Chinese-Built Buick Envision Packs Bags For The US

[ccap41]

Off topic, but, I've seen one of those electric buses around Stl last summer. There were markings saying it was a test vehicle and it was free to use. I haven't seen one since but it's route could very well just be off enough I never see it. It was pretty crazy when it drove past and as a massive vehicle you could only hear tire noise.

[steve333]

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

[Drew Dowdell]

Then buy an Enclave instead of an Envision. Problem solved.

[surreal1272]

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

And the same goes for the electronic device you are typing on here. There are options but that's not the bigger point here. Again, it's a world economy when it comes to vehicles. I am really not sure how to make this any clearer. 

[steve333]

 

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

And the same goes for the electronic device you are typing on here. There are options but that's not the bigger point here. Again, it's a world economy when it comes to vehicles. I am really not sure how to make this any clearer. 

 

I want a Mac I don't have a choice. I want a vehicle I have many choices.

As for the world economy, when a country doesn't trade fairly with my country I don't like it. I don't know how to make that any clearer. 

[ocnblu]

I do agree with Steve's point about fair trade.  America has an unfortunate history of giving everything away, in my opinion.

[hyperv6]

I do agree with Steve's point about fair trade.  America has an unfortunate history of giving everything away, in my opinion.

The problem is life Ain't fair.

If you do not want a Chinese built vehicle do not buy one. Yes the trade rules have not been fair to the United States in China but also in most countries it is not fair to us. Just look at what Japan has required alone.

What he leaves out in China yes they pay less to their workers but they also have a lot more government supported things since they are socialist. When the Government is providing so much the need to pay workers a lot comes down. Yes the housing can be basic and the health care sucks but that is part of the all share in victory and all share in defeat mentality of socialism.

There is no perfect utopia out there were assembly line workers are going to be millionaires unless being a millionaire is middle class. The thinking anymore is everyone should have the same does not work. Everyone should have a chance to work for the same things but not be handed everything.

You can raise min wage all day but in the end the workers end up in the same place as the cost of living increases to pay people more. The way out is to educate and work to improve your life but so many here will not do that. In China people have gone from Dirt huts to apartments in modern cities eating KFC that were not modern 25 years ago. They are buying Buicks in record numbers as well as many other western brands. They have improved their place in life with the interjection of opportunities that the controlled capitalism has given them.

The fact is the Chinese government has no love for us but it is important that we remain important to them. Like it or not they need our buying power to remain relevant. Out place is to keep a controlled relevance to them.

Lets face it if our economy did not matter to them they would shut us down in a heart beat.

This is called Mutual Assured Economic Destruction and the world has been using this since the 60's. What has kept those with Nukes from making a move. The knowledge that if they take out a major player in the global market that they too will fall economically. Case in point the Russians did not want to make a move as they knew their already teetering economy was at risk if they did anything. China now is in this boat as they really have something to lose now.

Then we have N Korea and Iran who both feel they have nothing to lose and pose to be two of the greatest dangers. You have one that is crazy and the other who what's to meet Ala soon and take out the infidels. Economics matter little to them.

The fact is China is here and not going anywhere. The fact is we can not make many things anymore because we just don't hold the ability anymore. Fact China is not just making crap anymore and we need to take this seriously. Fact few people in this country are willing to be competitive globally pay wise so who are you going to get to build things here at a price people will buy them at and not visit COSCO?

This is a time to work smarter and harder and deal with this head on. As of now few in our government will do what we need to do to gain our edge back. In fact what we have now is one that has only give away some of the edge we still hold and put us at a disadvantage.

Unfortunaly we have become a divided nation of greedy lazy people. Both the left and right have their issues and we really have no clear leaders who are willing to take on the challenge.

For those of you all panicked about a handful of Buicks you tend to overlook that most of your medications are now made there. You have a whole lot of things more serious to think about than these SUV's. Imagine if you need a specific drug for a illness and the China's economy fails and they stop production? That is only the start of problems.

China and the United States at this point are tied together economically. Each is looking for an edges here but both know the other will flounder with out the other. We may not like each other but we both are in a place we both need each other.

Do I wish we were self sustaining like we used to be? Yes but that is not going to happen as things have changed. We are to a point now we much continue to work to gain an edge to hold power to where we are relevant. Many great countries like Great Britain have lost their edge and hold little power in the world now. We must fight to prevent that.

The really sad part are the folks that could really help us now want no part of our political system as it is such a mess all the way around. Why get involved there when they can do more good on their own.

I am sure Steve here has good intentions but he is just thinking with his heart and not his head. There is just so much to this here all of us here could not resolve it in a few post. This is a deep issue that is on so many levels that most people can not grasp the complexity. Then you consider that most have no clue who are Vice President is then it is little wonder they have no understanding on this topic and what it really is all about.

This is what you get for not teaching Political Science, more history and Economics in School.

Edited January 3, 2016 by hyperv6

[Cmicasa the Great]

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

And the same goes for the electronic device you are typing on here. There are options but that's not the bigger point here. Again, it's a world economy when it comes to vehicles. I am really not sure how to make this any clearer.

I want a Mac I don't have a choice. I want a vehicle I have many choices.

As for the world economy, when a country doesn't trade fairly with my country I don't like it. I don't know how to make that any clearer.

Then pitch a tent outside of the Capitol... Boycott every... EVERY American corporation.. that decided that U cost to much to employ while bitching about your lunch break being too short and your Viagra not being covered under your health plan.. China didn't do this.. Eff China... America did this... Allows this.

[surreal1272]

 

 

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

And the same goes for the electronic device you are typing on here. There are options but that's not the bigger point here. Again, it's a world economy when it comes to vehicles. I am really not sure how to make this any clearer. 

 

I want a Mac I don't have a choice. I want a vehicle I have many choices.

As for the world economy, when a country doesn't trade fairly with my country I don't like it. I don't know how to make that any clearer. 

 

Actually, you are misinformed because the Mac Pro is made here, so there is a choice with Apple. BTW, most countries have what would be considered unfair trade practices, including us. Facts are your friend here, thus making your supposed argument a bit hallow.

Edited January 3, 2016 by surreal1272

[ocnblu]

Oh yeah, we get what we allow.  It's our own fault if we let it happen freely, blithely, ignorantly...

[Drew Dowdell]

.... and the argument Steve is using against China, the US does the exact same thing but with trucks and SUVs.   Or did you think Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Kia, Nissan, Volvo, and Mitsubishi built manufacturing plants here out of the goodness of their hearts to the American worker?

[ccap41]

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

And the same goes for the electronic device you are typing on here. There are options but that's not the bigger point here. Again, it's a world economy when it comes to vehicles. I am really not sure how to make this any clearer.

I want a Mac I don't have a choice. I want a vehicle I have many choices.

As for the world economy, when a country doesn't trade fairly with my country I don't like it. I don't know how to make that any clearer.

That's a terrible comparison. You named a specific brand of computer and then just "vehicle" as broad as it gets. If you want a Mac you have one choice, if you want a Ferrari you have one choice as well(brand for brand).

I do understand you wanting countries to trade FAIRLY with us, that makes sense. I can agree with that.

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

And the same goes for the electronic device you are typing on here. There are options but that's not the bigger point here. Again, it's a world economy when it comes to vehicles. I am really not sure how to make this any clearer.

I want a Mac I don't have a choice. I want a vehicle I have many choices.

As for the world economy, when a country doesn't trade fairly with my country I don't like it. I don't know how to make that any clearer.

That's a terrible comparison. You named a specific brand of computer and then just "vehicle" as broad as it gets. If you want a Mac you have one choice, if you want a Ferrari you have one choice as well(brand for brand).

I do understand you wanting countries to trade FAIRLY with us, that makes sense. I can agree with that.

 

And I just showed how his little Apple argument is flawed by the fact that they actually make one of their computers (the Mac Pro) in the U.S. Just a lot of straw grasping on his part.

[steve333]

 

 

 

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

And the same goes for the electronic device you are typing on here. There are options but that's not the bigger point here. Again, it's a world economy when it comes to vehicles. I am really not sure how to make this any clearer. 

 

I want a Mac I don't have a choice. I want a vehicle I have many choices.

As for the world economy, when a country doesn't trade fairly with my country I don't like it. I don't know how to make that any clearer. 

 

Actually, you are misinformed because the Mac Pro is made here, so there is a choice with Apple. BTW, most countries have what would be considered unfair trade practices, including us. Facts are your friend here, thus making your supposed argument a bit hallow.

 

You're comparing a Mac Mini to a Mac Pro? That's like saying I should buy a Cadillac when I can only afford a Sonic. 

.... and the argument Steve is using against China, the US does the exact same thing but with trucks and SUVs.   Or did you think Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Kia, Nissan, Volvo, and Mitsubishi built manufacturing plants here out of the goodness of their hearts to the American worker?

I have no problem with that. If a Chinese company wanted to build a Plant here to sell cars more power to them.

[steve333]

Oh yeah, we get what we allow.  It's our own fault if we let it happen freely, blithely, ignorantly...

Yup, it is our fault. Not faulting the Chinese Government for taking advantage of it, I'm more angry with GM for doing this as I don't think it's needed and it makes them look bad especially when people are still angry over the bailout.

[hyperv6]

Dude it is clear China is not our best friend. Just by the way they steal from our unwitting government military secrets are enough to show that.

The bottom line is you are not going to starve China out and you are not going to our produce them. They are too large and their labor is to cheap to do so no matter how you figure it.

You can compare Apples to Oranges or Mac or what ever all day and it is only a single drop in the bucket. To defend against China and its economic might we need to do so also economically in areas we still can compete. Chinas weakness is they can only copy and reproduce. They are learning to create but they are still behind. If our government would wake up and fund more projects with the Military and NASA the technology race would be in our favor and we could if we protect it use it to our advantage.

Then we could play games with currency values as they do and hold some leverage.

As of now American companies can not afford not to be a part of their economy as those who do not participate will be at a major disadvantage. Any automaker not involved in China runs the risk of failure in the long run as development cost continue to rise they need to find more market share while other markets remain stagnate.

As they say keep my friends close and mine enemies closer.

But to harp about poor quality and harp about patriotism is not going to work. They make things as well as we do in many areas anymore. Also to convince the American public to either work for less money or pay more for average everyday goods is not going to wash either. America has been dealt a hand and we have to play it at this point. We still hold enough cards to remain relevant but harping over a hand full of Buicks is not going to so a damn thing.

The fact is you have to use all the facts not just the emotional ones.

And again why do you not complain about all the pharmaceutical companies importing the prescription drugs we take. Most come from there anymore and I find that more disturbing since much of it could not be made here in short term if they cut it off.

Buick you can choose not to buy but a valuable drug keeping mom or dad alive is not an option.

Edited January 3, 2016 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

 

Oh yeah, we get what we allow.  It's our own fault if we let it happen freely, blithely, ignorantly...

Yup, it is our fault. Not faulting the Chinese Government for taking advantage of it, I'm more angry with GM for doing this as I don't think it's needed and it makes them look bad especially when people are still angry over the bailout.

 

 

You want them to be bad at business?   If anything, from a strictly business standpoint, more Buicks should be built in China because that's where most of them are sold. 

 

GM cannot and should not be spinning up a whole new production line just to build 60,000 cars for the U.S.  They've already had to move the Terrain and Equinox around a bit just to accommodate those two. 

[hyperv6]

Drew you might also add where much of the money comes back to.

GM and Chrysler were pretty much in the same boat broke. They both got bailed out and what happened from there is telling.

Chrysler with no presents in China had to find a partner to survive. The best they could do is Fiat also in dire money trouble and with little presents in China. Today they are living on Jeep sales and not much else.

GM on the other hand took what money they had and put it into their car lines so they would have something to hold them on the other side. While that was going on sales were surging in China that brought income to America so they could continue to produce new platform and new cars that were desperetly needed.

Now with out China GM may have had a hard time replacing anything or updating as much as they have. Sure the trucks bring in money but at the time little else. Today that is changing and the market share in China is paying for many of the things we need here.

[steve333]

Dude it is clear China is not our best friend. Just by the way they steal from our unwitting government military secrets are enough to show that.

The bottom line is you are not going to starve China out and you are not going to our produce them. They are too large and their labor is to cheap to do so no matter how you figure it.

You can compare Apples to Oranges or Mac or what ever all day and it is only a single drop in the bucket. To defend against China and its economic might we need to do so also economically in areas we still can compete. Chinas weakness is they can only copy and reproduce. They are learning to create but they are still behind. If our government would wake up and fund more projects with the Military and NASA the technology race would be in our favor and we could if we protect it use it to our advantage.

Then we could play games with currency values as they do and hold some leverage.

As of now American companies can not afford not to be a part of their economy as those who do not participate will be at a major disadvantage. Any automaker not involved in China runs the risk of failure in the long run as development cost continue to rise they need to find more market share while other markets remain stagnate.

As they say keep my friends close and mine enemies closer.

But to harp about poor quality and harp about patriotism is not going to work. They make things as well as we do in many areas anymore. Also to convince the American public to either work for less money or pay more for average everyday goods is not going to wash either. America has been dealt a hand and we have to play it at this point. We still hold enough cards to remain relevant but harping over a hand full of Buicks is not going to so a damn thing.

The fact is you have to use all the facts not just the emotional ones.

And again why do you not complain about all the pharmaceutical companies importing the prescription drugs we take. Most come from there anymore and I find that more disturbing since much of it could not be made here in short term if they cut it off.

Buick you can choose not to buy but a valuable drug keeping mom or dad alive is not an option.

I do harp about those things just not in car forums.

Maybe it's time to change the hand we were dealt. There's a reason Trump and Bernie are doing so well in the primaries. People are finally fed up. 

[steve333]

 

 

Oh yeah, we get what we allow.  It's our own fault if we let it happen freely, blithely, ignorantly...

Yup, it is our fault. Not faulting the Chinese Government for taking advantage of it, I'm more angry with GM for doing this as I don't think it's needed and it makes them look bad especially when people are still angry over the bailout.

 

 

You want them to be bad at business?   If anything, from a strictly business standpoint, more Buicks should be built in China because that's where most of them are sold. 

 

GM cannot and should not be spinning up a whole new production line just to build 60,000 cars for the U.S.  They've already had to move the Terrain and Equinox around a bit just to accommodate those two. 

 

If they build Buick's in China and sell them there I have no problem with that. 

I think you all are downplaying the way this will play out in the media and in the mind of consumers. We may be rooting for GM, those that aren't will come down on them harder than I am.

As for not being able to produce the Envision in the U.S. that's just another sign of GM's shortsightedness.

I think GM needs a new CEO, have thought it for a long time. Barra is not up to the job, IMO

[hyperv6]

Oh yeah, we get what we allow.  It's our own fault if we let it happen freely, blithely, ignorantly...

Yup, it is our fault. Not faulting the Chinese Government for taking advantage of it, I'm more angry with GM for doing this as I don't think it's needed and it makes them look bad especially when people are still angry over the bailout.

 

You want them to be bad at business?   If anything, from a strictly business standpoint, more Buicks should be built in China because that's where most of them are sold. 

 

GM cannot and should not be spinning up a whole new production line just to build 60,000 cars for the U.S.  They've already had to move the Terrain and Equinox around a bit just to accommodate those two.

If they build Buick's in China and sell them there I have no problem with that. 

I think you all are downplaying the way this will play out in the media and in the mind of consumers. We may be rooting for GM, those that aren't will come down on them harder than I am.

As for not being able to produce the Envision in the U.S. that's just another sign of GM's shortsightedness.

I think GM needs a new CEO, have thought it for a long time. Barra is not up to the job, IMO

Well most of us have been around to know when to panic and when to not. Being that over half this country drives imported cars you will see little push back. These folks just don't care anymore. and that is a big part of the problem. Also it is going to take hard work and some sacrifice in different ways to change things but most will not.

As tough as the depression and wars were on us they did build generation that would do what it took to make this a better country. Today so many are either too greedy or indifferent anymore. At leat till it is too late.

GM knows what they are doing. This is a limited import and with a vehicle that has everything to gain and little too lose. If we are right it is added profits to GM. If you are right they pull the plug and sell off the remaining inventory.

Mary has done a better job than most CEO's that have faced the challenges that she has faced. I was not a fan when I heard she was chosen but now I look back and I was wrong about her as she has done one hell of a Job.

Besides this choice may have been Marks to start with anyways since it is his job to make these decisions. So be careful who you blaime or give credit to.

I do believe we need some real leadership changes but Trump and Bernie are not what we really need. We don't even need Hilary or Cruz either. The problem is the people we need are too smart to run for office.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

Oh yeah, we get what we allow.  It's our own fault if we let it happen freely, blithely, ignorantly...

Yup, it is our fault. Not faulting the Chinese Government for taking advantage of it, I'm more angry with GM for doing this as I don't think it's needed and it makes them look bad especially when people are still angry over the bailout.

 

 

You want them to be bad at business?   If anything, from a strictly business standpoint, more Buicks should be built in China because that's where most of them are sold. 

 

GM cannot and should not be spinning up a whole new production line just to build 60,000 cars for the U.S.  They've already had to move the Terrain and Equinox around a bit just to accommodate those two. 

 

If they build Buick's in China and sell them there I have no problem with that. 

I think you all are downplaying the way this will play out in the media and in the mind of consumers. We may be rooting for GM, those that aren't will come down on them harder than I am.

As for not being able to produce the Envision in the U.S. that's just another sign of GM's shortsightedness.

I think GM needs a new CEO, have thought it for a long time. Barra is not up to the job, IMO

 

 

No one said they aren't able. They are not ready to and there are profits to be had in the meantime.  The Envision is the first crossover on the new D2UX platform.  There are ZERO D2UX platforms being built in the US at the moment. That will change when the new Terrain, Equinox, and whatever other future crossovers start being built in the US, at which time, production is likely to move state-side. 

 

As for the PR.... the people who won't buy a GM over this move weren't going to buy one in the first place.   You don't walk into a GMC store ready to sign your name on a lease for a new Sierra Denali, spot the Envision in the showroom, find out the Envision is made in China, and then leave in protest.  The people who are angry over this just go and lease a new Camry or Sonata every 4 years at $250 down $250 a month deal completely ignorant of their hypocrisy. 

 

If you want a Buick, you can buy one made in America, or Korea, or Poland, or Canada, or China.

[Drew Dowdell]

And to answer the pending question of "Why China first and not the US?" -  The Envision is selling in China at a rate of 12,000 per month... which means they sell as many Envisions in China in 5 months as they expect to sell in the US in 12 months.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Oh yeah, we get what we allow.  It's our own fault if we let it happen freely, blithely, ignorantly...

 

 

 

LOL.. I used to the bold thing.

 

Anyway.. This is exactly what I'm saying. All those Dollar store U see.. Walmarts.. hell. even my GOD Damned LEVIS, sold outta MAcy's are made in CHINA

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

If U wanna hear some idiotic $h!.. there are people on certain forums that say they won't buy another GM vehicle and will go to one of the foreign ones... as if GM does't build anything here

 

[Drew Dowdell]

Those people were already not going to buy a GM anyway. 

[hyperv6]

Anyone noticed how the Chinese stock market dropped yesterday and almost took ours with it?

Yes we have a vested interest in their economy just as they do in ours. It kind of keeps everyone more honest and from destroying the others economy.

As I have said keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[Drew Dowdell]

Anyone noticed how the Chinese stock market dropped yesterday and almost took ours with it?

Yes we have a vested interest in their economy just as they do in ours. It kind of keeps everyone more honest and from destroying the others economy.

As I have said keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

 

If the Chinese stock market didn't have that circuit breaker to stop trading after a sudden 7% drop and the Chinese central bank hadn't put the equiv of $200 billion into the market the next day, we'd be having a very different conversation today. 

[David]

 

Anyone noticed how the Chinese stock market dropped yesterday and almost took ours with it?

Yes we have a vested interest in their economy just as they do in ours. It kind of keeps everyone more honest and from destroying the others economy.

As I have said keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

 

If the Chinese stock market didn't have that circuit breaker to stop trading after a sudden 7% drop and the Chinese central bank hadn't put the equiv of $200 billion into the market the next day, we'd be having a very different conversation today. 

 

Very true, many of my coworkers took this with a who cares, but it could have been a very different situation yesterday if China did not have the circuit breaker and pump in money.

[hyperv6]

Just goes to show the point I made that we have vested interest in each other. One goes down we all go down.

This is how the new world works at least with the economic leaders.

All markets have these built in safety valves as they do not want to repeat the Black Friday Even of 1929 again. These safety valves give them time to sort things out.

But the bottom line is we have to be concerned about Chinas economy and they have to be concerned about outs. One goes we all go.

[Suaviloquent]

The problem is that with the manipulated currency in China and foreign partner restrictions... any profit any foreign automaker makes in China gets taxed, split a little more than evenly against them, and then reduced because of foreign exchange rates.

 

Very few automakers earn more than a billion dollars in Net Income in the Asia-Pacific Region. 

 

It's not as much as automakers make here in N/A, but yeah, with the impressive sales of certain brands in China, it is easy to see why they still survive to this day.

 

I'm fine with more products being made in China. The great thing is that above all, most Chinese middle-class and above consumers actually aspire to own foreign built vehicles as a matter of pride. Seriously, they will sellout to Germans and American cars if they could every time, all day, every day.

[Drew Dowdell]

The problem is that with the manipulated currency in China and foreign partner restrictions... any profit any foreign automaker makes in China gets taxed, split a little more than evenly against them, and then reduced because of foreign exchange rates.

 

Very few automakers earn more than a billion dollars in Net Income in the Asia-Pacific Region. 

 

It's not as much as automakers make here in N/A, but yeah, with the impressive sales of certain brands in China, it is easy to see why they still survive to this day.

 

I'm fine with more products being made in China. The great thing is that above all, most Chinese middle-class and above consumers actually aspire to own foreign built vehicles as a matter of pride. Seriously, they will sellout to Germans and American cars if they could every time, all day, every day.

 

Those are on the book profits.  Being able to sell 90k Regals in China means being able to sell 30k Regals in the US and 75k Insignias in the EU.  It gives the auto makers volume they otherwise wouldn't have.  Buick in particular. 

[Suaviloquent]

Yup, and I salivate over the new Lacrosse because of it.

 

$h!, since China is the reason why some of our favorite brands still exist today... we should be thanking them duly for it. They have embraced the American way of excess and capitalism in a heavily regulated and manipulated economy.

 

There's always a bright side to things. 

[hyperv6]

The problem is that with the manipulated currency in China and foreign partner restrictions... any profit any foreign automaker makes in China gets taxed, split a little more than evenly against them, and then reduced because of foreign exchange rates.

 

Very few automakers earn more than a billion dollars in Net Income in the Asia-Pacific Region. 

 

It's not as much as automakers make here in N/A, but yeah, with the impressive sales of certain brands in China, it is easy to see why they still survive to this day.

 

I'm fine with more products being made in China. The great thing is that above all, most Chinese middle-class and above consumers actually aspire to own foreign built vehicles as a matter of pride. Seriously, they will sellout to Germans and American cars if they could every time, all day, every day.

 

Those are on the book profits.  Being able to sell 90k Regals in China means being able to sell 30k Regals in the US and 75k Insignias in the EU.  It gives the auto makers volume they otherwise wouldn't have.  Buick in particular.

Yes with out the volume of Opel and Buick both brands would not be with us today if not globalization.

It has gotten to a point a brand not just a MFG needs a large volume to cover the development cost anymore. The spreading out of the Buick, Opel, Vauxhall and Holden models will keep them alive and profitable.

This is why we will see many smaller companies with lower volumes in less than global markets die in the next ten years unless they partner with someone.

[smk4565]

I think the majority of crossover buyers won't even know where the Envision comes from or care that it comes from China.  It is a small crossover, that is what buyers want, they'll buy it if they like how it looks and drives regardless of the country of origin.   If it becomes cheaper to build Buicks in China and ship them here, I wouldn't be surprised if GM made every other Buick there and shipped them here.  They'll do what makes the most money.  Sadly they are in business to pay the stockholders a dividend, not create jobs in Detroit.  I am all for American jobs, and wish companies would keep them here, but that isn't the case most of the time.

 

Buy your Envisions now though, under President Trump any Chinese made auto will have a 5,000% tariff put on it, making the price of an Envision the same as a Bugatti Veyron. 

[oldshurst442]

Thanx in part to Steve for lighting a fuse to a discussion about world economics.

 

Thanx to Hyper and Drew for shedding a new light on a subject that I already was informed on, but I learned a few things on angles I did not consider.

 

Thanx to Casa for always being entertaining and also confirming what I always felt about modern Americans...how illogical their thought process is sometimes...

[Cmicasa the Great]

Yup, and I salivate over the new Lacrosse because of it.

 

$h!, since China is the reason why some of our favorite brands still exist today... we should be thanking them duly for it. They have embraced the American way of excess and capitalism in a heavily regulated and manipulated economy.

 

There's always a bright side to things. 

 

 

China is just another market.. its no savior. Open a real market in non-white markets in Africa and carmakers will be shipping vehicles there and vice-vice versa. In fact.. why so much time is spent catering to the Chinese in terms of investment dollars is beyond me at this point.. U have 1.3 Billion, but there are only 109 million Chinese with wealth of between $50,000 and $500,000. In the U.S.. about 60 Million are in that number.. but we have a population of 320 Million. I don't fear the Chinese.. the Chinese should fear the Chinese. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Thanx in part to Steve for lighting a fuse to a discussion about world economics.

 

Thanx to Hyper and Drew for shedding a new light on a subject that I already was informed on, but I learned a few things on angles I did not consider.

 

Thanx to Casa for always being entertaining and also confirming what I always felt about modern Americans...how illogical their thought process is sometimes...

 

 

Its Truth to beholding. Americans want more jobs.. and a return to unprecedented prosperity??? Stop supporting foreign makes from all industries. 

 

People want to bitch about this Buick taking a few American jobs.. cool.. I get why.. But they need to keep in mind that Americans have a propensity to buy anything that they hear is coming from a foreign land. Its a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

 

Anyone remember the Yugo? How about the Hyundai Excel? It was proven that these were the $h!tiest cars in creation... yet.. Americans still bought the Yugo to the tune of almost 150K units.The Excel?? Well that led to what is now one of the largest vehicle makes selling in the U.S. I won;t even get into the Toyotas.. Datsuns.. Hondas.. VWs that could have been stopped at the shores decades before.. Americans did this this $h! to themselves.. 

 

This was a Yugo.. The Yugo always.. even when coming off the showroom floor looked like this.. Dirty. It was as if the salesmen were told to kick it.. and then rub dirt all over it with a touch of sandpaper to dull the finish.. which was really nothing more than Water-Color paint

 

[hyperv6]

The wealth is China is the fastest and largest growing single market in the world. It has been a savior to this point for many but they still can not only relay on it only hence investment in other markets. In the case of GM it gave them money when they really needed it.

Africa is not much of a bargain. Little money, little growth and so many countries as well as so many unstable countries. Auto makers have examined this market and tried to sort out a cheap car that would fit but it has been difficult at best.

The Chinese market is one that can not be ignored but it also is not a basket to put all your eggs. This is where the globalization has helped as it leverages it out over several markets.

Think of it as a gold mine that is in a earthquake zone. There are some risks but the rewards are easy and anything you get is a bonus. Just make sure to shore up the roof and get out when the if time comes where you need to escape.

Edited January 8, 2016 by hyperv6

[Cmicasa the Great]

The wealth is China is the fastest and largest growing single market in the world. It has been a savior to this point for many but they still can not only relay on it only hence investment in other markets. In the case of GM it gave them money when they really needed it.

Africa is not much of a bargain. Little money, little growth and so many countries as well as so many unstable countries. Auto makers have examined this market and tried to sort out a cheap car that would fit but it has been difficult at best.

The Chinese market is one that can not be ignored but it also is not a basket to put all your eggs. This is where the globalization has helped as it leverages it out over several markets.

 

 

Point is there are other markets.. and essentially how Toyota.. who was in turmoil in China.. has made their nut. GM should exercise the Monroe Doctrine.. put so much product down South, Central America that they want nothing else. OZ??? Pretty much Holden only.. why no Cadillacs??? They Want them. Why no Corvettes or Camaros?? They want them.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

The wealth is China is the fastest and largest growing single market in the world. It has been a savior to this point for many but they still can not only relay on it only hence investment in other markets. In the case of GM it gave them money when they really needed it.

Africa is not much of a bargain. Little money, little growth and so many countries as well as so many unstable countries. Auto makers have examined this market and tried to sort out a cheap car that would fit but it has been difficult at best.

The Chinese market is one that can not be ignored but it also is not a basket to put all your eggs. This is where the globalization has helped as it leverages it out over several markets.

 

 

Point is there are other markets.. and essentially how Toyota.. who was in turmoil in China.. has made their nut. GM should exercise the Monroe Doctrine.. put so much product down South, Central America that they want nothing else. OZ??? Pretty much Holden only.. why no Cadillacs??? They Want them. Why no Corvettes or Camaros?? They want them.

 

 

Costs a lot to re-engineer a car to right-hand drive.  Not economically feasible to do that for cars with such low volumes. They'd have to be able to sell the cars in all markets with RHD, and those other markets aren't really all that friendly to big American cars in the first place (Japan, UK, Bahamas)

[Suaviloquent]

Well, I normally do not deviate into the personal story path...

 

but no joke, every Chinese person I meet, heck even a good friend of mine at the campus 

 

were,are or are wanting to be fanatics for GM and FordMoCo aside from requisite G3 cars.

 

Like every well to do non-pampered folks love the new Malibu, incoming Lacrosse and were suckers for the Fusion as well.

 

And they hate Chinese cars.

 

Those well to do Chinese folks you mentioned Casa - they're the ones buying loaded Buick Centuries and Excelles as well as Ford Foci and the like.

 

They love them some Chevy, and some vintage Pax Americana. Real truth.

[hyperv6]

GM has been in central America and South America for decades and they have targeted those markets even with product we never see.

Toyota wants to do better in China but Japan killed too many Chinese in the war to make it a difficult reception for a company from Japan.

OZ is on the map but not till the next Alpha. It is not that far out but the present model does not support RHD as GM was still rebuilding when they did the Alpha and at the time they did not think it was needed as money was put into other product for North America.

The Corvette may be down under with a C8 not far off. The Camaro will wait a bit.

But even with the RHD the prices will be high and the volumes low.

GM is trying to fix India as it is a growing economy and they were already there but poorly managed. This is where much grow in the next 5-10 years may come from.

The growth in China is still large and if they can manage their economy it will still continue to grow even with the ebb a flow. You have way too many people there that for the first time have some money to spend and now they want to spend it on something. These are the average families as China is really creating a Middle class today. They are in what we saw as the 1910's and still have a long way to go.

The Chinese love American and western products. They can not get enough of them and want more. They also want the real thing not knock offs.

Give these people a taste of the good life and it may hurt their government in ways our government could never leverage. They have a taste of the good life and now they will want more.

Edited January 8, 2016 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

If anyone is wondering about the Chinese stock market, in one report today it was mentioned that it is 80% retail buyers...that is.. individual investors not banks and institutions.

Think about that for a moment while thinking about the wild fluctuations there this week.