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Intrepidation

Lutz: '09 Pontiac G8 GT gets optional Tremec 6-speed stick

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CarDomain recently sat for lunch with GM car czar Bob Lutz, and one of the topics that came up was the ever-vanishing manual transmission. Lutz explained that modern automatics are no longer the less efficient option by default, and with CAFE dictating so much nowadays, carmakers can actually lower their fleet average fuel economy more by going with automatics that can be programmed to deliver maximum efficiency (as far as the EPA is concerned, at least). He then went on to state that there will be manuals available in both the Camaro and the 2009 Pontiac G8 GT, which gets a 6-speed unit from Tremec. So if you waited on Poncho's new muscle sedan, your patience will be rewarded. Of course, your patience will also got you a price increase too, but at least those dopey digital auxiliary gauges will be gone, as well.

Source: Autoblog

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Cool. Get those G8s while you can!

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Bravo GM on listening to what the people and customers are saying. :thumbsup:

Now if you only would just listen a little more closely ... :AH-HA_wink:

And if I am reading this correctly, will there be more cars available with manual transmissions in light of new CAFE regulations? If so, well, I guess one small bit of good came out of all of this.

Edited by YellowJacket894
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Bravo GM on listening to what the people and customers are saying. :thumbsup:

Now if you only would just listen a little more closely ... :AH-HA_wink:

And if I am reading this correctly, will there be more cars available with manual transmissions in light of new CAFE regulations? If so, well, I guess one small bit of good came out of all of this.

Sorry dude, but it actually said that manufacturers are moving away from it because automaticsa are no longer less efficient, because of the way they can be programed.

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Sorry dude, but it actually said that manufacturers are moving away from it because automaticsa are no longer less efficient, because of the way they can be programed.

Great. :rolleyes:

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I know right? :nono:

But hey, we're getting a stick in the GT, so we can be happy for that.

Edited by Dodgefan
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This is a upgraded T5 that is called a T660. It will be used in most new performance applications form 2009 and forward.

GM did not delay this tranny in the G8 as they were waiting for the tranny to become available. Not the Challanger also did not get this till late as it is the same tranny.

All the bashing GM took for the delay should really have been directed at Tremec.

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Glad to see this.

I know this was planned long before recent troubles, but I see this as a sign of GM's commitment to Pontiac.

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I would rather have those "dopey gauges" instead of nothing, So I really hope they are replaced by some analog guages, or something.... not just a hole or compartment. I really dont see what was so bad about them, they may not have been very useful, but in my book, if its red, and it lights up, it cant be that bad..

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All the bashing GM took for the delay should really have been directed at Tremec.

Like that would ever happen...

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... double post ...

Edited by Lamar
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About freakin time!

Now where is the official name for the G8 "ST"?

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I'd suspect G8 D.O.A. if they want to represent what its going to do when it goes on sale.

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About freakin time!

Now where is the official name for the G8 "ST"?

I am sure it is in the hands of the GM law department and marketing trying to decide what one will piss the least people off and cost GM the least to hold tittle on.

If it was as easy as just picking a name.

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Get used to it guys.

Pretty soon we'll all be driving battery powered, slush box propelled p*ssy mobiles.

At least people like Satty can get their rox off thinking that they're saving a planet that's already doomed to burn in hell anyway. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

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This is good news.

Now Lutz needs to tell us that GM has figured out a way to give Pontiac an all RWD future product portfolio. All you need is a next generation Solstice roadster/coupe, a modified Kappa subcompact 5-door, an Alpha based sedan/coupe, a SWB SigZeta sedan/coupe, and a LWB SigZeta sedan. Use turbocharged Ecotec engines of various displacements as base engines (except in the LWB SigZeta) to provide reasonable performance and decent fuel economy (along with hybrid and diesel options). Other engines (V6 and V8 in regular or turbocharged formats) could be used as performance trim upgrades. Pontiac has so much potential to be something unique and special in the U.S. market if GM worked diligently to make it happen. They have the talent and resources to give this division cars that are fun to drive and offer reasonable performance as well as decent fuel economy.

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I really dont see what was so bad about them, they may not have been very useful, but in my book, if its red, and it lights up, it cant be that bad..

The attention deficit disorder of North American Car Buyers couldn't have been illustrated better.

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Well, we knew the GXP was going to get the manual, but the GT is, too? This is good news. I'd really like to see a manual with the V6 and the 2.0L turbo Ecotec, as well. I'm glad somebody remembers that driving can be exciting in a properly equipped car.
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At least people like Satty can get their rox off thinking that they're saving a planet that's already doomed to burn in hell anyway. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

50% of the cars in my driveway have manual transmissions. 90% of my driving is in a car with 3-pedals. Just sayin.

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This is good news.

Now Lutz needs to tell us that GM has figured out a way to give Pontiac an all RWD future product portfolio. All you need is a next generation Solstice roadster/coupe, a modified Kappa subcompact 5-door, an Alpha based sedan/coupe, a SWB SigZeta sedan/coupe, and a LWB SigZeta sedan. Use turbocharged Ecotec engines of various displacements as base engines (except in the LWB SigZeta) to provide reasonable performance and decent fuel economy (along with hybrid and diesel options). Other engines (V6 and V8 in regular or turbocharged formats) could be used as performance trim upgrades. Pontiac has so much potential to be something unique and special in the U.S. market if GM worked diligently to make it happen. They have the talent and resources to give this division cars that are fun to drive and offer reasonable performance as well as decent fuel economy.

I agree with a lot of what you have here, but a couple things to note:

1. They don't need two Zetas in this market and with GM's brand structure, the other Zeta could land somewhere else.

2. I know we all want Pontiac to be entirely RWD, but the modified Kappa would likely be expensive to execute and it would be tough to make the price point necessary for that type of vehicle. But, why can't you have a FWD compact hatch? VW's GTi is FWD and damn fun to drive. I've been saying Pontiac would be well served by a car like that for a while.

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Pretty soon we'll all be driving battery powered, slush box propelled p*ssy mobiles.

This is the type of thinking that belies a lot of opportunity in the market. Sure, electric will never have that classic sound or feel of a muscle car, but that doesn't mean it can't be performance based. I know it's expensive, but the Tesla roadster puts up some pretty good numbers. I personally think there is a huge potential to do a hybrid or series-hybrid focused on performance and it's a great way to give Pontiac huge dose of relevance it critically needs.

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Well, we knew the GXP was going to get the manual, but the GT is, too? This is good news. I'd really like to see a manual with the V6 and the 2.0L turbo Ecotec, as well. I'm glad somebody remembers that driving can be exciting in a properly equipped car.

exactly. for me what i would actually PREFER in my g8 would be a twin turbo v6 3.6 DI high feature (dare i say ECOTEC). Or even the 300hp DI HF v6 with a 6 speed manual. I'd like AWD also, but you can't always get what you want mick said.

why not a ecotec 2.4 turbo, w/ 300hp or so?

for the record, i want alpha pontiacs too and i think buick needs the chinese park avenue NOW. I also feel a caprice from chevy would work too. GM needs to pull their head out of their ass.

Edited by regfootball
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I agree with a lot of what you have here, but a couple things to note:

1. They don't need two Zetas in this market and with GM's brand structure, the other Zeta could land somewhere else.

2. I know we all want Pontiac to be entirely RWD, but the modified Kappa would likely be expensive to execute and it would be tough to make the price point necessary for that type of vehicle. But, why can't you have a FWD compact hatch? VW's GTi is FWD and damn fun to drive. I've been saying Pontiac would be well served by a car like that for a while.

The 2 SigZeta cars would have different exterior dimensions than the current Holden based Zeta cars. The next generation G8 is the car that I intended to be built on the LWB SigZeta; it would retain its role as Pontiac's flagship sedan. The next generation G8 would be about the same size it is today (about 197 inches) on a longer wheelbase (118 inches). I envisioned the SWB SigZeta as a RWD midsize replacement for the G6; the car would be about 189/190 inches long on a 114 inch wheelbase. The SWB SigZeta based G6 would fill the gap between the next generation G8 and the Alpha sedan, which will be a compact product (about 181/182 inches long on a 108 inch wheelbase) if I understand all the info that I have read about Alpha so far. This would give Pontiac a sedan to cover the compact (Alpha), midsize (SWB SigZeta G6), and large (LWB SigZeta G8) sedan segments. I think the Pontiac lineup could still be aligned with the Holden lineup. From what I understand, the current Commodore/Calais and Statesman/Caprice are not selling as well as before due to rising gas prices in Australia. Maybe lighter, downsized models with more fuel efficient engine choices would improve the cars' sales performance Down Under in addition to providing a nice 3-tier sedan lineup for Pontiac in the States (they could be sold as Chevys in the Middle East). I would build the Pontiac models in the U.S. (the Holden and Middle East Chevy models could still be built in Australia) along with their Cadillac platform mates.

I viewed the modified Kappa based subcompact 5-door as more of a small specialty car than a mainstream small car (sort of a more practical 2+2 companion to the Solstice roadster/coupe). Idealistically, I would love to see it on a modified Kappa or shortened Alpha platform (about 172/173 inches long on a 104 inch wheelbase). I do understand your argument about the expenses of developing such a car on Kappa or Alpha. If GM can develop the car to sell at a reasonable premium, then I would like to see them do it. If they can't, I would rather see them drop the project. Chevy and Saturn/Opel can handle the FWD subcompact segment with the Aveo and Corsa, respectively. I agree with you that a fun FWD product could be developed, but I'm afraid that GM would take the easy way out and simply apply a twin nostriled snout to an Aveo or Corsa (and knowing GM's tendency to rebadge Chevys for Pontiac, it would turn out to be an Aveo). I've seen the proposed Aveo based G3 and it makes me want to hurl. If GM wanted to give Pontiac a FWD subcompact, I would like to see them do it right by giving the car its own unique exterior/interior design as well as more performance oriented features, powertrains, and suspension tuning. I just don't have enough faith in GM's ability to resist giving Pontiac another badge engineered Chevy clone at this point.

With GM's current financial state, I realize all of this is just a pipe dream. It would be great if it could somehow become a reality.

Edited by cire
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exactly. for me what i would actually PREFER in my g8 would be a twin turbo v6 3.6 DI high feature (dare i say ECOTEC). Or even the 300hp DI HF v6 with a 6 speed manual. I'd like AWD also, but you can't always get what you want mick said.

why not a ecotec 2.4 turbo, w/ 300hp or so?

for the record, i want alpha pontiacs too and i think buick needs the chinese park avenue NOW. I also feel a caprice from chevy would work too. GM needs to pull their head out of their ass.

+1

The G8 has gotten universally good reviews from the enthusiast press, but unfortunately the enthusiast market is still only a fraction of overall car sales.

Mainstream car buyers, who are facing $90 fill ups, care about things like fuel economy, and the current base engine's 17/25 mpg isn't cutting it. I think we're all in favor of broadening Pontiac's appeal if that keeps performance cars alive.

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+1

The G8 has gotten universally good reviews from the enthusiast press, but unfortunately the enthusiast market is still only a fraction of overall car sales.

Mainstream car buyers, who are facing $90 fill ups, care about things like fuel economy, and the current base engine's 17/25 mpg isn't cutting it. I think we're all in favor of broadening Pontiac's appeal if that keeps performance cars alive.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Not everyone NEEDS a V-8. A car with balance of performance, fuel economy, luxury, and practicality at the size of G8 without losing the fun factor at a lesser horsepower, would be a good buy.

If the car can shed about 300 lb, we can get decent numbers.

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