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William Maley

Chevrolet News:2018 Chevrolet Corvette To Sport A 6.2L DOHC V8

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It seems dual overhead cams are making a return to the Corvette in one application. A set of GM service documents made their way on to Reddit sometime this morning. In the documents, there is a 6.2L DOHC V8 with LT5 code. Furthermore, the engine application corresponds to the 2018 Corvette. There isn't any indication of forced-induction being used for this engine.

LT5 holds a special place in Corvette history. This was the code used for the only Corvette to ever feature a DOHC V8, the C4 ZR-1. 

What could this engine be used for? The Drive believes this engine could be used for the mid-engine Corvette since it is a break from the traditional. We're wondering if there could be track-special Corvette that could use this engine.

Source: The Drive, Reddit


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It is coming about 2 years sooner than I expected.

With that we may see this in the ZR1 and Z/28?

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Great choice for a high tech mid engine sports car.  It would have been a shame to offer a low revving pushrod V8 in something that demands high revving.  I will guess about 600hp.

 

 

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Well here is the deal. This is needed for Emissions that need to be met. 

But like with DI there is advantages. 

The reality is there will be more than one version here. I expect a supercharged or Turbo to appear. The Zr1 will see 725-750 HP easy with the added down force. 

It is reported that the new Corvette was testing over 1000 Hp but the un named Corvette person said they would only use what they could put down. 

Now considering that private tuners are already hitting 1000 HP with the present engine emissions legal I tend to believe this to be true. Also the Corvette team has always given as much as they can use. They know large numbers mean little if you can't put them down. 

I also ponder will the Z/28 get this also is this a base for the coming DOHC Cadillac engine?

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Finally GM entering modern times with a DOHC V8, but why so large?  Cadillac really could use a DOHC V8, but a 6.2 liter is going to get displacement taxed like crazy in other parts of the world.   You'd think there would have to be a turbo version too, I can't imagine any engine without a turbo by about 2022, save for base model 3 or 4 cylinders in sub $20,000 cars.  

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2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Finally GM entering modern times with a DOHC V8

I HATE THIS ARGUMENT WITH A PASSION!!!!

From wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_camshaft

 

Quote

 

History

Early use

Among the first cars to utilize engines with single overhead camshafts were the Maudslay designed by Alexander Craig and introduced in 1902[39] and the Marr Auto Car designed by Michigan native Walter Lorenzo Marr in 1903.[40][41] The first DOHC car was the 1912 Peugeot which won the French Grand Prix at Dieppe that year. This car was powered by a straight-4 engine designed by Ernest Henry under the guidance of the technically knowledgeable racing drivers Paul Zuccarelli and Georges Boillot. Boillot, who drove the winning car that year, won the French Grand Prix for Peugeot again in 1913 but was beaten in 1914 by the SOHC Mercedes of Christian Lautenschlager.

 

 

From wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_valve_engine

Developments

The overhead valve internal combustion engine was invented in 1898, in Detroit, by bicycle manufacturer Walter Lorenzo Marr, who built a motor-trike that year with a one-cylinder OHV engine with a bore and stroke of 3 inches each.[2] In 1900, Marr was hired as chief engineer at the Buick Auto-Vim and Power Company in Detroit, where he worked until 1902. Marr said he got the idea of overhead valves when making the small tricycle engine, because that was the only way he could get the valves to fit.[3] Marr's engine employed pushrod-actuated rocker arms, which in turn pushed valves parallel to the pistons, and this is still in use today. This contrasts with previous designs which made use of side valves and sleeve valves. Marr left Buick briefly to start his own automobile company in 1902, the Marr Auto-Car, and made a handful of cars with overhead valve engines, before coming back to Buick in 1904. The OHV engine was patented in 1902 (awarded 1904) by Buick's second chief engineer Eugene Richard, at the Buick Manufacturing Company, precursor to the Buick Motor Company. The world's first production overhead valve engine was put into the first production Buick automobile, the 1904 Model B, which used a 2-cylinder Flat twin engine, with 2 valves in each head. The engine was of course designed by Marr.

220px-Valve-In-Head_1904_patent.jpg
 
Valve-In-Head engine, illustration from 1904 patent, Buick Manufacturing Company

Eugene Richard of the Buick Manufacturing Company was awarded US Patent #771,095 in 1904 for the valve in head engine. It included rocker arms and push rods, a water jacket for the head which communicated with the one in the cylinder block, and lifters pushed by a camshaft with a 2-to-1 gearing ratio to the crankshaft. Arthur Chevrolet was awarded US Patent #1,744,526 for an adapter that could be applied to an existing engine, thus transforming it into an Overhead Valve Engine.

In 1949, Oldsmobile introduced the Rocket V8. It was the first high-compression I-head design, and is the archetype for most modern pushrod engines. General Motors is the world's largest pushrod engine producer,[citation needed] producing both I4, V6 and V8 pushrod engines.


 

 

 

 

 

MODERN?

What do you mean by modern?

This is such a tired argument.

Only non-car people are allowed to have that opinion of OHC engines being more  modern...

Leaving aside all the state of the art tech behind the GM V8s...I dont ever want to hear this argument from anybody in an automotive forum...EVER!

 

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I know OHC has been around forever.  Perhaps then my argument would have been better said by saying Finally GM joining the rest of the world in offering a DOHC V8.  Because all the European and Japanese luxury car and performance car companies use DOHC.

 

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Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean GM has to. I like their pushrod V8s, I have no problem with them offering both.  Pushrod has some distinct advantages over DOHC for packaging.   Yes, DOHC may get more horsepower per liter, but pushrod can stuff a lot more liters in there.... and with GM's technology of being able to shut off cylinders, they can get a lot of the efficiency of those smaller displacement engines as well. 

This DOHC 6.2 sounds like it will be great, but that doesn't change the fact that anywhere this engine fits, a S/C pushrod 7.5 - 8 liter would also fit.

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This is obviously going to go into a mid-engine Corvette. 

The ZR1 is far too along for it to be receiving this engine. It just doesn't make sense. That said, I do wonder if they would put this in anything other than  a Corvette. I can't see it going in the Z/28 due to cost, but I could see Caddy getting this in a few models.

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2 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

This is obviously going to go into a mid-engine Corvette. 

The ZR1 is far too along for it to be receiving this engine. It just doesn't make sense. That said, I do wonder if they would put this in anything other than  a Corvette. I can't see it going in the Z/28 due to cost, but I could see Caddy getting this in a few models.

Priced a Z/28?

Coul be under the zr1 hood now. Have you heard one?

This is not a case of doing this beuse everyone else is. This is a case of if you want to meet future emissions you will have to do this.

The flexibility of the timing and extra valves make for more power and  better emissions. 

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Vette deserves this, and maybe a big Cadillac eventually too.  Not sure a CT6 will accept it, seeing as how this engine is probably twice as big as the 3.0L currently.  They may have planned for it though. But a bespoke engine that will sound and feel far different than any other currently offered by GM, is a welcome addition and I bet many customers are probably craving it.  There simply is no V8 sound as good as a DOHC.  

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The agree it has more to do emissions, economy and power delivery than it does packaging.  A lot of cars have excess space under the hood anyway.   If packaging was the main priority they could put a 3 liter V6 that revs to 8,000 rpm or something that was more power dense.  Plus you have Lambos and Ferraris with V12s, I don't think space is a big concern.

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29 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The agree it has more to do emissions, economy and power delivery than it does packaging.  A lot of cars have excess space under the hood anyway.   If packaging was the main priority they could put a 3 liter V6 that revs to 8,000 rpm or something that was more power dense.  Plus you have Lambos and Ferraris with V12s, I don't think space is a big concern.

Having DOHC grows it a bit in width and very slightly vertically.  No problem at all for a mid mount that does not have to worry about hood clearances.  The more I think about this, the more impressed I am with GM's decision.  

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4 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

Vette deserves this, and maybe a big Cadillac eventually too.  Not sure a CT6 will accept it, seeing as how this engine is probably twice as big as the 3.0L currently.  They may have planned for it though. But a bespoke engine that will sound and feel far different than any other currently offered by GM, is a welcome addition and I bet many customers are probably craving it.  There simply is no V8 sound as good as a DOHC.  

The CT6 already is slated to have a twin-turbo dohc V8 of around 4 to 5 liters. I doubt getting it to 6.2 without a turbo would be that hard.

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You don't need 6.2 liters though, if you can't get 500 hp from 4 liters you are doing something wrong.   You can get 600 hp from 4 liters, even.  If one were so inclined they could get 1,000 hp from a 1.6 liter V6 hybrid.

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8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

You don't need 6.2 liters though, if you can't get 500 hp from 4 liters you are doing something wrong.   You can get 600 hp from 4 liters, even.  If one were so inclined they could get 1,000 hp from a 1.6 liter V6 hybrid.

Sure, if you spin it to 18,000 rpm, but you still have no torque.

And no one is getting 500hp from 4 liters unless there is some forced breathing going on, so as soon as you do that you have additional complications and weight. 

A 6.2 liter will have awesome torque off the line while a turbo 4 liter is still waiting to spool up.

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Expect the new DOHC to easily exceed 750HP. There is ZERO reason to push one out that doesn't considering the cost. The current LT4 can hit 700 with changes made by a shade tree mechanic.

The Caddy DOHC engine will probably be in the 550HP 

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GM should completely bias this engine for hp, not torque.  I think that is why they are switching to a high revving valve train that can handle it, without going with ridiculously expensive titanium rods.  Now I am not saying it does not need torque, but as light as the vette is, it certainly don't need more than say.....550ftlbs.  It needs to breathe and spin to about 7500rpm's, and a realistic hp of about 650.  Sorry casa, no way will it hit 750hp, and still be an easy car to live with daily and manage decent fuel economy.  And yes, all that matters.

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3 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

GM should completely bias this engine for hp, not torque.  I think that is why they are switching to a high revving valve train that can handle it, without going with ridiculously expensive titanium rods.  Now I am not saying it does not need torque, but as light as the vette is, it certainly don't need more than say.....550ftlbs.  It needs to breathe and spin to about 7500rpm's, and a realistic hp of about 650.  Sorry casa, no way will it hit 750hp, and still be an easy car to live with daily and manage decent fuel economy.  And yes, all that matters.

For the mid engine car, absolutely, should be geared towards HP... But I'd like to see a torquer version, lower top rpm but thicker torque band that starts lower, for use in the Escalade and possibly the CT6.

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1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

For the mid engine car, absolutely, should be geared towards HP... But I'd like to see a torquer version, lower top rpm but thicker torque band that starts lower, for use in the Escalade and possibly the CT6.

Although OHV absolutely does not mean more torque than OHC, I just don't see bothering with a high revving DOHC in a low revving truck application that is all about torque down low. There should be some bespoke-ness to it as well.  Start throwing it into everything, and you optimize it for nothing.

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21 hours ago, Wings4Life said:

There simply is no V8 sound as good as a DOHC.  

1. Let me first wish you Merry Xmas in Greek.

KalaXrist.gif

2. Im quite neutral with what you have said, In agreement even with 99.99% of what you wrote, but you know me, I MUST find something you said to pick on!!! Yes, even on XMAS day...even when I have a house full of family and friends!

That quote up above....

 

THIS ONE:

Quote

There simply is no V8 sound as good as a DOHC.  

 

UMMMM....NO!!!!

Although DOHC V8s do sound good....you my dear friend...you come from Detroit even. You my friend, even has a MOPAR...

Let me demonstrate:

 

So....

 

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    • By William Maley
      It seems a bit odd to be driving the Giulia Ti almost half a year on from spending a week high-performance Quadrifoglio. This felt like I had a nice slice of cake and was now facing a bowl of vegetables. Trying to keep an open mind on Ti was going to be difficult, considering the mixed opinions I had with the first Giulia. But I knew that I had to try.
      I actually prefer the toned-down nature of Ti Sport compared to Quadrifoglio as lacks the aggressive bumper treatment and cloverleaf emblems on the fenders. Some items such as the uniquely styled wheels do carry over and add a small sporting touch. The only item I would change is the color. Grey just makes the design somewhat boring. The blue I had on the Quadrifoglio works much better as it allows the design to stand out. The interior is still very much a mixed affair. Most of the materials are what you would expect to find a luxury car of this caliber with soft-touch plastics, leather, and metal trim. But Alfa clearly cut some corners such as the cheap plastics used on the center console. The front sport seats provide excellent bolstering and comfort for any adventure you decide to take. Rear space is almost non-existent for most adults. Alfa Romeo did address one of my complaints with that I had with 2017 Giulia. 2018 models now have the option of Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. It is shame that it is an option, but it does make using infotainment system somewhat less frustrating. Some of the issues I had with the system in both the Giulia Quadrifoglio and Stelvio Ti are present in this Giulia. Going through a number of menus to accomplish simple tasks, slow performance, and a small number of crashes during my weeklong test. I really hope Alfa Romeo is working on some updates to get this system in order. Power comes from a turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder delivering 280 horsepower and 306 pound-feet of torque. This is paired with an eight-speed automatic and optional Q4 all-wheel drive. I really liked this engine in the Stevlio as moved the compact crossover without breaking a sweat. In the Giulia, this engine makes this sedan fly away from stops. It is said the turbo-four can hit 60 mph in just over five seconds, which is fast for the class. One disappointment is the engine sounding like a diesel at idle, not something you want to have in an Italian sport sedan. EPA says the Giulia Ti with AWD will return 23 City/31 Highway/26 Combined. My average for the week landed around 23.6 in mostly city driving. One trait that both the Ti Sport and Quadrifoglio share is the handling. The chassis underneath allows the Giulia to dart around in the corners and keep body motions well in check. Steering is another bright spot where the vehicle would instantly respond to any input, along with provide good feedback. Ride quality is slightly better than the Quadrifoglio as only a small number of bumps come inside. Put the Giulia into Dynamic (sport mode) and the ride does become somewhat unbearable. Unfortunately, my Giulia Ti tester had an issue with the brakes. Whenever the brakes were applied, there was a noticeable screeching noise coming the rear of the vehicle. At first, I thought something had gotten lodged in the brakes. But the noise would go away after I had been driving for a bit. Park the car for awhile and drive it once again, the noise would return. This likely hints at something being warped - a bit disappointing for a vehicle that only had a few thousand miles on the odometer. The Giulia is one of those vehicles I really want to like a lot more than I currently do. Alfa Romeo still has a number of issues they need to address sooner than later. I only would recommend this model for those who understand what they’re getting into. Gallery: 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q4
      Disclaimer: Alfa Romeo Provided the Giulia, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2018
      Make: Alfa Romeo
      Model: Giulia
      Trim: Ti Sport Q4
      Engine: 2.0L Turbocharged MultiAir SOHC Inline-Four
      Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, All-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 280 @ 5,200
      Torque @ RPM: 306 @ 2,000 - 4,800
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 23/31/26
      Curb Weight: N/A
      Location of Manufacture: Cassino, Italy
      Base Price: $41,995
      As Tested Price: $51,885 (Includes $1,295 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Ti Sport AWD Package 22S - $2,500.00
      Driver Assist Dynamic Plus Package - $1,500.00
      Ti Leather Package - $995.00
      8.8-inch AM/FM Bluetooth Radio with 3D Nav - $950.00
      Harman/Kardon Premium Audio System - $900.00
      Driver Assistance Static Package - $650.00
      Vesuvio Gray Metallic - $600.00
      19-inch x 8-inch Bright 5-Hole Aluminum Wheels - $500.00
    • By William Maley
      Last year, I had the chance to spend a week in a Fiat 124 Spider Abarth. While I found it to offer improved handling and a somewhat nicer interior over the Mazda MX-5 Miata it is based on, there were a few items that kept me from saying it was better - mainly the turbo engine and exterior design. A couple of months ago, I found myself in another 124 Spider. This time, it was the Lusso which drops a fair amount of the aggression from the Abarth, along with providing a softer suspension tune. Would this model be able to change my tune?
      The Lusso is the polar opposite to the Abarth I drove last year in terms of looks. It is toned down with the removal of the aggressive bumpers and quad-tip exhausts. The end result is a much cleaner look. I just wished Fiat could have done more to the rear end as it still looks a bit out of place with the rest of the design. This particular Lusso is the Red Top Edition which as the name suggests has a red soft-top. I will admit this does add a touch of personality and helps the 124 Spider stand out. Not much has changed with the interior since our last review. Getting in and out is still a bit tough due to the low ride height and anyone over six-feet will feel quite cramped. The overall design is the same as the MX-5 Miata, with slight differences to the steering wheel and instrument cluster to make it slightly more Fiat-ish. Material quality is slightly higher than the Mazda, with more soft-touch materials. One issue I did discover in this go-around is the location of the 12-volt outlet. It is mounted deep in the passenger footwell, almost near the engine firewall. Finding it was not a pleasant experience as I needed to pull out my phone to act as a flashlight to find the stupid thing. Power comes from the turbocharged 1.4L MultiAir four-cylinder. Compared to the Abarth, the Lusso loses four horsepower. This is due to a more restrictive exhaust. My tester came with the optional six-speed automatic. I wish that I could say Fiat solved the engine issued I mentioned in the previous review, but they have not. The turbo engine still feels laggy on the low-end of the rpm band. Plus, the automatic transmission is tuned to quickly upshift to improve fuel economy. This leaves you without any turbo boost when you want it. I keep thinking that the six-speed manual would be slightly better as it would me control when it is time to shift, allowing the engine to be fully exploited. One trait that sets the 124 Spider apart from its Miata brethren is the suspension tuning. Fiat decided to go with a softer tune on most models - the Abarth is the exception as it gets a stiffer suspension setup. The difference is noticeable as the 124 Spider provides a slightly smoother ride than the Miata. This softening doesn’t change the handling dynamics of the Spider. It still darts into turns with minimal body roll and fast steering. The Lusso Red Top Edition sits as the flagship of the 2018 124 Spider lineup with a base price of $31,440. This comes equipped with a number of options such backup camera, Bose audio system, navigation, and heated seats as standard equipment. With destination, this vehicle comes to an as-tested price of $32,435. The Lusso model may be the sweet spot in the 124 Spider lineup as it offers a slightly smoother ride and improved interior. But Fiat still needs to address the performance of the turbo-four. It is a great alternative to the MX-5 Miata, but not better. Gallery: 2018 Fiat 124 Spider Lusso
      Disclaimer: Fiat Provided the 124 Spider, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2018
      Make: Fiat
      Model: 124 Spider
      Trim: Lusso
      Engine: 1.4L MultiAir SOHC 16-Valve Four-Cylinder
      Driveline: Six-Speed Automatic, Rear-Wheel Drive 
      Horsepower @ RPM: 160 @ 5,500
      Torque @ RPM: 184 @ 3,200
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 25/36/29
      Curb Weight: 2,476 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Hiroshima, Japan
      Base Price: $27,595
      As Tested Price: $32,435 (Includes $995.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Red Top Edition Package 22T - $2,495.00
      Red Top Edition Package 2DT - $1,350.00

      View full article
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