[siegen]

I personally believe the cycle will come full circle:  The old cliche about becoming a victim of your own success.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe for Toyota. Their aggressize marketting and growth, and the more common recalls that are popping up (at least when compared to older Toyota), might come around and bite them. Maybe not though, they're intellegent and know how to run business. And it definately won't happen anytime soon.

Honda on the other hand, has always grown slowly and evenly. There has never really been a spike or dull period for Honda. They definately are a much more conservative company than Toyota, at least in most areas. As long as Honda doesn't become overconfident they probably will never end up like GM.

[Cortazzo]

The beauty of these multi speed transmissions is that you can cruise at high speeds and still get great economy. most people don't drive 55/60 on the highway, they drive 70/75. That sixth gear can be high enough to give you 55 economy at 75. Or if a car doesn't have a huge torque band, the close ratio of gears can keep the engine 'on boil' in it's peak zone to deliver better performance. CVT is probably the best answer, but most people find them a little odd to drive. I personally wish I had an extra gear on my Tiburon, if I'm on a long hiway trip i'd rather cruise at 2k rpm as opposed to the 3k rpm i do if I'm cruising at 70 mph.

[76ChevyTrucker]

I definitely realize the idea of having an extra gear on long trips, but with the exception of a long trip and long endurance-type cruises, do you need six gears to drive 2.5 miles to the grocery store and then 2.5 miles back home? Or how about the 7.6 miles to work and back? I know I'm happy as hell with my 4T65E in my Impala, or even better, the THM350HD in my Custom Deluxe.

[The O.C.]

You know, part of me thinks that the people designing transmissions in today's cars and trucks were all OTR (over-the-road) truck drivers at some point.....I mean you don't EVER need 6-gears for a family car, unless its a highly stripped, very powerful, higly modified family car.  Think of it, asside from your local Frieghtliner, Peterbuilt, or Kenworth, what else needs a ba-jillion gears to get it moving?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

6 gears = basically better performance and better fuel economy due to the fact that the gear ratios can be closer together, keeping the engine in the meat of the powerband upon acceleration....and having more gears allows you the opportunity to make 6th gear taller for quieter and more efficient crusing....and make 1st and 2nd gear shorter for more lively off-the-line acceleration.

[sciguy_0504]

Maybe for Toyota. Their aggressize marketting and growth, and the more common recalls that are popping up (at least when compared to older Toyota), might come around and bite them. Maybe not though, they're intellegent and know how to run business. And it definately won't happen anytime soon.

Honda on the other hand, has always grown slowly and evenly. There has never really been a spike or dull period for Honda. They definately are a much more conservative company than Toyota, at least in most areas. As long as Honda doesn't become overconfident they probably will never end up like GM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No doubt Toyota's aggressive strategy is mainly the reason for all of their most recent problems. Hopefully management will notice and slow things down a bit as well as triple checking all new designs. The new Tundra has to have ZERO problems when it comes out or else there will be big problems. No ball joint issues there.

[The O.C.]

The Corvette and CTS-V are performance cars and need every bit of speed advantage they can get. You'll notice that both of them have that skip shift feature to help them with fuel efficiency, effectively turning them into 4-speeds under normal driving.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Skip shift is a piece of crap......

If I actually allow the skip shift to take me into 4th gear when it wanted to, even my very torquey Corvette can't comfortably accelerate. It bogs down and VERY slowly picks up speed. That can be even bad in heavy traffic. Dragging it from 1st to 4th at that low of engine speeds just drops the car into a hole.

I always bypass it unless I happen to not be paying attention. You can bypass it by either, shifting from 1st to 2nd at below about 2,000rpms, or accelerate in 1st to just past 2,300rpms, or wait to pull the shift lever back out of 1st until the skip shift indicator light goes out (a second or two.)

[Oldsmoboi]

The beauty of these multi speed transmissions is that you can cruise at high speeds and still get great economy.  most people don't drive 55/60 on the highway, they drive 70/75.  That sixth gear can be high enough to give you 55 economy at 75.  Or if a car doesn't have a huge torque  band, the close ratio of gears can keep the engine 'on boil' in it's peak zone to deliver better performance.  CVT is probably the best answer, but most people find them a little odd to drive.  I personally wish I had an extra gear on my Tiburon, if I'm on a long hiway trip i'd rather cruise at 2k rpm as opposed to the 3k rpm i do if I'm cruising at 70 mph.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the 6th gear is a taller overdrive gear, then that'd be great. As it is the 5th gear is usually 1:1 and the 6th gear is a standard ratio overdrive somewhere around .79:1

[The O.C.]

The Roadmaster and Riv were both good for about 27mpg. They were both designed in the early 90s. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 4th gear on those 4-speeds was very tall....helping aid highway fuel economy. The problem is....that left huge chasms (relatively speaking) inbetween gears 1 and 4.

Passing acceleration can also be improved with a 5 or 6-speed auto because you have a wider choice of ratios to dip into for increased power depending on the driving/passing conditions.

Many times driving say a 4-speed auto, I find that you punch it to pull out to pass, and only get a downshift to 3rd gear because 2nd is geared to short to keep acceleration peppy from a stop....and therefore the tranny won't grab it.

[Oldsmoboi]

Skip shift is a piece of crap......

If I actually allow the skip shift to take me into 4th gear when it wanted to, even my very torquey Corvette can't comfortably accelerate.  It bogs down and VERY slowly picks up speed.  That can be even bad in heavy traffic.  Dragging it from 1st to 4th at that low of engine speeds just drops the car into a hole.

I always bypass it unless I happen to not be paying attention.  You can bypass it by either, shifting from 1st to 2nd at below about 2,000rpms, or accelerate in 1st to just past 2,300rpms, or wait to pull the shift lever back out of 1st until the skip shift indicator light goes out (a second or two.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that skip shift, as it's currently set up, isn't a really graceful solution. Would a 1-3-5-6 shift pattern work better do you think?

[Oldsmoboi]

The 4th gear on those 4-speeds was very tall....helping aid highway fuel economy.  The problem is....that left huge chasms (relatively speaking) inbetween gears 1 and 4.

Passing acceleration can also be improved with a 5 or 6-speed auto because you have a wider choice of ratios to dip into for increased power depending on the driving/passing conditions.

Many times driving say a 4-speed auto, I find that you punch it to pull out to pass, and only get a downshift to 3rd gear because 2nd is geared to short to keep acceleration peppy from a stop....and therefore the tranny won't grab it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my experience driving the Roadmaster over the mountians 345 ft/torque @ 3100 RPM means you don't need to downshift nearly as often. Remember, it's not a vette, it's an Avalon competitor. <in purpose it's purpose>

My point is, have a huge amount of torque, way down low in the RPM band, and the number of gears become less important.

23mpg out of a V8 1957 Buick with a 1 speed dynaflow is fairly impressive. I've often wondered what the result would be if someone developed a modern dynaflow since it is really just a CVT from the 50s.

[Angry Dad]

the whole trick to an automatic transmission is the k factor of the torque converter or lately the material and aplication method for convertor clutch. You can slip a transmission on the input end to get durabilty and shift feel but it's a disaster if you go the other way. The reason to go 6 gears is to gain efficiency, go lower with the first gear. It doesn't really matter where the top gear is since final drive is simply a matter of design and calibration. Nobody here has any idea if these failures are assembly or design. But over time Aisan and Jatco have built some really crappy transmissions. Honda got burned by some. Mitsubishi too. The still can't get shift feel anywhere close to Hydramatic. And they still have problems with shift logic.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Many times driving say a 4-speed auto, I find that you punch it to pull out to pass, and only get a downshift to 3rd gear because 2nd is geared to short to keep acceleration peppy from a stop....and therefore the tranny won't grab it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that is so annoying, when your going a little too fast for second, but too slow for 3rd, so instead of a surge of power, you get a gradual increase while you get back into the powerband. 5 and 6 speeds are an improvement over 4 speeds, but I dont think 7 or 8 is necessary, or of any benefit.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Skip shift is a piece of crap......

If I actually allow the skip shift to take me into 4th gear when it wanted to, even my very torquey Corvette can't comfortably accelerate.  It bogs down and VERY slowly picks up speed.  That can be even bad in heavy traffic.  Dragging it from 1st to 4th at that low of engine speeds just drops the car into a hole.

I always bypass it unless I happen to not be paying attention.  You can bypass it by either, shifting from 1st to 2nd at below about 2,000rpms, or accelerate in 1st to just past 2,300rpms, or wait to pull the shift lever back out of 1st until the skip shift indicator light goes out (a second or two.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds annoying. I would find some software to remove that if it were my car.

[Oldsmoboi]

Sounds annoying. I would find some software to remove that if it were my car.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are skip shift removal kits out there.

[AAS]

There are skip shift removal kits out there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have it... it's great. You unplug the wires going to the skip-shift solenoid, and plug in a resistor (in place of the solenoid) to keep the computer thinking everything is OK.

And, yes... a 1-3 skip would be better then a 1-4. But, it's not a natural shifting motion.

Also... to whoever is using hi-po (Vette, CTSv) cars w/ 6-speed manuals to argue that 6-speeds doesn't equal a crappy torque curve... Those cars have a double overdrive, so it's more like a 4-speed. That kinda works in favor of Oldsmoboi's case.

[toyoguy]

Maybe for Toyota. Their aggressize marketting and growth, and the more common recalls that are popping up (at least when compared to older Toyota), might come around and bite them. Maybe not though, they're intellegent and know how to run business. And it definately won't happen anytime soon.

Honda on the other hand, has always grown slowly and evenly. There has never really been a spike or dull period for Honda. They definately are a much more conservative company than Toyota, at least in most areas. As long as Honda doesn't become overconfident they probably will never end up like GM.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the same Honda that had a near 100% tranny failure rate.

[lance armstrong's Testicles]

great, toyota idiot and hondaface asshole are at it again

[Polish_Kris]

great, toyota idiot and hondaface asshole are at it again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't you ever have anything intelligent to post?

[BrewSwillis]

great, toyota idiot and hondaface asshole are at it again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While most of the time I'd like to see lance's Nuts banned......he does have a knack for pissing off the import humpers!

[AAS]

great, toyota idiot and hondaface asshole are at it again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't you ever have anything intelligent to post?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably not... but I have to give him credit where credit is due...

His comment just made me laugh my ass off! So much so that I might actually quote it in my sig.