Random Thoughts Thread

[David]

10 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Other than the Corvette and the BOF trucks/SUVs, where is GM's killer product?

That would depend on your idea of what a killer product is. To me, the Corvette is a cool product, but not a killer product.

To me at the time a killer product was my AWD Trailblazer SS that I still own. Another Killer product is the Escalade V, better late than never. Plenty of killer products over the past few decades depending on one's viewpoint.

[balthazar]

18 hours ago, David said:

Being that Buick is supposedly going to be all electric auto.

Again; this doesn't matter. The implication that Buick -going to all BE at some future point- is suddenly going to morph over into a full-line of product: full-size lux sedans, a 'Riviera', a 'GS/GSX', a mid-sized 'Regal', a compact 'Verano', etc etc merely because the power source is electric makes no sense. Demographics & market trends ebb & flow, brands rise & fall, and while 'comebacks' of course have absolutely happened, it's illogical to think that BE-power is going to change the near future market share of brands.

The industry at large is heading for a massive over-production capacity, simply because they can 'more easily' put smaller, simpler electric motors in different vehicles. Rivian's over-capacity plans for example- they have very little assurances they will come anywhere near close to their projections... esp being a start-up brand with no existing buyer pool. Right now, with everything up in the air, the possibilities are more open. Once the majority of brands are offering BE's, there's going to be a massive reality check once these ambitious start-ups no longer offer anything vastly different (and cannot compete on price). We could already dub it the 'Turmoil Decade'.

[David]

13 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Again; this doesn't matter. The implication that Buick -going to all BE at some future point- is suddenly going to morph over into a full-line of product: full-size lux sedans, a 'Riviera', a 'GS/GSX', a mid-sized 'Regal', a compact 'Verano', etc etc merely because the power source is electric makes no sense. Demographics & market trends ebb & flow, brands rise & fall, and while 'comebacks' of course have absolutely happened, it's illogical to think that BE-power is going to change the near future market share of brands.

The industry at large is heading for a massive over-production capacity, simply because they can 'more easily' put smaller, simpler electric motors in different vehicles. Rivian's over-capacity plans for example- they have very little assurances they will come anywhere near close to their projections... esp being a start-up brand with no existing buyer pool. Right now, with everything up in the air, the possibilities are more open. Once the majority of brands are offering BE's, there's going to be a massive reality check once these ambitious start-ups no longer offer anything vastly different (and cannot compete on price). We could already dub it the 'Turmoil Decade'.

It does matter since most of Buick is handled in China with some design elements from the studios in California. Cars are still a big part of the China marketing mix and as GM has done before in the past with exporting performance autos from Australia to the U.S., this could happen with China exporting performance cars to the U.S.

I get the other points your making, but we cannot say that cause they stopped producing cars here in the U.S. that GM will never bring a car here again. That would be short sighted thinking on selling to every possible customer. We have already read here that there are some very dedicated car buyers. As such, if the cost is low enough even with the cost of exporting it to the U.S., I do believe you can make a business case for a limited run of cars that are sold at specific dealers.

[ccap41]

50 minutes ago, balthazar said:

the Lambda SUVs are very competitive, Camaro is excellent,

"very competitive" is far from a "killer product"

Camaro wouldn't be dropping in sales for like 5 years if it was a "killer product" like the Charger/Challenger, right? 

42 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Rivian's over-capacity plans for example- they have very little assurances they will come anywhere near close to their projections... esp being a start-up brand with no existing buyer pool.

While I agree as a whole, Rivian has the Amazon contract that should take up a few years of production as (hopefully) the demand builds for their other products. 

[balthazar]

We’ve discussed the Amazon contract- it’s 33K units per year.
- - - - - 
As for ‘killer’ - that would depend on your definition. I don’t use sales volume on niche vehicles to determine that.

[David]

Very interesting read as Ford CEO considers breaking up Ford ICE and Ford BEV.

Ford’s CEO just made a convincing case to break his company up and go full EV | Fortune

Quote:

“I’m struck at how different the rhythm of this digital BEV business is versus ICE,”

“If we had full production today to meet our current demand, we would rival the [Tesla] Model Y as the leading BEV nameplate in the U.S. market,” Farley said.

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, David said:

we cannot say that cause they stopped producing cars here in the U.S. that GM will never bring a car here again.

And no one did. But the fact that sedans are dying off as a long-term trend is inarguable. And whether or not Buick sells sedans (BE or IC) in China is still irrelevant- different product mix for different markets. There’s little evidence for a Buick sedan in the US to be profitable/successful. And the foreign rebranding on Buicks here isn’t helping the long-term image of Buick.

In other words; consumers were NOT buying Buick sedans here much specifically because they were IC (you know; like 98% of the entire US market). It was a lot of other factors.

[ccap41]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

As for ‘killer’ - that would depend on your definition.

Lambda SUVs are about as far from "killer" as it gets in my book. FWD, same torque-less V6 from 20 years ago. Not saying they're not competitive, just SO FAR AWAY from something being described as "killer", to me. 

[balthazar]

I haven’t kept up on the segment, I admit. Prolly still going off their initial few years in my mind.

Regardless, we’ve strayed pretty far from ‘could/would Buick build a modern GSX’.

[oldshurst442]

We've all had a say in what this particular automotive journalist suggested Buick should do with what appears to be his dream. 

I reacted the way I did because I too, would have loved to experience a Buick muscle car renaissance. I shared that automotive journalist's opinion myself. Its just that I had that opinion and wanted it to come true 20-25 years ago.  

I opened up my restaurant in 1996.  I dropped out of university (had half a year or so left to get a degree in economics and in political science) to venture in the restaurant world.  

A couple of years in, and the restaurant was making money and I was still living at home paying no rent and no real expenses (did that until I got married in 2003), I was never quite happy with the cars that were available to buy in the late 1990s to early 2000s.  

Sure, Id love a Trans Am, could have bought one. Maybe not a Trans Am, but a less expensive Firebird  Formula V8.  The restaurant was still young and I didnt want to fully indulge in expensive luxury. Not that I do that nowadays either.  Its all about putting money  on the side...but Im digressing. 

Anyway, back in the 1997, 1998, 1999 world, I wanted to feel like a young entrepreneur, not a young punk. I wanted a pseudo luxury car, a 2 door coupe, speedy, but not too speedy, sporty, new, that defined who I was without breaking the bank. 

There were not too many choices.  

Firebird Formula V8 was too speedy and not enough luxury and perhaps making me look like a young punk.

Nothing at Chevy.

Nothing at Buick, maybe the Riviera, but the Riviera was too expensive anyway. 

I really really wanted to buy an Oldsmobile. Like the Riviera, the Aurora was too expensive. 

I really like the Intrigue. But it was a 4 door.

I would have bought a Pontiac, but the Grand Prix was too sporty and not enough entrepreneur/restauranteur luxury.  

So I bought the Alero.  PERFECT car for me.  

But it was NOT what I wanted out of an Alero...

I really really wanted an Olds Cutlass Supreme. Coupe.  Either as a RWD G Body or a FWD W-Body.  And the Intrigue that replaced it, did not come that way at all in either form.  

I didnt want ANY Bimmer, but I kinda admit, a 3 Series coupe would have fit my criteria. Thanks but no thanks.  Because I wasnt about to become a Eurosnob prick either... 

So this is where a Buick GSX or Olds 442 revival come in.  If not a FWD Cutlass Supreme, I really really wanted a true blue muscle car.  But GM wasnt making any. None of the Big 3 were.    

I had bought the Motor Trend magazine when they revealed this RWD Monte Carlo based on the F-Body Platform, reskinnned with Chevy Lumina Coupe panels...

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/1995-chevrolet-monte-carlo-ss/

 

And dreamt of modern Olds 442s and Buick GSXs.   

Especially when Mopar also teased us with a RWD Charger in 1999.

 

So my dream of a Buick GSX comes from a long time ago.  But Ive realized that it is not meant to be for Buick.   

Chrysler with the 300 came close for me to buy something like a modern, luxury muscle car in a modern luxury Buick GSX kinda way, but in 2005, I bought a FWD supercharged Impala SS instead.

Weird how that has happened.... 

And Oldsmobile no longer around, Buick only a CUV maker and Chrysler on the dumps fearing of going the way of Oldsmobile. 

 

 

 

[balthazar]

572 BB turbo'd. Aiming for mid 6's in the quarter ~ 

 

Went 170 MPH in the 1/8th mile, then coasted to a 7.2-sec 1/4-mile at 156.
 

 

[balthazar]

[David]

If your a foodie like me, then this web site is a must to know what is going on day by day.

https://nationaltoday.com/what-is-today/

[balthazar]

^ Pluto and thumbs are more popular than batteries!! 😆 😆 😆 

- - - - - 
 

[David]

Crazy house prices, no ifs, ands or but's about it. Just got my county tax record for 2022 and what my property tax will be, $5,100 for the year. Thought it was crazy till I saw the price they estimate my house is worth. My house is on a 1/4-acre lot, split level, 3 bedrooms, 2 bath, 2 car garage, 1650 sq ft livable space. $707,000.  I bought it in 1999 for $140,000 and almost have it paid off. Just crazy the prices homes are selling for around the Seattle area.

Another split level with only a single car garage, 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, 1075 sq ft livable space was completely gutted and remodeled with granite counters, all stainless-steel appliances, new windows, doors, roof and fake wood floors throughout, seems carpet is out now for home. Sold for $775,000, was listed for $700,000 but got into a bidding war. Just stupid crazy the home prices here now.

[balthazar]

That's NOTHING for taxes.
I have 2028 SF on .9 acres, valued less than yours, with taxes WAY higher.
I had it built in 1992, paid it off in 2004.

[balthazar]

[David]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

That's NOTHING for taxes.
I have 2028 SF on .9 acres, valued less than yours, with taxes WAY higher.
I had it built in 1992, paid it off in 2004.

Awesome, congratulations on having it paid off, I have a few years left, but way ahead of others, I think. So glad to have almost no debt as I think Interest rates are going to jump like crazy this year.

[balthazar]

You don't have a fixed rate??

[David]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

You don't have a fixed rate??

I have a fixed apr of 3.99%, not changing anything as I am too close to having it paid off in a couple years. But just the crazy prices assigned by the county is why I posted. Clearly home ownership is not going to happen for many Americans with prices like this.

[balthazar]

Location to the 3rd power.

Was 'street crusin' thru Tucumcari NM (via googliemaps)... and for $80K-$180K, you pretty much have your pick of the entire town. As long as you don't mind eerily-empty streets... 

[David]

This is interesting, they say 43% of truck buyers plan to go electric in the next 10 years.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/02/43-percent-of-pickup-owners-plan-to-own-an-electric-truck-in-next-decade-study-says/amp/

Seems Nissan will build 2 BEVs produced from their Mississippi plant.

https://amp.detroitnews.com/amp/6834575001

[balthazar]

Talk is cheap.

[Robert Hall]

On 2/18/2022 at 10:05 PM, David said:

Crazy house prices, no ifs, ands or but's about it. Just got my county tax record for 2022 and what my property tax will be, $5,100 for the year. Thought it was crazy till I saw the price they estimate my house is worth. My house is on a 1/4-acre lot, split level, 3 bedrooms, 2 bath, 2 car garage, 1650 sq ft livable space. $707,000.  I bought it in 1999 for $140,000 and almost have it paid off. Just crazy the prices homes are selling for around the Seattle area.

Another split level with only a single car garage, 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, 1075 sq ft livable space was completely gutted and remodeled with granite counters, all stainless-steel appliances, new windows, doors, roof and fake wood floors throughout, seems carpet is out now for home. Sold for $775,000, was listed for $700,000 but got into a bidding war. Just stupid crazy the home prices here now.

Your property taxes are low relative to valuation. My split level outside Cleveland I bought for $165k 5 years ago (currently valued around $260k) has property taxes around $5400/yr for 2022.    My 130 acre family property out in the sticks has property taxes of $4500/yr, estimated value of $5-600k for the land…

[balthazar]

[balthazar]

'Vivant' concept designed by Pontiac engineer Herb Adams (but not thru GM). Pontiac 389 powered, circa '64. I remember the internet buzz when this was 'discovered' 5-10 years ago, has been restored since. 

2010 :
https://bringatrailer.com/2010/02/07/ghia-ish-1965-adams-pontiac-aluminum-special/

[balthazar]

Same car ~ 

[daves87rs]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:40 PM, David said:

Seems for car fans that maybe Ford might bring the newest Mondeo Sedan that they just released in China to North America as it was found with plates on in Michigan.

New Ford Mondeo Spied In Michigan Again, But It's Wearing Plates Now (msn.com)

@oldshurst442 @ccap41 Maybe a car for you yet.

This has come and gone many times and Musk has always ignored it, so I have expected this lawsuit.

Why is California suing Tesla? (msn.com)

I’ve heard rumors of it coming back…but as a hybrid/EV

[David]

14 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

I’ve heard rumors of it coming back…but as a hybrid/EV

Nothing wrong with that, a good green solution and clearly easy to make a performance version of it.  

This is interesting, I just do not see allot of interesting in a tweener between compact and sub-compact of a CUV Coupe.

GM Developing Future Chevy Crossover Coupe: Exclusive (gmauthority.com)

[David]

Very Cool Read on Shell Converting gas stations to full on fast charging stations.

Photos: Old Shell Gas Station Converted to EV-Only Charging Hub (businessinsider.com)

[balthazar]

Revenge for Godzilla ~ 

[David]

38 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Revenge for Godzilla ~ 

While I love that the Japanese love American Muscle, I have to laugh at this as it reminds me of a cat showing it's butt!

Cat Butt Charger!  

[David]

Interesting read, an independant auto design person based on the LYRIQ and comments from Cadillac about a Halo Luxury auto designed a car.

The Cadillac Lumin Is An Unofficial Design Study For A Flagship Electric Sedan | Carscoops

@balthazar @Robert Hall @ccap41 @riviera74 @daves87rs @Drew Dowdell @oldshurst442 @surreal1272 What are your thoughts?

Cadillac LUMIN

Lots more photos at the link above.

[balthazar]

No-oooooope. 
Front fender 'relief' is out of place.
Coved rear too dissimilar to Cadillac design language.

I'm in the 'wait & see' camp regarding the Lyriq's nose... which this is lifted from.

GM Design will do much better. 

[Robert Hall]

Interesting, but not very Cadillac style overall.  I like Cadillacs with vertical taillights.  
 

For some randomness, I’ve been busy the last few days dealing w/ my brother’s passing and the mess he left of the family farm.  I hate mud season on the farm.  Snows, everything freezes.  Then it warms up, everything melts into a slushy muddy mess.  Then repeat.  4 trips down and back the last 4 days…(almost 200 miles round trip each).  Going to be a lot of weekends coming going up and down I-77..

 

[surreal1272]

Bearing in mind that these are purely concept renderings (skipping that Polestar like taillight treatment that will never go on a Caddy), there is potential there. However, will Cadillac actually build it? That's the bigger question here.

[riviera74]

That Caddy could easily be the next Camaro.  Other than that, not really a Cadillac.

[balthazar]

I strongly hope they do built a 'Celestiq'.

[daves87rs]

The front is cool….but it needs to look much more like a car…..

Design is not bad though..

[David]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Interesting, but not very Cadillac style overall.  I like Cadillacs with vertical taillights.  
 

For some randomness, I’ve been busy the last few days dealing w/ my brother’s passing and the mess he left of the family farm.  I hate mud season on the farm.  Snows, everything freezes.  Then it warms up, everything melts into a slushy muddy mess.  Then repeat.  4 trips down and back the last 4 days…(almost 200 miles round trip each).  Going to be a lot of weekends coming going up and down I-77..

 

Poor baby needs a loving bath / detail. 

Once your done with the Farm, I would schedule that baby up with a detail shop!

[David]

This is a very cool video to watch of Magna's EV conversion system on a GMC 2500 pickup and I have to say it rocks!

547 HP or 408 kW of power using an 80 kW battery pack.

Yes, I know I am bias toward BEV, but I really think Magna has a great conversion system. I cannot wait to see it go on sale in 2024.

@balthazar @Robert Hall @ccap41 @riviera74 @daves87rs @Drew Dowdell @oldshurst442 @surreal1272 

Thoughts?

[balthazar]

I watched it elsewhere... the drag race for a HD truck is like a towing test for exotics- it's a non-factor.

BE makers need to address the needs of the segment they're targeting. There's a lot of 'misdirection' on a lot of these BE trucks. It's not going to play out to the volumes they think it will; the segment's buyers are not looking for a 'reinvention of the truck', and the historically high sales of pickups in this country is proof positive of that.

A Duramax currently has 910 TRQ @ 1600 RPM, and is supposed to bump to 1087 next year.

[David]

37 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I watched it elsewhere... the drag race for a HD truck is like a towing test for exotics- it's a non-factor.

BE makers need to address the needs of the segment they're targeting. There's a lot of 'misdirection' on a lot of these BE trucks. It's not going to play out to the volumes they think it will; the segment's buyers are not looking for a 'reinvention of the truck', and the historically high sales of pickups in this country is proof positive of that.

A Duramax currently has 910 TRQ @ 1600 RPM, and is supposed to bump to 1087 next year.

Sure, for the little torque where the engine has to rev to 1,600 RPM and yet as I posted here, we are talking 13,777 nM or over 10,000 lb-ft of torque from a dead start. Other than battery pack, I do not see Diesel being able to do better than electric at this time. Once Solid-State batteries become standard, I think it will be very hard to not replace Diesel for electric.

 

[balthazar]

How this one - 6.6L Duramax can tow 35,500 lbs.

Magna is stating its powertrain is good for only 14,500.
'22 GM 3.0L Duramax does up to 13,300 lbs.

Not there yet.

[David]

24 minutes ago, balthazar said:

How this one - 6.6L Duramax can tow 35,500 lbs.

Magna is stating its powertrain is good for only 14,500.
'22 GM 3.0L Duramax does up to 13,300 lbs.

Not there yet.

Like anything, I expect this to be understated and they will QA Test it. I expect it to get there even though I doubt many people who buy an HD truck actually ever really tow what the crazy weight is stated for towing.

[Robert Hall]

9 hours ago, David said:

Poor baby needs a loving bath / detail. 

Once your done with the Farm, I would schedule that baby up with a detail shop!

It's raining today...left it outside, maybe some of the mud will come off..going to run through a car wash tomorrow and try and get the mud and salt off.   Still have several weeks of winter left.

Alas, my weekends the next 6 months are probably going to have many trips to the farm..trying to clean up the mess my older brother left behind.  I have no idea where the keys, titles, etc are to his dozen cars, trucks, SUVs and 1/2 dozen motorcycles are... and he pretty much destroyed the house that has been in my family for over 50 years.  And he died presumably without a will, so that will be fun to sort out.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Robert Hall

[surreal1272]

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

How this one - 6.6L Duramax can tow 35,500 lbs.

Which is perfect for the three folks who actually tow anywhere near that much stuff 😎

[ccap41]

8 hours ago, David said:

547 HP or 408 kW of power using an 80 kW battery pack.

80kW battery? That thing will travel an awesome 75 miles before needing to charge. 

I'm very confident that electricity will be a better mover of weight with superior control having front and rear motors and they're extremely heavy vehicles with all of the batteries already. My only issue is the range is cut so much that it just isn't worth it quite yet. 

[David]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

80kW battery? That thing will travel an awesome 75 miles before needing to charge. 

I'm very confident that electricity will be a better mover of weight with superior control having front and rear motors and they're extremely heavy vehicles with all of the batteries already. My only issue is the range is cut so much that it just isn't worth it quite yet. 

Yes, as to why I said the batteries. It is interesting to see that efficiencies in the electronics / motors are jumping faster than ICE as we are seeing many electric autos with 70 to 80 kWH battery packs have 300 miles.

I see that the Magna truck conversion was done with a minimal battery pack as they are testing the motor / controller. I am willing to bet you could easily convert to a 200 kWH battery pack to give you a decent towing range.

Also, all the work on the upcoming solid-state batteries that have 4 to 10 times energy density is going to help. For the subcompact / compact space, I expect 30 to 40 kWH battery packs giving ya 250 to 300 miles. For mid-size and full-size, I think we will see battery pack options so people can decide what range they want.

[balthazar]

It’s true the vast majority of people never use the max capabilites of their vehicle often. Just like the vast majority of BE drivers never go 0-60 in 4 secs. 😉
But in a world where products are promoted on specs, the numbers both resonate, and move product.

Edited February 22, 2022 by balthazar