Oh Sweetness

[ocnblu]

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I'll always remember...

[Robert Hall]

Sweet '73...in Italy?

[balthazar]

It's a 2-dr hardtop.... prolly gots a PMD 350 in it...... I'm out.

There's not even an arrowhead on the back of it.

Edited March 27, 2011 by balthazar

[daves87rs]

Still like it anyways....

[smk4565]

The 1970s might have been the worst decade for cars.

[§carlet §wordfish]

Got an interior like a leisure suit... (I mean that in a nice way).

[Camino LS6]

The 1970s might have been the worst decade for cars.

Are you nuts?

There is a huge difference between early 70s and late 70s.

Even in the latter half of the decade there are real gems.

[smk4565]

The 1970s might have been the worst decade for cars.

Are you nuts?

There is a huge difference between early 70s and late 70s.

Even in the latter half of the decade there are real gems.

The 80s were pretty bad for cars also, 1940s because of the war, so maybe the 40's was the worst, but I'd put the 70s #2. The 80s at least had some supercars and variety. 70s cars were mostly bland and zapped of power once catalytic converters were put in. The 30's, 50's, and 60's had good styling.

[Camino LS6]

Ugh, the 80s were a disaster.

1970 is arguably the peak, but lots of great stuff came in the years to follow.

[cletus8269]

awesome cars from mid to late 70's are there... you just have to actually look for them

[balthazar]

The intermediates often held their own, but a lot of the full-size cars were on the downside of their peak in just about every criteria of comparison.

[ocnblu]

It's a 2-dr hardtop.... prolly gots a PMD 350 in it...... I'm out.

There's not even an arrowhead on the back of it.

I'm guessing more likely a 400 2 bbl, like mine had. '73 is my year. I'd definitely take a green over green coupe with tin top, even though mine was white over green with green interior, 4-door hdtp.

[Drew Dowdell]

Pontiac has never really been my thing, but it's right around this year where they really lose me and I forget about them until about 1992.

[balthazar]

It's a 2-dr hardtop.... prolly gots a PMD 350 in it...... I'm out.

There's not even an arrowhead on the back of it.

I'm guessing more likely a 400 2 bbl, like mine had. '73 is my year. I'd definitely take a green over green coupe with tin top, even though mine was white over green with green interior, 4-door hdtp.

I looked into this- surprisingly, tho PMD had the 350 standard in the Cat starting in '70, for '72 PMD dropped the 350 from the Cat. I assume '73 is the same- smogged 350 must've not provided enough grunt by then.

The '70-71 Cats got '400' callouts when so equipped. Dad had a '70 400-2 Cat.

So you're right: 400-2, 400-4 or 455-4 were the choices for this one.

[cletus8269]

friend in high school drove a 455 bonne. cant remember what year. want to say 70-73 maybe 74

Edited March 27, 2011 by cletus8269

[Camino LS6]

Pontiac held onto big inch grunt while the rest of GM went to corporate 350s and 305s. This is largely why seventies T/As are so collectible today.

[balthazar]

^ That, and they're pretty cool overall.

I'm a full-size car guy, but sitting in/checking out a '73 T/A for about 20 minutes about 5 years ago, and I saw the appeal, where I never did before.

When I decide 'I could own one of these'; it has swaying power.

Of course I agree WRT the PMD engines: Pontiac kept it's performance heritage alive thru the '70s, where Chevy dropped the Z28 for 2 years plus the Camaro big blocks.

Edited March 27, 2011 by balthazar

[Croc]

The 1970s might have been the worst decade for cars.

Worst in terms of performance? Build quality? Eh.....in some ways, but the 80s were pretty bad too, sad to say.

[Camino LS6]

The 80s were the darkest decade, but some gems still persisted.

Most stuff was just pure crap, however.

[ocnblu]

I vote 80's, too. I was there. "Gutless engines" "unintelligible Sci-Fi dash controls" and "downsized beyond reason" are three phrases that readily come to mind. Except for the Buick Grand National. One shining black star in an otherwise dark night.

[balthazar]

I'm still waiting for the gas turbine production car!!

[§carlet §wordfish]

I still can't understand why anyone thought a turbine would make a good car engine.

[balthazar]

Vastly fewer parts, silky-smooth operation, full TRQ at 0 RPM, ability to burn just about any combustible fuel.

That enough to start you off ?

[Robert Hall]

The '60s-70s are my favorite decades of vintage American cars---love the lower, longer, wider styling trends and cleaner, smoother designs from the mid '60s to early 70s.. never really got into the '50s or older cars. I still like many cars from the '80s, that's what I grew up around and first drove..

[balthazar]

So you're saying you don't like the Firebird II ('56), correct?

Cause it's pretty clean & smooth.....

[Robert Hall]

So you're saying you don't like the Firebird II ('56), correct?

Cause it's pretty clean & smooth.....

That thing is hideous, IMO...too many '50s designs are overwrought..now cars like the '53-54 Studebaker coupe, '56 Chrysler 300, '56 Lincoln MK II and '55-56 T-Bird I can appreciate...I like the look of a few finny cars, but just really never got into that era..

Anywhoo, back to the original thread, I really like the styling of the '71-73 B-body sport coupes..

Edited March 29, 2011 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

Thought you'd say that, but aside from the turbine inlets & the rear outboard fuel tanks, the car couldn't be any cleaner. 'course; you take those off and the car starts to get boring to look at.

Only chrome/trim is the inlets, the tips of the tanks & thin moldings around the glass. There's not even any character lines aside from the wheel openings.

[§carlet §wordfish]

Vastly fewer parts, silky-smooth operation, full TRQ at 0 RPM, ability to burn just about any combustible fuel.

That enough to start you off ?

Loud, extreme exhaust heat, gluttonous fuel economy...

For a high-performance car I guess it makes sense. Not something I'd want as a daily driver though.

[balthazar]

The exhaust heat thing was addressed early on with regenerators, IIRC :

'Asphalt melting' is an urban myth.

No doubt a modern version could be made pretty quiet, too.

It's the original 'alternate fuel' vehicle.

Edited March 29, 2011 by balthazar

[SAmadei]

It's the original 'alternate fuel' vehicle.

And I still contend they are a good future candidate as an engine for extended range electric cars, as they are so much more efficient than conventional internal combustion engines.

[smk4565]

The 1950s is hard to beat.

Jaguar XK140

original Corvette

Mercedes 300SL Gullwing

1957 Cadillac Eldordo

Aston Martin DB4

Rolls Royce Phantom V

But the 1960s has the DB5 and E-type Jag, which could be the 2 best looking cars of all time.

[balthazar]

DB4/5 aren't bad, but they pale next to the '56-57 Corvette for cohesiveness, IMO.

'56-58 300s are fairly awesome, as are the standard '56 Cadillacs, Cripes; I could list dozens upon dozens here.

e-type jag looks good from above, but has issues, too. Lower body somehow looks unfinished- the tires are majorly exposed.

Phantom V was 15 years outdated when it debuted. Not most people's idea of a great design.

[ponchoman49]

There were plenty of good cars in the 70's and GM made many of them. The intermediate A body and full size B/C body cars come to mind. F-bodies were still quite good performers with the 350/400 size engines. Most divisions still used there own unique engines and power upgrades were so easy to realize that even the most novice backyard mechanic could hop up his small block Chevy, Ford, Pontiac etc. Heck I got more power out of many of my later 70's Olds 260 and Pontiac 301 V8's just by removing the silly spark timing delay, removing the ultra restrictive bead cat converters, advancing the timing and waking up the Quadrajet carbs on some. The 80's IMO were much worse, especially for GM. Gone were big inch V8 engines. In were diesels in 85 HP and 105 HP V6 and V8 guise. 301 turbos replaced cubic inch 400's and 4 speed sticks. Cadillac began experimenting on there smaller 368 V8 and produced the turd 8-6-4 and then when that failed the powerhouse 125 HP HT 4100 power system which they never actually published any power or torque figures in there 1982 brochure because they were embarrassed to tears that there new wonder V8 made the same HP and 20 LESS LB. FT. of torque than Buicks simpler and far more reliable 4.1 liter 4 BBL carbed V6. The new downsized Camaros and Firebirds made due with 145 and 165 HP Chevy gutless 305 V8's and had 92 Hp tech 4 as base fare. Buicks Regal made due with only gas fired 110/125 HP 3.8 and 4.1 V6's up to 1984 and then only had the 110 HP engine for 1985 unless you sprung for the much pricier turbo versions which by 1986 became one of GM few bright star examples of real performance. Worse things were yet to come. GM in there infinite wisdom decided to turn literally 90% of there car line into generic FWD appliances with smaller V6's and tech 4's. By 1986 all but the Caprice B-body and the wagons from Olds, Poncho and Buick were left as everything else went into much smaller FWD form including the Deville and Fleetwood. Thankfully Caddy kept the RWD version around until well into the 90's. Too bad they saddled it with first the HT 4100 and then the weak 140 HP Olds 307. The G-bodies went next and were replaced by the W-bodies which didn't sell nearly as well until GM made them into sedans by 1990. A few interesting pieces made it out of the General in the 80's. The 86-87 GN was one. The newer port injected 350 Vettes and F-bodies were noteworthy even if there build quality and interiors weren't. The Fiero was a good idea that didn't get executed properly until it's last couple of years. The A-body Cieras/Centurys etc got much better later into the 80's with the improved second gen engines and made good bread and butter sedans for everyday folk but not nearly as advanced as the 1986 Taurus/Sables twins. More downers were the 1986 downsized Eldorado/Toronado and Riviera which were so small and similar to the N-body Grand Am/ Calais and Skylark that GM sent them back to the oven for some last minute late 80's tweaks that make them longer, better looking and more powerful engines. Pontiac made due without a full size car for model years 82 and 83 when there largest car was the G-body Bonneville and for 1982 only V6 gas engines were offered. Thankfully they came to there senses in 1984 and re-instated a B-body in the form of the Parisienne. Buick of course dropped there one and only remaining V8, the 350 4 BBL X motor in 1980 and Pontiac followed suite in 1981 which left so called Corporate V8's of smaller displacement after that. Another somewhat bright spot was the 180 HP Monte SS and Olds Hurst/442 coupes which gave the G-bodies a bit of dash. The Star Trek electronic dashes and talking voices were also silly.

Edited September 15, 2011 by ponchoman49

[daves87rs]

awesome cars from mid to late 70's are there... you just have to actually look for them

+1

[A Horse With No Name]

Ugh, the 80s were a disaster.

1970 is arguably the peak, but lots of great stuff came in the years to follow.

Not entirely...the Mopar small 2.2 Turbo stuff was cool, we had the beginning of the modern vette, the foxbody mustang was cool, the 911 had a good decade, the Grand National, you could still buy an RWD cutty or El Camino ( know, you've probably forgotten what those were)...RX-7, Supra was still a decent car, Celica and Corolla were still RWD and cool, the Honda stuff was still small and fun to drive, the SUV craze hadn't hit, we still had full size wagons, we brought back convertibles, Used muscle cars were on car lots everywhere cheap, and...more if you think about it.

It was a disaster in a lot of ways but there were bright spots.

[SAmadei]

Not entirely...the Mopar small 2.2 Turbo stuff was cool,

Meh.

we had the beginning of the modern vette, the foxbody mustang was cool, the 911 had a good decade,

The new Vette was getting visually stale by 1986... most Fox Mustangs were not very cool off the showroom floor... How good was the 5.0 when people were drooling at the SVO turbocharged 4 popper?... the '80s 911 simply had more plastic cladding than the '70s one. But it was getting faster. But to some of us, it still looked like a Beetle.

the Grand National, you could still buy an RWD cutty or El Camino ( know, you've probably forgotten what those were)..

GN and GNX were virtually unobtainium. The rest of the RWD A/G bodies were stifled by 305s and 307s, which got no economy boost relative to the 350. Had GM just put Chevy 350s in all this stuff, the '80s would have sucked less. You could improve the 305s and 307s by disabling some of the emissions junk, but it wasn't much.

.RX-7, Supra was still a decent car, Celica and Corolla were still RWD and cool, the Honda stuff was still small and fun to drive,

All except the Supra were too small to have the slightest interest. The Supra had size, but soon was fatter than the Camaros and Firebirds it was competing with.

the SUV craze hadn't hit, we still had full size wagons, we brought back convertibles, Used muscle cars were on car lots everywhere cheap, and...more if you think about it.

SUV craze hadn't hit, but the Minivans one did. Sure, we had wagons, but they suffered from the same problems as the A/G bodies... 307s. The wagon really didn't come back until the 350 was put back in it, by then it was the eve of the '90s and the rare wagon was grossly outdated. I feel the '90s B-bods would have been received better (since they aged VERY well) had GM designed an styling step between the Boxys and the Bubbles.

The fact that muscle cars were cheap meant that people burned through them faster. The unleaded gas ruined the heads faster. Movie companies crashed them faster. This is why 30 years later, original parts have become very hard to find... therefore the '80s sucked, car-wise.

[A Horse With No Name]

The 1950s is hard to beat.

Jaguar XK140

original Corvette

Mercedes 300SL Gullwing

1957 Cadillac Eldordo

Aston Martin DB4

Rolls Royce Phantom V

But the 1960s has the DB5 and E-type Jag, which could be the 2 best looking cars of all time.

Jag Xk140 FTW!

And agree on the E type...