Comfort Cruiser SUV?

[Drew Dowdell]

The talk in the 2019 Mercedes-Benz G-Class thread got me thinking about SUVs for me.

I want something big and comfortable with lots of torque.  Prefer CPO to have a warranty and not deal with severe depreciation.

Should have a 6,000lb minimum tow rating (Not that I tow, but that rating requires a tongue weight rating of 600lbs which is needed for a Mototote)

I like cushy rides.

Thoughts are:

Jeep Grand Cherokee with air suspension

Escalade/Yukon/Tahoe SWB

XC90 doesn't have a high enough rating, but I do like it.

What else am I forgetting?

[ykX]

Ford Expedition / Navigator

Nissan Armada / Infiniti twin

Toyota Sequoia

2016 Acadia is close with 5200

Durango (probably not very cushy though)

 

[Drew Dowdell]

I wonder how cushie the new Navi will be. I haven't driven a Sequioa in eons.... 

Durango is probably at minimum cush level. I get them regularly as rentals and they're on my radar because Hemi..... But I like the GC better

[ykX]

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I wonder how cushie the new Navi will be. I haven't driven a Sequioa in eons.... 

Durango is probably at minimum cush level. I get them regularly as rentals and they're on my radar because Hemi..... But I like the GC better

Our friends have QX56 (now QX80), it is very nice for what it is.  I think drives smaller then most similar vehicles in the segment, and pretty comfotable. 

[Drew Dowdell]

The New Armada meets the criteria, I drove it back in October at a press event.  The thing I don't like about it is the infotainment system is utter rubbish for a 2017 vehicle.   I know that wasn't on my list of criteria, but it's a big enough issue to make me not like the car. 

[ccap41]

Cushy ride and a decent tow rating are probably a difficult combination to find. 

I would think the new Expedition/Navigator would be in there as well though. But they definitely won't be CPO for a bit yet. Not sure when you're thinking of pulling the trigger but I'd think you'd need at least a year to get some supply and choices on the used market. 

GLS also has a 7500lb tow rating with any engine. 

[ccap41]

X5 has a 5952lb tow rating.. 

If the Navigator/Escalade are on your radar the Land Cruiser should be as well. 8100lbs tow rating. 

It also has the word "Cruiser" right in its name.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm not sure when I want to pull the trigger either.   We're in another weird spot in life where 2018 could bring some big changes. I don't think my choice in my next vehicle will change, but the "when" could change.

That said, the Honda is dead again.... it has GOT to go!

20 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Cushy ride and a decent tow rating are probably a difficult combination to find. 

Actually, usually a high tow rating means adding things like air suspension.... that least it is that way on the Grand Cherokee and Durango.  The GC turns into a total puff ride with the air suspension.

[Robert Hall]

Does the Honda have a lot of miles now?   I can't recall, you probably posted before.   I hadn't started 2017 expecting to replace my old Jeep, it was still going ok at 170k albeit with a lot of interior electrical gremlins.  In between buying the house in Ohio and moving, I realized there was no way I could trust it on a 2000 mile drive..and the transmission started slipping continuously, so I decided in March it was time to replace.. 

[Drew Dowdell]

4 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Does the Honda have a lot of miles now?   I can't recall, you probably posted before.   I hadn't started 2017 expecting to replace my old Jeep, it was still going ok at 170k albeit with a lot of interior electrical gremlins.  In between buying the house in Ohio and moving, I realized there was no way I could trust it on a 2000 mile drive..and the transmission started slipping continuously, so I decided in March it was time to replace.. 

It's a 127k... and if it wasn't so damn expensive ($900) to replace the starter on it, it would be making its 3rd flatbed trip this year.  But I can't see sinking $900 into a car that I might only get $4500 from in full working order.   So I'm ordering the parts, I've had help pushing it into the garage, and I'll start to dig this weekend.

It's a 4-cylinder with the starter under the f-ing intake manifold like it's a Northstar or something.  $200 part, $700 labor.

[Drew Dowdell]

The X5 is an interesting idea... I'll have to look up the tongue weight rating. It should be minimum of 595 which could just squeak me in. 

[ccap41]

I don't know the kind of miles you put on your vehicles or what your driving style is but they offer it in a diesel option too. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by ccap41

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

I don't know the kind of miles you put on your vehicles or what your driving style is but they offer it in a diesel option too. 

Yeah, the diesel option came to mind.  A quick local search showed a bunch of PHEVs available in the area too which also intrigues me.   My driving is strange, I don't do a lot of driving around town, but then I'll go on long distance trips driving to DC for family or NYC for work.  I'll also often do PIT-DC-NYC-PIT.  So on a month I don't travel, I could put less than 500 miles on the car, but a month that I do travel could be 2,000+.

  I would like to drive to Florida more often to visit my parents and take a motorcycle with me, hence the need for the tongue weight rating. 

[David]

3 hours ago, ykX said:

Our friends have QX56 (now QX80), it is very nice for what it is.  I think drives smaller then most similar vehicles in the segment, and pretty comfotable. 

One thing about all the Full Size SUV, Body on Frame is how easy they are to drive. My wife loves driving our Escalade and Suburban as to her they drive as easy as a mid size car and have tight turning radius. She loves how easy they are to park even though they are as big as the pickup trucks at 22ft long. They at least do not have the terrible turning radius of the trucks.

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm not sure when I want to pull the trigger either.   We're in another weird spot in life where 2018 could bring some big changes. I don't think my choice in my next vehicle will change, but the "when" could change.

That said, the Honda is dead again.... it has GOT to go!

Actually, usually a high tow rating means adding things like air suspension.... that least it is that way on the Grand Cherokee and Durango.  The GC turns into a total puff ride with the air suspension.

That is what I love about my Escalade, the self leveling suspension makes it the ultimate road trip auto. My wife and I have done so many 18hr drives as you just eat up the miles with no discomfort in sitting.

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's a 127k... and if it wasn't so damn expensive ($900) to replace the starter on it, it would be making its 3rd flatbed trip this year.  But I can't see sinking $900 into a car that I might only get $4500 from in full working order.   So I'm ordering the parts, I've had help pushing it into the garage, and I'll start to dig this weekend.

It's a 4-cylinder with the starter under the f-ing intake manifold like it's a Northstar or something.  $200 part, $700 labor.

I will never understand the stupid engineer that puts parts in hard to service spots. To me it was an afterthought and cheap ass short cut to put it there, not to mention the heat probably did not help it's life.

[A Horse With No Name]

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The New Armada meets the criteria, I drove it back in October at a press event.  The thing I don't like about it is the infotainment system is utter rubbish for a 2017 vehicle.   I know that wasn't on my list of criteria, but it's a big enough issue to make me not like the car. 

A lot of details on that vehicle fall short IMHO.

My vote is for GC....hands down.

Interestingly, after looking at the Olds 98 thread...would be cool if Hybrid/electrical technology allowed car makers to build a true full size car again and meet CAFE and buyer expectations.  I could handle an all electrical full size coupe, convertible or wagon with full battery electric powertrain.

if that was only in production...or an all electric Toranado...Front wheel drive of course...

[Drew Dowdell]

I would say the S90 is pretty darn close in that regard

[A Horse With No Name]

Volvo depreciation is epic though.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Volvo depreciation is epic though.

That's a win for me.... cheaper to buy a CPO.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That's a win for me.... cheaper to buy a CPO.

The beetle was 16K for a car that stickered at 32K with 18,000 miles on it....gotta love CPO

[daves87rs]

I'm with him...I'd go with a GC as well.....the newer ones are growing on me, and anyone I know with a 2012+ loves theirs.

Funny how I read this and thinking of starting my own SUV thread again....it might be time to put the Cobalt out to pasture at the rate it's going.....

[David]

5 hours ago, daves87rs said:

I'm with him...I'd go with a GC as well.....the newer ones are growing on me, and anyone I know with a 2012+ loves theirs.

Funny how I read this and thinking of starting my own SUV thread again....it might be time to put the Cobalt out to pasture at the rate it's going.....

Go for it, the GC right now is one of the best SUVs if not the best for the class. You can get such a great deal. My son loves his and got the rare Rhino color for his GC as it stands out and just looks great. You can see how sharp it looks as I added it to our family album of cars we own or have owned.

 

[Robert Hall]

8 months in, and I'm very happy w/ my CPO GC... it doesn't have the air suspension, but even w/ the 20 inch wheels/tires it rides pretty smoothly.  

[ocnblu]

I would think an X5 would ride like a brick and be terribly expensive to fix if it were to break.  To me this is a no-brainer, I'd pick Tahoe, Yukon, or Expedition.  All three of them are on the top 10 longest lasting vehicles list.

[Drew Dowdell]

Those are the easy favorites. I was looking for additional options that I hadn't thought of. I don't much care for the previous Expedition interior, but I do like the new one. Won't find it as a CPO yet though, too new. 

The X5 can come with air suspension, so I would seek out one equipped that way.

[A Horse With No Name]

18 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I would think an X5 would ride like a brick and be terribly expensive to fix if it were to break.  To me this is a no-brainer, I'd pick Tahoe, Yukon, or Expedition.  All three of them are on the top 10 longest lasting vehicles list.

As much as it might pain me to agree with the good gentleman from Lancaster, methinks he might well be on to something.

17 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Those are the easy favorites. I was looking for additional options that I hadn't thought of. I don't much care for the previous Expedition interior, but I do like the new one. Won't find it as a CPO yet though, too new. 

The X5 can come with air suspension, so I would seek out one equipped that way.

 

17 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Those are the easy favorites. I was looking for additional options that I hadn't thought of. I don't much care for the previous Expedition interior, but I do like the new one. Won't find it as a CPO yet though, too new. 

The X5 can come with air suspension, so I would seek out one equipped that way.

I would still pick Jeep Grand....put a hemi in it and be done...

[Frisky Dingo]

Grand Cherokee or a newly available Touareg TDI by a land slide.

 

The XC90 sucks. Outside of pretty design, I don't know what anyone sees in that thing.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Grand Cherokee or a newly available Touareg TDI by a land slide.

 

The XC90 sucks. Outside of pretty design, I don't know what anyone sees in that thing.

What sucks about the XC90?  Not that it's on the list, it doesn't have the capacity... but I've liked it whenever I've driven it. 

[David]

Plenty of Tesla X on Autotrader with decent mileage and decent pricing.

[ccap41]

8 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Plenty of Tesla X on Autotrader with decent mileage and decent pricing.

What's their tow rating? 

Nvm, I looked it up. It's not enough. 

[ccap41]

IMO, there's nothing a about a Touareg that says, " Buy me over the competition" And for 60k I'd just rather the BMW. I know it's strictly preference but the TDI Touarge is pretty old in comparison and is coming from a generation of VW's that don't have the greatest reputation for reliability. 

[Frisky Dingo]

35 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

What sucks about the XC90?  Not that it's on the list, it doesn't have the capacity... but I've liked it whenever I've driven it. 

To me, everything. The engine is unrefined felling and sounding, has wonky power delivery and is totally devoid of any character or joy. The reliability from what I have seen is very poor. Many user controls are buried in stupid menus and back screens. The driver controls all have this strange wooden feel. The handling is some of the most ponderous and imprecise I've witnessed in a new SUV. I drove an R Line once on a slightly rainy day, and the traction/stability control intervention was unbelievable. It was RWD sportscar levels of unsurety and instability. I couldn't imagine the thing on snow/ice.

Again, it's a very pretty vehicle, and the interior is to die for, but they don't come close to making up for the rest of the vehicle's shortcomings. It's one of the most disappointing new cars I've driven in a long time. Just my .02

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

IMO, there's nothing a about a Touareg that says, " Buy me over the competition" And for 60k I'd just rather the BMW. I know it's strictly preference but the TDI Touarge is pretty old in comparison and is coming from a generation of VW's that don't have the greatest reputation for reliability. 

Aside from the fact that you don't have to pay anywhere neat 60K for one, they make an X5 feel cheap in comparison. And the TDI powerplants are notoriously solid. So there goes that argument. The tech/infotainment is definitely dated though. And the back seat is smallish.

But he said 'comfort cruiser'. They are super comfortable, they drive like bank vaults, they have effortless power and acceleration, will tow 6k without breaking a sweat, and they have exemplary fit and finish.

 

Barring that, if a newer Cayenne diesel is in the affordability range. There's your answer. All day long.

[Drew Dowdell]

Come to think of it. I think I've only driven the PHEV XC90 which may have different NVH characteristics than the others. I'm that case, I never found the power train objectionable.

A Toureg V10 would have to be CPO. The only way I'd own one is if VW is picking up the repair tab.

[ccap41]

50 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Aside from the fact that you don't have to pay anywhere neat 60K for one, they make an X5 feel cheap in comparison. And the TDI powerplants are notoriously solid. So there goes that argument. The tech/infotainment is definitely dated though. And the back seat is smallish.

But he said 'comfort cruiser'. They are super comfortable, they drive like bank vaults, they have effortless power and acceleration, will tow 6k without breaking a sweat, and they have exemplary fit and finish.

 

Sorry, I was just looking at msrp's from manufacturers. The BMW also wouldn't be 60k if it's used but MSRP's is kind of the easiest way to compare prices. 

There's a milllion more pieces to a vehicle outside of the engine and transmission that can fail and everybody who isn't biased knows previous generations of VWs weren't known to be the most reliable vehicles. That doesn't mean the engine won't last 3 lifetimes though.

X5 35d with the air suspension would absolutely do the same comfort cruising. 

[Frisky Dingo]

54 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Come to think of it. I think I've only driven the PHEV XC90 which may have different NVH characteristics than the others. I'm that case, I never found the power train objectionable.

A Toureg V10 would have to be CPO. The only way I'd own one is if VW is picking up the repair tab.

 

The V10 models were only around for a bit. They stopped making them a long time ago. I don't think it'd be possible to find a CPO one they are so old now. But even the 3.0 V6 TDI is a powerhouse.

 

8 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Sorry, I was just looking at msrp's from manufacturers. The BMW also wouldn't be 60k if it's used but MSRP's is kind of the easiest way to compare prices. 

There's a milllion more pieces to a vehicle outside of the engine and transmission that can fail and everybody who isn't biased knows previous generations of VWs weren't known to be the most reliable vehicles. That doesn't mean the engine won't last 3 lifetimes though.

X5 35d with the air suspension would absolutely do the same comfort cruising. 

 

The X5 would be as comfortable, but lacking in fit/finish, build quality, and refinement.  Newer tech though, so.

[smk4565]

On 12/14/2017 at 2:45 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

The talk in the 2019 Mercedes-Benz G-Class thread got me thinking about SUVs for me.

I want something big and comfortable with lots of torque.  Prefer CPO to have a warranty and not deal with severe depreciation.

Should have a 6,000lb minimum tow rating (Not that I tow, but that rating requires a tongue weight rating of 600lbs which is needed for a Mototote)

I like cushy rides.

Thoughts are:

Jeep Grand Cherokee with air suspension

Escalade/Yukon/Tahoe SWB

XC90 doesn't have a high enough rating, but I do like it.

What else am I forgetting?

I read the whole thread, my first thought was Kia Boreggo V8, because I knew they would be dirt cheap, and after looking on Auto Trader, they indeed are sub $10,000, but there are very few with the V8 and the V8 only made 337 hp, not the 375 hp the Genesis had, so that was a bust.

Why not just get a G-class?  They don't go down in value so it doesn't really cost anything other than gas to own it.  10 year old models go for about $38,000.  I found a 2003 with 270,439 miles for $22,000, I can't think of any other car that old with that many miles that still holds nearly 1/3 of its original $72,000 sticker price.

[Drew Dowdell]

Because I'm not insane.

 

[daves87rs]

On 12/27/2017 at 6:58 PM, smk4565 said:

I read the whole thread, my first thought was Kia Boreggo V8, because I knew they would be dirt cheap, and after looking on Auto Trader, they indeed are sub $10,000, but there are very few with the V8 and the V8 only made 337 hp, not the 375 hp the Genesis had, so that was a bust.

Why not just get a G-class?  They don't go down in value so it doesn't really cost anything other than gas to own it.  10 year old models go for about $38,000.  I found a 2003 with 270,439 miles for $22,000, I can't think of any other car that old with that many miles that still holds nearly 1/3 of its original $72,000 sticker price.

 

My first thought was...72k?? While I can't say it's a bad idea, I can think of so many other SUVs that would be less than that...

Like a Grand Cherokee SRT, for example.....

[smk4565]

11 hours ago, daves87rs said:

 

My first thought was...72k?? While I can't say it's a bad idea, I can think of so many other SUVs that would be less than that...

Like a Grand Cherokee SRT, for example.....

A 2002 G500 was $72,000 new, $22,000 used.   I was suggesting a 2007 G500 that would be about $39k.  Because almost no car holds 50% value when it is 10 years old.

[Drew Dowdell]

Asking price is not the same as selling price. They may be asking $22k, but that doesn't mean they'll get it.

[ccap41]

It's amazing what people will pay for those though. The gf has had a lot of people tell her to let them know when she wants to sell it. 

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It's amazing what people will pay for those though. The gf has had a lot of people tell her to let them know when she wants to sell it. 

They do have a following...like the Land Rover Defender..which hasn't been sold here in 20 years and sells for more now than they did new.   The G wagon has the hardcore off road chops of the Defender but with the added bling image, makes them always in demand. 

[daves87rs]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

A 2002 G500 was $72,000 new, $22,000 used.   I was suggesting a 2007 G500 that would be about $39k.  Because almost no car holds 50% value when it is 10 years old.

Should go well with the used Gucci suit.....it's amazing with people with pay for status items.....

[Suaviloquent]

Plenty of auto reviewers/publications have started to turn on the Volvo actually - only because with how well the styling and build quality of the interior is, any shortcoming is glaring. Their infotainment system is laggy and filled with bugs, and I think just as big of a weak link as the Armada's. The ride and handling are below par for the luxury segment, but the XC90 isn't priced at the top-end either. Powertrains are the problem for the luxury segment, but a solution to world increasingly chopping off some or all cylinders at a time.

You'd also probably want only the T6, and not the inscription model - because those get the large wheels - which means you want to get the Air Suspension too.

Touareg and GC are tops in this list. Isn't FCA finally getting a settlement in the works over the EcoDiesel? Or did that only affect RAM truck models that got the same engine? And isn't the Touareg TDI the only one that didn't require a substantial hardware fix to correct the substantial NoX emissions?

The VW is greater than the sum of its parts to me, and has the credentials to compete for your honest CPO luxury cushy ride dollars. You get that bit of exclusivity too! But I know that matters very little to you, you care only for the performance of intended function.

The Jeep is part Wrangler in ethos, part Durango in family heritage, part collaboration with EVIL EMPIRE (Daimler) for the platform that underpins it.

TL:DR, you get a lot of the best parts that FCA has ever put together for any vehicle ever since the partnership post BK. Especially that UConnect.

I would go for the VW, because it's more cushier than the GC if you compared it to German brand levels of refinement and build (if that matters to you), but the GC is a more versatile vehicle though be not as tailored in its multi-role capabilities, vis-a-vis the VW's more defined on-road prowess.

 

[smk4565]

What is the price limit for this vehicle?  And is a V6 or V8 preferred?  Because there are some big gas mileage differences between something like a Hylander Hybrid and a Tahoe.

[David]

42 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

What is the price limit for this vehicle?  And is a V6 or V8 preferred?  Because there are some big gas mileage differences between something like a Hylander Hybrid and a Tahoe.

Also big maintenance cost differences between them.

[ocnblu]

"Hylander" WTF is that

[Drew Dowdell]

CPO 2017 Grand Cherokee Summit hemi 4x4 is the price range.  Not looking for an SRT level anything. Comfort, torque, 600lb tow hitch tongue weight rating are the priorities.

[smk4565]

6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

CPO 2017 Grand Cherokee Summit hemi 4x4 is the price range.  Not looking for an SRT level anything. Comfort, torque, 600lb tow hitch tongue weight rating are the priorities.

So why not get a certified used GLE400 at the same money which has a 700 lb tongue weight, 7,000 lb tow rating, does 0-60 a full second faster than the Hemi Grand Cherokee and gets better gas mileage.  And we know where Jeep ranks on all the reliability charts.

[David]

23 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

So why not get a certified used GLE400 at the same money which has a 700 lb tongue weight, 7,000 lb tow rating, does 0-60 a full second faster than the Hemi Grand Cherokee and gets better gas mileage.  And we know where Jeep ranks on all the reliability charts.

Cost, Cost of repairs, Cost of Maintenance, Cost of owning an MB Black Hole that just sucks money as they suck worse in reliability in real world than even on the ratings Charts. GC are really bulletproof and cheap to repair when they do need it in comparison to the MB.

[smk4565]

52 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Cost, Cost of repairs, Cost of Maintenance, Cost of owning an MB Black Hole that just sucks money as they suck worse in reliability in real world than even on the ratings Charts. GC are really bulletproof and cheap to repair when they do need it in comparison to the MB.

Jeep is a perennial bottom dweller in every reliability study, only Fiat consistently ranks lower and Jeep is often worse than Land Rover and Mitsubishi, and Dodge and Chrysler are down there too every year since they share so many parts with Jeep.  

I would look at a Porsche Cayenne used also, Porsche is known for their quality and reliability and they have great resale value too.