trinacriabob

Two bad choices for President - do you agree?

67 posts in this topic

I'm on the way to work today and one sees headlines on the paper, the MSN home page and all kinds of crap. And then you can't help but think:

Aren't both Presidential tickets lacking?

At the time we need good leadership the most, we have (1) a reasonably likable but 72 y.o. Arizona Republican who picks a woman who just had a baby within the last 6 months and whose (national and) international political savvy is thoroughly questionable, and (2) a well-educated but almost completely inexperienced Illinois Democrat who delivers all this unsubstantiated rhetoric and sounds like a Bible church preacher if you're listening to him from the other room.

Out of 302 million people living here, is this all there is?

To the smart people out there, and I think that's almost everyone here: (1) doesn't it scare you that this small-town Idaho newscaster who went to a handful of colleges to get ONE degree... and winks.... could be your Commander in Chief? and (2) don't you realize that this man who is thought to be charismatic and articulate will hardly solve all of our problems and that the stripes of US flag as a fading inset within a large "O," as if it was a "field of dreams," is just a "pipe dream?" Seriously...it's a Presidential election, not a judging call at a Toastmasters meeting.

Yes, both Presidential tickets are lacking.

Chime in...but try to keep it civil.

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Even though Obama wasn't my favorite choice in the primaries, as a college educated young person that is just starting out in the working world and has been following the main issues of both, I feel most comfortable with him being president. I'm tired of seeing all our money go overseas to this war as we let things go from bad to worse at home. I am a former Republican turned Independent because that party no longer reflects the core values of conservative policy.

Palin scares the hell out of me. Especially when it comes to foreign diplomacy. In a global world where we are losing our dominance, we can't afford any more bad relations than we have had the last eight years.

I don't like the idea of the government taking control of our banks and handing out money to everyone, but we're at the point where it's saving our ass from economic catastrophe. I'm not a fan of big government (especially when it comes to Constitutional rights and privacy), but we have let Wall Street run amuck and putting regulation on them will restore order and get the crooks out.

I don't think Obama will be able to accomplish all he has laid out, but I don't think he is all talk either. The key thing for me is that he has laid out a solid plan and stuck to it. He also has focused his campaign more on his policy rather than petty character attacks.

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1) Obama will likely have super majorities in both house and senate and thus will not likely have to be bi-partisan in any measure... which quite frankly scares the hell out of me because any sibilance of conservatism in fiscal policy will be lost even worse than the hack job our current administration has done with it.

2) After the liberals get some bills passed the public will invariably turn against them and get a republican majority back in 2010.

3) in 2012 Hillary will successfully run against Obama, or totally divide the party if she fails.

4) Chuck Norris will be the GOP candidate and will easily win.

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I dont think either one is ideal but I will side with Obama on this one. How much does McCain mention the middle class? Hardly at all. Seems he is getting awfully desperate with his ads and that he has to dig up something from 40 years ago to try to discredit Obama. I really do not want him to be the one dealing with the foreign countries. Bush has done enough damage on that front. Just because he is a war hero doesnt mean he is capable of running a country. Ullysys S Grant is an example of that.

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I'm on the way to work today and one sees headlines on the paper, the MSN home page and all kinds of crap. And then you can't help but think:

Aren't both Presidential tickets lacking?

At the time we need good leadership the most, we have (1) a reasonably likable but 72 y.o. Arizona Republican who picks a woman who just had a baby within the last 6 months and whose (national and) international political savvy is thoroughly questionable, and (2) a well-educated but almost completely inexperienced Illinois Democrat who delivers all this unsubstantiated rhetoric and sounds like a Bible church preacher if you're listening to him from the other room.

Out of 302 million people living here, is this all there is?

To the smart people out there, and I think that's almost everyone here: (1) doesn't it scare you that this small-town Idaho newscaster who went to a handful of colleges to get ONE degree... and winks.... could be your Commander in Chief? and (2) don't you realize that this man who is thought to be charismatic and articulate will hardly solve all of our problems and that the stripes of US flag as a fading inset within a large "O," as if it was a "field of dreams," is just a "pipe dream?" Seriously...it's a Presidential election, not a judging call at a Toastmasters meeting.

Yes, both Presidential tickets are lacking.

Chime in...but try to keep it civil.

I don't feel that the Obama-Biden ticket is lacking. Combined, they are brining a substantial amount of experience and relevant education to the white house. Obama was in the Illinois senate for 8 years and the US senate for 4 years. He is a graduate of Harvard and taught constitutional law for 12 years at the University of Chicago. Before that he was president of the harvard law review. blah blah blah.

As far as McCain and Palin goes, I can't imagine anyone voting for that one other than the people who vote based on party alone.

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Yes, been saying it all along.

I'd vote for him over Obama or Hillary.

Agreed. :)

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Actually i wonder what chuck's positions on the issues are? I may actually be enthusiastic if he were to be the GOP nominee.

So... wait. You won't vote for Obama and one of the reasons you cite is lack of experience, yet you're interested in a washed up action movie star who happens to be conservative yet has never held a public office ever!

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(2) a well-educated but almost completely inexperienced Illinois Democrat who delivers all this unsubstantiated rhetoric and sounds like a Bible church preacher if you're listening to him from the other room.

1. 16 years in office is "completely inexperienced"?

2. The details behind his rhetoric is laid out for all the world to see on his website, if you'd take the time to study it you may have a better understanding of what he wants to do.

3. If sounding like a Bible church preacher is the worst you can come up with, I think we'll be ok.

Obama/Biden '08 - Bringing phonics back to the Whitehouse.

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neither would push to address "hamilton's curse"

DiLorenzo reveals how Hamilton, first as a delegate to the Constitutional Convention and later as the nation’s first and most influential treasury secretary, masterfully promoted an agenda of nationalist glory and interventionist economics—–core beliefs that did not die with Hamilton in his fatal duel with Aaron Burr. Carried on through his political heirs, the Hamiltonian legacy:

• Wrested control into the hands of the federal government by inventing the myth of the Constitution’s “implied powers”

• Established the imperial presidency (Hamilton himself proposed a permanent president—–in other words, a king)

• Devised a national banking system that imposes boom-and-bust cycles on the American economy

• Saddled Americans with a massive national debt and oppressive taxation

• Inflated the role of the federal courts in order to eviscerate individual liberties and state sovereignty

• Pushed economic policies that lined the pockets of the wealthy and created a government system built on graft, spoils, and patronage

• Transformed state governments from Jeffersonian bulwarks of liberty to beggars for federal crumbs

By debunking the Hamiltonian myths perpetuated in recent admiring biographies, DiLorenzo exposes an uncomfortable truth: The American people are no longer the masters of their government but its servants. Only by restoring a system based on Jeffersonian ideals can Hamilton’s curse be lifted, at last.

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I am a former Republican turned Independent because that party no longer reflects the core values of conservative policy.

but we have let Wall Street run amuck and putting regulation on them will restore order and get the crooks out.

Yes, Independent means thinking for oneself,

Yes, who would have thought we would see another Enron in less than 7 years?

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ricer was right on points one and two. Very true. we'll swing way too far left. I see some serious damage being done by a lefty congress and president. think its bad now? so yes, we'll have repubs back in 2010.

i would prefer we never see Hillary ever show up again.

all that said, i just am not sure i can vote for mccain. old and creepy and not seemingly having direction. Palin is hot, and seems to have skill, but she needs more grooming. Maybe in 2012. The repubs need to develop some younger, more middle of the road talent, who don't scare the pants off of people.

Funny bit, my lefty buddy sent me an email the other day....'Palin took off her blazer at a rally the other day!'

OK, aside from me wanting to see that....slowly, to music, if that is the notable thing we say about her as a candidate, then its safe to say she needs more time.

I forgot to ask him if she let her hair down, too. LMAO

Edited by regfootball
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The options are not good.

Fatal flaws all around.

+1

Mark LaNeve for president!!!!!

4) Chuck Norris will be the GOP candidate and will easily win.

Any "MAN" who claims to like the Honda Ridgeline will not get my vote. I used to like Chuck, before he made a bad judgement call.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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We might actually swing back to the middle once Obama wins. This country has been tipped too heavily to the Republican side since the end of the Clinton presidency. Hopefully, we can get supermajorities in the house and senate and start to return the government to a more centrist viewpoint. All the conservatives, will be screaming, "the sky is falling" but the truth is that there is no plan to take the country to the far left. We just need to undo the damage of the past 8 years.

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So, Barack is seeming to be a lot of people's choices on here, and frankly, that scares the hell out of me! He is a SOCIALIST who just this week told a plumber to his face that he wants to re-distribute the plumbers EARNED wealth to people who are 'behind him' in making it because they do not have his opportunity.

I am not excited about Mccain all that much, if at all, but come on! The other side wants to TAKE YOUR TAXES and GIVE it to people who DO NOT WORK or EARN "enough" to be in the Middle Class! What is the cut off for "enough", and when the people Barack wants to raise taxes on decide to put their money elsewhere - i.e. tax shelters, or become creative with accountants - where is the tax money going to come from? The Middle Class!

By the way, the 11% of the middle class that Obama keeps saying has disappeared during the Bush years...you know where they went? To the UPPER CLASS! This is the CHANGE that he is after, and that scares the hell out of me, a guy who works 70+ hours a week in a small family owned business that is a BULLS EYE in the earnings that Obama wants to go after for higher taxes to give to those 'less fortunate' than me. That is why I am voting for McCain - the lessor to two evils.

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I go Obama. Mainly because of his economic policy as well as a desire to pull our troops out of the wrong country.

McCain, for lack of any viable policies himself, has resorted to merely attacking Obama while reiterating Obama's statements as his own (see today's Washington Post). Plus, his running mate is enough to erase any desire to vote for him.

Mind you, although this will only my second time voting, I don't vote parties. Just who I deem to be clearly the best person for the job. Case in point: it'd be a MUCH harder choice for me if Huckabee had won the GOP nomination.

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I love the comments bringing back the middle class. McCains plans of cutting everyones taxes means more jobs for everyone, and therefore helping the middle class. Why you might ask? The more companys small and large get taxed the less money they have to spend on employees and wages. So when Obama gets in and raises taxes supposedly helping out the middle class and below sure you'll see money back and a greater possibility you won't have a job. John McCain has a record and a clear a record of working across the lines with people from the other party. One of the reasons I was so not ready to jump on the McCain bandwagon was because he is so moderate. I do find it funny lets bring back the middle class Obama will take away the middle class read into his plan it will kill buisness. For the reason I stated above, this country with Obama in office will swing so far left it isn't even funny instead of the balance we have today. Obama will have four years and a republican will win I can gurantee it. The country will be destoryed because companies have less money to pay there employees and therefore fire because they are being taxed more. Oh but wait that money will end up in 95% of Americans pockets but you will have a higher possibility of not having a job. If that is change we would get (and we would) I'd rather keep it the same. The other thing I find so funny is folks saying how alike McCain and Bush are that is complete horse-$h!. John McCain is no G.W.B. he is not a typical republican often times having upset his parties leadership. In 2004 Kerry even offered McCain the V.P. spot and the dems begged him to come over to there side. He didn't being a man of his word that shows how moderate and unlike G.W.B. he is. Barack's tax and spend policies scare me and of the 95% of American's he is cutting taxes is plain scary because only 60-70 percent of Americans pay taxes. So we would be giving back to the folks who pay nothing. Another example of economic re-distribution something Obama believes in just like socialism, take alot from the few rich and give to many. Obama's friends like Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers scare me as well and look whom he has helped like Acorn, training there people in addition to being a lawyer for them. Then he sent 800K to them as well, and Acorn in part can be blaimed for sub-prime problem preasuring banks/officals to loan money to folks whom could never pay it back. So when folks put it only on Bush that is crap people like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd all had hands in this. Seriously if your not scared of what this man would do like meeting with some of the most corrupt people in the world without pre-conditions that is just insane. Barack Obama is change alright and has voted 94 times to increase or to keep tax leaves high what does that say about his plan for the middle class? Or how about voting the increase taxes on folks making just 42K a year? Yup that is sticking up for the middle class alright. Face it you koolaid drinkers Obama is no JFK and JFK is the last dem I voted for. The party has changed and folks still vote for them because there is a D behind your name. If Obama gets in I have many fears and that is just a short list, and looking at his lack of a voting record voting present nearly 50% of the time and the other times he has voted it is the most liberal record in the senate and that is what the middle class wants right? If Obama gets in this country will head deeper into the $h!ter you just wait. If Obama's friends don't scare you, his voting record then his planned policies should. A vote for Obama is a one step closer to bigger goverment that will hurt buisness and the lessen the chances of growing it. A vote for Obama will ensure we are one step closer to socialism. A vote for Obama will ensure a change but not a change for the better. A vote for Obama is a vote a man with extreme values and beliefs.

John McCain has had a clear record and has always put his country first honoring first in and first out when he was a POW. That says alot about the man so disagree with him about what you want but you know you can trust him. Where-as Obama does what ever gives him the most political gain so when it was helpful to have Rev. Wright on his side he used him and then dis-owned him.

Go ahead vote for change but change can be a bad thing. :banghead:

Edited by gm4life
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So, Barack is seeming to be a lot of people's choices on here, and frankly, that scares the hell out of me! He is a SOCIALIST who just this week told a plumber to his face that he wants to re-distribute the plumbers EARNED wealth to people who are 'behind him' in making it because they do not have his opportunity.

I am not excited about Mccain all that much, if at all, but come on! The other side wants to TAKE YOUR TAXES and GIVE it to people who DO NOT WORK or EARN "enough" to be in the Middle Class! What is the cut off for "enough", and when the people Barack wants to raise taxes on decide to put their money elsewhere - i.e. tax shelters, or become creative with accountants - where is the tax money going to come from? The Middle Class!

By the way, the 11% of the middle class that Obama keeps saying has disappeared during the Bush years...you know where they went? To the UPPER CLASS! This is the CHANGE that he is after, and that scares the hell out of me, a guy who works 70+ hours a week in a small family owned business that is a BULLS EYE in the earnings that Obama wants to go after for higher taxes to give to those 'less fortunate' than me. That is why I am voting for McCain - the lessor to two evils.

What in sam hell are you talking about?

Most small businesses DO NOT have an adjusted gross income higher than $250,000.

How do you account for the 11million people now out of work in this country? Are they now so affluent that they were middle class, but now don't have to work?

You want to see Socialist? How about this bank bailout? $700 Billion dollars going to the richest people in this country... and even in other countries.

If you're going to go on uninformed rants, at least have the decency to link to things to back your $h! up.

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I love the comments bringing back the middle class. McCains plans of cutting everyones taxes means more jobs for everyone, and therefore helping the middle class. Why you might ask? The more companys small and large get taxed the less money they have to spend on employees and wages. So when Obama gets in and raises taxes supposedly helping out the middle class and below sure you'll see money back and a greater possibility you won't have a job.

80+ years of trickle down economics have led us to where we are today. You keep posting this erroneous statement over and over as if repeating it will make it true. But tell you what... I'll support a tax cut (not really a cut, but an extension of the Bush reductions) if you support a MASSIVE increase in the minimum wage for full time workers. Income has STAGNATED for the past 40 years in this country. CEOs are now making 400 times the salary as your average workers... and for what? For driving this country head first into the iceburg.

By infusing the middle class with funds they will have money to spend on "stuff". A CEO doesn't need a tax cut to buy a new car, "Joe Sixpack" does.

My great grandfather was the President of a multinational cooperation. He did well, but he wasn't pulling down anything like what these CEOs are getting today. He and my great-grandmother had one car, a 1983 Caprice Classic V6, and a modest town home.

John McCain has a record and a clear a record of working across the lines with people from the other party. One of the reasons I was so not ready to jump on the McCain bandwagon was because he is so moderate. I do find it funny lets bring back the middle class Obama will take away the middle class read into his plan it will kill buisness. For the reason I stated above, this country with Obama in office will swing so far left it isn't even funny instead of the balance we have today.

We don't have balance today. The republicans have created an unregulated free for all in the banking industry. McCain wants to do the same for your healthcare. You are so off the mark with your "Obama killz bidneessses" it's laughable. Most small businesses do NOT make over $250k a year AGI. Most small businesses will get tax CUTS.

Obama will have four years and a republican will win I can gurantee it. The country will be destoryed because companies have less money to pay there employees and therefore fire because they are being taxed more. Oh but wait that money will end up in 95% of Americans pockets but you will have a higher possibility of not having a job. If that is change we would get (and we would) I'd rather keep it the same.

Companies ALREADY don't have money to pay their employees but it is NOT BECAUSE OF TAXES!!!!! Holy crap you're getting aggravating by repeating this over and over even though I've corrected you already.

REPEAT AFTER ME:

THIS IS NOT A TAX PROBLEM. THIS IS A CREDIT PROBLEM.

THIS IS NOT A TAX PROBLEM. THIS IS A CREDIT PROBLEM.

THIS IS NOT A TAX PROBLEM. THIS IS A CREDIT PROBLEM.

Please please please PLEASE learn this and understand it!

The other thing I find so funny is folks saying how alike McCain and Bush are that is complete horse-$h!. John McCain is no G.W.B. he is not a typical republican often times having upset his parties leadership. In 2004 Kerry even offered McCain the V.P. spot and the dems begged him to come over to there side. He didn't being a man of his word that shows how moderate and unlike G.W.B. he is.

If you think that was anything other than a purely political move, you're more out of it than I thought. McCain was SMART not to take that bait. McCain is unlike Bush in that he can form complete sentences.

Barack's tax and spend policies scare me (borrow and spend doesn't? That's what McCain is proposing) and of the 95% of American's he is cutting taxes is plain scary because only 60-70 percent of Americans pay taxes. So we would be giving back to the folks who pay nothing. Another example of economic re-distribution something Obama believes in just like socialism, take alot from the few rich and give to many. (As opposed to taking from the many to give to the rich... like we're doing now?)

Obama's friends like Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers scare me as well and look whom he has helped like Acorn, training there people in addition to being a lawyer for them.

In case you missed it, pictures and video of McCain at an ACORN function surfaced over the weekend. Large donors that funded and endorsed McCain have also funded Ayers. McCain's head of transition team was a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein.

John McCain has had a clear record and has always put his country first honoring first in and first out when he was a POW. That says alot about the man so disagree with him about what you want but you know you can trust him. Where-as Obama does what ever gives him the most political gain so when it was helpful to have Rev. Wright on his side he used him and then dis-owned him.

Go ahead vote for change but change can be a bad thing. :banghead:

You are now simply full of it.

McCain has been to ACORN functions.

McCain has accepted money from people who have funded terrorism <Ayers>

McCain has man on his campaign staff who was a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein.

McCain has Borrow and Spend policies that will only further this nation's currency crisis.

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1) Obama will likely have super majorities in both house and senate and thus will not likely have to be bi-partisan in any measure... which quite frankly scares the hell out of me because any sibilance of conservatism in fiscal policy will be lost even worse than the hack job our current administration has done with it.

I totally agree......and don't forget, the democratic congress is facing even lower approval ratings than the Bush administration itself.....

Obama's going to be a rubber-stamp approver for the congress......with him there ARE NO checks-and-balances.....

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Lamar I like Huckabee also and Obama vs. Huckabee is a bigger jump than McCain vs. Obama.

I'm trying to remember the last time we actually had a STRONG race... when we had to think to vote for the best person instead of voting for one because we hate the other.

However, the Iraq War issue always tends to sway me.

Edited by Lamar
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