Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[A Horse With No Name]

27 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Every year in recent years I've tried to sit in and check out a variety of new vehicles at the annual local dealer auto show, and the #1 thing I find as a turn off about many new GM vehicles are the damn despair gray or charcoal/black GM interiors...so dour and bland, bland, bland.  It's better than the Tupperware/Fisher Price shit they had in the 90s-00s, but still nothing special in the design or materials, IMO.  

Yeah...I find myself thinking about what I will replace the Aveo with. If I don't get a Wrangler or a Bronco I have thought hard about other midsize SUVs. CX5 is too feminine for my tastes... that's from a guy who has owned a Cooper S...new Beetle...two Miatas...but the interior is far superior to anything GM has in the midsize class. Mazda 6 way outclasses the Malibu.

I am concerned that the domestic carmakers will become truck and big SUV only. And that market is so lucrative others will find a way in...chicken tax or no chicken tax.

And in the midsize SUV segment Toyota has such a lead in Hybrid with the RAV4. I find the interior of the RAV 4 to be distasteful but the resale is world's better than any midsize GM vehicle.

[Robert Hall]

14 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

 

I am concerned that the domestic carmakers will become truck and big SUV only. And that market is so lucrative others will find a way in...chicken tax or no chicken tax.

 

With few exceptions, the domestics are already truck and CUV/SUV only, sadly.    I like SUVs, but very few of them..no interest in the generic CUVs that dominate the market.  And I've never needed or wanted a truck.  Oh well... it was good while it lasted, don't know what you have until it's gone...  

[balthazar]

Sounds like you’re merely particular. You’re in a series of SUVs and the market is moving steadily to SUVs. You’re actually in the catbird seat.

[Robert Hall]

32 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Sounds like you’re merely particular. You’re in a series of SUVs and the market is moving steadily to SUVs. You’re actually in the catbird seat.

True.  I’ve been driving SUVs for 26 years.  But I do like cars also.  

[David]

Tomorrow is Tesla Shareholder meeting followed by their Battery Day. New Announcements are expected of battery cell's that will last triple the life cycle of current cells today plus big energy density improvements. New batteries are expected to be used in the Semi's, Truck and their Roadster 2.0.

Tesla 3 has changed battery over to lithium iron phosphate (LFP) cells  these cells are cheaper to produce, longer life and stop using rare earth elements like cobalt. 

https://www.tesla.com/2020shareholdermeeting

[David]

Electrify America is going strong in building out their DC fast charging network across the US. They have now created a new sub division Electrify Home.  80% of charging is done at homes for those that own ev's. One of the biggest challenges for home owners is finding an electrician who will install a Level 2 or 220V home charger.

Electrify Home https://www.electrifyhome.com/ now aims to reduce this confusion and simplify adding home charging. As simple as choosing your charger, choose the area you live in and have them tell you who can install the product. 24/7 support for their chargers and 3yr parts n labor warranty. 

Very simple web site that helps you easily add EV charging to your home.

[balthazar]

^ $2200 installed. My confusion on why it costs so much has SKYROCKETED.
 

Quote

One of the biggest challenges for home owners is finding an electrician who will install a Level 2 or 220V home charger.

Why is that in any way a challenge? Tons of electricians around, all capable of doing 220V work.

Yet more marketing spin trying to drum up business for a middleman where it's questionably necessary. Seems to be another like that stupid Home Advisor pyramid scheme.

Edited September 22, 2020 by balthazar

[David]

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ $2200 installed. My confusion on why it costs so much has SKYROCKETED.
 

Why is that in any way a challenge? Tons of electricians around, all capable of doing 220V work.

Yet more marketing spin trying to drum up business for a middleman where it's questionably necessary. Seems to be another like that stupid Home Advisor pyramid scheme.

Your making an ASSUMPTION that everyone knows how to talk to and hire an electrician. Far more people are clueless and just want a 220V charger in their home to plug their EV into. As such having a site where folks can go and put their info in, learn that they need an electrical permit, etc. to insure proper installation of said home charger is important.

Most humans do not have common sense and as such need the guidance and will pay for it.

Unlike you my friend and many others here, we can find and buy our own charger online and then hire a local electrician to come and install it where we want if the home is old and not already prewired for garage charging.

My sister and her partner just purchased a new house that comes prewired for a 220V charger so all they have to do is buy one with the 30A twist lock connection and plug it in, mount on the wall and they are ready to charge. Far simpler than this need for installation.

Big differences.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, David said:

Your making an ASSUMPTION that everyone knows how to talk to and hire an electrician. Far more people are clueless and just want a 220V charger in their home to plug their EV into.

What are you talking about?
Who can't talk to an electrician?
Home owners don't have a shred of responsibility to tell an electrician what to do; you call one, tell them you need a car charger, and they will tell you you need a permit, you have these chargers to choose from, etc. That's literally why you hire a professional.

"Hello. Do you install car chargers in residential homes? Yes? Can you come out to my home and give me an estimate?"

Literally done (other than writing the check).
 

This scenario is like saying you need an intermediary service because 'not everyone knows how to talk to / hire a mechanic'.  Same exact thing.

Edited September 22, 2020 by balthazar

[ccap41]

17 hours ago, David said:

I also wonder how fast GM will roll out the Chevrolet Silverado EV truck since it will be produced in the same assembly line.

My guess would probably be 2 model years after the Hummer, maybe like 18 months or so. So, maybe the same year or the following year as the F150. 

[David]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

What are you talking about?
Who can't talk to an electrician?
Home owners don't have a shred of responsibility to tell an electrician what to do; you call one, tell them you need a car charger, and they will tell you you need a permit, you have these chargers to choose from, etc. That's literally why you hire a professional.

"Hello. Do you install car chargers in residential homes? Yes? Can you come out to my home and give me an estimate?"

Literally done (other than writing the check).
 

This scenario is like saying you need an intermediary service because 'not everyone knows how to talk to / hire a mechanic'.  Same exact thing.

I truly wish what you posted is true about people. Sadly to many have proven that Common Sense is NOT SO COMMON.

I have heard plenty of folks across the world that are clueless about chargers and what they need to do. I have sadly heard plenty of unionized electricians that have no clue about EV's home chargers and do not want to learn and just say talk to someone else.

In a perfect world, what you say would be common for everyone. Sadly, you and everyone else here on the site are far more knowledgeable about things like this than most people.

Sadly, Tesla Makes Bank as so many of their buyers just want Tesla to take care of the home charger for them for those that live in a home, townhouse or condo where they can add such a device.

Once training gets better, I believe that GM, VW and everyone else will offer or point the buyers to Electrify Home to get this done. Even Rivian has stated that they will have clear info on home charging for those that want it there.

Just how I have seen humans who want minimal maintenance and see the auto, EV's/ICE as just an appliance to use.

[balthazar]

If you are incapable of typing something into google, or calling an electrician via ‘the yellow pages’, not to worry; you are already incapable of learning the existence of or buying an electric car.
 

It’s a self-policing scenario.

[David]

17 minutes ago, balthazar said:

If you are incapable of typing something into google, or calling an electrician via ‘the yellow pages’, not to worry; you are already incapable of learning the existence of or buying an electric car.
 

It’s a self-policing scenario.

Once could say the same thing about ICE. Amazing how many luxury auto's are bought due to the badge and yet the owners are idiots about maintaining it let along fueling it. 

One reason that AAA seems to have such a high call for fuel on the side of the road.

[ccap41]

What's the rate of AAA calls for fuel?

[balthazar]

Luxury autos are serviced at the dealer, not by owners.

Again- if you are incapable of hiring a service professional, you very likely are in assisted living and have no need for a car or a car charger.

[David]

20 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

What's the rate of AAA calls for fuel?

While AAA does not break that out, their last detailed report from 2016 way before EVs started to be in the news heavily is that between Memorial Day and Labor Day in the US alone, they rescued 32 million drivers along the road for everything from running out of Fuel, flat tire, dead battery, broken belts, etc.

https://newsroom.aaa.com/tag/roadside-assistance/

To Quote:

 roadside assistance data include:

• Battery failures, flat tires and keys locked inside the vehicle remain the top roadside assistance requests.
• Vehicles fewer than five years old have a higher proportion of tire, key and fuel-related issues than older vehicles. Due in part to complex, electronic vehicle designs, one-in-five service calls for a newer vehicle required a tow to a repair facility.
• Vehicles between 6 and 10 years old have the highest proportion of battery-related issues, as most batteries have a three- to five-year life.
• Roadside assistance calls peak in the summer (8.3 million) followed by winter (8.1 million), fall (7.8 million) and spring (7.7 million).
• Drivers are most likely to request roadside assistance on Mondays and least likely to request assistance on Sundays.
• Drivers in the West experienced the most breakdowns, followed by the South, the Northeast and the Midwest.
• Despite advances in key technology, AAA came to the rescue of more than four million drivers locked out of their vehicles.

“Drivers today have increasingly-connected lifestyles, and want reliable, flexible service options when trouble strikes,” continued Ruud. “AAA has responded with flexible roadside assistance offerings nationwide including app-based service requests and the ability to track assigned service vehicles in real time on a smartphone.”

[balthazar]

But you’ve perfectly illustrated my point here; where is the ‘Gasify America’ service that help keep the 275,000,000 IC vehicles maintained? Isn’t that very company the reason all IC vehicles don’t die and are abandoned after they go 3 or 4 times the oil change recommendation and grind to a halt?

Edited September 22, 2020 by balthazar

[David]

I see that last time AAA dug into their data and published it was 2014.

https://newsroom.aaa.com/2015/10/roadside-breakdowns-preventable-with-proper-maintenance-finds-aaa/

To Quote:

“While problems with batteries, tires and keys are the most common reasons that members call AAA for help, there are more than 12 million calls each year related to engine trouble, fuel issues and other mechanical mishaps,” warned Nielsen. “AAA will always be there to save the day, but this study reveals drivers can save time and money by investing in routine maintenance.”

Other key findings from 2014 roadside assistance data include:

• AAA towed more than two million vehicles for engine-related issues and an additional 600,000 vehicles for transmission failure.
• More than 235,000 vehicles were towed due to brake system failures.
• While most modern vehicles are equipped with low-fuel lights, AAA provided gasoline fuel delivery to more than half a million vehicles in 2014.
• Due to members incorrectly fueling their gasoline-powered vehicle with diesel fuel, or vice-versa, AAA towed more than 13,000 vehicles to repair facilities.

“While today’s vehicle technology incorporates maintenance reminders and dashboard alerts designed to prevent roadside trouble, drivers still must take action,” cautioned Josh VanWynsberghe, AAA’s automotive technical engineer. “Finding a mechanic you trust and allowing that shop to perform all of your vehicle’s maintenance will result in improved reliability, higher resale values and increased safety.”

56 minutes ago, balthazar said:

If you are incapable of typing something into google, or calling an electrician via ‘the yellow pages’, not to worry; you are already incapable of learning the existence of or buying an electric car.
 

It’s a self-policing scenario.

 

9 minutes ago, balthazar said:

But you’ve perfectly illustrated my point here; where is the ‘Gasify America’ service that help keep the 275,000,000 IC vehicles maintained? Isn’t that very company the reason all IC vehicles don’t die and are abandoned after they go 3 or 4 times the oil change recommendation and grind to a halt?

You answered yourself earlier. There is enough evidence that ICE owners are just as incapable as EV owners in taking care of their auto's. 

Regardless of ICE or EV, many humans ignore all the details and play dumb when it comes to taking care of their auto. This is the same approach they take when it comes to new tech and not reading the owners guide. As such, there is a middle man need for having home Level 1 & 2 Chargers installed.

You have people who hire you to do various projects as they do not want to learn or do the work themselves. Same thing when it comes to ICE or EV maintenance or tools such as a home charger system installed.

Humans are lazy in many ways.

[balthazar]

You sidestepped hiring a contractor to maintaining a vehicle. Not remotely the same scenario.

7 minutes ago, David said:

Same thing when it comes to ICE or EV maintenance or tools such as a home charger system installed.

I thought your position was that people are incapable of hiring an electrician?

[Drew Dowdell]

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ $2200 installed. My confusion on why it costs so much has SKYROCKETED.
 

Why is that in any way a challenge? Tons of electricians around, all capable of doing 220V work.

Yet more marketing spin trying to drum up business for a middleman where it's questionably necessary. Seems to be another like that stupid Home Advisor pyramid scheme.

I'm actually going to get a quote from them and a competing installer.  I'll let you know. 

[David]

8 minutes ago, balthazar said:

You sidestepped hiring a contractor to maintaining a vehicle. Not remotely the same scenario.

I thought your position was that people are incapable of hiring an electrician?

Many people are incapable of hiring an electrician as they do not want to learn what to ask, who to reach out too. This is why they go to a home depot and pay them to hire a 3rd party to come out and do an install of what ever they want done.

My neighbor is well educated computer engineer and his wife is a dentist. They have no interest in learning about things even their auto's, they go to the dealership or they go to home depot and tell them what they want and pay through the nose to have stuff done.

I see this all the time especially with H-1 Visa employees who come here and buy a house, auto, etc. and just pay for everything as they only do their career. 

We have plenty of people that have no interest in learning how to do things such as you and I enjoy doing be it a hobby or a job.

[balthazar]

Many people are incapable of hiring an electrician as they do not want to learn what to ask, who to reach out too.

I told you what you ask :: 'Do you install chargers for my electric car at my house?' There's nothing else to ask.
And I told you who you reach out to :: an electrician.

You are literally stating that someone who is 'tech-savy' enough to buy an electric vehicle is incapable of opening google.

And you don't need to know how to do things- including electrical work- you only need to be able to open google and make a phone call. Who owns a home & and electric car and canNOT make a phone call?

Where is the service that helps people get their car repaired? Oh yeah- those are 'mechanics'. How do people find them? They open google and make a phone call.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, David said:

One reason that AAA seems to have such a high call for fuel on the side of the road.

So as of 2014 these calls were only 15.3% of calls. 3,348,000 total calls and 513,000 were fuel related.. I don't think anybody thinks that rate is really "high".

[Robert Hall]

9 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

Where is the service that helps people get their car repaired? Oh yeah- those are 'mechanics'. How do people find them? They open google and make a phone call.

Even better, I have my car dealer, independent repair shop, insurance company, and AAA in my phone as contacts.   No googling.. also have my electrician, handyman, plumber, and yard guy in the contacts. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

36 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Even better, I have my car dealer, independent repair shop, insurance company, and AAA in my phone as contacts.   No googling.. also have my electrician, handyman, plumber, and yard guy in the contacts. 

What are YOU talking about??
You can't call an electrician, a handyman, a plumber or landscaper DIRECTLY!! You need a middleman service!
"Lawncuttifying America" to the rescue!

[Drew Dowdell]

45 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Even better, I have my car dealer, independent repair shop, insurance company, and AAA in my phone as contacts.   No googling.. also have my electrician, handyman, plumber, and yard guy in the contacts. 

I have a button in my MyChevy app that has my dealer's info in it.

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

What are YOU talking about??
You can't call an electrician, a handyman, a plumber or landscaper DIRECTLY!! You need a middleman service!
"Lawncuttifying America" to the rescue!

Well, I did get recommendations from Nextdoor, Angie's List and local Facebook groups when I first moved here for finding the electrician, handyman, yard guy, etc.     But once I connected w/ them I saved their numbers.  Probably talked to a 1/2 dozen lawn services till I found someone who get through my yard gate (it's only 48 inches wide). 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Robert Hall

[Drew Dowdell]

9 minutes ago, balthazar said:

What are YOU talking about??
You can't call an electrician, a handyman, a plumber or landscaper DIRECTLY!! You need a middleman service!
"Lawncuttifying America" to the rescue!

I get recommendations from Homeadvisor, Costco, etc.  Electrify America's service isn't much different than that.  I have and electrician and plumber I use.   I just went through Costco to get a quote on a garage door replacement.

[balthazar]

I just worked with 2 brand-new-to-me trades companies over the last week. I did the Google thing.
No issues. I don't remotely see why it's so hard for anyone that they see an advantage using a middleman. And I wouldn't touch HomeAdvisor with the proverbial 10 foot pole.

Edited September 22, 2020 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I just worked with 2 brand-new-to-me trades companies over the last week. I did the Google thing.
No issues. I don't remotely see why it's so hard for anyone that they see an advantage using a middleman. And I wouldn't touch HomeAdvisor with the proverbial 10 foot pole.

Reading reviews from actual customers and people in my local area, etc is more useful than googling randos...

[balthazar]

^ OK, but those are the very folk David says  have 1. no common sense, 2. are lazy, 3. don’t know how to do anything, 4. can’t make a simple direct phone call. 😝

[daves87rs]

On 9/20/2020 at 2:04 PM, David said:

Hopefully the Hummer by GMC can change that by starting a stylistic trend away from coasting mediocrity of blah design. 

Chevrolet trucks is a perfect example of an ugly brick design that just screams HELL NO!

Kinda what I was thinking as well. GM really needs to make these things bad a.s.s.  Something that shakes up the EV image a bit from a toaster with wheels (no leading design here 😉 ) 

If people want it, they will learn how to charge it.......

[Robert Hall]

8 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

Kinda what I was thinking as well. GM really needs to make these things bad a.s.s.  Something that shakes up the EV image a bit from a toaster with wheels (no leading design here 😉 ) 

 

Not another potato with wheels like the Bolt...  they need something edgy, bold, brash...maybe something with tail fins...maybe a mix of Corvette and Escalade...with a variety of bold, bright colors inside and out, interesting materials inside.. 

[Drew Dowdell]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

I just worked with 2 brand-new-to-me trades companies over the last week. I did the Google thing.
No issues. I don't remotely see why it's so hard for anyone that they see an advantage using a middleman. And I wouldn't touch HomeAdvisor with the proverbial 10 foot pole.

What’s wrong with HomeAdvisor? 

[balthazar]

Trades have to pay to get listed, I think it was $750 for the first year, about $450 after that. This was about 5 or 6 years ago, when they tried to recruit me (called 6 or 8 times). The Better Business Bureau is another 'pay to play' association; if you aren't in the 'club' the consumer complaints go nowhere. The BBB has no idea my business even exists.

I don't care to bid against others, which is the de facto set-up thru HomeAdvisor. I mean; I will bid against others if I walk into that scenario, but I have a staunch policy of not altering my bid because of that, or if the homeowner pressures me to ("Is your price negotiable?" or "Contractor B underbid you by X"). No; it's not negotiable and, I don't give a shit what someone else bids. Go ahead- take the job.

I feel like HA puts price before anything else (in the mind of the consumer), leading to 1. downward price pressure, 2. a LOT of wasted time running around doing estimates, 3. higher chances for someone like me who does NOT put lowest possible price first to not get the job bid. Which equals even more wasted time.

I get about 90% of the jobs I bid. 14 years, not a single ad placed, no truck lettering, no lawn signs, no networking, no HomeAdvisor, no internet. All word of mouth- the best possible method. Personalized recommendation, not anonymous 'cyber reviews'. Work all the time- have more than I can handle.

In one tiny town near me (pop. around 700), I've worked in 5 different houses there, plus just talked to a 6th earlier this month.

Just got a glowing report from a tenant to the landlord on a list of things I did on a house, and I barely dealt with the tenant. Maintained communications (it took about 5 visits), arrived when I said I would within 10 mins, cleaned up afterward. Common sense/courtesy. Comment was 'you can tell when someone really cares about their work and is doing a really good job'. "Meticulous" is probably the most common compliment.

That right there is worth more money. Does HomeAdvisor have a formula to compensate the contractor who performs above & beyond? Nope, not feasible for them.

I disremember the details, but prior to the renaming as HomeAdvisor, there was some sort of major legal issues the company had to distance themselves from. Shady practices/lawsuit sort of thing. I don't know if the same parties are still involved or not, but like I've illustrated above- I think these anonymous "services" are overhyped and under-performing.

You asked.

[David]

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ OK, but those are the very folk David says  have 1. no common sense, 2. are lazy, 3. don’t know how to do anything, 4. can’t make a simple direct phone call. 😝

Yes, plenty of people like that. Amazing how lazy humans can be.  

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Trades have to pay to get listed, I think it was $750 for the first year, about $450 after that. This was about 5 or 6 years ago, when they tried to recruit me (called 6 or 8 times). The Better Business Bureau is another 'pay to play' association; if you aren't in the 'club' the consumer complaints go nowhere. The BBB has no idea my business even exists.

I don't care to bid against others, which is the de facto set-up thru HomeAdvisor. I mean; I will bid against others if I walk into that scenario, but I have a staunch policy of not altering my bid because of that, or if the homeowner pressures me to ("Is your price negotiable?" or "Contractor B underbid you by X"). No; it's not negotiable and, I don't give a shit what someone else bids. Go ahead- take the job.

I feel like HA puts price before anything else (in the mind of the consumer), leading to 1. downward price pressure, 2. a LOT of wasted time running around doing estimates, 3. higher chances for someone like me who does NOT put lowest possible price first to not get the job bid. Which equals even more wasted time.

I get about 90% of the jobs I bid. 14 years, not a single ad placed, no truck lettering, no lawn signs, no networking, no HomeAdvisor, no internet. All word of mouth- the best possible method. Personalized recommendation, not anonymous 'cyber reviews'. Work all the time- have more than I can handle.

In one tiny town near me (pop. around 700), I've worked in 5 different houses there, plus just talked to a 6th earlier this month.

Just got a glowing report from a tenant to the landlord on a list of things I did on a house, and I barely dealt with the tenant. Maintained communications (it took about 5 visits), arrived when I said I would within 10 mins, cleaned up afterward. Common sense/courtesy. Comment was 'you can tell when someone really cares about their work and is doing a really good job'. "Meticulous" is probably the most common compliment.

That right there is worth more money. Does HomeAdvisor have a formula to compensate the contractor who performs above & beyond? Nope, not feasible for them.

I disremember the details, but prior to the renaming as HomeAdvisor, there was some sort of major legal issues the company had to distance themselves from. Shady practices/lawsuit sort of thing. I don't know if the same parties are still involved or not, but like I've illustrated above- I think these anonymous "services" are overhyped and under-performing.

You asked.

And yet there are plenty of people that do not want to search around via word of mouth and just want a site or Home Depot to go in and pay a price for the work to be done or connected to who can bid to do it.

Options that what this is all about. 

Electrify Home is an option for people who do not want to go the route you currently work through.

[A Horse With No Name]

14 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Not another potato with wheels like the Bolt...  they need something edgy, bold, brash...maybe something with tail fins...maybe a mix of Corvette and Escalade...with a variety of bold, bright colors inside and out, interesting materials inside.. 

I will never look at a potato in the same way again...sadly...

[David]

14 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Not another potato with wheels like the Bolt...  they need something edgy, bold, brash...maybe something with tail fins...maybe a mix of Corvette and Escalade...with a variety of bold, bright colors inside and out, interesting materials inside.. 

Found your Potato auto. Potato Power!!!

[A Horse With No Name]

34 minutes ago, David said:

Found your Potato auto. Potato Power!!!

Considering how Ugly Honda, Nissan, and others build their cars....I think the real vegetables are the people working in design studios.

[ykX]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34129129/california-ban-internal-combustion-vehicles-2035/

California to Ban Sale of New Gasoline Vehicles in 2035, Favoring EVs

Kind of ironic considering how bad is California's electric grid system, with constant power interruptions.  Maybe they should improve infrastructure first?

[David]

VW showed off their production electric EV CUV. AWD with 250 mile battery pack will start at $44,890. Their RWD model is available starting Q1 2021, Q3 2021 is when the AWD model will go on sale at VW dealerships. VW says they will have about 160,000 available $7,500 tax credits when this goes on sale to help lower the price. RWD is 201HP, AWD is 302 HP, 0 to 60 in 8 seconds, will compete with the Honda CR-V and Toyota Rav4.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129702_2021-vw-id-4-250-mile-electric-suv-starts-at-41490

 

ID.4 Pro

[ccap41]

2 hours ago, ykX said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34129129/california-ban-internal-combustion-vehicles-2035/

California to Ban Sale of New Gasoline Vehicles in 2035, Favoring EVs

Kind of ironic considering how bad is California's electric grid system, with constant power interruptions.  Maybe they should improve infrastructure first?

FWIW, every new home built in California requires solar panels. It started this year. It's a great start, at least. 

[ocnblu]

I believe in 1969, California lawmakers proposed banning ICE vehicles by 1975.

 

LOL

Didn't stick then, ain't gonna stick now.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, David said:

VW showed off their production electric EV CUV. AWD with 250 mile battery pack will start at $44,890.

They're playing the Tesla game of incorporating the tax credit into their MSRP, because right now vw.com says the id4 starts at $39,995.
Still too pricey, when their top shelf SUV Atlas starts at only $31,545.

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

I believe in 1969, California lawmakers proposed banning ICE vehicles by 1975.

 

LOL

Didn't stick then, ain't gonna stick now.

The tech to make it stick did not exist and/or was cheap enough back in the 1970s.  Nowadays, no ICE sales in 2035 is at least plausible.  Even if you think the goal is risible.

[ykX]

13 hours ago, ccap41 said:

FWIW, every new home built in California requires solar panels. It started this year. It's a great start, at least. 

True, but how many of the new homes compared to old ones.

My point was that before banning something they need to prepare infrastructure for it, and IMO 15 years is nothing unless they start spending extensively now.  I don't see that happening.  Their power grid doesn't look to be up to the task and they need to have enough public chargers for people who either do not have private house or can not afford to install charger.

IMO this is just a populist move by the current governor and the next one will reverse that decision.  Or if that law sticks I see a huge spike in ICE car sales in neighboring states. 

[ccap41]

2 hours ago, ykX said:

True, but how many of the new homes compared to old ones.

My point was that before banning something they need to prepare infrastructure for it, and IMO 15 years is nothing unless they start spending extensively now.  I don't see that happening.  Their power grid doesn't look to be up to the task and they need to have enough public chargers for people who either do not have private house or can not afford to install charger.

IMO this is just a populist move by the current governor and the next one will reverse that decision.  Or if that law sticks I see a huge spike in ICE car sales in neighboring states. 

Oh I agree. I was just saying the required solar panels is a great start but, like you said, how can 15 years' worth of new homes be able to support everybody? they do need a massive overhaul to do what they're claiming. 

[David]

@ykX @ccap41 California has committed almost $500 million to expand their EV public charging infrastructure.

https://timesofsandiego.com/politics/2020/08/27/california-approves-largest-ever-utility-program-to-expand-ev-charging/

https://afdc.energy.gov/stations/#/analyze?country=US&fuel=ELEC&ev_levels=all&access=public&access=private&region=US-CA

[ykX]

^ Very good, I didn't know that.

[David]

47 minutes ago, ykX said:

^ Very good, I didn't know that.

Considering that Charging stations and outlets are far cheaper to install than gas stations and pumps, I think with committed dollars, we will see the infrastructure expand greatly in the near future.

Interesting read on California's electrical grid.

https://poweringcalifornia.com/californias-electricity-grid-explained/

Another Interesting read: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-28/what-the-world-gets-if-u-s-electricity-becomes-100-green