted if it's a GM and an additional two if it's a Buick, Olds or Pontiac.

Rule 2. If it is front wheel drive, no matter how well it handles or doesn't have torque steer, automatically deduct 20 points.

Rule 3. Eight point deduction for a non-alfanumaric name.
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I have owned several GM cars, too many to count and Japanese....and the GM cars haven't been any where near shoddy...they all performed excellent...perfectly reliable, very good interiors. The heavy handed criticism of GM has gotten old. Much overstatement by the press and critics in general.
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Problem is, if you've experienced vintage American autos, the "attention to detail" in modern foreign makes cannot compare, so for us, it all comes off as overblown hot air. Unfortunately, there's not enough of 'us' to turn around current erroneous perceptions.
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Problem is, if you've experienced vintage American autos, the "attention to detail" in modern foreign makes cannot compare, so for us, it all comes off as overblown hot air. Unfortunately, there's not enough of 'us' to turn around current erroneous perceptions.

[post="12384"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I think we're talking about the GM of now.
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I know, but the point is: the perception difference & the actual difference today is very small to nil in most areas. Also- 'refinement' & 'ATD' are widely interpretable and it still pales (talking ATD here) to vintage vehicles.
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