October 2017: General Motors Co.

[William Maley]

For the First Time Since 2011, GM’s Retail Market Share Tops 17 Percent for Three Consecutive Months

DETROIT — General Motors (NYSE: GM) today reported 252,813 deliveries in the United States in October.

• Pickup deliveries totaled 84,902 units, up 9 percent year over year, led by the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra.
• Crossover deliveries totaled 82,235 units, up 12 percent year over year, driven by the highest October sales ever for five different models: the Chevrolet Equinox and Traverse, the GMC Acadia and the Buick Encore and Enclave.
• Combined Cadillac SRX and XT5 sales were up 17 percent.
• The Chevrolet Bolt EV and Buick Encore had their best months ever.
• Combined Commercial and Government deliveries were up 10 percent year over year, and 11 percent calendar year to date.

Selling-day adjusted sales were up 2 percent. Total sales were down 2 percent, reflecting lower passenger cars deliveries and one fewer selling day year over year.

Retail Share Momentum

Exceptionally strong crossover deliveries at Chevrolet, Buick and Cadillac helped the company achieve an estimated retail market share of 17 percent or more for the third consecutive month. The last time GM delivered three consecutive months at or above a 17 percent retail share was July-September 2011.

Three crossovers reported massive year-over-year retail sales increases for the month: the Chevrolet Traverse was up 59 percent, the Chevrolet Equinox was up 22 percent and the Buick Enclave was up 75 percent. The GMC Sierra pickup also posted a large 23 percent increase in retail sales.

“We are heading into the fourth quarter with good momentum, thanks to a strong U.S. economy and very strong pickup and crossover sales. In fact, Chevrolet and GMC have some of the fastest-turning crossovers in the industry,” said Kurt McNeil, U.S. vice president of Sales Operations. “The all-new Chevrolet Equinox is off to a great start and we could have sold even more if we had more available. We also see tremendous upside with the launches of the 2018 GMC Terrain, Chevrolet Traverse and Buick Enclave. They are arriving in showrooms at the same time consumer confidence is at its highest level since 2000. Small business optimism has also stayed very high since last fall, and that bodes well for pickup and van sales.”

Customer demand for trucks and crossovers, combined with incentive spending discipline, is driving strong average transaction prices (ATP) for GM vehicles. GM’s October ATPs, which are net of incentive spending, were more than $36,000, about $1,000 per unit higher than the third quarter average.

The GMC brand, which grew total and retail sales during the month, had its highest ATPs ever, driven by the success of Denali models, which reached 30 percent of retail sales.

Supplemental Data

• GM reduced month-end inventory from September and is on track to close 2017 with significantly fewer vehicles in stock than in December 2016.
• Daily rental sales in 2017 are expected to be down about 50,000 units year over year.
• GM’s October incentive spending as a percent of ATP was an estimated 13.5 percent, according to JD Power PIN estimates, down from the third quarter estimate of 13.7 percent. Spending is down about one percentage point from September.

[ccap41]

I'm surprised to see the Trax, a CUV, down... especially because of the refresh last year(?)

[David]

Another Solid Month for the BOLT!  

[Cmicasa the Great]

5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I'm surprised to see the Trax, a CUV, down... especially because of the refresh last year(?)

I wouldn't doubt that the Nox and Bolt stole some of its sales. In truth.. the Bolt is a bonafide hit at this point.. and the the Equinox has been since 2010

[smk4565]

I think if the Bolt looked better it would sell better.  If the Bolt looked like an Impala sedan or Equinox they would sell 10,000 a month.   

I wonder how many XTS sales are fleet sales?  Maybe Lincoln is getting out of the livery business?  Because Regal and Lacrosse are new and down 40% And the 3 Cadillac sedans newer than XTS are down near 40%. Yet the XTS was up big.

[frogger]

7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I'm surprised to see the Trax, a CUV, down... especially because of the refresh last year(?)

Could be because the # of subcompact CUV's available now is way up?

 

42 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think if the Bolt looked better it would sell better.  If the Bolt looked like an Impala sedan or Equinox they would sell 10,000 a month.   

I wonder how many XTS sales are fleet sales?  Maybe Lincoln is getting out of the livery business?  Because Regal and Lacrosse are new and down 40% And the 3 Cadillac sedans newer than XTS are down near 40%. Yet the XTS was up big.

A Bolt or Volt Equinox would sell huge I would think.  Maybe they don't want to lose money if they are losing on every Bolt sold, are waiting a few more years for battery tech to be cheaper.

 

 

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think if the Bolt looked better it would sell better.  If the Bolt looked like an Impala sedan or Equinox they would sell 10,000 a month.   

I wonder how many XTS sales are fleet sales?  Maybe Lincoln is getting out of the livery business?  Because Regal and Lacrosse are new and down 40% And the 3 Cadillac sedans newer than XTS are down near 40%. Yet the XTS was up big.

I agree. GM really should go all in on the Bolt's lead at this point. Bring it to Tesla via Chevy and Buick... onward to Caddy. JDN already said Cadillac will have an Electric out in a year. Buick is the next one to get an EV.. and its a Bolt based CUV. A Malibu that skips the Hybrid.. and goes straight to EV would put Tesla on the truck. A Buick Regal EV would "CRASH that truck" and send it up in smoke with the Tesla.. LOL.. again in flames.

BTW.. do a search and U will see that the new REGAL is not being sold yet so that comment is pointless. 

speaking of Tesla... http://www.autonews.com reports that they:

Tesla posts record $671 million loss in Q3

Tesla posted a $671 million loss for the third quarter -- dropping from a $22 million net profit a year earlier -- as the electric-vehicle maker continued to struggle producing the mass-market Model 3.

[surreal1272]

17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think if the Bolt looked better it would sell better.  If the Bolt looked like an Impala sedan or Equinox they would sell 10,000 a month.   

I wonder how many XTS sales are fleet sales?  Maybe Lincoln is getting out of the livery business?  Because Regal and Lacrosse are new and down 40% And the 3 Cadillac sedans newer than XTS are down near 40%. Yet the XTS was up big.

The Bolt was the top selling EV last month and is in second place for the year (with a limited roll out to start off for most of the year). It is doing just fine despite your naysaying about its looks. Maybe this on the hood would improve it looks?

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

22 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think if the Bolt looked better it would sell better.  If the Bolt looked like an Impala sedan or Equinox they would sell 10,000 a month.   

I wonder how many XTS sales are fleet sales?  Maybe Lincoln is getting out of the livery business?  Because Regal and Lacrosse are new and down 40% And the 3 Cadillac sedans newer than XTS are down near 40%. Yet the XTS was up big.

New Regal isn't even out yet and old Regal is out of production already. My Buick dealer has a single previous gen Regal in stock new

There are no Cadillac sedans newer than the XTS. As of August, the XTS is the one with the most recent refresh. I've seen a number of them on the road already. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Drew Dowdell
Edited my first sentence for clarity

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

The Bolt was the top selling EV last month and is in second place for the year (with a limited roll out to start off for most of the year). It is doing just fine despite your naysaying about its looks. Maybe this on the hood would improve it looks?

 

 

No, if the Bolt was a mid-size sedan or a small crossover it would sell 5 times better than a compact hatchback.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

New Regal isn't even out yet and old Regal is out of production already. My Buick dealer has a single new Regal in stock.

There are no Cadillac sedans newer than the XTS. As of August, the XTS is the one with the most recent refresh. I've seen a number of them on the road already. 

I did wonder if the new Regal was on sale, but I doubt the new one sells any better than the old one did.  I have yet to see a refreshed XTS on the road, but even still, that is a car that goes back to 2012, it has to have a lot of fleet sales to move over 2,000 a month.  Unless the 900 unit drop on LaCrosse all went to XTS.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I did wonder if the new Regal was on sale, but I doubt the new one sells any better than the old one did.  I have yet to see a refreshed XTS on the road, but even still, that is a car that goes back to 2012, it has to have a lot of fleet sales to move over 2,000 a month.  Unless the 900 unit drop on LaCrosse all went to XTS.

I don't follow your logic. Why can't the car just be selling well? Why does 2,000 a month have to be mostly fleet?  You can't seem to get over the fact that there are lots of people who buy cars who don't think like you. 

The XTS is a big, comfortable, luxury sedan with a V6 for around $50k.  Can't get a 6-cylinder in a Benz, BMW, or Audi for that price. You can't get the space or luxury features from the Germans for that price. For many (including me), the smoothness of a V6 outweighs any raw performance that some overboosted turbo-4 might provide.  In the $50k - $60k range, the XTS is easily a better deal than any of the germans and the only reason to go with them is badge snobbery. 

$55k gets you 

XTS Luxury AWD = 304hp, 264 lb-ft V6, AWD, leather seats, android auto, apple car play, embedded NAV, heated and cooled seats, heated rear seats, heated steering wheel, keyless entry and start

E300 4Matic = 241hp, 273 lb-ft, 4-cylinder, AWD, Plastic seats, Android Auto is N/A, Apple Car Play is N/A (that I can find), embedded NAV, heated and cooled seats are extra cost ($450),  heated steering wheel is extra cost ($250), keyless entry and start is extra cost (part of a $3,700 package).

The driver awareness package at Cadillac is $1,700 while the equivalent package at Benz is $3700. 

So, for anyone who runs the numbers instead of just blindly signing any 3-pointed star embossed piece of paper, the XTS is a better car for the price.  

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I don't follow your logic. Why can't the car just be selling well? Why does 2,000 a month have to be mostly fleet?  You can't seem to get over the fact that there are lots of people who buy cars who don't think like you. 

The XTS is a big, comfortable, luxury sedan with a V6 for around $50k.  Can't get a 6-cylinder in a Benz, BMW, or Audi for that price. You can't get the space or luxury features from the Germans for that price. For many (including me), the smoothness of a V6 outweighs any raw performance that some overboosted turbo-4 might provide.  In the $50k - $60k range, the XTS is easily a better deal than any of the germans and the only reason to go with them is badge snobbery. 

$55k gets you 

XTS Luxury AWD = 304hp, 264 lb-ft V6, AWD, leather seats, android auto, apple car play, embedded NAV, heated and cooled seats, heated rear seats, heated steering wheel, keyless entry and start

E300 4Matic = 241hp, 273 lb-ft, 4-cylinder, AWD, Plastic seats, Android Auto is N/A, Apple Car Play is N/A (that I can find), embedded NAV, heated and cooled seats are extra cost ($450),  heated steering wheel is extra cost ($250), keyless entry and start is extra cost (part of a $3,700 package).

The driver awareness package at Cadillac is $1,700 while the equivalent package at Benz is $3700. 

So, for anyone who runs the numbers instead of just blindly signing any 3-pointed star embossed piece of paper, the XTS is a better car for the price.  

I get that some want space and features, so in that comparison the XTS makes sense to them.  You can get a V6, space and heated/cooled seats in a LaCrosse at $40k also, but people want the Cadillac badge or upgraded interior trim, just as people will pay more for a German car due to individual buyer preferences.

But the XTS averaged 1400 sales a month last year, and is down 20% this year which is about 1100 a month, so to hit 2,200 in one month seems odd unless there was a fleet deal is all I am saying.  

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

No, if the Bolt was a mid-size sedan or a small crossover it would sell 5 times better than a compact hatchback.

I did wonder if the new Regal was on sale, but I doubt the new one sells any better than the old one did.  I have yet to see a refreshed XTS on the road, but even still, that is a car that goes back to 2012, it has to have a lot of fleet sales to move over 2,000 a month.  Unless the 900 unit drop on LaCrosse all went to XTS.

I am of a different opinion on that one. I thinking that GM/Buick may have just pulled a heck of a smart move with the SportBack and TourX. It would seem that Buick is essentially taking some of Saab's configs and making it their own (Finally).. while at the same time yanking a bunch of configs from Subaru. 

Encore (9-2), Envision (9-4), Enclave (9-7), Regal TourX (Sportcombi anyone?), SportBack (9-3), Lacrosse (9-5), and Cascada (9-3 Vert) .. then the upcoming EV CUV based on the Bolt. Almost all now in AWD configs

[Drew Dowdell]

37 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I get that some want space and features, so in that comparison the XTS makes sense to them.  You can get a V6, space and heated/cooled seats in a LaCrosse at $40k also, but people want the Cadillac badge or upgraded interior trim, just as people will pay more for a German car due to individual buyer preferences.

But the XTS averaged 1400 sales a month last year, and is down 20% this year which is about 1100 a month, so to hit 2,200 in one month seems odd unless there was a fleet deal is all I am saying.  

The 2017 ended production back in May/June and the 2018 entered production in late August.  Sales blips like that happen all the time during a model change over. 

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

No, if the Bolt was a mid-size sedan or a small crossover it would sell 5 times better than a compact hatchback.

I did wonder if the new Regal was on sale, but I doubt the new one sells any better than the old one did.  I have yet to see a refreshed XTS on the road, but even still, that is a car that goes back to 2012, it has to have a lot of fleet sales to move over 2,000 a month.  Unless the 900 unit drop on LaCrosse all went to XTS.

I honestly think that Lacrosse buyers don't like the new car.  I know I am not all that excited about it.  I much prefered both of the prior generations of Lacrosse.  The new one checks all the right boxes on paper, but visually does not have the presence of the prior two models. 

As for the new Regal, I think it will do better than the prior one did, but it will never be a super hot seller. The GS looks promising... and oddly... my partner specifically wants the GS. Not for any performance characteristics, but because he wants another Buick and he wants massaging seats. I'm leaning towards Volvo myself, but if he really wants a GS, that's what I'll get I guess. 

[balthazar]

On 11/1/2017 at 4:41 PM, smk4565 said:

I think if the Bolt looked better it would sell better.  If the Bolt looked like an Impala sedan or Equinox they would sell 10,000 a month.

Bolt's sales rate has nothing to so with it's styling; the buyers are buying an EV.
There are a bunch of PHEV sedans out there to chose from, some might well argue they generally 'look better', but no one is REMOTELY close to moving 10K per month. MB can't GIVE theirs away. And even Tesla can't move 4000 Model S's/mn.

It's not the Bolt's styling (which is fine). PHEVs are in another demographic segment altogether.

Edited November 2, 2017 by balthazar

[smk4565]

40 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Bolt's sales rate has nothing to so with it's styling; the buyers are buying an EV.
There are a bunch of PHEV sedans out there to chose from, some might well argue they generally 'look better', but no one is REMOTELY close to moving 10K per month. MB can't GIVE theirs away. And even Tesla can't move 4000 Model S's/mn.

It's not the Bolt's styling (which is fine). PHEVs are in another demographic segment altogether.

The Model S costs near $100,000, if the Bolt at $40k was a sedan, sales would go up big.  And I know this because Tesla has 400,000 people waiting to buy a Model 3 sedan, imagine if someone else put a $40k EV sedan out now, they could clean up.  Mercedes is missing the boat here too, they are 2 years away from an electric crossover and sedan hitting the market.

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

I am of a different opinion on that one. I thinking that GM/Buick may have just pulled a heck of a smart move with the SportBack and TourX. It would seem that Buick is essentially taking some of Saab's configs and making it their own (Finally).. while at the same time yanking a bunch of configs from Subaru. 

Encore (9-2), Envision (9-4), Enclave (9-7), Regal TourX (Sportcombi anyone?), SportBack (9-3), Lacrosse (9-5), and Cascada (9-3 Vert) .. then the upcoming EV CUV based on the Bolt. Almost all now in AWD configs

That is true, but then again Saab didn't do too well.  I do like offering a different body style than just a 3 box sedan or a cookie cutter crossover.  I don't think the Regal will sell well because of how it is priced, the GS is $40k, and there are V6 sedans with more power than it for $30k.  And it is a crossover world, same deal, there are V6 crossovers for Regal money that people will flock to.

[Drew Dowdell]

It doesn't have to be a big seller in the US.  The US is just gravy. They'll sell 3 to 4 times as many of them in China. 

[smk4565]

37 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It doesn't have to be a big seller in the US.  The US is just gravy. They'll sell 3 to 4 times as many of them in China. 

Well yeah, they all do.  Audi sells like 600,000 cars a year in China.  I think the A6 sells 15,000 units a month there vs like 1,500 a month in the USA.

[Cmicasa the Great]

7 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 

I honestly think that Lacrosse buyers don't like the new car.  I know I am not all that excited about it.  I much prefered both of the prior generations of Lacrosse.  The new one checks all the right boxes on paper, but visually does not have the presence of the prior two models. 

I am of the opinion that the new LaX is worlds better looking than the FIRST gen.. but not as sexy as the previous. The crazy part about that is that it really reminds me of the Impala.. in so many ways, yet still lacks the pizzazz of the Chevy. The Impala is a luxury car. It looks luxury.. and for the money, in terms of looks, it triumphs over or equals everything in the large FWD category before U get to actual bonafide luxo cars. The LaX is beautiful too.. and has more features than the Impala.. but looks like it is a watered down version of it. The previous model was unique.. and played heavy on the INVICTA concept that came before it. Another thing is that GM.. like so many times before.. had the world salivating over a concept.. this time the Avenir.. and then gave us a "everyday car." If GM would release just the Concepts from the last 5 years:

Avenir, Avista, Riviera, El Miraj, Ciel, Escala... they would instantly be in charge of all of Luxury Cardom 

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

That is true, but then again Saab didn't do too well.  I do like offering a different body style than just a 3 box sedan or a cookie cutter crossover.  I don't think the Regal will sell well because of how it is priced, the GS is $40k, and there are V6 sedans with more power than it for $30k.  And it is a crossover world, same deal, there are V6 crossovers for Regal money that people will flock to.

Saab, like Saturn, was always a NICHE brand.. a hobby for GM after the acquisition/creation in '90. It was redundant too and GM should have gotten rid of them or went full in.. waaay before.. and I loved Saab and Saturn, but there were always brands within that could have done the same things better. Saturn was created to deter people from buying Asian makes.. No one thought at the time.. "why not just use all this money, billions, to make better Chevys, Buicks, Pontiacs, Caddys, and GMCs?"  Saab on the other hand had a decent business in Europe. .and along with Opel/Vaux gave GM a nice foothold in Europe

[smk4565]

11 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Saab, like Saturn, was always a NICHE brand.. a hobby for GM after the acquisition/creation in '90. It was redundant too and GM should have gotten rid of them or went full in.. waaay before.. and I loved Saab and Saturn, but there were always brands within that could have done the same things better. Saturn was created to deter people from buying Asian makes.. No one thought at the time.. "why not just use all this money, billions, to make better Chevys, Buicks, Pontiacs, Caddys, and GMCs?"  Saab on the other hand had a decent business in Europe. .and along with Opel/Vaux gave GM a nice foothold in Europe

I like Saab as a car, my mom had a 2002 9-5 Aero that was a great car until it got horribly unreliable around 75k miles and she got rid of it after it being towed 3 times in 1 year.

And yes they should have made better Chevy's and Buicks to fight off the Japanese.  But all that being in the past, GM still has some of the same problems.  Buick sedans don't sell anymore, they will probably be a crossover only brand in the USA once their Opel tie is gone and the LWB epsilon platform is killed.

[Cmicasa the Great]

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I like Saab as a car, my mom had a 2002 9-5 Aero that was a great car until it got horribly unreliable around 75k miles and she got rid of it after it being towed 3 times in 1 year.

And yes they should have made better Chevy's and Buicks to fight off the Japanese.  But all that being in the past, GM still has some of the same problems.  Buick sedans don't sell anymore, they will probably be a crossover only brand in the USA once their Opel tie is gone and the LWB epsilon platform is killed.

Looking at the numbers almost no sedans sell if a comparably price CUV is on the lot next to it. Same problems??? GM is currently making some of the best vehicles in the world.. 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 11/2/2017 at 7:22 PM, smk4565 said:

The Model S costs near $100,000, if the Bolt at $40k was a sedan, sales would go up big.  And I know this because Tesla has 400,000 people waiting to buy a Model 3 sedan, imagine if someone else put a $40k EV sedan out now, they could clean up.  Mercedes is missing the boat here too, they are 2 years away from an electric crossover and sedan hitting the market.

So now the guy who says everything needs to be a crossover and nothing needs to be a sedan says the Bolt needs to be a Sedan.

Could someone in Pennsylvania check to see if the Pittsburgh water system has been contaminated with Lead from Flint Michigan?

On 11/3/2017 at 3:49 PM, Cmicasa the Great said:

Looking at the numbers almost no sedans sell if a comparably price CUV is on the lot next to it. Same problems??? GM is currently making some of the best vehicles in the world.. 

Quoted for Truth.

[Drew Dowdell]

4 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

So now the guy who says everything needs to be a crossover and nothing needs to be a sedan says the Bolt needs to be a Sedan.

Could someone in Pennsylvania check to see if the Pittsburgh water system has been contaminated with Lead from Flint Michigan?

Now now, he does have a point.  Crossovers sell better than sedans, but sedans sell better than small hatchbacks. 

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Now now, he does have a point.  Crossovers sell better than sedans, but sedans sell better than small hatchbacks. 

Vehicles like the Honda  HRV are all the rage...I would argue the Bolt is similar enough to that...

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

Vehicles like the Honda  HRV are all the rage...I would argue the Bolt is similar enough to that...

No AWD, lower seating position... the Bolt is more like the Fit.  The Fit is the best seller in the segment, but the Civic blows it away in sales. 

[A Horse With No Name]

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

No AWD, lower seating position... the Bolt is more like the Fit.  The Fit is the best seller in the segment, but the Civic blows it away in sales. 

Rational enough.  Bolt is also much better looking than  the Fit and offers a lot that the Fit doesn't...it's also twice the price...

[balthazar]

Bolt is an EV first, and a hatch 2nd.
Model S is also a hatchback.

[ccap41]

Just now, balthazar said:

Model S is also a hatchback

Semi-off-topic..

I understand that it technically is but I hate how that's considered a hatchback. That along with the new Civic and whatever Audi has a "Sportback" trim as well.  Yes, the back end opens up like a hatch but the shape just isn't stereotypical hatchback to me! 

Sorry,

Rant: Over.

[Robert Hall]

19 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Semi-off-topic..

I understand that it technically is but I hate how that's considered a hatchback. That along with the new Civic and whatever Audi has a "Sportback" trim as well.  Yes, the back end opens up like a hatch but the shape just isn't stereotypical hatchback to me! 

Sorry,

Rant: Over.

Hmm...have you ever seen '70s-80s hatchbacks?  The new Civic, the A7, Regal, etc have a slanted rear window profile like the Rover SD1/3500, Vega, Monza, Nova, Citation, and many others...hatchbacks don't have to have a near-vertical rear end like a wagon, SUV, or Golf, only an upward opening portal that includes the rear window, a folding rear seat, and no separation to the cargo area..

 

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Cmicasa the Great]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Now now, he does have a point.  Crossovers sell better than sedans, but sedans sell better than small hatchbacks. 

Not...not necessarily. And make no mistake.. I love the Bolt.. but I still believe until the infrastructure is truly in place.. the Volt(CT6 Hybrid), and VOLTECH is a better choice for an every day car for those who commute and live in apts. I do believe that the Volt should have an option to be BOLTECH, just like I think the Malibu Hybrid should have a Plug option too

[ccap41]

43 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Hmm...have you ever seen '70s-80s hatchbacks?  The new Civic, the A7, Regal, etc have a slanted rear window profile like the Rover SD1/3500, Vega, Monza, Nova, Citation, and many others...hatchbacks don't have to have a near-vertical rear end like a wagon, SUV, or Golf, only an upward opening portal that includes the rear window, a folding rear seat, and no separation to the cargo area..

 

 

Yeah... I know... lol

I know my thoughts on it aren't very rational... 

[balthazar]

On 11/2/2017 at 7:22 PM, smk4565 said:

The Model S costs near $100,000, if the Bolt at $40k was a sedan, sales would go up big.  And I know this because Tesla has 400,000 people waiting to buy a Model 3 sedan, imagine if someone else put a $40k EV sedan out now, they could clean up. 

2017 VW Golf MSRP : $20K.  US sales range : 5000-7200 units/mth

2017 VW e-Golf MSRP : $30K.  US sales range : 200-380 units/mth

Same styling, and a hatch.

[A Horse With No Name]

On 11/1/2017 at 3:29 PM, Cmicasa the Great said:

I wouldn't doubt that the Nox and Bolt stole some of its sales. In truth.. the Bolt is a bonafide hit at this point.. and the the Equinox has been since 2010

This seems entirely rational.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

2017 VW Golf MSRP : $20K.  US sales range : 5000-7200 units/mth

2017 VW e-Golf MSRP : $30K.  US sales range : 200-380 units/mth

Same styling, and a hatch.

eGolf doesn't have the range. When the eGolf gets 250 miles to a charge for a $30k - $35k price,  then compare.

[frogger]

I think the e-Golf is just a compliance car for VW.    With rebates here I can get one for ~24K CAD, but I have to wait over six months from order date if I could find a dealer with any allocation left for a 2018 model.

Unless I want to pick up this abandoned order and pay the 3K for the premium paint!

 

Similar story for the Focus Electric.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by frogger

[Drew Dowdell]

Ford is giving away Focus Electric in the US for $10k off. Both it and the eGolf are compliance cars... both manufacturers building the absolute minimum to count.

I was reading the other day that the Fusion plug-in is now the best selling plug-in hybrid out there (the Volt isn't counted on a technicality) beating even the Pruis Prime. 

[A Horse With No Name]

I am the biggest VW fan here but VW and anything electrical go together like ethics and congress.

My vote for an electric would be Bolt.

[ccap41]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

eGolf doesn't have the range. When the eGolf gets 250 miles to a charge for a $30k - $35k price,  then compare.

I knew it wasn't 200+ but I looked it up out of curiocity and the 2018's are rocking a 125 mile range.. weak for 30k. There would be no way I could take that over a GTI...yet. Gas prices spike, price drops some.. and it immediately becomes much more enticing. Of course I'd still want more than a 125 mile range. 

[Drew Dowdell]

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I knew it wasn't 200+ but I looked it up out of curiocity and the 2018's are rocking a 125 mile range.. weak for 30k. There would be no way I could take that over a GTI...yet. Gas prices spike, price drops some.. and it immediately becomes much more enticing. Of course I'd still want more than a 125 mile range. 

Womp womp....  gee I wonder why they don't sell many... These are the only dealers in the US that sell eGolf.

[ccap41]

I'm really surprised Chicago hasn't influenced IL to need EV's yet. They're, what, the 3rd largest city? 

[frogger]

For me a compact electric car would not be our road trip family vehicle regardless of range, so the 125 mile range of the compliance cars suits me well for a commuter.  I would only have to charge it twice a week most weeks,

The Bolt's cargo area is a bigger issue for me than the 125 mile range limit on other EV's.  The Ioniq EV has a cargo area that we could probably accept as our only family vehicle for all but maybe one road trip a year.  The Bolt, no way.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by frogger

[David]

21 minutes ago, frogger said:

For me a compact electric car would not be our road trip family vehicle regardless of range, so the 125 mile range of the compliance cars suits me well for a commuter.  I would only have to charge it twice a week most weeks,

The Bolt's cargo area is a bigger issue for me than the 125 mile range limit on other EV's.  The Ioniq EV has a cargo area that we could probably accept as our only family vehicle for all but maybe one road trip a year.  The Bolt, no way.

Bolt with Seats up are 16.9 cubic feet seats down 94.4 cubic feet of space

Ioniq EV seats up 23.8 cubic feet seats down 96.2 cubic feet of space

Bolt over all length = 164 inches

Ioniq overall length = 176 inches.

Understandable that the Ioniq has a bit more cargo space.

[A Horse With No Name]

A vehicle like the Bolt would be perfect for me given that I frequently haul things.

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

A vehicle like the Bolt would be perfect for me given that I frequently haul things.

Bolt EV EXT.

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

Bolt EV EXT.

...or something to that effect.

Were i to buy any GM car at this stage of my life with my own money, Bolt would rank really high on the list.  I just wish my wife ah liked the Buick lineup more when I showed them to her.

[Cmicasa the Great]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

Bolt with Seats up are 16.9 cubic feet seats down 94.4 cubic feet of space

Ioniq EV seats up 23.8 cubic feet seats down 96.2 cubic feet of space

Bolt over all length = 164 inches

Ioniq overall length = 176 inches.

Understandable that the Ioniq has a bit more cargo space.

I think U were missing the part where @frogger will do anything to buy from any maker than GM. He's a bonafide POS.. and he always has been. U can tell him I said it

[smk4565]

11 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

eGolf doesn't have the range. When the eGolf gets 250 miles to a charge for a $30k - $35k price,  then compare.

One day the eGolf will have 250 miles range and cost the same as at the turbo 4 Golf.  

[balthazar]

Right now the e-Golf has better range than the Leaf (125 vs. 107) at the same price, but Leaf moves 5 times as many. With CA being fully 50% of EV sales over the last 5 years, the numbers should be higher for the e-Golf, it appears. And the Leaf is a(n ugly) hatch.

There are other factors, there always are, that create the full picture. At the segment's onset, unique EV models succeed, EV variants of others do not. Is this an element of 'look at green me' WRT making the choice to go EV?