Jump to content

GM brings back employee pricing to sell remaining 2008 models


Recommended Posts

It is no secret that the automotive industry is hurting for sales to close out 2008. Over the past few months incentives have been thrown out left and right to draw in more buyers. The deals have not done enough to bring folks into the showroom, though. With all the media talk of bleeding Detroit, consumers know that the domestic manufacturers have been holding out on their best offers. Perhaps the memory of 2005's employee pricing incentives has kept many waiting on the fence. With 2009 models heading to dealerships as we speak, General Motors is hoping to end the stalemate. It will be testing the waters of employee pricing yet again beginning Wednesday, August 20th and running through September 2nd.

The employee discount program will apply across all 8 GM brands. Buick, Pontiac and GMC dealers will mark down 91 percent of their inventory on all 2008 models, along with the 2009 Pontiac Vibe and G5, Chevy Cobalt and HHR and, surprisingly, the Cadillac CTS. Chevrolet dealers can unload 90 percent of their 2008 inventory with all 2008 models eligible for the employee price. Cadillac, Saturn, SAAB, Hummer will each have their own stipulations as well, but it is certain that the discount will be widespread. The price reduction varies from vehicle to vehicle, but is typically on order of a few thousand dollars. Additional incentives will also still be offered on some slower selling items, such as, you guessed it, trucks and SUVs. So the question is, will employee pricing get you off the fence and into a dealership?

Souce: Autoblog

Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate to say this, but I hope they offer this deal next year when my AURA lease expires. We were lucky to take advantage of it last time (August, 2005), as my wife's Rendezvous was 5 months away from lease-end and GM gave us a pull-ahead offer with the Employee Pricing deal. It gave me a fully loaded Envoy SLT 4WD for a sweet deal. Of course with leasing going away, I'm facing the fact I will have to purchase my next ride and if the incentives are good enough, maybe it will help me to get "more vehicle" for my money (of course a year from now can be a whole different picture).

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is so dumb to have on the '09 models. Why would anyone buy an '08 CTS, G5, Cobalt, or HHR now, if the '09 is going to have more or less the same deal? I wish they would put it on the '09 G8, then my dad might buy one.

And to have it on the CTS, Cobalt, and HHR is dumb in the first place. The CTS is selling well without any incentives, and the Cobalt and HHR are out of stock everywhere, it is clear they don't need incentives... gas is $3.75/gal, why discount the most fuel-efficient cars? Just dumb...

Link to post
Share on other sites
This is so dumb to have on the '09 models. Why would anyone buy an '08 CTS, G5, Cobalt, or HHR now, if the '09 is going to have more or less the same deal? I wish they would put it on the '09 G8, then my dad might buy one.

And to have it on the CTS, Cobalt, and HHR is dumb in the first place. The CTS is selling well without any incentives, and the Cobalt and HHR are out of stock everywhere, it is clear they don't need incentives... gas is $3.75/gal, why discount the most fuel-efficient cars? Just dumb...

The only 09 it's on is the Pontiac Vibe, at least that's my understanding.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This is so dumb to have on the '09 models. Why would anyone buy an '08 CTS, G5, Cobalt, or HHR now, if the '09 is going to have more or less the same deal? I wish they would put it on the '09 G8, then my dad might buy one.

And to have it on the CTS, Cobalt, and HHR is dumb in the first place. The CTS is selling well without any incentives, and the Cobalt and HHR are out of stock everywhere, it is clear they don't need incentives... gas is $3.75/gal, why discount the most fuel-efficient cars? Just dumb...

well gm said there would be a pretty considerable price hike for 2009, so it wouldnt really matter.. and employee discount doesnt hurt GM's pocket, it hurts dealers pocket books... but in actuality the dealers like the promo because it brings a huge flux of customers, and it will fill showrooms and move used vehicles...

employee discount removes all profit from the dealership and gives it to the customer, the philosophy is, if GM isnt making money, why should its dealers, because someday, GM cannot last through the losses...

the employee discount this time around is more valueable because it will bring a large portion of customers that havent looked for a car for 3 years, and will notice a difference in GM's products... and besides, it is a good time frame since the last employee discount...

I honnestly think this is good news, and a good deal for GM... although it hurts resale, i doubt resale will be affected, we are about to experiance massive inflation, and the price of used vehicles is about to climb rather then fall... so it really doesnt matter.

I'm certain GM has only applied GME discount on vehicles with a certain surplus, days in inventory... this will help 3rd quarter reduction in inventory, as well as bolster consumer confidence, and increase factory production aka revenue.

CTS is probably included to shuffle consumers to cadillacs door step... likely they have already sold out and are just delivering fresh faces to the dealership to flip onto another vehicle... pretty standard in the industry...

Link to post
Share on other sites
The CTS is selling well without any incentives

If this were true then I don't think it would be offered as part of the program. Obviously sales must have slowed quite a bit.

Even with the discount, the new CTS (in the form I'd want) is still too pricey for me unfortunately :(

Link to post
Share on other sites
well gm said there would be a pretty considerable price hike for 2009, so it wouldnt really matter.. and employee discount doesnt hurt GM's pocket, it hurts dealers pocket books... but in actuality the dealers like the promo because it brings a huge flux of customers, and it will fill showrooms and move used vehicles...

employee discount removes all profit from the dealership and gives it to the customer, the philosophy is, if GM isnt making money, why should its dealers, because someday, GM cannot last through the losses...

the employee discount this time around is more valueable because it will bring a large portion of customers that havent looked for a car for 3 years, and will notice a difference in GM's products... and besides, it is a good time frame since the last employee discount...

I honnestly think this is good news, and a good deal for GM... although it hurts resale, i doubt resale will be affected, we are about to experiance massive inflation, and the price of used vehicles is about to climb rather then fall... so it really doesnt matter.

I'm certain GM has only applied GME discount on vehicles with a certain surplus, days in inventory... this will help 3rd quarter reduction in inventory, as well as bolster consumer confidence, and increase factory production aka revenue.

CTS is probably included to shuffle consumers to cadillacs door step... likely they have already sold out and are just delivering fresh faces to the dealership to flip onto another vehicle... pretty standard in the industry...

Employee Pricing is a marketing campaign wrapped around a catchy slogan: nothing more, nothing less. Chrysler has been advertising 'family' and employee pricing around here for months. Judging by some of the nasty counter-ads Chrysler dealers are taking out in the papers against each other ("our dealership believes sales should be for everybody!" ran one ad in the Sun recently), I would say the entire program is flopping for them.

July/August '05 were two the best months I ever had in this business, both from a volume and total gross point of view. My former dealer had the best month they had had in years - and made a ton of money. Traffic spiked up considerably in the beginning, as people flocked to dealers, thinking they were going to save $5k on a Cobalt. When they realized there aren't those kinds of margins (the difference between MSRP and 'invoice price' is shockingly less than most people think), out the door many of them went.

50% off sales at Sears and Walgreens confuse people. To me, it is the great irony of our modern times that the mark-up on food, clothing and furniture - 3 important staples that we need to survive, is more than 100%; yet, on luxury items, like electronics and autos, the margins are less than 10%.

I know that sales in the U.S. are sluggish. Canada has fared a little better, but most dealers are carrying half the inventory they normally would for this time of year so there will be no fire sales this summer. Then again, for us, since the $C has been virtually at par for more than a year, our prices are down substantially from where they have traditionally been.

When I think that a Cavalier, automatic, air and cassette LEASED for $330 a month with $900 due on delivery back in '01 and now a Cobalt Team Canada edition (leather steering wheel, power sunroof, 155 hp ecotec, automatic, power group, auto headlights, OnStar, side airbags and ABS) SELLS for $330 a month with ZERO down - well, I say bring on the Canadian dollar!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
well gm said there would be a pretty considerable price hike for 2009, so it wouldnt really matter.. and employee discount doesnt hurt GM's pocket, it hurts dealers pocket books... but in actuality the dealers like the promo because it brings a huge flux of customers, and it will fill showrooms and move used vehicles...

employee discount removes all profit from the dealership and gives it to the customer, the philosophy is, if GM isnt making money, why should its dealers, because someday, GM cannot last through the losses...

the employee discount this time around is more valueable because it will bring a large portion of customers that havent looked for a car for 3 years, and will notice a difference in GM's products... and besides, it is a good time frame since the last employee discount...

I honnestly think this is good news, and a good deal for GM... although it hurts resale, i doubt resale will be affected, we are about to experiance massive inflation, and the price of used vehicles is about to climb rather then fall... so it really doesnt matter.

I'm certain GM has only applied GME discount on vehicles with a certain surplus, days in inventory... this will help 3rd quarter reduction in inventory, as well as bolster consumer confidence, and increase factory production aka revenue.

CTS is probably included to shuffle consumers to cadillacs door step... likely they have already sold out and are just delivering fresh faces to the dealership to flip onto another vehicle... pretty standard in the industry...

I, on the other hand, think this is a horrible promotion.

:angry:

GM is so boneheaded at times, it really pisses me off.

Why?

Let me tell you........

* Great....we have "GM Employee Pricing." That means that IF we take advantage of that, we HAVE TO adhere to that for EVERY new car we sell.....not just "aged" units. Guess what our dealership makes from doing a GMS deal? About $400. That's it. But GM says we get the "memo" amount.....(which is around $2,200 for a loaded CTS.) BUT what GM ALWAYS forgets is that after dealership "packs" (which are held aside to pay salespeople and cover other assorted costs, etc., etc) we are left with only around $400.

* Guess what else they did? ALL zero-percent financing WENT AWAY.

* Also, our customer cash on Escalade and DTS was reduced by around $1,000 each.

* AND you can guess what happened to lease rates? Our buy-rate on a GMAC CTS lease went up TWO percentage points from July to August.....and effective with this promotion, the buy-rate goes up ANOTHER 1.8 percentage points.....effectively taking Cadillac OUT of the leasing market (even with a low GMS price to work with....payments are now way too high.) This huge increase in rates was across the board as well....DTS, Escalade, you name it.

* All these people coming off lease and wanting another car back when GM last did employee pricing are finding out that, due to the $h!ty incentives we have now, they can't afford to get into another car (unless they want a payment $300-$400 more a month now.) Last time GM did employee pricing, they had much more aggressive incentives (and really not just incentives, it was the way more aggressive finance and lease rates) to combine with the employee pricing.

So I want SOMEONE....ANYONE tell me why this promotion (synchronized with the loss of 0%, customer cash reductions, and dramatic increases in finance and lease rates) even remotely positive?

ONE thing I will say positively.....it WILL drive alot of traffic.

AND, as an Internet Director, I will capitalize on that. But I bet what you'll see is a HUGE increase in pre-owned business at dealerships due to the increase in traffic and not nearly as much uptick in new car sales as what GM is hoping.

Link to post
Share on other sites

AND another thing.....while I'm blowing off steam.......

What ever happened to incentives that help build VALUE in the product?

I thought GM was supposed to get away from this "...let's drop-our-pants on the price because our cars will never sell unless they have a huge discount..." mentality....!

The 0% (or 1.9%, 2.9%....whatever....) financing was GREAT because what the customer saw was a HUGE savings in interest fees........allowing us to still build and sell the value in the product without having to resort to huge discounts to get the consumers into the cars.

Or what about more trunk money? You know.....dealer cash that allows the dealer to offer a larger discount on the car.....without it seeming like (in the customer's eyes anyway?) A large dealer cash incentive helps the dealer also build value in the car.....and is far less damaging than a "consumer rebate" because the customer doesn't see the dealer cash as such.....they just see it as a dealer-led discount on the car. Whereas a "rebate" is the company, GM, saying "we need to give you money to buy our car."

Anyways.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great if it helps sell cars who cares. These are the prices GM should just put on the cars to begin with. If a dealer makes more than $500 on me than they are making to much. Yeah somebody will tell me there in buisness to make money, and I am out to save myself my money. Plus I come back and pay for the overpriced service. This is good for dealers even if they bitch about the profit and for GM because the market right now is REALLY slow. Hell I can get a new DTS V8 stripped for 35K that is tempting.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Great if it helps sell cars who cares. These are the prices GM should just put on the cars to begin with. If a dealer makes more than $500 on me than they are making to much. Yeah somebody will tell me there in buisness to make money, and I am out to save myself my money. Plus I come back and pay for the overpriced service. This is good for dealers even if they bitch about the profit and for GM because the market right now is REALLY slow. Hell I can get a new DTS V8 stripped for 35K that is tempting.

$500....? Absurd....and spoken like someone that knows nothing about the dealer side of the car business. (Do you know what "overhead" is?)

GM could have taken another route.....which would have sparked traffic....AND allow the dealers to make money. As so many people have said, the dealers need to be just as successful as GM itself if GM is going to survive.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Trust me O.C. I know plenty about dealers, they make money on service and over-pricing parts. If I can't get a good deal on a car then forget them. If they make more than $500 on me they are making too much money. Sure some pig dealers want to and do make more, but when I buy a car I don't want to get screwed. Wonder why I ended up with a purple Torrent because it was a deal. When you sell a car you sell your service and take the car back there. Once again if a dealer needs to make more than that on a car then they can stick it and not "get another customer to screw on service" then that is there problem. Then again I am old school. One salesmen only made $50 bucks off me but they got a customer and I got "screwed on service" so they made it up trust me. Then again if you work for a dealer $500 for only two hours of a sales persons time seems like good money to me. Oh and I understand overhead, don't sell me the typical poor car dealer line I got that run-around when I got my Bonneville. You think dealers make alot off of me when I buy? Hell no but I am loyal and bring my cars back for service that is when they make there money back. If you can't make money on service then your obviously doing something else wrong. Ultimately your hurting yourself and losing my buisness I have had dealers treat me like that and I DON'T buy there. If you work at one that is like that I wouldn't do buisness with them. Sorry. I am a hard-ass. And an even tighter one.

Edited by gm4life
Link to post
Share on other sites
$500....? Absurd....and spoken like someone that knows nothing about the dealer side of the car business. (Do you know what "overhead" is?)

GM could have taken another route.....which would have sparked traffic....AND allow the dealers to make money. As so many people have said, the dealers need to be just as successful as GM itself if GM is going to survive.

do you honnestly think GM cares about the dealers? they want to reduce them, so why not take away their means for business, their profit...

i got in the dealership in august, after the inventories were all blown out of 05... we still had the truck and suv market cournered with more vehicles then anyone..

let me give you the run down,

when business is slow, i mean less then 100 cars per weekend... dealers will focus on per unit profit... making sure to make 'pounders' with every sale...

when the ecconomy is bad, consumers need the products, and the manufactures, need the consumers to afford the product.

you are bitching about this years GME being less incentive then previously... well thats because GM is still cutting back on incentives...

GM must do what it takes to survive. and selling in volume, has been GM's cheif advantage for the last 70+ years... ignoring that would be foolish, as market share shrinks...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like this because it kills resale values. It is good at clearing out inventory, especially on stuff like Impala, G6, Trailbalzers, but it is bad to do on CTS, Malibu, etc. They need better products that they can sell without deep discounts if they want to recover.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I fail to see how it is going to help sales....repos are getting close to a all time high.

More and more consumers can't afford to pay credit card payments...

GM has been cutting more and more " bad" credit customers out.....

So tell me again why I should rush out and buy a new car? :confused0071:

Link to post
Share on other sites

They simply have no choice....although inventories aren't bad, the current economic climate means most dealers have ordered significantly less 09's than GM had planned to produce.

You've got to clear the lots of 08's to force dealer's hands---most dealers I know have hunkered down, cut inventories by 25% or more and emphasized their used operations & service departments in an attempt to keep things afloat. Layoffs have begun at the dealer level, big time.

IIRC, a majority of Domestic showrooms and almost half of the Imports dealers lost money in 07. Can't imagine 08 being better. Dealers are still the gateway to product, so keeping them starving isn't a great long/short term plan for any manufacturer.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Trust me O.C. I know plenty about dealers, they make money on service and over-pricing parts. If I can't get a good deal on a car then forget them. If they make more than $500 on me they are making too much money. Sure some pig dealers want to and do make more, but when I buy a car I don't want to get screwed. Wonder why I ended up with a purple Torrent because it was a deal. When you sell a car you sell your service and take the car back there. Once again if a dealer needs to make more than that on a car then they can stick it and not "get another customer to screw on service" then that is there problem. Then again I am old school. One salesmen only made $50 bucks off me but they got a customer and I got "screwed on service" so they made it up trust me. Then again if you work for a dealer $500 for only two hours of a sales persons time seems like good money to me. Oh and I understand overhead, don't sell me the typical poor car dealer line I got that run-around when I got my Bonneville. You think dealers make alot off of me when I buy? Hell no but I am loyal and bring my cars back for service that is when they make there money back. If you can't make money on service then your obviously doing something else wrong. Ultimately your hurting yourself and losing my buisness I have had dealers treat me like that and I DON'T buy there. If you work at one that is like that I wouldn't do buisness with them. Sorry. I am a hard-ass. And an even tighter one.

But in the end you still expect 'loaner vehicles', free coffee and a nice lounge to sit in while your car is being fixed, right?

I'll bet your the same kind of person who bitches and whines that the sales staff don't know what they're talking about or anything about their product. Guess what, bub - that costs money, too. Would you work 60 hour weeks, every Saturday, and many holidays for $30k a year? Didn't think so.

You want professional service and professionals to work with, you gotta pay for it.

Most dealers do lose money in their new car show rooms. The reason why so many sales people don't know what they're talking about is because they've only been there 3 weeks. They are 'free' to the dealer and expendable. The senior guys won't deal with the a-holes, or they're by appointment only (although those days are somewhat diminished.)

The consumer seems to want it both ways. The same guy who bitches at Wal-Mart that his $20 blender busted instead of buying the $60 one at Sears.

Back on topic: although they haven't introduced employee pricing here (and I doubt they will because nobody has any 2008 products left anyway), it won't matter to me either way. It's the PERCEPTION of the deal that counts, and Employee Pricing gives the IMPRESSION that the customer is getting the best deal EVER.

Besides, most people wouldn't know a good deal if it bit them on the giggly parts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The consumer seems to want it both ways. The same guy who bitches at Wal-Mart that his $20 blender busted instead of buying the $60 one at Sears.

Well Sears was bought by K-mart a long time ago and I doubt that it is necessarily any better.

The employee pricing thing is going to be very common in these economic times, We are having some renovations done to our home and a neighbor is getting us "friends and family" pricing on some laminate flooring from a major brand name manufacturer.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Well Sears was bought by K-mart a long time ago and I doubt that it is necessarily any better.

The employee pricing thing is going to be very common in these economic times, We are having some renovations done to our home and a neighbor is getting us "friends and family" pricing on some laminate flooring from a major brand name manufacturer.

People still go to Sears and K mart? :confused0071:

Link to post
Share on other sites
But in the end you still expect 'loaner vehicles', free coffee and a nice lounge to sit in while your car is being fixed, right?

I'll bet your the same kind of person who bitches and whines that the sales staff don't know what they're talking about or anything about their product. Guess what, bub - that costs money, too. Would you work 60 hour weeks, every Saturday, and many holidays for $30k a year? Didn't think so.

You want professional service and professionals to work with, you gotta pay for it.

Most dealers do lose money in their new car show rooms. The reason why so many sales people don't know what they're talking about is because they've only been there 3 weeks. They are 'free' to the dealer and expendable. The senior guys won't deal with the a-holes, or they're by appointment only (although those days are somewhat diminished.)

The consumer seems to want it both ways. The same guy who bitches at Wal-Mart that his $20 blender busted instead of buying the $60 one at Sears.

Back on topic: although they haven't introduced employee pricing here (and I doubt they will because nobody has any 2008 products left anyway), it won't matter to me either way. It's the PERCEPTION of the deal that counts, and Employee Pricing gives the IMPRESSION that the customer is getting the best deal EVER.

Besides, most people wouldn't know a good deal if it bit them on the giggly parts.

No I am not someone who bitches about the lounge area, and don't need freebies. It is a two way street. If they have a chair to sit on and a knowledgeable sales staff (may not know as much as me) but still know the product I don't care. I understand you get what you pay for and trust me I get a good deal on a car and take it in the pants on the service.

Link to post
Share on other sites
No I am not someone who bitches about the lounge area, and don't need freebies. It is a two way street. If they have a chair to sit on and a knowledgeable sales staff (may not know as much as me) but still know the product I don't care. I understand you get what you pay for and trust me I get a good deal on a car and take it in the pants on the service.

So, it offends you to dole out an extra $1 on the sale, but they can rip you off to their hearts content on the service end?

That simply makes no sense.

If a dealer can't make a decent buck, you simply won't have that dealer around, eventually. $500 won't cover the finance charge on the floorplan cost of the average GM vehicle (based on age of inventory and dealer cost), never mind paying the employees or keeping the lights on.

I'll be sure to stop by your job and see if some fat can be trimmed over there by cutting your wages--how does 1/2 a paycheck sound?

Link to post
Share on other sites
No I am not someone who bitches about the lounge area, and don't need freebies. It is a two way street. If they have a chair to sit on and a knowledgeable sales staff (may not know as much as me) but still know the product I don't care. I understand you get what you pay for and trust me I get a good deal on a car and take it in the pants on the service.

if you were my client, i'd give you a 1983 Pony for free, and charge you $800/week for parts and service. and the best part is, all you'd talk about to your friends is how you got a great deal on a car!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
People still go to Sears and K mart? :confused0071:

Not around here: K-Mart was bought out by Wal-Mart a long time ago.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting back to the Employee Pricing...was strolling the lots here last night (no vultures) and noticed three new Impala's on the lot - they were '09 units. The Impala LT is a great deal for what they ask for it. Most important thing to note was the standard Bluetooth on the LT1 units and up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
So, it offends you to dole out an extra $1 on the sale, but they can rip you off to their hearts content on the service end?

That simply makes no sense.

If a dealer can't make a decent buck, you simply won't have that dealer around, eventually. $500 won't cover the finance charge on the floorplan cost of the average GM vehicle (based on age of inventory and dealer cost), never mind paying the employees or keeping the lights on.

I'll be sure to stop by your job and see if some fat can be trimmed over there by cutting your wages--how does 1/2 a paycheck sound?

I mean I always take in the pants on service. Because I can go to an indepentant garage and save a ton, I still opt to go to a GM dealer. I still don't understand why making $500 on a car is not enough and never will. Oh trust me there isn't an extra 500 to shave from my paycheck. That is why I get great deals. :neenerneener:

Link to post
Share on other sites
I mean I always take in the pants on service. Because I can go to an indepentant garage and save a ton, I still opt to go to a GM dealer. I still don't understand why making $500 on a car is not enough and never will. Oh trust me there isn't an extra 500 to shave from my paycheck. That is why I get great deals. :neenerneener:

I was just checking that you understood what you're saying...I guess you do.

$500 doesn't cover more than a few months of interest payments on floorplanned inventory. That's without paying a salesman, manager & the receptionist. Electric, heat & rent aren't peanuts either, my friend.

That's why lots o' dealers are "retiring"

Link to post
Share on other sites
I was just checking that you understood what you're saying...I guess you do.

$500 doesn't cover more than a few months of interest payments on floorplanned inventory. That's without paying a salesman, manager & the receptionist. Electric, heat & rent aren't peanuts either, my friend.

That's why lots o' dealers are "retiring"

Pretty soon you will be buying a car online and picking it up on a lot...no joke. :unsure:

Almost all the auto companies are working on that in some shape or form...

And unlike most online retailers..I don't think the comsumer will get a choice in this change either...

Though I'm sure there will be some "service centers" for test driving and service.....

Link to post
Share on other sites
Pretty soon you will be buying a car online and picking it up on a lot...no joke. :unsure:

Almost all the auto companies are working on that in some shape or form...

And unlike most online retailers..I don't think the comsumer will get a choice in this change either...

Though I'm sure there will be some "service centers" for test driving and service.....

I don't understand your irrational hatred of dealers. It's one thing to buy a sweater or hockey cards online, quite another to spend 4 years salary. Would you buy your house online, without even seeing it?

Maybe mommy didn't breast feed you, but I suspect that as soon as you walk on the lot, salesman scatter. Your attitude betrays you. If you treat the sales staff like $h!, they will just dish it right back.

It's a truism in this business that price whores are not worth the time or money. I wish you luck at buying your next car online. We've heard this story for 10 years. Someone still has to show you the car (because you may think you know everything, I'd wager you do NOT), explain the differences you may not be aware of and then, of course, you'll want to drive it.

If you don't think that is worth paying for, then I guess you're the kind of guy who prefers to stay at home because internet porn is so much better than actually having to relate with real human beings.

Edited by CARBIZ
Link to post
Share on other sites

Online sales are growing at a fast pace for vehicle purchases.

Last month was my first full month here at Caddy and I sold 16.5 cars in one month......all from online business (I don't take floor ups or phone pops....unless they are internet-driven.) I was top salesperson here at the store too. Not bragging.....just trying to make a point about the potential for online business (and this was in a down market right now too.)

I've got 11 out this month and working a bunch that I hope to close by Saturday.

People do SO much research online now, that a vast majority of the work is done over the computer and phone. SURE they still have to end up coming here to seal the deal and take delivery, but by the time they get here, they are somewhat committed, have started to build a relationship with me, and feel like the time spent purchasing the car was much less than if they just walked in off the street (even if it's really not much less time.)

Back again to Employee Pricing......those of you in GM stores, have you seen a great increase in new-car business as a result? We haven't at all.....in fact our new-car business is off dramatically this month......used is still strong though. (I've got 8 used but only 3 new out.)

A prime example I'm dealing with is a customer coming out of an '05 CTS lease.....trying to get her into a comparable '08.....with the lease rates now.....and EVEN WITH GMS pricing.....her payment doubles.....DOUBLES. I have no where to go with her. She'll have to either move into a pre-owned CTS on a purchase, or go lease something much less expensive to replace it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't understand your irrational hatred of dealers. It's one thing to buy a sweater or hockey cards online, quite another to spend 4 years salary. Would you buy your house online, without even seeing it?

'4 years salary'??? Someone's paying waaay too much for a car... i.e. someone making $25k/year buying an $100k car? I don't think so!

I couldn't imagine buying a car that was much more than 1/3 of my yearly salary...

Edited by moltar
Link to post
Share on other sites
'4 years salary'??? Someone's paying waaay too much for a car... i.e. someone making $25k/year buying an $100k car? I don't think so!

I couldn't imagine buying a car that was much more than 1/3 of my yearly salary...

Yeah I'm thinking he meant 4 months... Thats about my cap as well, every 5-6 years.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I was just checking that you understood what you're saying...I guess you do.

$500 doesn't cover more than a few months of interest payments on floorplanned inventory. That's without paying a salesman, manager & the receptionist. Electric, heat & rent aren't peanuts either, my friend.

That's why lots o' dealers are "retiring"

No Enzl thank you for being polite. I am just a deal hunter, wonder my Impala has only two options tape deck and cruise? Because I could get the sucker for a song!

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't understand your irrational hatred of dealers. It's one thing to buy a sweater or hockey cards online, quite another to spend 4 years salary. Would you buy your house online, without even seeing it?

Maybe mommy didn't breast feed you, but I suspect that as soon as you walk on the lot, salesman scatter. Your attitude betrays you. If you treat the sales staff like $h!, they will just dish it right back.

It's a truism in this business that price whores are not worth the time or money. I wish you luck at buying your next car online. We've heard this story for 10 years. Someone still has to show you the car (because you may think you know everything, I'd wager you do NOT), explain the differences you may not be aware of and then, of course, you'll want to drive it.

If you don't think that is worth paying for, then I guess you're the kind of guy who prefers to stay at home because internet porn is so much better than actually having to relate with real human beings.

What???? What makes you think I hate Dealers?

That's a low blow Carbiz..... :(

I actually like going to the dealership...not only to buy a car, but sometimes getting it servced there. I like walking around the lots looking for the new cars. I like to test a few cars ( or even trims levels) to see what I will like. I like talking to a real person, which is important when you are making a purchase like this.

The problem is that many people do not think like me...at least, not anymore.

Many people (including a friend of mine) did a little research, and Bam!-bought their car online. My buddy even had all his finacing done online.

To some people. it is no different than buying a pair of jeans online. Sad, but very true.

The reason I say that is because it is out there, and sooner or later-it is going to happen.

And not only do I know quite a bit about it, but I've already worked on one of these projects.

Now if the comsumer base as a whole continues to demand many choices (and not just be told what they need), it is going to make it harder for companies to do it...

Times are changing my friend. I'm hoping to be able to see the best of both worlds...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually buying a car I figure what they are selling for (real world fair market value) make things fair and make an up front offer.

I find the words "I think this is fair, I'm ready to buy right now, my beacon score is 820, and I can be done in 15 minutes if you can write that fast"usually closes a sale pretty quickly.

I don't like to screw around once I've decided on the car I'm going to buy.

But I have found every car I've bought in the last 10 years Via the internet.

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites
'4 years salary'??? Someone's paying waaay too much for a car... i.e. someone making $25k/year buying an $100k car? I don't think so!

I couldn't imagine buying a car that was much more than 1/3 of my yearly salary...

My bad. I was thinking the general rule of not spending more than a person's annual salary, since most people pay them off over 4 years.... :wacko:

Link to post
Share on other sites
My bad. I was thinking the general rule of not spending more than a person's annual salary, since most people pay them off over 4 years.... :wacko:

How do you figure out what a person can really afford? Our household annual Salary right now is at about $70,000 or $75,000, and I don't really feel comfortable spending more than about 15k for a car, maybe 20k in a few years if I save up some good down payment or have extra tucked away in case of a rainy day.

...and I have very minimal (in the high hundreds) credit card debt...and no other real debt other than a mortgage that is less by a fair chunk than what I qualify for.

I was told that I could buy anything that took the payment to about $650 or $700 easily, but that is wayyy more than I am confortable with.

So how should someone really decide how much of a payment they can take on?

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

We do internet quotes all the time. They are a huge waste of time. 90% never even have the courtesy of getting back to us. I especially love the ones from 4-500 miles away: clearly they are just keeping their local dealer honest.

I think it can be argued that this type of shopping is not going away, but the dealer body is going to have to come to terms with it. These deals tend to be very low 'gross' deals. I've seen my commissions drop in half this past year. Since the dealers are often protected by the manufacturer (there are all kinds of kickbacks that the dealer gets that we aren't supposed to know about), it is really only the sales staff that are getting screwed, since we are paid on 'gross' only.

The Corvette deals are the worst. It takes a very long time to properly 'deliver' a Corvette. Initiating OnStar, showing them how to use the Nav system, going over the owners manual, making sure the car is flawless, checking up on the PDI guys, chasing the insurance companies, the paperwork is from hell - and all that for $200? I'd rather sell an Aveo, thanks. These Corvette guys get all puffed up like they are buying the Hope Diamond, but the reality to the sales staff is - who cares? When I would make a $3,500 commission on a $75k car, damned right I'd do cartwheels and fetch coffee, but for $200? Get your own damned coffee! It is harder and harder to put that smile on and eat the $h! these Corvette guys spew.

The amount of training that we have to do, compared to 10 years ago, is incredible. The paperwork and processes for delivering a vehicle are unbelievable. It usually takes 2 hours to sell a car, then another 2 to properly deliver it - and that assumes we have it in stock! The hours we put in suck. When people were making $80k a year, we would put up with a lot of crap, but those days are gone. If $200 is going to be an 'average' commission, the dealers are going to have to figure out a different pay plan very soon, or the well-trained staff will just go elsewhere. Then your dealer experience is going to be like a trip to Future Shop where you'll get a bunch of pimply-faced kids who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and whose eyes glaze over the moment you tell them you are 'just looking.'

The new reality in Canada is dealers selling 50-60 new cars a month and 6-8 salespeople fighting over those scarce customers. Customer loyalty is at an all-time low. Guys I know who were selling 20 cars a month 5 years ago, are now selling 8 or 9.

And don't think it's just GM. One of my best customers (he has bought 4 vehicles from me) got 'outsourced' from his well paying insurance job, so took a package and went to work as a business manager at a Mazda dealer in a highly Asian area of the city. He quit after 3 months. He hated the atmosphere, hated the amount of sleeze - and they weren't selling any cars there! I guess he was surprised that he had to actually work for half the money he was used to making!

Link to post
Share on other sites
How do you figure out what a person can really afford? Our household annual Salary right now is at about $70,000 or $75,000, and I don't really feel comfortable spending more than about 15k for a car, maybe 20k in a few years if I save up some good down payment or have extra tucked away in case of a rainy day.

...and I have very minimal (in the high hundreds) credit card debt...and no other real debt other than a mortgage that is less by a fair chunk than what I qualify for.

I was told that I could buy anything that took the payment to about $650 or $700 easily, but that is wayyy more than I am confortable with.

So how should someone really decide how much of a payment they can take on?

Chris

As much as your banker will allow. :smilewide:

If you make $60k a year, then a $60k car could be affordable. I wouldn't go higher than that. So much depends on what your other debts are. I know many people who pay their home off, kick the kids out and then treat themselves to an expensive toy. However, with kids and a mortgage, 25% of your annual salary might be too high.

Link to post
Share on other sites
He quit after 3 months. He hated the atmosphere, hated the amount of sleeze - and they weren't selling any cars there! I guess he was surprised that he had to actually work for half the money he was used to making!

I think the decline in buisiness ethics is a big part of the decline of western commerce. Just my two cents, but....

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the decline in buisiness ethics is a big part of the decline of western commerce. Just my two cents, but....

Chris

This is a tough business to keep one's integrity in, believe me!

Case in point: a young woman (she was pretty hot - even I'd do her!) came in on Thursday. She wanted a Malibu. She'd already been somewhere else, driven one and knew what she wanted. We worked the numbers, she was happy and wanted to do the deal. I told her I needed her driver's license, insurance information, a $500 deposit and then she would go see the business manager who would do the paperwork. Oh, she says, I don't have my debit card or visa on me. Okay, I replied, let's just do the paperwork and you can bring me the deposit later. She agreed, but when I came back with some paperwork after my boss had checked things over, she suddenly had to get her kid from daycare and would be back 'in a half hour' with $500 cash. Fine.

Three hours passed. I left a message on her cell, warning her we were closing in an hour. No reply. It's a truism in this business that when a client claims to not have money or credit for the deposit that there is a big problem. Saturday morning, I left a second message, still keeping my tone polite and calm, even though I wanted to rip her face off through the phone. At 5 pm Saturday, she called me, wondering why I hadn't called her. It turns out she had given me her work #. Oh. She wanted to come in right then but she was on the other side of the city and we closed in less than an hour. She agreed to come in at 10:30 on Monday.

I worked 12 hours on Monday because I came in at 10:00 for her and she never showed. She has not returned any of my subsequent calls either.

So I've been 'had.' I can live with that, except that I came in 4 hours early for my shift and wasted my entire day.

Yesterday, one of the guys spent 3 hours with a younger guy (he was a bit of a freak) who 'bought' an Aveo, then it turns out his credit is horrible. No deposit from him either. I suspected this punk had already been turned down by Kia, which is where he'd already been. The salesman was pissed. Do these idiots not realize that we all use the same credit bureau?

So next time you get a bitchy salesman, give him a break. You don't know what kind of people he has already put up with that day. It is a two way street.

Link to post
Share on other sites
We do internet quotes all the time. They are a huge waste of time. 90% never even have the courtesy of getting back to us. I especially love the ones from 4-500 miles away: clearly they are just keeping their local dealer honest.

I think it can be argued that this type of shopping is not going away, but the dealer body is going to have to come to terms with it. These deals tend to be very low 'gross' deals.

No offense, but I think your "can't do" attitude is what is souring your impression of internet deals.

The reason I'm doing this at Caddy is because our GM offered the internet department to ANY salesperson that wanted it....and no one took it.

Last month, I had the second HIGHEST gross in the dealership from the highest number of units. I also made the second HIGHEST commission for the month. AND the guy that beat me in gross and commission was lucky to have a few HUGE pounders during the month.....so even though he beat me, he didn't beat me by much.

THIS month, I'm second highest in unit count (one unit behind the leader) and also second highest in gross....and in commissions.

All I do is internet deals....no floor ups.

So clearly......there is gross and profit to be made in the internet. The difference is.....I believe in it.....and I work it.....and I know how to get people in and still hold profit.

It's all in attitude.

(Edit: The VAST majority of my internet customers, maybe 85%, don't even work numbers with me UNTIL they get here to the store. Maybe only 15% of my customers actually negotiate numbers over the phone/email. Most internet customers are internet researchers.....not internet buyers, per se.)

(A good internet manager/salesperson knows that the biggest importance is to get these people into your store before you work numbers. If you do that, you kill the chances of them shopping you. I truly believe that's what has helped me be successful with it.)

Edited by The O.C.
Link to post
Share on other sites
No offense, but I think your "can't do" attitude is what is souring your impression of internet deals.

The reason I'm doing this at Caddy is because our GM offered the internet department to ANY salesperson that wanted it....and no one took it.

Last month, I had the second HIGHEST gross in the dealership from the highest number of units. I also made the second HIGHEST commission for the month. AND the guy that beat me in gross and commission was lucky to have a few HUGE pounders during the month.....so even though he beat me, he didn't beat me by much.

THIS month, I'm second highest in unit count (one unit behind the leader) and also second highest in gross....and in commissions.

All I do is internet deals....no floor ups.

So clearly......there is gross and profit to be made in the internet. The difference is.....I believe in it.....and I work it.....and I know how to get people in and still hold profit.

It's all in attitude.

(Edit: The VAST majority of my internet customers, maybe 85%, don't even work numbers with me UNTIL they get here to the store. Maybe only 15% of my customers actually negotiate numbers over the phone/email. Most internet customers are internet researchers.....not internet buyers, per se.)

(A good internet manager/salesperson knows that the biggest importance is to get these people into your store before you work numbers. If you do that, you kill the chances of them shopping you. I truly believe that's what has helped me be successful with it.)

QFT.

I think the O.C understands me.... 8) And I would have to agree with him.... :yes:

The internet is going to play a big part in sales...no matter which way you look at it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This is a tough business to keep one's integrity in, believe me!

Case in point: a young woman (she was pretty hot - even I'd do her!) came in on Thursday. She wanted a Malibu. She'd already been somewhere else, driven one and knew what she wanted. We worked the numbers, she was happy and wanted to do the deal. I told her I needed her driver's license, insurance information, a $500 deposit and then she would go see the business manager who would do the paperwork. Oh, she says, I don't have my debit card or visa on me. Okay, I replied, let's just do the paperwork and you can bring me the deposit later. She agreed, but when I came back with some paperwork after my boss had checked things over, she suddenly had to get her kid from daycare and would be back 'in a half hour' with $500 cash. Fine.

Three hours passed. I left a message on her cell, warning her we were closing in an hour. No reply. It's a truism in this business that when a client claims to not have money or credit for the deposit that there is a big problem. Saturday morning, I left a second message, still keeping my tone polite and calm, even though I wanted to rip her face off through the phone. At 5 pm Saturday, she called me, wondering why I hadn't called her. It turns out she had given me her work #. Oh. She wanted to come in right then but she was on the other side of the city and we closed in less than an hour. She agreed to come in at 10:30 on Monday.

I worked 12 hours on Monday because I came in at 10:00 for her and she never showed. She has not returned any of my subsequent calls either.

So I've been 'had.' I can live with that, except that I came in 4 hours early for my shift and wasted my entire day.

Yesterday, one of the guys spent 3 hours with a younger guy (he was a bit of a freak) who 'bought' an Aveo, then it turns out his credit is horrible. No deposit from him either. I suspected this punk had already been turned down by Kia, which is where he'd already been. The salesman was pissed. Do these idiots not realize that we all use the same credit bureau?

So next time you get a bitchy salesman, give him a break. You don't know what kind of people he has already put up with that day. It is a two way street.

That reminds me of the story my salesguy told me a few weeks ago...One of his sales was involved in a pretty big accident during a test drive, and he had just come back from the hospital (just a few bruises), sat down in his chair, and then a customer ripped him a good one for not talking to him.

He told me the owner told the guy the the last customer nearly killed him, so you might want to be nicer....

At least the guy bought a truck......

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been to 3 dealers; drove 3 Lacrossse

Supers and an '07 Lucerne CXL V-8.

Shopping under this promotion is difficult indeed. One dealer tried to add junk fees; I walked. Another tried to strong arm me to take GMAC financing, promising they would absorb my remaining lease payments (approx $1,000.00). I was told that the $2,000.00 bonus for turning in the GMAC lease early required the buyer to take GMAC financing on the new vehicle.

Does the $2,000.00 bonus apply to a new 2007?

Edited by rivieraranch
Link to post
Share on other sites
No offense, but I think your "can't do" attitude is what is souring your impression of internet deals.

The reason I'm doing this at Caddy is because our GM offered the internet department to ANY salesperson that wanted it....and no one took it.

Last month, I had the second HIGHEST gross in the dealership from the highest number of units. I also made the second HIGHEST commission for the month. AND the guy that beat me in gross and commission was lucky to have a few HUGE pounders during the month.....so even though he beat me, he didn't beat me by much.

THIS month, I'm second highest in unit count (one unit behind the leader) and also second highest in gross....and in commissions.

All I do is internet deals....no floor ups.

So clearly......there is gross and profit to be made in the internet. The difference is.....I believe in it.....and I work it.....and I know how to get people in and still hold profit.

It's all in attitude.

(Edit: The VAST majority of my internet customers, maybe 85%, don't even work numbers with me UNTIL they get here to the store. Maybe only 15% of my customers actually negotiate numbers over the phone/email. Most internet customers are internet researchers.....not internet buyers, per se.)

(A good internet manager/salesperson knows that the biggest importance is to get these people into your store before you work numbers. If you do that, you kill the chances of them shopping you. I truly believe that's what has helped me be successful with it.)

Well, I've said this before: it's a different world south of the border. BTW, I was mystery shopped in March by an internet lead and my example was held up in front of the GMDA meeting as an example of excellence. They want us to do a sales pitch and give prices for finance, cash, etc. for EVERY quote. I am not new at this, but replying to internet leads is a huge waste of time and I think the dealers should boycott them all.

My previous dealer was involved with AutoByTel about 9 years ago and because I was the only person with computer skills then, I got sucked into doing all of them. I remember in December 2000, as an experiment, I set up a template on my computer to expedite my replies so that I had a grid with the vehicle requested, options, and leasing/financing options all spelled out. I sent out 80 repllies that month (all with $800 gross which was HALF what we would have normally accepted in those days) and sold ZERO vehicles. I gave the portfolio back to the manager and we cancelled our association with AutoByTel. Even if I'd sold one or two vehicles, the amount we would have made, the running around with dealer trades and the nightmare those types of customers are in real life (nitpick over everything), it just isn't worth it.

Believe me, it's not my attitude, it's the attitude of the internet shoppers. And in case you haven't noticed, OC, many of them are on C&G: they could care less if the dealer makes a dime and most of them already have numbers from their dealer across the street and what they are looking for is something to browbeat them with. Look at it from the customer's point of view: they lose nothing. For 20 seconds on GM's website, they can get 15 dealers to jump hoops and work out leasing, financing and cash numbers on any number of vehicles - and I wager half the inquiries are not even seriously in the market! It's lose-lose for the dealers. We are quoting $600 gross deals over the internet now, no admin fees - nothing, and maybe selling 4 or 5 vehicles a month from it. What's the point? You don't think we haven't tried being cute and coy to lure them into the dealer? 90% don't have a phone number or address on their inquiry - what does that tell you? Mahybe I should move to Nevada, if your customers are stupid enough to be lured into the dealer without numbers first.

Case in point, I had an inquiry from Timmins Ontario (about an 8 hour drive north of the city) yesterday! WTF? Does he think I am that stupid? Is he going to drive 8 hours and spend $200 in gas to buy a Silverado? All he will do is take my numbers (in writing on the internet) and go to his local dealer and badger him with it. Frankly, what I plan to do is highball the guy so the dealer in Timmins can make some money. He has specifically requested 'my best price.' What's unequivocable about that? Do you think a sales pitch on the internet is going to work? He could give a f$#k about my dealerships high CSI standing, my 12 years in the biz or any other crap. He wants to steal the truck and would throw his grandmother in with the deal if it meant saving another $50.

It's a suckers game. We do all the work and get a flat deal, if we are lucky. Now, if the dealer wants to double our 'flats' and we'll just quote everyone at cost, well that's another matter!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Believe me, it's not my attitude, it's the attitude of the internet shoppers. And in case you haven't noticed, OC, many of them are on C&G: they could care less if the dealer makes a dime and most of them already have numbers from their dealer across the street and what they are looking for is something to browbeat them with. Look at it from the customer's point of view: they lose nothing. For 20 seconds on GM's website, they can get 15 dealers to jump hoops and work out leasing, financing and cash numbers on any number of vehicles - and I wager half the inquiries are not even seriously in the market! It's lose-lose for the dealers. We are quoting $600 gross deals over the internet now, no admin fees - nothing, and maybe selling 4 or 5 vehicles a month from it. What's the point? You don't think we haven't tried being cute and coy to lure them into the dealer? 90% don't have a phone number or address on their inquiry - what does that tell you? Mahybe I should move to Nevada, if your customers are stupid enough to be lured into the dealer without numbers first.

Case in point, I had an inquiry from Timmins Ontario (about an 8 hour drive north of the city) yesterday! WTF? Does he think I am that stupid? Is he going to drive 8 hours and spend $200 in gas to buy a Silverado? All he will do is take my numbers (in writing on the internet) and go to his local dealer and badger him with it. Frankly, what I plan to do is highball the guy so the dealer in Timmins can make some money. He has specifically requested 'my best price.' What's unequivocable about that? Do you think a sales pitch on the internet is going to work? He could give a f$#k about my dealerships high CSI standing, my 12 years in the biz or any other crap. He wants to steal the truck and would throw his grandmother in with the deal if it meant saving another $50.

It's a suckers game. We do all the work and get a flat deal, if we are lucky. Now, if the dealer wants to double our 'flats' and we'll just quote everyone at cost, well that's another matter!

Did you at ALL read my post that you responded to?

I simply refuse to believe that internet shoppers in Canada are really any different than internet shoppers here in the States.

My whole point in my post was......that I've sold units.....and held decent gross......and made a nice paycheck for myself......and good profits for the dealership (at least complementary profits to what floor traffic brings in)......all on internet business.

It can happen.....can be successful.....can make the dealership money......and can give an internet salesperson a nice paycheck.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Did you at ALL read my post that you responded to?

I simply refuse to believe that internet shoppers in Canada are really any different than internet shoppers here in the States.

My whole point in my post was......that I've sold units.....and held decent gross......and made a nice paycheck for myself......and good profits for the dealership (at least complementary profits to what floor traffic brings in)......all on internet business.

It can happen.....can be successful.....can make the dealership money......and can give an internet salesperson a nice paycheck.

And I've categorically stated that that is not the case here. Nobody I know who works the internet leads makes money at it. Even the used cars have to be advertised with a heavy discount just to get people to respond.

If you read my reply, General Motors in Canada wants us to give the customer ALL the information on our reply: prices, payments, features - everything. Most people never bother to reply once they have what they want and most of our internet 'leads' have no address or phone number to follow up with.

How is one supposed to sell the dealer and yourself with that type of customer? I'm glad that YOU are having success, but the only sales my present dealer, my last dealer, or any of the people I know in the business are having is when they literally give the vehicle away.

How could it be any other way, unless the customer is completely stupid? Blanket email 20 dealers (as one did just last week on an Aveo) and sit back to let them eat each other alive.

Besides, the 'average' dealer around here is only selling 50-60 new vehicles a month. Big, big difference than in the States, wouldn't you say? The hay-days of the car business in Toronto are long gone. The top dealer in the city only sells 140 a month - and they have P-B-GMC and Cadillac to draw on.

Link to post
Share on other sites
If you read my reply, General Motors in Canada wants us to give the customer ALL the information on our reply: prices, payments, features - everything. Most people never bother to reply once they have what they want and most of our internet 'leads' have no address or phone number to follow up with.

Well, I say "EFF" GM......if I'm an independent dealer, I'm not going to "drop my pants" over the internet and give the customer all pricing and payment info over the 'net.....

Of course there will always be those certain customers that you HAVE to quote prices to......but as the dealer (or internet manager) I'll be the one to make that decision on whom I'm going to quote to that extreme.....I'm certainly not going to let General Motors dictate to me how I manage my internet leads......

Link to post
Share on other sites
Have any of you guys been told if the promotion has been extended? I might have a bite on my truck, I just need more time. Oh, and I also put my name on a list at "my" dealership to drive an '09 Fit Sport Manual, they got their first shipment of '09s in today, all automatics, tragically. If GM's flailing, backpeddling and broken promises continue, I might see Fit to jump ship.
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am an internet shopper now and wouldn't do anything but that when I am having a hard time finding what I want or on a tight budget and an extra 500 can make or break my deal. I have my local dealership I have my cars get serviced and have bought there a few times when I a have the extra in my budget. But the last two times I had no choice but to do an internet deal as finding a Torrent stripped from 2007 in 2008 was very hard. I also wanted cruise and the 17inch wheels. I am sure the dealer didn't make much off me if I would have just bought the Torrent there but they made a killing on my trade I know because they sold my GP the next day for 1K and they gave me 250 for it. They over doubled there profit. I don't feel like a bad buyer or an evil person not wanting to pay more than what I have to for something. I just asked for the lowest price on the Torrent and it was very resonable and smoothered on the GM card earning (2K maxed out) **came out of GM's pocket** and my trade and bought the car. My previous internet deal didn't work out as well the dealer high-ups were jerky not the salesmen. As finding a slightly pre-owned or new Cranberry Red or White Bonneville SLE without a sunroof and leather and chrome wheels proved hard to find. Both those times I didn't need a vehicle and was tight on cash so I did the best I could on the prices and over the internet allowed me to do that. Next time I plan to go to my local dealership and give them my buisness. They know as a small dealer I told them what I paid for what I got and they say "John I can't touch that price and I don't blame you for buying it there"... "Were always happy to service them" that is where Till's makes there money. Listen I look on autotrader but I don't ask for quotes unless I am looking and I always call them not an email.

Link to post
Share on other sites
No offense, but I think your "can't do" attitude is what is souring your impression of internet deals.

The reason I'm doing this at Caddy is because our GM offered the internet department to ANY salesperson that wanted it....and no one took it.

Last month, I had the second HIGHEST gross in the dealership from the highest number of units. I also made the second HIGHEST commission for the month. AND the guy that beat me in gross and commission was lucky to have a few HUGE pounders during the month.....so even though he beat me, he didn't beat me by much.

THIS month, I'm second highest in unit count (one unit behind the leader) and also second highest in gross....and in commissions.

All I do is internet deals....no floor ups.

So clearly......there is gross and profit to be made in the internet. The difference is.....I believe in it.....and I work it.....and I know how to get people in and still hold profit.

It's all in attitude.

(Edit: The VAST majority of my internet customers, maybe 85%, don't even work numbers with me UNTIL they get here to the store. Maybe only 15% of my customers actually negotiate numbers over the phone/email. Most internet customers are internet researchers.....not internet buyers, per se.)

(A good internet manager/salesperson knows that the biggest importance is to get these people into your store before you work numbers. If you do that, you kill the chances of them shopping you. I truly believe that's what has helped me be successful with it.)

Bingo!

Salemen need to simply not act like "salesmen", and act more like customer service reps. There IS a reason saleman have such bad reputations. While there are some good ones out there, most are clueless about the product and the competiters product. Most will hardly let YOU get a word in. The best saleman is one that is a GOOD LISTENER. I couldn't tell you how many times I had to correct a salesman on thier own product that I was looking at.

In the past I remember going into a used car dealership after I was told a price on the lot, when sitting inside I could not get a word in, they kept talking right over me and got into telling me about another car they had on another lot. I asked about the car on the lot for the price he told me, he then says "I can't sell that to you at that price".... yup, just a ploy to get me inside the office. Before I knew it the saleman slid a paper over to me and asked me to sign it, and when I acted confused about what just happened he turns to the manager and says "I don't understand, we have just what he's looking for". Are you kidding me? And we are supposed to lighten up because ya got it hard? I wonder why? Why would they even have the perception that a person would sign a buyers agreement on a vehicle sight unseen?!

These type of poorly trained salesman are bad for GM, or any car manufacturer. A non brand loyal shopper will never thing to buy that brand again if they have these types of experiences. I've said it before and I'll say it again... GM should have more control over their dealerships.

Edited by BuddyP
Link to post
Share on other sites

Gosh, maybe I'll now get that Astra I have been after. I doubt I will though. I think some sort of "Volkswagen" thing has gotten under my skin.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Gosh, maybe I'll now get that Astra I have been after. I doubt I will though. I think some sort of "Volkswagen" thing has gotten under my skin.

There's a lotion that'll take care of it but you'll still have warts in that area.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, I say "EFF" GM......if I'm an independent dealer, I'm not going to "drop my pants" over the internet and give the customer all pricing and payment info over the 'net.....

Of course there will always be those certain customers that you HAVE to quote prices to......but as the dealer (or internet manager) I'll be the one to make that decision on whom I'm going to quote to that extreme.....I'm certainly not going to let General Motors dictate to me how I manage my internet leads......

It's not a matter of GM dictating anything: it's what they recommend. Five years ago, every sales seminar we got packed off to taught us a million ways to stay off price. Joe Verde is one of the industry's biggest hacks. I have been to see him (forced at gun point, I might add) 3 times over the past 12 years. Every time one of his clowns say "I used to be on the floor.." I want to spit!

(If you were so successful, why aren't you still selling cars, bub? Oh, that's right: you're getting paid more to sucker our dealer principle into paying your organization $1,500 apiece to send us to snore through your seminars for 30 hours!)

Now, GM has changed their tune and they 'recommend' we give everything the customer asks for. Okay. But if 8 other dealers are replying to the 'request,' what are the chances of actually making a sale? ZERO.

OC, I am not sure what you are considering internet customers. Up here, there are a myriad of ways a customer can contact us: directly on GM Canada's website, through GMAC pre-approvals (those are about the only internet customers that are worth replying to - but naturally the managers divy out those with great care!), through 3rd party contacts like AutoTrader (very big up here) or by replying directly to the dealer's website. There is another method, via kiosks and shows that GM puts on - most of those are total garbage: some innocent Joe at a 'kite fest' fills out a form for a 'free car' and then we get stuck with cold calling him because his postal code is in our area. The GM Canada 'queries' are mostly garbage to. Those range from a 15 year old dreaming about the price of a Corvette, to some bored postal employee at their desk wondering how much a Traverse will be when his Corolla lease is up in 3 years.

GM (and the dealership) rightly expect us to treat them all the same, because there is no way of knowing which ones are total garbage and which ones are truly 'in the market;' however, to quote them at full list or even decent gross is just another waste of time, because likely this is not the only query they are making. Let's face it, if there is no return phone number, no address of any kind, there is little hope in establishing any type of relationship. There is no point in pitching the vehicle, pitching the dealer, pitching my 12 years in the biz, etc. because this type of customer does not care. Like I said about the guy from Timmins the other day - why would he drive 8 hours each direction to come see us? Clearly he only wants numbers to beat up his local dealer. The only good thing about these internet customers is that IF (that's a big 'if') they actually show up, it's a done deal because they have the best price. Although, I've had some of those want to hammer away at a $500 deal on a Malibu. :rolleyes:

GM is the party that benefits the most. Since we are not paid until we sell something, it greatly benefits GM to have us running around in circles, giving out quotes left and right for no gross, because whether we make money or not, GM doesn't give a crap.

Since I am told GM is below 10% market share in the GTA these days, and since the Toronto economy in general is in the toilet, GM dealers are dropping like flies around here (about 10 have closed in the past 3 or 4 years) and since P-B-GMC not only has more models to sell, but more models that Torontonians like (Vibe, Acadia, Sierra,) Chevy dealers are bearing the brunt of the downturn. BTW, most of the dealers that have closed around here are Chevy stores.

We are told that Toronto is a 'mature' market, which means they don't give a frack about buying 'domestic.'

And all that is fine, but as my fellow professionals are now making HALF what they were 5 years ago, many are considering getting out altogether. If GM (and the dealers) expect 'professionals' who can keep on top of the whimsical changes of GMAC and the frequent gyrations of model changes, understand and empathisize with our customers AND work every weekend for the rest of our lives, they are going to have to find another way other than the current commission structure to keep said professionals.

Oh, yeah - and GMAC stopped leases a month ago. 40% of my portfolio was from leasing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been buying from salespeople who cater to me on the phone and email for the last close to 10 years. my 99 prizm i found on GM buypower and consummated the deal via email with the internet sales guy at the chevy dealer back then. since then, emails and a phone call or two is all you need. figure out your fair price like stang said, tell them you are serious, give them an offer. OC sounds like a guy i would do business with. He sees that my time and being direct and to the point are important.

The T Rex i bought a couple weeks ago. My 500 i got from the dealer by my house because the salesguy was cordial, and took care of any concern i wanted and was quick and consistent with keeping in touch with me via email. He left, so i tried to do business with another salesman there.....but he didn't 'get it'. Unresponsive, and was more interested in serving his needs than mine. When i saw also like OC said that the leasing was not going to even come close as an option this time around I started used hunting. I found a unit online and called the dealer. Within a couple hours i had been contacted via phone and email, and the sales guy promised to follow up with me as i wish. The next morning i got skittish on missing out on a good deal and i drove up and bought the car. The whole thing was consumated via email and couple phone calls that morning. The financing was done in an hour or so and i could have even driven the rig home that day. Point being, the sales guy made it convenient for me and was very can do and pleasant and non pressure, yet made sure to let me know he would work with me in the most expedient and electronically convenient way possible.

I didn't want to spend all day dicking around with a new flunkie trying to hear him painfully recite some vehicle features he thought he knew from reading the brochure.

For close to ten years now i buy vehicles from internet guys or salesguys with email and internet savvy. they understand what i want and how i want it. i don't need to be stuck with the rube who is on the floor just to fill a quota for bodies on the floor. that makes me NOT want to buy the car from that person.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Gosh, maybe I'll now get that Astra I have been after. I doubt I will though. I think some sort of "Volkswagen" thing has gotten under my skin.

I'm kinda thinkithe same thing about VW, although I'd like at least one GM vehicle in the fleet...(Solstice Targa anyone?)

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am shopping for a new Lucerne and noticed that there are still some 2007 CXL V-8's and CXS around. Two dealers quoted me approximately 22.5% off MSRP, which is 8% more discount than one would realize for an '08 Lucerne under GM's employee pricing scheme. It doesn't seem to be enough off to make it worthwhile for an '07. What discount would be appropriate for a held over '07 Lucerne V-8?

Edited by rivieraranch
Link to post
Share on other sites
I am shopping for a new Lucerne and noticed that there are still some 2007 CXL V-8's and CXS around. Two dealers quoted me approximately 22.5% off MSRP, which is 8% more discount than one would realize for an '08 Lucerne under GM's employee pricing scheme. It doesn't seem to be enough off to make it worthwhile for an '07. What discount would be appropriate for a held over '07 Lucerne V-8?

2007 models are not included in this program, so it would be up to you to haggle with the dealer and come to a price you both can agree on. Make an offer you feel comfortable with, then see if the dealer bites.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I am shopping for a new Lucerne and noticed that there are still some 2007 CXL V-8's and CXS around. Two dealers quoted me approximately 22.5% off MSRP, which is 8% more discount than one would realize for an '08 Lucerne under GM's employee pricing scheme. It doesn't seem to be enough off to make it worthwhile for an '07. What discount would be appropriate for a held over '07 Lucerne V-8?

Well, I think a good offer off would still get them to take it....

They can't sell the Lucys that they have now...

I can't see why 30% would work....couldn't hurt to try....

Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, I think a good offer off would still get them to take it....

They can't sell the Lucys that they have now...

I can't see why 30% would work....couldn't hurt to try....

That's true, come to think of it. I see a lot of '08 Lucernes still in stock on the west coast of Florida, where there are a lot of what you could call traditional Buick customers. There are nice colors, too, red, gold, etc., not just white or gray cars like the post office would buy.

I am going to work my way north from South Florida and try making a deal on an '07. The first dealer who decides not to be a jerk about this will make a deal. If they were reasonable they wouldn't have any of these '07's in the first place.

Link to post
Share on other sites
That's true, come to think of it. I see a lot of '08 Lucernes still in stock on the west coast of Florida, where there are a lot of what you could call traditional Buick customers. There are nice colors, too, red, gold, etc., not just white or gray cars like the post office would buy.

I am going to work my way north from South Florida and try making a deal on an '07. The first dealer who decides not to be a jerk about this will make a deal. If they were reasonable they wouldn't have any of these '07's in the first place.

Yep. Hopefully you find one... :yes:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.