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ATS-V+ Model to feature LS7 V8


cp-the-nerd

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http://wot.motortrend.com/1505_cadillac_ats_v_to_feature_ls7_power.html

 

In a shocking development, GM is not only developing an ATS-V+ model, but they're shoehorning the LS7 V8 under the hood with your choice of an 8-speed automatic or 7-speed manual. Both are firsts for LS7 application.

 

This announcement pleases me greatly. <--Vast understatement. I peed a little.

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I really thought this news would have blown up across the automotive world this morning, but it's not reported anywhere else yet and people aren't talking about it. I am utterly elated that they're 1) keeping the 7.0L/427 ci N/A engine alive despite all the fuel economy regulations and 2) they're being so creative and awesome with ATS development.

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I really thought this news would have blown up across the automotive world this morning, but it's not reported anywhere else yet and people aren't talking about it. I am utterly elated that they're 1) keeping the 7.0L/427 ci N/A engine alive despite all the fuel economy regulations and 2) they're being so creative and awesome with ATS development.

 

 

 

As I said in the ATS-V Review thread.. I am seriously doubting this will happen for several reasons. 

 

1) The LS7 will be a crate motor, but I doubt that GM wants to hand-build it for any more than special buyers who want to pony up that cash.

 

2) Cadillac wants its own engines.. hence the development and seemingly dive deeper into Twin Turbos

 

3) To the point above.. because Cadillac is trying to build numbers in other markets, particularly China, Europe and S.Amer... displacement will matter in pricing/penalties. I expect the 6.2L LT4 to also be a short lived product of at most, an engine to only be for this generation of CTS.. which is only 3 years away from a new model altogether

 

4) Only 500HP and 481 lbs-ft of bump. In truth.. they could simply turn up the boost on the LF4 and get 500HP and certainly more torque. Think about it... the TTV6 is only.. and I said ONLY 36 HP away for that LS7's numbers. Boost, and a less restrictive exhaust and U are there with minimal investment

5) Cadillac needs a more fleshed out line for the ATS to move product to the mainstream.. a VSport with a detuned LF3 making 360-380HP would make more sense

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Logic be damned! I LOVE that engine.

 

 

 

I love it too, but the fact of the matter is that I love Cadillac more.. and they need their independence, not to mention a weeee bit of logic MORE. Putting up a bunch of non-obtainable super-cars is not gonna sell cars as much as putting up a bunch of consumer focused ones will. 

 

Instead of ATS/C, ATS/C-V, ATS/C-V+.. there should be money focused on ATS/C 2.5 - 3.6L, ATS Wagon, ATS Convertible, ATS VSport, and certainly XT3, XT5, XT6, XT7, and CT7 and 8. CTS needs more variations. Where is a small sport roadster? They could do all of these things and not waste resources on a ATS-V+.

 

Tell U the truth, I think it is absolutely POINTLESS until they solidify the line-up. They have the ATS and CTS-V. CT6 isn't supposed to get a V-Series, but the way it looks the 3.0L will be a screamer by default, I'm betting good money that we will see 0-60 times in the 4.0-4.3 second range with that (Keep in mind that the AWD 4400lb XTS-VSport with less torque is pulling in at 4.9). The Top of the line VSport (where it is supposed to stop) will be getting the TT V8, with a possible 500HP. 

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Motor Trend has been wrong before.

 

Cadillac should be sure to pump up their available crossovers to sell in bunches to enable them the cash to make cars like the ATS-V+.  I am sick of seeing the roads full of Audi Q's and Merc and BMW bim and buffy machines that pad their bottom lines to allow them to spend so much money making cool sedans and coupes.

Edited by regfootball
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Well it's a great development, but I expect the ATS-V+ if anything to be what the Centennial Edition Package was for the Z06. For one year only and perhaps ditching some niceties like rear seats and other weight-saving measures.

 

But before any of that can come to fruition, they need to flesh out their lineup. Enough VSports and VSeries. Now it's time for the meat and potatoes. 

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When I first read this I was pretty stoked. Actually, I still am stoked. I don't see it as a simple A+B=C scenario, though:

-the LS7 is a hand-built engine, and always has been. Therefore I don't foresee build and sales volumes becoming an issue.

-I would be a bit surprised if was an actual LS engine. The reasoning behind not doing a 7L LT block was supposedly the inability for the cylinder deactivation to work well with 7000-plus RPM valvetrain components. They didn't say a thing about issues with DI, though.

-GM is a big outfit. Doing software interfaces for 8L90 and 7-speed manual transmissions should be fairly straightforward.

-I agree that Cadillac is going for greater independence from the rest of GM, and this is a good thing. However, a hand-built, dry-sump engine has that certain snob appeal. The sound it makes is the capper.

-and lastly, a point that kinda shoots down my last one but is too awesome to ignore: this engine in an Alpha Camaro is a bona-fide Shelby GT350 killer.

A bit off-topic, but thanks for all the friend invites I've gotten. If I don't return them right away it's nothing personal: I'm pretty busy with work right now and I really haven't explored this place's capabilities too much yet. I'll get around to it, I promise *L*

Edited by El Kabong
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When I first read this I was pretty stoked. Actually, I still am stoked. I don't see it as a simple A+B=C scenario, though:

-the LS7 is a hand-built engine, and always has been. Therefore I don't foresee build and sales volumes becoming an issue.

-I would be a bit surprised if was an actual LS engine. The reasoning behind not doing a 7L LT block was supposedly the inability for the cylinder deactivation to work well with 7000-plus RPM valvetrain components. They didn't say a thing about issues with DI, though.

-GM is a big outfit. Doing software interfaces for 8L90 and 7-speed manual transmissions should be fairly straightforward.

-I agree that Cadillac is going for greater independence from the rest of GM, and this is a good thing. However, a hand-built, dry-sump engine has that certain snob appeal. The sound it makes is the capper.

-and lastly, a point that kinda shoots down my last one but is too awesome to ignore: this engine in an Alpha Camaro is a bona-fide Shelby GT350 killer.

Your points are great except the last one.

 

Besides that fact that yes, your speculation has been very good for a good while, I'd be wary of speculating the performance of the GT350 when we've heard tidbits here and there. The Z28 itself was a surprising debut for the Zeta Camaro. I think it'll be an epic potential match-up, but I'm not leaning on either side yet.

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I'm pretty comfortable saying a lightly-freshened 7L engine combined with a handling package on an Alpha chassis will bloody the Shelby's nose. And I'm on record as saying I love the Shelby.

It makes little sense for GM to go through the hoops they went through to make their cars lighter if they totally forego the advantages that light weight gives them. I like the LT4 a lot, but there is a time and a place for something that is a bit lighter and high-strung.

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I'm pretty comfortable saying a lightly-freshened 7L engine combined with a handling package on an Alpha chassis will bloody the Shelby's nose. And I'm on record as saying I love the Shelby.

It makes little sense for GM to go through the hoops they went through to make their cars lighter if they totally forego the advantages that light weight gives them. I like the LT4 a lot, but there is a time and a place for something that is a bit lighter and high-strung.

You know me, I have to see it to believe it.

 

I'm going with your gut, but damn does FPC and high redlines leave me with a bit of opening for the Shelby.

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Well...I WANT it to happen...

 

But Casa also makes me want it to NOT happen...

Because of what he said...based on what Johan wants of Cadillac...

Johan wants Cadillac to be independent...with their own engines...and this is a PURE CHEVROLET engine...

 

Way to go Casa...be a kill joy for me! :angry:

 

Sometimes Casa, you are way too logical...leave us have some dream time,  will ya?...

 

I will retract from what I said in the other ATS thread and go with what Casa said...no...I dont think Johan will do this one...but maybe Johan has another crazy engine lined up...one that is a Cadillac...and I did read that Cadillac will be pumping out its own engines very shortly...

Edited by oldshurst442
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Well, if it is indeed a test mule of some sorts...would not that mean that the LS7 will make it to a product model of some sorts? :scratchchin:

 

Things that make you go HMMMMM  just the same...

Not necessarily, I have seen plenty of test mules where they stretched out the fenders to support a drive train truly meant for some other product but they wanted to throw off the Photo Hounds. This could be just such a test mule. Something for the CTS but they wanted to hide it so left off inner wheel well covers to test a drive train and in this case it could be the LS7 system for a new CTS-V Coupe maybe.

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Well, if it is indeed a test mule of some sorts...would not that mean that the LS7 will make it to a product model of some sorts? :scratchchin:

 

Things that make you go HMMMMM  just the same...

Not necessarily, I have seen plenty of test mules where they stretched out the fenders to support a drive train truly meant for some other product but they wanted to throw off the Photo Hounds. This could be just such a test mule. Something for the CTS but they wanted to hide it so left off inner wheel well covers to test a drive train and in this case it could be the LS7 system for a new CTS-V Coupe maybe.

 

yes...exactly...a product model of some sorts..."not necessarily an ATS" is what I should have continued on to say.

But yeah...it seems like the LS7 might live on...

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Well, if it is indeed a test mule of some sorts...would not that mean that the LS7 will make it to a product model of some sorts? :scratchchin:

 

Things that make you go HMMMMM  just the same...

Not necessarily, I have seen plenty of test mules where they stretched out the fenders to support a drive train truly meant for some other product but they wanted to throw off the Photo Hounds. This could be just such a test mule. Something for the CTS but they wanted to hide it so left off inner wheel well covers to test a drive train and in this case it could be the LS7 system for a new CTS-V Coupe maybe.

 

yes...exactly...a product model of some sorts..."not necessarily an ATS" is what I should have continued on to say.

But yeah...it seems like the LS7 might live on...

 

 

If it was an LS7

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sounds like a test mule to me. :P

Could be. I remember seeing FWD smallblock Monte Carlos rumbling around the grounds of GM Oshawa back in the day when I was still gainfully employed there. In that case it went into production (whether or not THAT was a good idea is a whole 'nother discussion).

I will be the first to admit that the LS7 would be a bit of an odd duck in an all-DI smallblock world. But it has the credentials, and it's always been a low-volume build engine. A slight refresh to get it up to 520hp is probably doable.

Edited by El Kabong
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sounds like a test mule to me. :P

Could be. I remember seeing FWD smallblock Monte Carlos rumbling around the grounds of GM Oshawa back in the day when I was still gainfully employed there. In that case it went into production (whether or not THAT was a good idea is a whole 'nother discussion).

I will be the first to admit that the LS7 would be a bit of an odd duck in an all-DI smallblock world. But it has the credentials, and it's always been a low-volume build engine. A slight refresh to get it up to 520hp is probably doable.

 

Perhaps it's a test mule for a possible 2020 ish dedicated coupe for Cadillac, to kind of go against F-Type, 911 (overlap with Corvette); but a massaged Alpha based coupe with CF - damn it's gonna go against fish that don't know they are on the brink of being fried if it was made.

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The LS7 came out 8 or 9 years ago, it is an old engine at this point.  GM did of course keep the 3800 around for 30 years, but I don't think the LS7 will live on in any 2016 or beyond models.  Even thinking that Cadillac can be saved with a Chevrolet engine from 2007 is exactly why Cadillac is where it is.

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