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gm4life

The big picture...

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Mark Reuss, General Motors and Rear Wheel Drive

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Reading the topic about Mark Ruess I was going to make a response about the upcoming "un-named" wonder known just as the SS. Then I as I got typing my simple response that became a not so simple response but a big concern... If this car actually seeing the light of day. Not that the question put up by someone worrying about the "little issues" getting fixed isn't important it is. (Just not to me!) I am thinking big picture, so here is what I am thinking and actually fear will happen.

If this new SS actually is produced, and sitting on dealer lots, I will be thankfully proven wrong! I just believe this car CAN'T happen. I fear this SS will be shown at the car shows and we will get teased for over a year (more than likely) and as the car is ready for production for 2012 model year, gas shoots up and GM pulls the plug. The fact is the Zeta is due for a MCE for the 2012 model year, (maybe 2011, I forget off the top of my head) the Caprice PPV will be getting that also, along with the 3.6L Direct Injection V6. I trust the MCE will be pretty extensive and solve some of the issues... My main worry isn't getting the small issues fixed like the Nav etc. It is actually getting the car.

Yet another reason I fear it won't make it is the name issue. Caprice will be taken in the form of the LWB Zeta for police/government use. So the Caprice SS is pretty much out as I assume this will be a SWB model. Then comes Impala SS what this car should be called, and leave the Malibu to do Camry and Accord battle. Then I ask how can you call this car the Impala SS when the "other" Impala is a totally different car, FWD and EP II based? Then the idea of calling it just SS arises like the 2003 red show car, but that is confusing and creates many problems too. So what historic names are you left with, that will do this car proud? Chevelle and sorry Chevelle would work on a smaller RWD but no fullsize RWD performance sedan. So what will they name it? I think that is a HUGE issue. In my heart I would love to see this as the Impala SS, but really doubt it. So to recap thus far we have gas prices, the name and then all the unknown issues that could come along... Then there is CAFE and that will be last blow to this car and will kill it. Sorry. I am in show me mode with anything RWD from GM.

I am truly more worried about seeing the car period, especially sitting on the showroom floor than I am about the little issues, but rest assured if we actually get this un-named wonder it will be a bloodly miracle and won't give a $h! about a Nav or revised seats, etc. Or any other small bull$h!. Seriously, I am a big picture person, and might just send a real formal letter to GM over my X-Mas break. (The aftermarket can fix all that little $h!, but not build me an entire RWD V8 Zeta based high performance full size roomy four door at a price I can afford.) :2cents:

This is why I am not holding my breath even with Mark making his way up the ranks, and Bob back in charge of product. This is all good and helps me see the light... But for every Mark Reuss, Bob Lutz and Ed Welburn there are five Roger Smith era bean counters at GM. How is that for faith?

The thing that ticks me off the most is I know GM can do it. I know they can build world class cars, the new LaX, Enclave, G8, Camaro, CTS, SRX, Equinox, and Malibu are all proof! So take the quality interiors, fit and finish, good styling and plug that into a V8 powered RWD four door sedan like the G8 and actually sell it. The G8 to me is the ultimate tease to show just what GM can do. I was not in the market for a car while the G8 is/was out, nor did I have the coin. Had timing been different I would have one next to my SLE. So thus I must wait and get teased with spy photos, show cars and all the bull$h! and rumors for the next 2 years over a car we should have right now called the G8. Seems kind of crazy doesn't it?

Then GM dumps gasoline on the fire and displays a lovely Caprice PPV for the POLICE only. A car that effectively meets all my wants/dreams and tells me I can't have one? I have come to find out (almost positive) I can get one if I play my cards right which is all well and good but still don't know if I really want a "cop car". Even if this car comes especially if it is SWB I might just get an L76 Caprice to be different and for the extra room, but really would rather they just never taken away the car that did all of this so well. The G8. GM want to give me a Christmas gift, actually a miracle, build this car. Don't just take about it, tease us with show cars and spy photos and then pull the plug. Actually follow through! Grow a sack and get it done, you have no good reason why you can't do it... So prove to us and yourselves you have the balls to build a world class RWD four door sedan with a real V8. The rest of the world, cars lovers and some of your most loyal fans/owners are waiting.

Edited by gm4life
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This is why I am not holding my breath even with Mark making his way up the ranks, and Bob back in charge of product. This is all good and helps me see the light... But for every Mark Reuss, Bob Lutz and Ed Welburn there are five Roger Smith era bean counters at GM. How is that for faith?

I've bookmarked the topic where Reuss drops hints about the Z28, and such. When all this RWD stuff goes on the rocks again, and people start posting about how much they don't like Reuss, I'm going to paste a link to it because I know they'll be the same people who were rejoicing the man's placement. People did it to Fritz, and I'm sure it'll happen to Reuss. Hopefully, it won't.

The thing that ticks me off the most is I know GM can do it. I know they can build world class cars, the new LaX, Enclave, G8, Camaro, CTS, SRX, Equinox, and Malibu are all proof! So take the quality interiors, fit and finish, good styling and plug that into a V8 powered RWD four door sedan like the G8 and actually sell it. The G8 to me is the ultimate tease to show just what GM can do. I was not in the market for a car while the G8 is/was out, nor did I have the coin. Had timing been different I would have one next to my SLE. So thus I must wait and get teased with spy photos, show cars and all the bull$h! and rumors for the next 2 years over a car we should have right now called the G8. Seems kind of crazy doesn't it?

GM did that with the G8. The quality was fantastic, the styling was nice and it had a V8. However, not only a few months ago up my way, they were giving 6.5K cash on the hood of a G8 GT. Now, you can still nab a G8 GT for $4500 off.

GM built a fantastic car for enthusiasts, and it didn't exactly turn out too well. I'd rather GM spend their time making class beating family sedans, and hauler's instead of looking at another large foray into 'for-the-masses' RWD that isn't a halo car like the Camaro.

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Just sit tight and keep the faith.

PCS has hinted that Zeta is not all that dead, and regardless of your personal feelings for him, he has a history of being right. I think we'll see the Holden Zetas here in some form, but probably not immediately. Complicating the naming issue is that Oshawa owns the rights to the Impala name - any car called Impala must be made there. here are two factoids for you - the W-body Impala is supposed to die in 2012, and the Holden Zetas are scheduled for a redo in 2013, either on the current North American version of Zeta (Camaro), or a lighter successor to Zeta. Not sure yet, rumors are conflicting. Anyway, I could see Oshawa being earmarked for production of the Holden Zetas (including a Commodore-based Impala), once this happens. Until then, we're likely to get low-volume imports from Australia like the Caprice PPV, or maybe a limited run of Utes or Park Avenues.

As for the gas price issue, look up the MPG figures for the V6 Malibu and the V6 G8 - they are virtually identical despite the Zeta being heavier. There are technologies in the GM parts bin to help the Zetas become more efficient right now, and those now in charge are well aware of that. When gas prices shot up in Australia, Reuss himself stated that Holden was working on diesel and hybrid Commodores to increase their gas mileage.

Calm down, let GM get its ducks in a row, and se what happens. A lot of us might end up very happy.

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Just sit tight and keep the faith.

PCS has hinted that Zeta is not all that dead, and regardless of your personal feelings for him, he has a history of being right.

Isn't the word irregardless? :smilewide:

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Just sit tight and keep the faith.

PCS has hinted that Zeta is not all that dead, and regardless of your personal feelings for him, he has a history of being right. I think we'll see the Holden Zetas here in some form, but probably not immediately. Complicating the naming issue is that Oshawa owns the rights to the Impala name - any car called Impala must be made there. here are two factoids for you - the W-body Impala is supposed to die in 2012, and the Holden Zetas are scheduled for a redo in 2013, either on the current North American version of Zeta (Camaro), or a lighter successor to Zeta. Not sure yet, rumors are conflicting. Anyway, I could see Oshawa being earmarked for production of the Holden Zetas (including a Commodore-based Impala), once this happens. Until then, we're likely to get low-volume imports from Australia like the Caprice PPV, or maybe a limited run of Utes or Park Avenues.

As for the gas price issue, look up the MPG figures for the V6 Malibu and the V6 G8 - they are virtually identical despite the Zeta being heavier. There are technologies in the GM parts bin to help the Zetas become more efficient right now, and those now in charge are well aware of that. When gas prices shot up in Australia, Reuss himself stated that Holden was working on diesel and hybrid Commodores to increase their gas mileage.

Calm down, let GM get its ducks in a row, and se what happens. A lot of us might end up very happy.

I understand where you are coming from and PCS has a history of being right. I totally agree. I actually respect PCS he is a bold guy, and I respect him for that and that is not to say I don't disagree with him sometimes. I am trying to keep the faith but as Camino has said he is in show-me model, and I think that is the place I am going to be as well. The new Camaro was a car I hoped would be so right and it had the spirit, styling, motor, and everything right, just the interior is too small. I don't care about the materials inside not being super soft or fancy but with a sunroof I knock my head sitting in one and I am NOT TALL. I love the car so badly but the it is lacking the extra space I really was hoping it would have. Not to say I wouldn't get one but it is factor in my decision. So that leaves the Caprice PPV, and I certainly hope PCS is right about the Zeta. I want a RWD Impala so bad, with LS, LT, LTZ and SS trim levels a few different motors both six and eight cylinders but can't see it happening. (Because we are getting a FWD EP II based Impala!) We have all been told about great things to come from GM and then only to get them canceled...

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Isn't the word irregardless? :smilewide:

Look who shows up... PCS wanna give me some inside ball? I'll take whatever you can give me... I might just be that guy who ends up down at my dealer trying to figure out a way to get a Caprice PPV. :smilewide:

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Look who shows up... PCS wanna give me some inside ball? I'll take whatever you can give me... I might just be that guy who ends up down at my dealer trying to figure out a way to get a Caprice PPV. :smilewide:

Caprice PPV? Why would you want to do all that work, when I'm sure there will be an easier way to get where you need to be in the near future ... :smilewide:

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I've bookmarked the topic where Reuss drops hints about the Z28, and such. When all this RWD stuff goes on the rocks again, and people start posting about how much they don't like Reuss, I'm going to paste a link to it because I know they'll be the same people who were rejoicing the man's placement. People did it to Fritz, and I'm sure it'll happen to Reuss. Hopefully, it won't.

GM did that with the G8. The quality was fantastic, the styling was nice and it had a V8. However, not only a few months ago up my way, they were giving 6.5K cash on the hood of a G8 GT. Now, you can still nab a G8 GT for $4500 off.

GM built a fantastic car for enthusiasts, and it didn't exactly turn out too well. I'd rather GM spend their time making class beating family sedans, and hauler's instead of looking at another large foray into 'for-the-masses' RWD that isn't a halo car like the Camaro.

Please don't go on about how it didn't turn out to well. The car was poorly marketed at best, and many other mistakes were made like with the GTO. Look at how well the Camaro is doing, oh wait that is car that has been marketed right. There are more people around like me than you think. I can agree the car was fantastic, but I still can't swing one, not now. It is bad timing for the me, the prices are great no doubt, but I still can't do it.

As for Mark I will support him if he does what he needs to do, which is world class FWD and RWD cars. So if he misses the RWD portion, yes he will loose my support. That is why I am holding my breath. GM might just get one hell of a letter from me over Christmas break, and trust me it won't be read and nor will it be all sunshine and happiness. I am not asking for a full RWD line-up but a few affordable RWD cars would be nice and just what the doctor ordered.

Edited by gm4life
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Caprice PPV? Why would you want to do all that work, when I'm sure there will be an easier way to get where you need to be in the near future ... :smilewide:

Well that is what I hope, but trust me I still could do it, if GM doesn't get its $h! together. Even if it comes and it is SWB model like the G8 I still might find a way to get a Caprice because ever since I saw the Park Ave for China I was in love. God I do hope your right, can you tell us will we be seeing this car on the show circut soon?

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Well that is what I hope, but trust me I still could do it, if GM doesn't get its $h! together. Even if it comes and it is SWB model like the G8 I still might find a way to get a Caprice because ever since I saw the Park Ave for China I was in love. God I do hope your right, can you tell us will we be seeing this car on the show circut soon?

I said too much already, have faith, don't be a Doubting Thomas ... :smilewide:

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Having just comke back from Dave Gill Chevrolet where I got to check out (but didn't test drive) a new Camaro and Malibu LTZ first hand...it is getting easier to ahve faith in GM all of the time.

Chris

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I said too much already, have faith, don't be a Doubting Thomas ... :smilewide:

Well thank you opening your mouth. It would be the best Christmas gift of all if your are right and we get this SS. Thanks for the encouragement but depending upon what this car turns out to be (SWB or LWB) and or cost, I still wouldn't rule out me finding a way to slip a PPV out the back door. (I am a sucker for steel wheels!) Certainly we don't want you in any trouble with your employer!

Edited by gm4life
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Having just comke back from Dave Gill Chevrolet where I got to check out (but didn't test drive) a new Camaro and Malibu LTZ first hand...it is getting easier to ahve faith in GM all of the time.

Chris

I know that is what irks me, they can do it. Just do it with a car that I want a fullsize V8 powered RWD car that I can fit in without my head hitting. (Like the Camaro with a sunroof! It is the only thing *slightly cramped interior* besides the stupid expensive tires, I don't like about that car!)

Edited by gm4life
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Well thank you opening your mouth. It would be the best Christmas gift of all if your are right and we get this SS. Thanks for the encouragement but depending upon what this car turns out to be (SWB or LWB) and or cost, I still wouldn't rule out me finding a way to slip a PPV out the back door. (I am a sucker for steel wheels!) Certainly we don't want you in any trouble with your employeer!

Have you ever seen me get in trouble with my employer? GM and I, we are one ... :smilewide:

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Have you ever seen me get in trouble with my employer? GM and I, we are one ... :smilewide:

No, but I am still glad you open your mouth from time to time around here. Even if I like it or not you turn out to be right! On a thing like this I can only hope your right again and we see it soon! (Well yesterday would have been better!) No doubt your one of a kind and were glad you hang around, even if we don't always see eye to eye. :thumbsup:

Edited by gm4life
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GM4life...yeah the tires are mucho dinero, but what a car. The one I looked at today was that metallic orange, am RS V6 autotrajic. SWEET!

Even better, while I was sitting in the Malibu, thinking about how cool it would be to own...I started listening to the deals being done around me. 3...yes three...deals at the same time people trading Toyota for GM. Corolla for a Cobalt, Camry for a Malibu, and a Tundra for a Silverado.

THAT made my day...esp. listening to the couple trading the Tundra tell the salesperson what a crappy truck it was compared to their previous Silverado.

Sales guy was good though because the Tundra couple almost walked to buy a Wrangler...but he kept them in the dealership and sold the Silverado.

Chris

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GM4life...yeah the tires are mucho dinero, but what a car. The one I looked at today was that metallic orange, am RS V6 autotrajic. SWEET!

Even better, while I was sitting in the Malibu, thinking about how cool it would be to own...I started listening to the deals being done around me. 3...yes three...deals at the same time people trading Toyota for GM. Corolla for a Cobalt, Camry for a Malibu, and a Tundra for a Silverado.

THAT made my day...esp. listening to the couple trading the Tundra tell the salesperson what a crappy truck it was compared to their previous Silverado.

Sales guy was good though because the Tundra couple almost walked to buy a Wrangler...but he kept them in the dealership and sold the Silverado.

Chris

All great news! I agree with all the choices but the Corolla for a Cobalt? I would have suffered with the $h!-box another few months and waited for a Cruze.

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...and let me add sorry for going off topic...but right now I've got more faith in GM than I've had in twenty years.

Chris

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...and let me add sorry for going off topic...but right now I've got more faith in GM than I've had in twenty years.

Chris

God I hope your right. I have faith in them too, just not in affordable RWD V8 powered cars. A void they had filled until this April, when Pontiac got the pink slip. 66 don't worry about getting off topic we all do. :pbjtime:

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Isn't the word irregardless? :smilewide:

Irregardless is a form that many people mistakenly believe to be a correct usage in formal style but that in fact has no legitimate antecedents in either standard or nonstandard varieties.

I also distinctly remember my Technical Writing professor going on a ten minute dissertation on how expressions like "irregardless" and "free gift" were terrible misuses of the English language.

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I also distinctly remember my Technical Writing professor going on a ten minute dissertation on how expressions like "irregardless" and "free gift" were terrible misuses of the English language.

I know, you talked about this before, when I saw regardless, I couldn't resist! It's the devil in me ... :smilewide:

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i really am fine with GM delaying the next consumer Zeta until 2012 or whatever until the supposed future refinements are taken care of.

that being, a little less weight, continuing to upgrade the engines and trannies, I would even like to see some interior refinement and North Americanization (i.e. silly window switches on the console instead of the doors, poor cupholder integration, cheap center stack with useless display up top, etc.).

AWD would also be on my wish list as I would also think many of the dealers would scream out loud for it as an option.

in the meantime, those that REALLY badly want a caprice will find a way to get one. and there is likely going to be a few used g8's to pick from as well.

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