First Impressions: 2020 Toyota Corolla: Comments

[Drew Dowdell]

The common thought today is that the sedan market in the U.S. is dying.  If that's the case, the 2020 Toyota Corolla hasn't given any reasons that it should stick around. 

While styling could be considered bolder over the prior model, it is still bland in person. Front and rear facias nearly mirror each other in a Studebaker-like "is it coming or going?" way.  The styling of the interior hasn't changed in any significant way though the materials are somewhat improved.  Mediocre engine choices, unlike the 2020 Kia Soul, leave little to be excited over.  The addition of a hybrid option is interesting, but only for people who think the Prius is too fugly to drive, otherwise, they would just buy the real thing.

The Corolla is the best selling car nameplate in history, but this latest version leaves little reason for that record to continue. In a tough small sedan market, it is going to take more than just more of the same to move the needle.

Dull, conventional, boring..... that's my opinion of the 2020 Corolla

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[A Horse With No Name]

Dull conventional and boring, but some people want an appliance. Kudos to Toyota for being able to profitably build and sell a small car here in the US where GM could not. 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Dull conventional and boring, but some people want an appliance. Kudos to Toyota for being able to profitably build and sell a small car here in the US where GM could not. 

The problem for Toyota is that the Civic does appliance just as well but in a more interesting way. The Mazda 3 does appliance well but in a much more luxurious way. And the Cruze... well.... nevermind about that.

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

The problem for Toyota is that the Civic does appliance just as well but in a more interesting way. The Mazda 3 does appliance well but in a much more luxurious way. And the Cruze... well.... nevermind about that.

....and Yet the Corolla still has a cult following, go figure. Civic and Mazda 3 will be on a short list for replacing the wife's car, Corolla will not. 

Will also be interested to see how quiet the new 3 is on the road, something previous 3's have not always excelled at. 

And i wish Honda built more Civic Si's. 

[daves87rs]

While I totally agree with you, it might even pick up some sales with the new model.

Less models to battle with now, since the Focus and Cruze will be gone......

[A Horse With No Name]

5 hours ago, daves87rs said:

While I totally agree with you, it might even pick up some sales with the new model.

Less models to battle with now, since the Focus and Cruze will be gone......

A PERFECT CAR FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE CARS.

[Robert Hall]

25 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

A PERFECT CAR FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE CARS.

Yes, like the Prius.  Just practical, functional, reliable transportation for the 98% of the driving population..

[A Horse With No Name]

Just now, Robert Hall said:

Yes, like the Prius.  Just practical, functional, reliable transportation for the 98% of the driving population..

Although there are passionate Prius owners...I know a few. And it has unique styling and features. The Corrolla is more of an appliance than my dryer.

At least my Dryer, made by Speed Queen, is built from a long standing American company. Props to Dfelt for suggesting that.

[Robert Hall]

8 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Although there are passionate Prius owners...I know a few. And it has unique styling and features. The Corrolla is more of an appliance than my dryer.

At least my Dryer, made by Speed Queen, is built from a long standing American company. Props to Dfelt for suggesting that.

Speaking of appliances, I really like my new GE washer and dryer.   Was an early Xmas present a couple weeks ago. 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Speaking of appliances, I really like my new GE washer and dryer.   Was an early Xmas present a couple weeks ago. 

I am going to do a GE dishwasher as a present to myself also.

[trinacriabob]

In defense of the Corolla, they last forever.  I know some folks who have gotten more than their money's worth.  Now, a timing chain has replaced a timing belt.  It's a boring car, indeed.  However, I'd rather have a Corolla given to me as a mid-size when renting rather than getting a Camry as a full-size when renting.  Of the Japanese full-sizes (in today's terms), the Camry has the vaguest road manners.  The instrument panel on them is also too fussy for short-term "ownership."

I'd much rather have a Chevy Cruze or a Ford Focus than a Corolla.  The Cruze has kept getting better and better from its Cavalier and Cobalt heritage.  I am very saddened by changing consumer preferences in automotive purchases.  I like my coupes and sedans.

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

In defense of the Corolla, they last forever.  I know some folks who have gotten more than their money's worth.  Now, a timing chain has replaced a timing belt.  It's a boring car, indeed.  However, I'd rather have a Corolla given to me as a mid-size when renting rather than getting a Camry as a full-size when renting.  Of the Japanese full-sizes (in today's terms), the Camry has the vaguest road manners.  The instrument panel on them is also too fussy for short-term "ownership."

 

I know a guy in Denver that is a multi-millionaire that drives a '94 Corolla he bought new, has a lot of miles on it.  Also has a '98 Tacoma for winter use.  He's not really a car fan, but tight w/ money. 

[A Horse With No Name]

21 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I know a guy in Denver that is a multi-millionaire that drives a '94 Corolla he bought new, has a lot of miles on it.  Also has a '98 Tacoma for winter use.  He's not really a car fan, but tight w/ money. 

...and the Corolla is perfect for him.

25 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

In defense of the Corolla, they last forever.  I know some folks who have gotten more than their money's worth.  Now, a timing chain has replaced a timing belt.  It's a boring car, indeed.  However, I'd rather have a Corolla given to me as a mid-size when renting rather than getting a Camry as a full-size when renting.  Of the Japanese full-sizes (in today's terms), the Camry has the vaguest road manners.  The instrument panel on them is also too fussy for short-term "ownership."

I'd much rather have a Chevy Cruze or a Ford Focus than a Corolla.  The Cruze has kept getting better and better from its Cavalier and Cobalt heritage.  I am very saddened by changing consumer preferences in automotive purchases.  I like my coupes and sedans.

I feel the same way about the demise for the most part of small sporty cars.

[regfootball]

On 11/29/2018 at 1:56 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

The problem for Toyota is that the Civic does appliance just as well but in a more interesting way. The Mazda 3 does appliance well but in a much more luxurious way. And the Cruze... well.... nevermind about that.

Sad deal is, the Cruze now, apart from needing a little more go juice is a pretty good small car. And definitely better than a corolla. It’s irritating to see corolla get new duds and Cruze get hammered. If Chevy has out a sexy front end on the current Cruze I think it’s fortunes would be different. 30K sticker prices don’t help either. 

When the current Cruze is done and used ones with 20k miles are available for cheap, and gas goes to 5 bucks a gallon like IT WILL. That Cruze will be a good buy for your college kid or a second car for the household. 

[trinacriabob]

The price of the Cruze can indeed go too high.  Again, the LT upgrade and no leather wrapped steering wheel?  Come on.

Edited December 1, 2018 by trinacriabob

[regfootball]

^^^^^ they've done that now on the Malibu.  The leather wrap went away on the standard LT.  The RS gets one, but not an option for heated cloth seats.  Heated cloth seats and dual zone now standard on the LT Malibu.  BUT YOU CAN'T CONFIGURE IT WITH CLOTH AND A LEATHER WHEEL ON THE LT TOGETHER.  The RS trim that will appeal to young and sporty buyers and no moonroof optional on that trim.  Who are are the useless dipshits at GM?  I would love it if they could contact me personally and explain some of this stuff.  Like Buick Regal preferred 2 with cloth seats a heated steering wheel is standard but you can't get factory heated seat.  WTF, idiots.  I mean, really Mary.  I can see leaving off the leather wrap wheel on the LS Malibu, but to save 15 bucks of cowhide on the LT version is really flat out comical.

Actually, the fact that on many GM models you have to pay EXTRA for packaged bundled just to get simple blind spot and cross path detection.  Even on some Cadillacs.  How misguided are the planning folks over there?  Safety systems included are a big chance to steal sales from other makers.  Nope, GM don't care.

Toyota can build a bland limp compact sedan and sell the shit out of them, GM wants to be a world player and they can't do something simple and basic like that anymore.  

GM has gone astray, think of all the lost opportunities, a real Tesla competitor, a new commercial van chassis, small commercial vans like Ford Transit, on and on.  And they can't even do a small car anymore.  Schooled by Hyundai, Toyota etc.

Edited December 2, 2018 by regfootball

[balthazar]

If it's 'only $15 of leather', then why not request every single vehicle GM makes, including an $18K Spark, have a leather wrapped wheel? I mean; why not, right?

I for one have no desire whatsoever to have 'blind spot/cross path detection' on any vehicle I own. Not only that, I don't want to pay for it because it's standard, either, so 'just disable it' (if even possible) is not the answer there, either.

I say brands who have overloaded their vehicles with mandatory features are astray, and no wonder the average ATP is something like $35K. Wonder how that happened?

[David]

27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

If it's 'only $15 of leather', then why not request every single vehicle GM makes, including an $18K Spark, have a leather wrapped wheel? I mean; why not, right?

I for one have no desire whatsoever to have 'blind spot/cross path detection' on any vehicle I own. Not only that, I don't want to pay for it because it's standard, either, so 'just disable it' (if even possible) is not the answer there, either.

I say brands who have overloaded their vehicles with mandatory features are astray, and no wonder the average ATP is something like $35K. Wonder how that happened?

Totally agree with this. I hate the nanny safety devices that they are forcing out on all the auto's. Drive and pay attention or pay someone to drive for you.

[regfootball]

Hyundai Sonata level 2 (SEL) and level 3 (Sport) trim has ----heated---- leather wrap wheel standard.  SE trim is comparable to Chevy LS trim.  Neither the SE or LS do, and that makes sense.  When the competition starts to outspec you, and sell at equal or lower prices (with longer warranties in this case as well), it is easy to see why GM loses market share.  Their management doesn't want to address it, they just choose to jack up MSRP's or close plants.  The Sonata has blind spot and cross path standard on all trims.  Again, GM, even on Cadillacs, makes you get expensive pacakges or trims to get what lowly Hyundai gives you standard.  Auto high beams is a feature everyone should have in their standard list for most trims by now too.

It makes more sense to include the stuff for customers and those who don't want it can simply not use it.  But if buyers see it as a feature to look for when buying new, they will make decisions based on it.

Edited December 2, 2018 by regfootball

[David]

8 minutes ago, regfootball said:

Hyundai Sonata level 2 (SEL) and level 3 (Sport) trim has ----heated---- leather wrap wheel standard.  SE trim is comparable to Chevy LS trim.  Neither the SE or LS do, and that makes sense.  When the competition starts to outspec you, and sell at equal or lower prices (with longer warranties in this case as well), it is easy to see why GM loses market share.  Their management doesn't want to address it, they just choose to jack up MSRP's or close plants.  The Sonata has blind spot and cross path standard on all trims.  Again, GM, even on Cadillacs, makes you get expensive pacakges or trims to get what lowly Hyundai gives you standard.  Auto high beams is a feature everyone should have in their standard list for most trims by now too.

It makes more sense to include the stuff for customers and those who don't want it can simply not use it.  But if buyers see it as a feature to look for when buying new, they will make decisions based on it.

I would be happy that headlights are always on period when you are in Drive. The amount of people driving asian auto's at dusk or at night turned off is amazing to me and they wonder why people are flashing them or honk their horns. 

[Suaviloquent]

Leather is just wrapped over a conventional wheel, and AFAIK, to wrap a wheel, any, even an econobox wheel with cowhide - it’s still a manual labour process. That drives up the cost, in terms of an option, it’s not that profitable to have it a la carte on an economy car, and automakers are incentivized to bundle them up. Making standard on a trim really speaks to what priorities different automakers take.

GM now wants to build desirable products that don’t use feature content as the sales proposition. You can’t beat the Asian brands that are collosal conglomerates in their home markets and are more vertically integrated by trying to replicate them without that monopololistic structure.

Thus you get Camaro shaped lifted hatchbacks that someone will buy, but really none of us ever will. Lots of crossovers that emphasize technyess. A Bolt that uses up its tax credits, while enraging the President by doing sound business (get it?), likely killing any hope that GM would get covered with a potential tax subsidy extension, while a Hyundai product sneaks in and unsurps the Bolt by being priced like but offering more. 

The new Chevy trucks are kinda meh because GM went for cost savings- they said it themselves - we want to beat Ford when it comes to cost, while skimping on creature comfort features while expanding some decent productivity capability and introducing just an incremental update to their power trains. I think the Multi pro tailgate will be a reliability headache as it introduces so many more moving parts - better charge more for it and not saddle the economy truck buyer with it, just like Ford’s handy but kinda overcomplicated bed step with handle. 

I am not really interested in any GM product except Cadillac because it’s the styling which just isn’t my cup of tea. And the good looking vehicles are not going to be replaced when their product cycle ends.

 

 

[smk4565]

I think the wheels look decent, after that, yawn.  

However, I bet sales of the Corolla are up next year and they sell over 300k of them since Ford and Chevy are leaving the segment in 2019.

[frogger]

Make a Wagon-ish version, lift the ride height an inch, profit.  I guess the next Prius-V might be something like that.

 

 

 

 

[Robert Hall]

42 minutes ago, frogger said:

Make a Wagon-ish version, lift the ride height an inch, profit.  I guess the next Prius-V might be something like that.

 

Isn't that the formula for the CH-R now?   And there is the Corolla hatchback now also.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Robert Hall

[frogger]

1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

Isn't that the HR-V or CH-R or something like that now? 

I think the CH-R is subcompact, anyways I guess it won't fly because the RAV4 is actually 2 inches shorter in length than the Corolla sedan.

 

 

 

[Robert Hall]

Just now, frogger said:

I think the CH-R is subcompact, anyways I guess it won't fly because the RAV4 is actually 2 inches shorter in length than the Corolla sedan. 

Yeah, they have enough small crossovers already...

[smk4565]

They are better off re-newing the Tacoma, 4Runner, Tundra and Sequioa. Land Cruiser which are all really dated.  They have CH-R, Rav4 and Highlander that are fairly fresh.  A Prius derived crossover could work plus they have an all wheel drive minivan.  There isn't really a shortage of truck, van, SUV type vehicles at Toyota, some are just dated.

[Drew Dowdell]

On 12/2/2018 at 5:56 PM, regfootball said:

Hyundai Sonata level 2 (SEL) and level 3 (Sport) trim has ----heated---- leather wrap wheel standard.  SE trim is comparable to Chevy LS trim.  Neither the SE or LS do, and that makes sense.  When the competition starts to outspec you, and sell at equal or lower prices (with longer warranties in this case as well), it is easy to see why GM loses market share.  Their management doesn't want to address it, they just choose to jack up MSRP's or close plants.  The Sonata has blind spot and cross path standard on all trims.  Again, GM, even on Cadillacs, makes you get expensive pacakges or trims to get what lowly Hyundai gives you standard.  Auto high beams is a feature everyone should have in their standard list for most trims by now too.

It makes more sense to include the stuff for customers and those who don't want it can simply not use it.  But if buyers see it as a feature to look for when buying new, they will make decisions based on it.

I don't know where GM package planners' heads are these days, but it isn't in a good place. 

I'm an old-time GM guy and I have a hard time seeing the value in GM offerings these days

3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They are better off re-newing the Tacoma, 4Runner, Tundra and Sequioa. Land Cruiser which are all really dated.  They have CH-R, Rav4 and Highlander that are fairly fresh.  A Prius derived crossover could work plus they have an all wheel drive minivan.  There isn't really a shortage of truck, van, SUV type vehicles at Toyota, some are just dated.

They just did the Tacoma. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 

They just did the Tacoma. 

Right, I didn't think it was on sale yet but maybe it is.  The 4Runner is still old but I am sure the new one is coming in 2020.  Toyota needs new engines still, they still use that 3.5 liter V6 that is about 12 years old at this point, and makes 4 cylinder power with V8 fuel economy.

Still that previous Gen Tacoma was around for too long without any update because there was no other competition other than a Frontier that is even more dated.

[balthazar]

On 12/2/2018 at 5:56 PM, regfootball said:

The Sonata has blind spot and cross path standard on all trims.

See, that would disqualify it from my consideration right there.

[regfootball]

i'm not 100% sure, but i believe you can turn off those things, at least the cross path warnings.