GM/Ford Nazi Collaberation

[AxelTheRed]

It really hasn't been mentioned very much...or at all, but there seems to be absoulutely no closure as to wheter or not either company activley helped the Nazis. Critics say they knew and willingly helped build tanks and aircraft and whatnot, but the companies themselves say the Nazis wrested control of the factories away from them.

Believe me, there's nothing that I'd rather believe more than that Ford and GM actually did have their plants taken over, but with all the criticism I found online, the whole thing gets a bit fuzzy.

So I guess let's try to get some closure on this topic.

Edited October 19, 2006 by AxelTheRed

[balthazar]

In the event that you are being serious; you are talking -at least in General Motors' case- about Opel.

GM purchased Opel in 1929. The German government siezed Opel's properties shortly after war was declared in 1939. From that point onward, GM had absolutely no control over Opel's facilities- it was operated to whatever capacity it was by the Nazis. Any tanks, trucks or aircraft assembled in those plants were built by the Nazis not General Motors.

As the war drew to a close, GM was told they were still considered the owners of Opel's properties, tho in fact GM had no clear information on even the condition of the properties & facilities. On 12-1-1947, GM's financial Policy Committee appointed a study group to evaluate & assess Opel with the intent of regaining control over Opel. The report was mixed and the Financial Policy Comm was against resuming production. With further study/discussion and the support of Alfred Sloan, General Motors resumed operational control of Adam Opel A.G. on 11-1-1948.

You now have full closure.

[thegriffon]

It's standard practice for companies controlled by enemy nationals to be at least temporarily confiscated by the government of the country they operate in. In addition, as a national socialist state, major business decisions were made by the Nazi government, even at those companies owned and run by German interests (just as it is in China today)—even product designations were assigned by the government. It is ridiculous to assume that an Opel plant in Germany even could report to the US during this time.

[CARBIZ]

Why would we want to dig up dirt on American companies that were involved in dealings with Nazi Germany when there is more fertile ground with current Japanese companies and their involvement....?

Nissan would be great fodder, considering they were set up by the military bank in Japan to build tanks and trucks in Manchuria, using slave labor.

I don't suppose you'd find that on the company website, though, would ya?

[Flybrian]

There's you summation.

[Variance]

Does anybody really give a damn about any of it now? I sure don't.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Does anybody really give a damn about any of it now? I sure don't.

206674[/snapback]

In the world of politics, Japan is an ally, and so is Germany. 2 countries we went to war with many decades ago.

[daves87rs]

Does anybody really give a damn about any of it now? I sure don't.

206674[/snapback]

[balthazar]

It's history, and automotive history at that.

FAR more interesting (and significant) than comparing lower dash plastic softness.....

[Cory Wolfe]

Does anybody really give a damn about any of it now? I sure don't.

206674[/snapback]

[Drew Dowdell]

It's history, and automotive history at that.

FAR more interesting (and significant) than comparing lower dash plastic softness.....

206707[/snapback]

[razoredge]

Well, you brain washed fools should give a good damn about it. They are not "our allies" They are only after their own financial gains, looking out for their own people and interests.............something Americans might want to let rub off on them. Asia just realized there was a far easier way to gain control of America, through its new generation of gulable, liberal, bleeding heart, def dumb and blind, wannabe idealists.

[Variance]

Well, you brain washed fools should give a good damn about it. They are not "our allies" They are only after their own financial gains, looking out for their own people and interests.............something Americans might want to let rub off on them. Asia just realized there was a far easier way to gain control of America, through its new generation of gulable, liberal, bleeding heart, def dumb and blind, wannabe idealists.

206909[/snapback]

[razoredge]

Exactly..........your eyes are rolled up in your head, like a zombie

The looks on your faces in another 30 years when reality slaps you upside the face will be priceless.

[Variance]

Exactly..........your eyes are rolled up in your head, like a zombie

The looks on your faces in another 30 years when reality slaps you upside the face will be priceless.

206914[/snapback]

The only things that are priceless are your silly theories and ideas about Japan and Germany wanting to take over America.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, you brain washed fools should give a good damn about it. They are not "our allies" They are only after their own financial gains, looking out for their own people and interests.............something Americans might want to let rub off on them. Asia just realized there was a far easier way to gain control of America, through its new generation of gulable, liberal, bleeding heart, def dumb and blind, wannabe idealists.

206909[/snapback]

it's the republicans that are against higher import tarrifs, it's the republicans that have a fiscal policy that benefits only the super wealthy, it's the republicans that are against the unions...

[balthazar]

The looks on your faces in another 30 years when reality slaps you upside the face will be priceless.

[Intrepidation]

Japan is taking over America. Not through soldiers and weapons, but through technology. Many the big successful companies these days, particularly in the technology business, are Japanese. Sony for eample, sells TVs, DVD Players, Stereos, the Playstation, and more. We by millions of the products every year, and the profits go to Japan. We buy so many products from Japan, even pencils and pens...and cars. So yeah, in essance we're being taken over by the Japanese, if you wanna look at it that way. How many things are made in America by American companies these days?

[Cory Wolfe]

Razor... you just lost the last ounce of respect I had for you. Have fun earning it back.

[FAPTurbo]

North America got complacent and lazy in a lot of ways. The Japanese are very resourceful and innovative and their history proves it, and therefore, they began to dominate the market.

My dad said the first TV he bought was an RCA back in the 70's, an American one, and it crapped out within six months. He decided to buy a Panasonic and it's still going strong to this day.

[Cory Wolfe]

Same thing with our Sony. My parents bought it after their honeymoon, and it's the only TV we've had that's lasted more than 5 years.

[CaddyXLR-V]

It's funny how other countries are perceived as a threat, even when they have the same overall goal as us. Why can't we grow, with our allies, instead of being xenophobic?

[ocnblu]

A lot of things are invented here, then copied and refined elsewhere, especially Japan.

[razoredge]

It's funny how other countries are perceived as a threat, even when they have the same overall goal as us. Why can't we grow, with our allies, instead of being xenophobic?

207022[/snapback]

Thats not true, other countries have their populations overall welfare, economic and industrial growth as their priority. This is not the case in this country. In this country our governments only concern is the bottom line we can show the wall street crowd at the end of the day. Unfortunantly over the past three decades the only way to do this has been to sell off our assets. Selling assests reads as great profit. Simply operating assets for the typically slow profits has not been enough to please the wall street crowd.

Which brings me to my "xenophobic" views, what ever the hell that is.

These assets were built and developed and made successful by the generations of Americans that fought off the repressive totalitarian governments that were trying to take over the world through force. After we went into great debt to beat them into the ground, we went further into debt to rebuild them, because its our nature to feel badly for the down trodden (as long as they are not our own). Then after we rebuilt their countries, our corporate world then inplace from the rebuilds, taught how to gain economic strenght in the American market. With low, near slave labor this was a very easy challange. Somewhere in there it dawned on these countries that it was not necessary to use weapons to capture our economic wealth, industrial might and eventually purchase our assets.

Hows that summary ? Any questions !

Well at least they dont bomb us anymore......heres a little victory dance.......

Edited October 21, 2006 by razoredge

[razoredge]

The black and white console TV Mom and Dad bought after they built our house in 58 was still working fine in the 70's and was only replaced for a color.

I just threw out their old General Electric refridge about 8 years ago. I still have no idea what I was thinking. We have been through 2, on our 3rd. since.

We are on our 3rd TV in 18 years as well.

My parents old Electrolux canister vacumn was still doing a fine job in the mid 90's when Dad died, I have no idea where it is now. It still sealed properly and did not throw out half the dust it picked up due to warped plastic sealing surfaces. We have been through 4 new vacumn cleaners in these 18 years.

3 VCR's

2 computers

5 coffee makers ? maybe more

1 sterio in my shop, new Japanese, lasted on week past its year warrrantee

3 microwaves

So YEA I can really see how much better products are these days than in the past. Here, let me do another new age American dance for ya, Id hate to loose your........respect..........

[balthazar]

>>"Hows that summary ?"<<

You pretty much nailed it, razor.

Don't forget- most here are far too young to have seen much change in their lifetimes. The long-term patterns are out of their range of vision. So are the cracks of today, apparently. I guess the fleeting hope that they'd clean up Tomorrow for this country are pretty much in the sh!tter, eh?

[Justin Bimmer]

So, I'm pro american..... is it bad that i buy mayo that is made by uniliver, a french company? I really have tried Kraft, but it just isnt as good. My family is really good about buying as much american as we can. Whilrpool, Maytag, Hoover, Kenmore, but even the stuff we get now from america is japanized where its built to break so you buy a new one........ it is the JAPANESE that came up with planned obsolencense based on quality....... americans came up with planned obsolencense based on design...... at least thats my opinion.

[razoredge]

There has also been all the high tolerence, passive, liberal, its a beautiful world, Disney world idealistic, one day we'll all live in peace, teacher/school influence. There is no consideration as to how things came to be what they are today in this country, all taken for granted.

Well one day aint here yet, and we have a diverse population that producing children to think about.....and here our own children get bent out of shape if we bring up the topic "wait a minute, this isnt going to all be a bed of roses down the road".

Def, dumb and blind

"Like pied piper, led rats through the streets"

[Variance]

Razor, just what is it that you want? How long are we supposed to dwell on this?

This is why I hate when old Nazi/WWII bull&#036;h&#33; is brought up here.

[razoredge]

Its not the point that what you buy off the shelf may or most likely came from somewhere else. Its the means by which this transition took place. Its not the consumers fault. It was greed and the could care less attitude from the leaders within this country, both political and corporate, they simply dont give a damn. They do not care about tommorows price tag, only todays pay check. Imagine running a household or your personal long term planing like our governments and corporate leaders do ?........Oh thats right, thats exactly what most Americans are doing now, with credit cards, extended loans, consolidated loans, overdraft checking accounts, and finally bankruptcy lawyers.......

[Flybrian]

The Nazi connection is only relevant isasmuch as a corporation who actively participated in the war on the Axis side, manufacturing war materiale in clear violation of disarmament treaties, knowingly utilizing slave and prison labor, profiting from it, and never paying recriminations and/or never acknowledging or apologizing for their roles. Enter the infamous Krupps Trial. Seized factories- whether it be Opel plants in Germany or Douglas assembly lines in Japan - are obviously not part of this as they were seized.

Many companies actively participated on the German, Italian, and Japanese side and the majority of them have paid for their crimes today. Those few that haven't deserve to be ostricized for ignoring a disgusting chapter in their history and the one country that still refuses to atone for their many of their worst sins (Japan) shouldn't be given a free pass 'just because' its been OMG so long ago. The closed-mindedness of Japanese leaders personally disgusts me to this day.

[razoredge]

Razor, just what is it that you want? How long are we supposed to dwell on this?

This is why I hate when old Nazi/WWII bull&#036;h&#33; is brought up here.

207182[/snapback]

Well Variance.........I have said much, I guess perhaps the question is........."what is it you want ?" You have said little, how is it you see it and to what benefit of yours is this whole thing going ? I dont feel threatend by the "Nazi" or Germany, that is passed, but I know how we came to be and I will stand proudly and unwilling will I give it away. Today we have other forms of war going on, its not this peachy dream from where Im sitting. So tell how its going where your sitting and maybe I could understand your problem with the view from my window.

[Variance]

Many companies actively participated on the German, Italian, and Japanese side and the majority of them have paid for their crimes today. Those few that haven't deserve to be ostricized for ignoring a disgusting chapter in their history and the one country that still refuses to atone for their many of their worst sins (Japan) shouldn't be given a free pass 'just because' its been OMG so long ago. The closed-mindedness of Japanese leaders personally disgusts me to this day.

207187[/snapback]

I think Japan atoned plenty when we atomic bombed them into near-obilivion. And I think choosing to fight alongside us in Iraq makes them a little more square with us.

Well Variance.........I have said much, I guess perhaps the question is........."what is it you want ?" You have said little, how is it you see it and to what benefit of yours is this whole thing going ? I dont feel threatend by the "Nazi" or Germany, that is passed, but I know how we came to be and I will stand proudly and unwilling will I give it away. Today we have other forms of war going on, its not this peachy dream from where Im sitting. So tell how its going where your sitting and maybe I could understand your problem with the view from my window.

207190[/snapback]

From where I'm sitting...the only real enemy we have now is a certain group called al-Qaeda and anyone who supports them.

I just don't see this big, evil economic plot aganist America being undertaken by certain foreign nations that you seem to. That's all.

[Cory Wolfe]

I think Japan atoned plenty when we atomic bombed them into near-obilivion. And I think choosing to fight alongside us in Iraq makes them a little more square with us.

From where I'm sitting...the only real enemy we have now is a certain group called al-Qaeda and anyone who supports them.

I just don't see this big, evil economic plot aganist America being undertaken by certain foreign nations that you seem to. That's all.

207199[/snapback]

[razoredge]

So what is it the hero in your sig. sees ?

"Old redneck native born and raised proud Americans that care about the job, material, and land resources in their own country, need to die".............he looks pretty pissed, I bet he could prolly take me too..........

[Flybrian]

I think Japan atoned plenty when we atomic bombed them into near-obilivion. And I think choosing to fight alongside us in Iraq makes them a little more square with us.

207199[/snapback]

The atomic bombings caused more psychological damage than anything. Anyone else remember that stink the Japanese government raised when the USPS wanted to include an image of the atomic bombing on our commemorative WWII stamps? They raised no similar objections about the inclusion of the attack on earl Harbor, nor did they volunteer to have their atrocities in Manchuria acknowledged on a stamp.

Pretty selective memory, eh?

That's what I'm referring to, for the record. The Japanese government still refuses to acknowledge or accept formal responsibility for atrocities committed by the Imperial Army in Korea and Manchuria in China, most famously the Rape of Nanking where at least half a million noncombatants were slaughtered by occupying forces. In the instances where the government has apologized, these apologies still didn't recongize that Japan broke any international law or general military convention. Its a sad fact that up until the 1980s and 90s, Japanese school textbooks painted the war as Japanese self defense and preservation and even today many Japanese books simply don't include any reference to the war crimes committed in WWII. Worse still, most Japanese citizens acknowledge these facts of history, yet many in the government still refuse to.

As far as helping us 'fight' in Iraq, what a joke. The Japanese military contingent consisted of 600 troops sent to Samawa where they were encircled and defended by Australian and British forces while they spent their deployment performing non-combat duties for 26 months. Then, they were withdrawn to Kuwait. And all the while, most of the cabinet ministers back and Japan hated it.

[razoredge]

No one ever said the Japanese were stupid..........thats a privilage reserved for naive, brain washed, American puppets.

this all came free ya know, to complacient, lazy, slackers. It just happened, no one lifted a finger, got a little blister, skinned a knuckle, dripped some blood on the ground........just a big fat joy ride.....so I see no reason why we shouldnt give it all away

[Drew Dowdell]

I have a 1971 Kirby vacuum cleaner that is still going strong. Upgraded it to new, allergin blocker bags and it'll still suck the nails out of the floorboard.

If it ever dies I'll buy another Kirby. Probably used, but it does show that if you want something that will last, you have to be willing to spend some money on it. Kirbys are freaking expensive.

That $68 dollar Samsung DVD player from walmart may last you 3 years, but at least you won't feel guilty about throwing it out when it dies. If it were an RCA <when they were American>, and it cost $99 at walmart, people would cry to high heaven about crappy american products if it died at 5 years instead of 3.

[deftonesfan867]

Thought we weren't supposed to bring up politics? Anyways...Razor are you one of those people that likes to tell everyone else what they believe is wrong and your always right? Becuase when I view your post thats the feeling I get. I don't like to really argue much and this IS the net, but I hate it when people act like people should hang onto there every word because its impending doom if they don't. Really, stop with the whole conspiriacie crap. Everyone has opinions yes, but telling people they don't know what they're talking about doesn't make you look credible or intelligent. It makes you look assanine and cocky. Please stop it already.

[razoredge]

Thought we weren't supposed to bring up politics? Anyways...Razor are you one of those people that likes to tell everyone else what they believe is wrong and your always right? Becuase when I view your post thats the feeling I get. I don't like to really argue much and this IS the net, but I hate it when people act like people should hang onto there every word because its impending doom if they don't. Really, stop with the whole conspiriacie crap. Everyone has opinions yes, but telling people they don't know what they're talking about  doesn't make you look credible or intelligent. It makes you look assanine and cocky. Please stop it already.

207413[/snapback]

your not going to start crying are you ?

If this is politics, then C&G is a tricycle forum

I am assanine, thats why I fit in so well around here...............

I am cocky ! Hardening !... its what happens, I did not used to be

I harshly scrutinize and evaluate !

I believe it was a few others whos world started recently that were telling me that what I think and have witnessed in my life is wrong ?

I believe I only stated things as they have gone down, in history

I am not living in the past, Im seeing today and look back to the past and see how we got here, for both the good and the bad.

I believe the Japanese are very smart people that dont need to be hit over the head more than twice to figure out a better way to get to the desired goal

I believe most Americans are naive and complacient about whats going on worldwide today and the effects it will have on our diverse population and assets in the future, let alone currently. Its seems impossible to get anyone to see the current state of affairs.......even though on this site it is the common contributing factor to the state of why we proclaim to be here _ _ _ _ _ _ _ you can fill in the blanks.

I believe you all should believe the exact opposite

I just always like to add some fuel for thought even though I just make it all up as I go........

Now lets stop scrutinizing me and look at the big picture, I didnt paint it, I simple give my interpretation.

[Intrepidation]

*watches anime*

Razor have you ever played Metal Gear Solid? Seems like a game you'd enjoy.

[deftonesfan867]

Crying??? Hmmmm.....

[CARBIZ]

Whoa, I go away for the weekend and a fight breaks out!

I will buy North American whenever I can. I just spent a fortune and bought a 42" Hitachi plasm TV - because I don't have a choice. Japan Inc. already railroaded the American consumer electronics industry out of business 30 years ago.

My dad's Zenith Chromacolor II 26" TV was purchased in 1969 and I inherited it when he passed away in 1986. I didn't use it for very long - the plastic protective shield had yellowed with age and you could have cooked an egg on the wood cabinet - but it still worked! More anecdotal evidence, though.

[aaaantoine]

Sometimes I have no choice but to purchase something made in China, due to both product availability and my generally empty pockets.

[rkmdogs]

Razor you and I have disagreed plenty in the past, but on this issue,

you are right on...100% !!!!

If you want to discuss atrocities, ring into the bit about Henry Ford.

How when the communists took over Russia, and killed the Czar during the revolution back in the teens, he abandoned the workers that he had sent over there to build a factory and make cars, because most of them were Jewish,

and he was an ardent anti-semetic.

On that factor, when WW II came along, he vocally agreed with

Hitler about eradicating people of that faith!

These facts have been published in some of the biographies about him,

but others have hushed it up!

Edited October 23, 2006 by rkmdogs

[balthazar]

Difference being, HF never directly acted on his opinions. The 'worker abandonment' story sounds fishy; why would most of the workers be Jewish when he was anti-semetic?

I've read a number of his writings on anti-semitism- they at least were not in anyway radical or sensational. They were merely personal opinions of one man. There are those that would attempt to tear down & discredit Ford's great many accomplishments in light of these opinions against Jews, as if an industrialist by nature must also be a unilaterally-diplomatic humanitarian.

[razoredge]

I'd like to make a apology of sorts, especially to deftones. I just get up tight about people turning a blind eye to whats going on today. It is to bad people intrepret that as my saying "the sky is falling". Im really only saying the sky is not as brilliant blue as those that dont have the cloud over their house see it. Thats all, everyone is going to see it as they interpret it or on how it agrees with their future. Problem is, typically things that are overlooked come back and kick you in the ass...HARD !

As for "breeds", we all have our little quirks, I have seemed to inherit the Brit tendencies for nobility, loyaltiy, and the will to stands ones ground till the head is cleanly severed............ The Jewish people are not without their own......tendencies. If Henry Ford pointed a few out........oh well. The Isralites have always had their own opinion about the "rest" of us as well. The path they have trod is stained a bloody scarlet red too.

Let the first stone cast, land directly upon my head........beam me up Scotty !

[deftonesfan867]

Apology accepted. I'm not saying the world is all rainbows and puppy dogs, just that NOBODY knows what the future holds, so no one opinion is right or wrong for that matter. The world has changed alot over the last century, but thats life. Things happen that are inevitable and might come along and take everyone by suprise. You cant always use the past to predict the future however.

[rkmdogs]

  You cant always use the past to predict the future however.

207870[/snapback]

BUT....... if you don't LEARN from the past and correct mistakes,

you WILL surely repeat them!

AND that will occur in the future!!!!

[rkmdogs]

Difference being, HF never directly acted on his opinions. The 'worker abandonment' story sounds fishy; why would most of the workers be Jewish when he was anti-semetic?

207835[/snapback]

Because he considered them "expendable", and better fitted to fit in with the

"worker class" over in Russia.

It was in one of the biographies that I read @ Greenfield.