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hyperv6

Is This Going on in Your Area?

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In today's Akron Beacon Journel they reported a local Toyota Dealer [Ganley Toyota] had discovered 1995-2000 Tacoma pick up trucks with frames rusted through just in front of the rear spring mount. They included pictures and all.

They say Ganley found the first one last fall and now have 20 broken frame trucks on the lot. Toyota has sent in engineers and have been looking into this.

Here is the odd thing... The trucks are worth about $3,000- $5,000K and Toyota is paying over Blue Book for them. Some of these trucks have 200,000 miles and they are giving $11,000-$12,000 for these trucks.

I know companies will do some good will but if one dealer has 20 trucks already and of the 800,000 [Thier number because I don't really know] built in those 5 years this could get expensive for some good will.

I note also that a co-worker of mine has a 1990 Toyots that also is broken in the same place.

This may be worth watching as I have seen Toyotas rust out badly every where else but I have seldom seen a truck frame rust in half.

This could be a major black eye for Toyota if this is wide spread in the rust belt states.

No recalls and this is only being handeled if someone comes in and complaines.

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In today's Akron Beacon Journel they reported a local Toyota Dealer [Ganley Toyota] had discovered 1995-2000 Tacoma pick up trucks with frames rusted through just in front of the rear spring mount. They included pictures and all.

They say Ganley found the first one last fall and now have 20 broken frame trucks on the lot. Toyota has sent in engineers and have been looking into this.

Here is the odd thing... The trucks are worth about $3,000- $5,000K and Toyota is paying over Blue Book for them. Some of these trucks have 200,000 miles and they are giving $11,000-$12,000 for these trucks.

I know companies will do some good will but if one dealer has 20 trucks already and of the 800,000 [Thier number because I don't really know] built in those 5 years this could get expensive for some good will.

I note also that a co-worker of mine has a 1990 Toyots that also is broken in the same place.

This may be worth watching as I have seen Toyotas rust out badly every where else but I have seldom seen a truck frame rust in half.

This could be a major black eye for Toyota if this is wide spread in the rust belt states.

No recalls and this is only being handeled if someone comes in and complaines.

Damn!

My Uncle, who lives in Mass., has one of those trucks. Please let me know what happens with it so I can tell him about it.

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Damn!

My Uncle, who lives in Mass., has one of those trucks. Please let me know what happens with it so I can tell him about it.

Tell him to call a dealer and complain if he has rust through. See if they react like Ganley.

The Paper is on the web they should have the story there.

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>>"The trucks are worth about $3,000- $5,000K and Toyota is paying over Blue Book... giving $11,000-$12,000 for these trucks."<<

Textbook definition of hush money.

My '94 Ford has 146K on it and was once (inadvertantly) driven thru ocean-flooded streets. There's a bunch of surface rust now where there wasn't (this occurred in '06), but the frame is still 100% up to spec as far as real rust/rot goes.

I thought when toyota trucks were going to "change everything" the implication was 'for the better'.

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>>"The trucks are worth about $3,000- $5,000K and Toyota is paying over Blue Book... giving $11,000-$12,000 for these trucks."<<

Textbook definition of hush money.

My '94 Ford has 146K on it and was once (inadvertantly) driven thru ocean-flooded streets. There's a bunch of surface rust now where there wasn't (this occurred in '06), but the frame is still 100% up to spec as far as real rust/rot goes.

I thought when toyota trucks were going to "change everything" the implication was 'for the better'.

I understand the hush money idea. but with as wide wpread as this could be and havin a front page story on this documentng it. This could be nery expensive for Toyota.

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That's a very clever way of hiding the problem, though. The media may not have caught on at all, and Toyota gets to keep the customer since even if they hated their truck, nobody at Ford or GM would give them that kind of money on a trade.

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They use too much road salt in Ohio and other states in the Midwest and the NE, I'm sure that contributes to the problem. (I lived in the Akron and Cleveland area for 6 years, and saw what it did to cars...my Bronco started rusting when I lived there when it was less than 5 years old)>

Edited by moltar
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In today's Akron Beacon Journel they reported a local Toyota Dealer [Ganley Toyota] had discovered 1995-2000 Tacoma pick up trucks with frames rusted through just in front of the rear spring mount. They included pictures and all.

They say Ganley found the first one last fall and now have 20 broken frame trucks on the lot. Toyota has sent in engineers and have been looking into this.

Here is the odd thing... The trucks are worth about $3,000- $5,000K and Toyota is paying over Blue Book for them. Some of these trucks have 200,000 miles and they are giving $11,000-$12,000 for these trucks.

I know companies will do some good will but if one dealer has 20 trucks already and of the 800,000 [Thier number because I don't really know] built in those 5 years this could get expensive for some good will.

I note also that a co-worker of mine has a 1990 Toyots that also is broken in the same place.

This may be worth watching as I have seen Toyotas rust out badly every where else but I have seldom seen a truck frame rust in half.

This could be a major black eye for Toyota if this is wide spread in the rust belt states.

No recalls and this is only being handeled if someone comes in and complaines.

I lived near Cleveland for eight years and know a number of people in the newspaper media in Akron, Stow and Cleveland itself. The Beacon is known in the profession for some sensationalist reportage. My wife used to work for Ravenna-based RPC and certainly has some interesting stories to tell about the Akron paper.

It's quite possible that Toyota trucks have this kind of design flaw, and it's a bad one at that. However, it's good that Toyota are taking the issue so seriously. There are have been notable design flaws from other manufacturers over the years (Fiat and Audi both spring to mind) which weren't taken that seriously at all.

As someone else has pointed out, the amount of salt used in Ohio during the winter is phenomenal, and the state of the roads are some of the worst I have ever seen in the thirty-odd countries I've travelled to. This would be a massive catalyst in capitalising on a design weakness.

Edited by aatbloke
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I really wish the media would report this kind of major flaw, if only so that the masses would be enlightened to the fact that Toyota is not perfect, they make (sometimes serious) mistakes, just like every other company.

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All of the states in the north east, plus Ontario and Quebec use an insane amount of salt. Some of the salter trucks they use are not very well maintained and I've seen clumps of white salt left in places where the truck has stopped.

I am not aware of any rust problems on any vehicles since the late '80s. I have not heard of Toyota having a rust problem in the past 15 or so years. If this news is true, it is interesting, indeed. Having said that, if I was going to buy a vehicle in Ontario and planned to keep it more than 5 or 6 years, I would definitely have it rust-proofed, under coated or something. When you are driving along the expressway at 50 mph and you can hear the salt/sand blasting the undercarriage of your unprotected vehicle, it is not a pleasant feeling.

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All of the states in the north east, plus Ontario and Quebec use an insane amount of salt. Some of the salter trucks they use are not very well maintained and I've seen clumps of white salt left in places where the truck has stopped.

I am not aware of any rust problems on any vehicles since the late '80s. I have not heard of Toyota having a rust problem in the past 15 or so years. If this news is true, it is interesting, indeed. Having said that, if I was going to buy a vehicle in Ontario and planned to keep it more than 5 or 6 years, I would definitely have it rust-proofed, under coated or something. When you are driving along the expressway at 50 mph and you can hear the salt/sand blasting the undercarriage of your unprotected vehicle, it is not a pleasant feeling.

I remember back in the 70s where in the UK, you had to undercoat every car you bought otherwise you were likely to eventually fall through the floor. I remember my father undercoating both a Vauxhall Viva and a Hillman Avenger, and I did the same with an Austin Metro. I was laughing with a friend in Ohio when they said they used to have to do the same with their cars. It's amazing how far cars have come along since then, which is why this sort of news is so surprising.

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Floors and body panels rotting out are one thing, but a frame (especially on a pickup) is another thing entirely.

I read about this on another board and it seems that the cab actually detached from the frame on one of these trucks as it was rounding a turn.

Scary.

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Taken recently at an auction...frame cracked on site.

cid__0308081101.jpg

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Cracked frames aren't the sole problem of Toyota. While a design flaw such as that described earlier is poor, the amount of winter salt used in Ohio and north-east States will soon develop a fault into a very serious problem. In the picture taken, there's no note of the history of the particular vehicle, and no note of how well - or how abused - the vehicle as been treated.

Edited by aatbloke
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I would like to take a moment to point out what the strength of a real frame is....

wrecked-ram.jpg

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Cracked frames aren't the sole problem of Toyota. While a design flaw such as that described earlier is poor, the amount of winter salt used in Ohio and north-east States will soon develop a fault into a very serious problem. In the picture taken, there's no note of the history of the particular vehicle, and no note of how well - or how abused - the vehicle as been treated.

As someone who has spent the majority of his life in the snow belt, no, this isn't an issue of road salt. If that were the case, a lot more vehicles would look like that.

The vehicle in the picture is late-model, meaning it has seen no more than 10 winters. Judging by the overall appearance of it, probably much fewer than that.

If the frames crack like that, it is the sole problem of Toyota as I have never seen anything like that before.

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Agree with Croc; a vehicle's frame is the strongest (after the engine block) component of a vehicle- no manner of abuse short of purposely grinding on a well-engineered frame is going to cause it rot thru/break in half within a reasonable span of years, and by that for a BOF vehicle, I am talking about 30 years minimum. And salt is not the cultprit either, or there would be widespread examples of this on a wide range of BOF vehicles in these regions. Jersey uses a lot of salt, too, and I have never seen/heard of that sort structural 'manfunction' before. The logical explaination is Toyota either skimped on the coating by design or manufacture, or the metallurgy is bad- other reasons may play a minor contriuting role, but there is a major flaw there to start with.

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This isn't going to stop anyone from buyin their junk it never does. The morons that are so loyal to Toyota seem like the just don't care and they buy the crap anyway. I also love how this isn't plastered all over the news but if it were a Ford, Dodge, or Chevy it would be everywhere. Im done trying to convince people to buy American vehicles because they don't want to listen. I guess theyll just learn when our economy is in the &#036;h&#33;ter and we have no jobs and the Japs rule the country!

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As someone who has spent the majority of his life in the snow belt, no, this isn't an issue of road salt. If that were the case, a lot more vehicles would look like that.

The vehicle in the picture is late-model, meaning it has seen no more than 10 winters. Judging by the overall appearance of it, probably much fewer than that.

If the frames crack like that, it is the sole problem of Toyota as I have never seen anything like that before.

Once again I am misquoted. I didn't say it was merely an issue of road salt. What I did say was that large quantities of road salt will very quickly exascerbate a design flaw, whether be engineering or finishing. It's a design fault which is clearly the case here, but nobody can judge the way a particular vehicle has been treated either just from looking at a single photograph. As I said in my original thread, kudos to Toyota for taking the matter seriously; I've seen other manufacturers (such as Audi and Fiat) turn a blind eye in these cases.

Edited by aatbloke
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The logical explaination is Toyota either skimped on the coating by design or manufacture, or the metallurgy is bad- other reasons may play a minor contriuting role, but there is a major flaw there to start with.

This was exactly my point. But this could happen to any car manufacturer - they are businesses after all, and all weigh up economics with every other aspect of developing a motor vehicle.

Edited by aatbloke
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Once again I am misquoted. I didn't say it was merely an issue of road salt. What I did say was that large quantities of road salt will very quickly exascerbate a design flaw, whether be engineering or finishing. It's a design fault which is clearly the case here, but nobody can judge the way a particular vehicle has been treated either just from looking at a single photograph.

Granted, but minor contributing factors such as road salt and the 'treatment' of the truck (& by extension it's frame) are distantly secondary to the main issue here. There are a thousand possible atmospheric factors that all road vehicles potentially and/or actually face in use......... but the VAST majority of them do not break in half doing so. Mentioning road salt comes off as defensive.

This was exactly my point. But this could happen to any car manufacturer - they are businesses after all, and all weigh up economics with every other aspect of developing a motor vehicle.

I only wish when it happens to General Motors, the media/public at large treated the issue the same way you are, above.

While a design flaw such as that described earlier is poor...

'Inexcusable' would be a far more appropriate assessment.

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Granted, but minor contributing factors such as road salt and the 'treatment' of the truck (& by extension it's frame) are distantly secondary to the main issue here. There are a thousand possible atmospheric factors that all road vehicles potentially and/or actually face in use......... but the VAST majority of them do not break in half doing so. Mentioning road salt comes off as defensive.

I only wish when it happens to General Motors, the media/public at large treated the issue the same way you are, above.

'Inexcusable' would be a far more appropriate assessment.

Here's what I said: a significant flaw in design or manufacture in the use of steel in a vehicle will be seized upon and exascerbated by excessive amounts of road salt. I didn't say road salt is the root cause, or is the overriding factor. However, as bad a flaw as it is, I give Toyota kudos for taking the issue seriously.

I am not a teenager. I don't buy into petulant and childish arguments over brands, or companies for that matter, originating from different countries. I have no cult-like allegiance to any one brand and I cast the same approach to everything on the market; I've worked in and around the motor industry for over 25 years in a number of different countries, including the USA. Anyone stupid enough to pay too much attention to the media - over any subject - is going to be misinformed. They're out to sell stories ultimately. I give Toyota and GM equal credence. Both are successful motor manufacturers - but they're businesses first and foremost. Neither are omnipotent, and neither are better than anybody else.

Edited by aatbloke
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