Chris_Doane

....

39 posts in this topic

So, when do you think we'll see a GM version of the Prius. It only makes sense, once Toyota buys GM they have to give them ONE desirable model.
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Well, what the press predicts WILL come true, in time.. Just wait.

They'll get their wish. Who knew they would've been so efficient these past few years though? Especially after they all sold us so well on a revival.

And, surprise-surprise, the BIGGEST load of garbage is coming from one of the most import biased sources, Detroit Free Press.

Keep killing those stock prices! Good job! (Sarcasm)

First they destroyed Chrysler (Whic resulted in a sell off) Then they destroyed Ford (Which would've resulted in bankruptcy or a sell off had the Ford family still not been involved and now it's GM's turn. Time to slay the dragon. American media: 3 and 0

: Michigan's largest company could be bought by a corporate raider like Las Vegas billionaire Kirk Kerkorian.


GOOD!

So the emotional toll would be severe if GM fails the state and its workforce.


IF GM FAILS?!?!?!?!? IF GM FAILS?!?!?!

This COUNTRY failed GM. Payback is fair game.

"Yet we have only experienced the first waves of the approaching economic tsunami," he added. "Today's global phenomena such as outsourcing and off-shoring have destroyed the viability of low-skill, high-wage manufacturing jobs ... as a source of prosperity and social well-being."


EXACTLY... Soon, we'll have more people than jobs in this country and I'm not talking about the typical 5% unemployment rate. Either you secure your future through competition and education or you have no future because other americans DO NOT care about your well being and the government CERTAINLY doesn't either obviously or they wouldn't have been AWOL for the last 10-15 years.

GM seems to be getting the message. The talk behind closed doors is now about scaling back budgets for new models, reducing payrolls by tens of thousands, and shutting factories. In meetings the first week of November with executives at the troubled North American auto division, Chairman and CEO G. Richard Wagoner Jr. said they must dramatically cut spending. He is even scrutinizing new models intended to drive sales three years from now. Publicly, Wagoner has already committed to announce in December a series of plant closings and to give more detail on how he will eliminate more than 25,000 of its 110,000 auto jobs.


:rolleyes:

Well, it looks like all those "awesome new vehicles and possibilities" were a bunch of smoke screens and mirrors AGAIN.

Should sales continue to fall, more factories could be shuttered later, says one company source.


I think we ALL know the answer to that, especially the media and analysts.
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"Scaling back budgets for new models" Here we go again... :rolleyes:

[post="41843"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Isn't this where the budgeting should be directed to? Seems like they'd want to get new models out to sell.
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Honestly? I'm not that concerned. With the Delphi situation, GM is poised to get some serious concessions on the next round of UAW contract negotiations.
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If something isn't done soon, GM will be looking at bankruptcy. There's no doubt about it. But I don't think the problems that need to be fixed will be. It seems to me that GM is living in a fantasy world where they can B.S their way out of any trouble by making the same false promises they've always made. They've narrowly escaped this fate too many times. One of these days, the hammer will fall. And, you know, I'm starting to think that isn't such a bad thing. Maybe then they'll learn.
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Here's an entity that has a stock value of aprox 14 billion but also is sitting on 19 billion in cash and who knows how much property. What this says more than anything else is how huge the load for employee and retiree benefits really is.
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Hmm. Anyone ever watch the Animatrix? Where the robots started making their own industry, stupid humans started buying nothing but robot products, then got pissed when the human markets started crashing? Nobody is helping GM. Not the consumers, not the press, not themselves. This sucks....I wont ever own a foreign car. I never want to or care to. Oh and at least some bit of sunlight...gas prices are on the drop again, just in time for the GMT-900 releases. Maybe, just maybe, it will drive people to look into SUVs again. Edited by mystik
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I said it before and I will say it again, I know there are fans of certain models, but GM really needs to do a clean house. Entry level - Chevy / GMC Merged in. Mid Level - Buick/Pontiac/saturn merged in. High end - Cadillac. GM does not need 6 brands. They can turn high profits by closing down names and cleaning up the house to where 3 divisions get the proper resources to have updates and change every 3-5 years and keep things fresh and poppin so that buyers keep coming in. I love the General and all my Vehicles, 1 - 94 suburban, 1- 98 S-10, 1-99 cavalier and 1 2005 CTS for the wife. My two kids and wife love their cars, but really the market is not what it used to be and what GM really needs is a focused approach in the market. Yes this means some dealers will have to change or go out of business but that is the reality of the price game. If a dealer only stays with one brand today, they will not grow. I for one vote with my money on the General surviving, but still holding and buying more stock as it really is a value right now. Yet the hard decisions have to be made and not everyone can be happy or will like it but plants need to close, people need to be laid off and divisions closed. The global economy is here to stay and you have to change with it or be left in the dust. End Game! <_<
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The last thing we need is GM getting drunk on SUV sales again and neglecting to put money towards the cars. Before you know it it'll be 2011 and we'll still be driving W-body WIMPalas and Grand Prixs.
GM doesn't have six brands. You forgot Hummer, Daewoo and Saab. I could stand for Saturn, Saab and Daewoo to be spun off, but the rest can stay. GMC make too much money to get rid of and Buick/Pontiac cater to different markets.

[post="41991"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



The Daewoo brand isn't sold in the US....so GM has 8 brands in the US... (plus 4 outside the US--Daewoo, Vauxhall, Opel & Holden).

I don't see how with only 20% market share in the US GM can maintain 8 brands...
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I don't see how with only 20% market share in the US GM can maintain 8 brands...

[post="41998"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Why? Ford does it (17%-20% market share) with 7 brands.

Ford
Mazda
Mercury
Volvo
Lincoln
Jaguar
Aston Martin

Ford and Chevy can maintain their volume and Dealer network, but like Ford is doing with PAG and has already done with Lincoln-Mercury, GM is doing with Buick-Pontiac-GMC... making the brands consolidate under one rooftop. HUMMER & Saturn don't have large dealership networks so their volume can support the dealers but I have no clue about SAAB.
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Some of the import brands need to be killed off if GM is to survive. The market is too competetive. If Mitsubishi could be crushed and driven out of the U.S. market, that would be a major win. VW/Audi aren't doing that well and should be on the hitlist as well. The premium Germans (BMW and Mercedes) should be kept to the market share that they are at.
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Some of the import brands need to be killed off if GM is to survive.  The market is too competetive.  If Mitsubishi could be crushed and driven out of the U.S. market, that would be a major win.  VW/Audi aren't doing that well and should be on the hitlist as well.

The premium Germans (BMW and Mercedes) should be kept to the market share that they are at.

[post="42028"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thats Right .
Instead of GM cutting the good old divisions get rid of lame foreign cars . Mitsu is a dead man walking , VW quality did them in the last time . Half of Toyota hardly sells , Infinity is low delivery , Mazda can go , I don't see many Kias , Subaru does not move many vehicles beyond Connecticut and Vermont .
That is a great idea , lose the imports
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Thats Right .
Instead of GM cutting the good old divisions get rid of lame foreign cars . Mitsu is a dead man walking , VW quality did them in the last time . Half of Toyota hardly sells , Infinity is low delivery , Mazda can go , I don't see many Kias , Subaru does not move many vehicles beyond Connecticut and Vermont .
That is a great idea , lose the imports

[post="42040"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



Well, I don't know about killing off Toyota, LOL LOL! But it is a good idea for GM to attempt to limit Toyota's future growth.
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Why? Ford does it (17%-20% market share) with 7 brands.

Ford
Mazda
Mercury
Volvo
Lincoln
Jaguar
Aston Martin

Ford and Chevy can maintain their volume and Dealer network, but like Ford has done with PAG and already does with Lincoln-Mercury, GM is doing with Buick-Pontiac-GMC... making the brands consolidate under one rooftop. HUMMER & Saturn don't have large dealership networks so their volume can support the delaers but I have no clue about SAAB.

[post="42017"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Ford has only three true American brands, all other brands are sold all over the world.
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Thats Right .
Instead of GM cutting the good old divisions get rid of lame foreign cars . Mitsu is a dead man walking , VW quality did them in the last time . Half of Toyota hardly sells , Infinity is low delivery , Mazda can go , I don't see many Kias , Subaru does not move many vehicles beyond Connecticut and Vermont .
That is a great idea , lose the imports

[post="42040"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



Both of you are completely out of touch with reality. We live in a free market society hence foreign competition is not going anywhere. Why post utter nonsense that will never become reality. The only way GM will survive is to cut cost ( reduce UAW influence ) and build better quality and more desirable products. Unfortunately GM has been lagging on both counts. The generous benefits have got to go. The money saved from reduced benefits should go to building more modern plants and newer more desirable cars.
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Here is the most striking sentence from these 3 stories:

"But the facts are unavoidable: You can now buy every single share of GM stock for a mere $13.5 billion, or about $3.5 billion less than last spring."

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gm11e_20051111.htm
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/gm-bar111e_20051111.htm
http://www.freep.com/money/business/walsh11e_20051111.htm

[post="41839"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



So Controlling interest in Gm for 7 Billion eh? SAIC? Edited by Ghost Dog
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Why? Ford does it (17%-20% market share) with 7 brands.

Ford
Mazda
Mercury
Volvo
Lincoln
Jaguar
Aston Martin

Ford and Chevy can maintain their volume and Dealer network, but like Ford is doing with PAG and has already done with Lincoln-Mercury, GM is doing with Buick-Pontiac-GMC... making the brands consolidate under one rooftop. HUMMER & Saturn don't have large dealership networks so their volume can support the dealers but I have no clue about SAAB.

[post="42017"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Ford has 8. You forgot Range Rover.
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I said it before and I will say it again, I know there are fans of certain models, but GM really needs to do a clean house.

Entry level - Chevy / GMC Merged in.
Mid Level - Buick/Pontiac/saturn merged in.
High end - Cadillac.

GM does not need 6 brands.  They can turn high profits by closing down names and cleaning up the house to where 3 divisions get the proper resources to have updates and change every 3-5 years and keep things fresh and poppin so that buyers keep coming in.

I love the General and all my Vehicles, 1 - 94 suburban, 1- 98 S-10, 1-99 cavalier and 1 2005 CTS for the wife.

My two kids and wife love their cars, but really the market is not what it used to be and what GM really needs is a focused approach in the market.

Yes this means some dealers will have to change or go out of business but that is the reality of the price game.  If a dealer only stays with one brand today, they will not grow.

I for one vote with my money on the General surviving, but still holding and buying more stock as it really is a value right now.  Yet the hard decisions have to be made and not everyone can be happy or will like it but plants need to close, people need to be laid off and divisions closed.

The global economy is here to stay and you have to change with it or be left in the dust.

End Game!  <_<

[post="41974"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



Shutting down Oldsmobile cost GM about $1 Billion and then they got sued by some of their dealers...adding the shutdown costs for multiple brands plus the excess capacity GM has in their current plants due to their drop in market share and their current UAW contracts means they have limited options. Steve Miller over at Delphi has been openly saying he expects GM to file bankruptcy. If the Delphi situation goes badly, it could very likely start the snowball effect for GM...

Olds shutdown cost reference: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7836912/page/2
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I recently read an article in Time Magazine about Apple Computer. Here is an excerpt that I think describes what is really killing GM right now. (Talking about the cool new iPods and iMac G5) That is cool stuff. So, where does it all come from? Ask apple CEO Steve Jobs about it, and he'll tell you an instructive little story. Call it the parable of the concept car. "Here's what you find at a lot of companies," he says, kicking back in a conference room at Apples's gleaming white Silicon Valley headquarters, which looks something like a cross between an Ivy League university and an iPod. "You know how you see a show car, and it's really cool, and then FOUR years later you see the production car and it sucks? And you go, What happened? THey had it! They had it in hte palm of their hands! They grabbed DEFEAT from the jaws of victory! "What happened was the designers came up with this really great idea. Then they take it to the engineers, and the engineers go, 'Nah, we can't do that. That's impossible.' And so it gets alot worse. Then they take it to the manufacturing people and they go, 'We can't build that!' And it gets a lot worse." When Jobs took up his present position at Apple in 1997, that's the situation he found. He and Jonathan Ive, head of design, came up with the original iMac, a candy-colored computer merged with a cathode-ray tube that, at the time, looked like nothing anybody had seen outside of a Jetsons cartoon. "Sure enough," Jobs recalls, "when we took it to the engineers, they said, 'Oh.' And they came up with 38 reasons. And I said, 'No, no, we're doing this.' And they said, 'Well, why?' And I said, 'Because I'm the CEO, and I think it can be done.' And so they kind of begrudgingly did it. But then it was a big hit." Sound familiar? GM is always bringing out kick ass concepts and then blame it on engineering and manufacturing when the junk gets to the street. Look at the Solstice though. They had a beautiful design and everybody loved it. Bob Lutz probably had engineers, accounting and manufacturing say it "Can't be done." I'm sure he said though, "No we're doing this, Make it happen." And look how AMAZING the car is doing. GM's biggest problem isn't healthcare of Toyota. GM's biggest problem is they leadership bends to the will of their subordinates. GM's leadership needs to lead and make things happen. If GM had brought the G6 out looking like the showcar it would be on the frontpage of every mag and probably named Car of the Year. Instead it's a dog with a joke of an interior. Perhaps a bankruptcy and new board would be a good idea?
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I recently read an article in Time Magazine about Apple Computer.  Here is an excerpt that I think describes what is really killing GM right now.

(Talking about the cool new iPods and iMac G5)

That is cool stuff.  So, where does it all come from?

Ask apple CEO Steve Jobs about it, and he'll tell you an instructive little story.  Call it the parable of the concept car.  "Here's what you find at a lot of companies," he says, kicking back in a conference room at Apples's gleaming white Silicon Valley headquarters, which looks something like a cross between an Ivy League university and an iPod.  "You know how you see a show car, and it's really cool, and then FOUR years later you see the production car and it sucks?  And you go, What happened?  THey had it!  They had it in hte palm of their hands! They grabbed DEFEAT from the jaws of victory!

"What happened was the designers came up with this really great idea.  Then they take it to the engineers, and the engineers go, 'Nah, we can't do that. That's impossible.' And so it gets alot worse.  Then they take it to the manufacturing people and they go, 'We can't build that!' And it gets a lot worse."

When Jobs took up his present position at Apple in 1997, that's the situation he found.  He and Jonathan Ive, head of design, came up with the original iMac, a candy-colored computer merged with a cathode-ray tube that, at the time, looked like nothing anybody had seen outside of a Jetsons cartoon.  "Sure enough," Jobs recalls, "when we took it to the engineers, they said, 'Oh.' And they came up with 38 reasons.  And I said, 'No, no, we're doing this.' And they said, 'Well, why?' And I said, 'Because I'm the CEO, and I think it can be done.' And so they kind of begrudgingly did it.  But then it was a big hit."

Sound familiar?  GM is always bringing out kick ass concepts and then blame it on engineering and manufacturing when the junk gets to the street.  Look at the Solstice though.  They had a beautiful design and everybody loved it.  Bob Lutz probably had engineers, accounting and manufacturing say it "Can't be done." I'm sure he said though, "No we're doing this, Make it happen."  And look how AMAZING the car is doing.

GM's biggest problem isn't healthcare of Toyota.  GM's biggest problem is they leadership bends to the will of their subordinates.  GM's leadership needs to lead and make things happen.  If GM had brought the G6 out looking like the showcar it would be on the frontpage of every mag and probably named Car of the Year.  Instead it's a dog with a joke of an interior.  Perhaps a bankruptcy and new board would be a good idea?

[post="42129"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I suppose GM is a bit of a Microsoft right now. The redesigns of their cars are due to neccessity. I wonder if a designer had an empty sketchpad and some markers when designing the interior and exterior of the Escalade. Or did management just tell them, "We need a new Escalade, here's what we have to work with, and make it look like a Caddy."

Judging from Apple, the trick is to be hip AND profitable.
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Apple (being a Mac Mini and Ipod Shuffle owner myself) reminds me of Nissan and now recently Toyota. Nissan was a dog, til the Francais took over. They are coming out with designs, which are almost concept-like, and they're selling them like hotcakes. Toyota is starting to do that now. Like, for example, the FJ-crusiser, the new Tundra pick-up, and probably the new Supra, which is going to be based off the Lexus concept. This is what Ford and GM are missing. Chrysler sort of tried doing that with their Chargers and 300s.
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Apple (being a Mac Mini and Ipod Shuffle owner myself) reminds me of Nissan and now recently Toyota.  Nissan was a dog, til the Francais took over.  They are coming out with designs, which are almost concept-like, and they're selling them like hotcakes.  Toyota is starting to do that now.  Like, for example, the FJ-crusiser, the new Tundra pick-up, and probably the new Supra, which is going to be based off the Lexus concept.  This is what Ford and GM are missing.  Chrysler sort of tried doing that with their Chargers and 300s.

[post="42148"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Apple isn't Japanese. Toyota and Nissan are more like Panasonic, Motorola, or Sanyo, makers of unoriginal, flashy, hi-tech silver plastic things that'll become irrelevant in three years.
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