Eight-Brand Pileup Dents GM's Turnaround Efforts - WSJ

[buyacargetacheck]

Given that the Opel-Saturn thing isn't working as planned why not have Saturn take over the G6's new fleet queen role? Saturn could be GM's mostly fleet (75%?) brand to protect the Chevy and Buick resale values, image. Saturn has a weak image and the image that it has is "budget." Pontiac could be freed to offer 2 cars: the Solstice and G8. Maybe a Kappa based sport sedan later. The Sky gets axed.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1204568746...=googlenews_wsj

Eight-Brand Pileup Dents

GM's Turnaround Efforts

By JOHN D. STOLL

March 4, 2008; Page B1

Michael Maguire has mixed feelings about General Motors Corp.'s coming launch of the Chevrolet Traverse, a seven-passenger crossover wagon that promises to boost sales at his family's Chevy dealership along Route 206 in Bordentown, N.J...

[gmpartsgirl]

That's what we've all been bitching about at work for the last ten years. This multiple nameplates on the same damn car is ridiculous and it's killing GM. We don't need 4-5 Trailblazers, it's stupid. Lose GMC, keep Caddy for luxury, Pontiac for sporty, Chevy for affordability. That would be the ideal, of course I know they have to keep Buick, I guess primarily because it seems to be selling so well in China. I guess it could fill the gap between Chevy and Caddy. Stop duplicating. We don't need 3-4 W-bodies, yada, yada, yada. Streamline man, for the love of GOD!!! We all kind of speculated for a while when they first started using the little GM badge on all the new cars that maybe that is what the future held, all under one nameplate(GM), but each keep their own look, like Caddy and Pontiac, etc. It would be major restructuring and would piss a lot of people off, but something has got to give. They can't let the damn Camry beat out all 4 of their competing brands. If they could put that much effort into just 1 of those 4, we'd kick everybodies ass!!!

[regfootball]

how bout simply, f-ck off wall street journal?

my email to the writer, below

does the media really need another 'gm has too many brands' article?

a-the story has been done already and everyone is bored with it

b-it would cost gm a buttpile of money to kill any more brands and they would not retain the market share

c-wall street doesn't know squat about cars anyways

d-GM is building some very good cars (the recently new ones) and has very targeted advertising for each model, even if they are not blowing big wads of cash on annoying, pompous, penis wagging ads like toyota is. Let the cars gain some ground in the marketplace, please. The g8, CTS, Malibu, Lambda CUV's, all great products. The Traverse will be a huge seller and expand GM's CUV share considerably.

e-GM has all these brands worldwide, going global it hurts no one to leverage them here as well. Would you tell P&G to kill off a bunch of its home products brands?

Can we please have articles that are ORIGINAL? thanks

Edited March 5, 2008 by regfootball

[The O.C.]

how bout simply, f-ck off wall street journal?

The guy makes a very salient and relevant point in today's marketplace.......

Something I've been about on this site for a long, long time.

Too many divisions......too many models.

[regfootball]

people seem to not get that the outlook will have been on the market 2 years before the traverse hits, and the outlook will likely be phased out for a smaller x-over. in the meantime, these 2 years, it has helped saturn fill out an all new lineup and redefine the brand. the outlook is a transitional product, the chevy is meant for long term volume, which is why it gets its own plant.

the astra will only be here for 2 years and change too, why stop with the outlook? we don't need the astra here!

bottom line, another worthless article that has already been done. GM already has 8 brands, i'll just say, why do we need another article about the same old $h!? seems a lot more redundant to fill paper and write the 57th article about the same old thing than it does to try to market 8 brands of cars.

its the same $h!. he is ripping GM for creating excess product, he is doing the same thing. another article about something we have already read 100 times over. it's classic pot calling the kettle black. put your fricking writing skills to work (assuming he has any) writing about some insight into something we haven't heard before or something that breaks new ground or new ideas?

for example, how about an article about posche buying VW and if VW Americanizing its lineup is good for the brand? Or, how about an article about toyota's fleet dumping, or huge incentives on the turd, or how scion is a worthless dud? How about an article about 'will Buick's resurgence in China benefit the brand in the US?' or why do less than 50% of BMW's sell with A/C or why do they have vinyl seats and still are considered a luxury product here? Why does Acura exist?

Edited March 5, 2008 by regfootball

[Robert Hall]

or why do less than 50% of BMW's sell with A/C

That has to be a PFA...in the US I would expect BMWs to be 100% with A/C.... I'm amazed there are still any cars sold in the US w/o A/C...

[regfootball]

no its like in Europe or worldwide or something. in the US 100% a/c but that is a perfect example of perception. elsewhere, in many parts, BMW's are workaday $h!boxes like everything else. notice there are also no 4 cyl BMW's here too

[The O.C.]

for example, how about an article about posche buying VW and if VW Americanizing its lineup is good for the brand? Or, how about an article about toyota's fleet dumping, or huge incentives on the turd, or how scion is a worthless dud? How about an article about 'will Buick's resurgence in China benefit the brand in the US?' or why do less than 50% of BMW's sell with A/C or why do they have vinyl seats and still are considered a luxury product here? Why does Acura exist?

WTF...?

Toyota's "fleet dumping?" Scion a "worthless dud?" BMW's selliing "without A/C?" Why does "Acura exist?"

Man lay off the sauce.....it's too early in the evening......

[The O.C.]

no its like in Europe or worldwide or something. in the US 100% a/c but that is a perfect example of perception. elsewhere, in many parts, BMW's are workaday $h!boxes like everything else. notice there are also no 4 cyl BMW's here too

No diesels either.....

[Intrepidation]

Reg, if you get a reply please post it!

[regfootball]

hertz is one big toyo customer.....camrys and corollas and ravs a plenty at hertz and others these days

scion was supposed to not be a geriatric brand. no reason their products couldnt simply be branded as toyotas.

acura-level of interest in acura cars keeps declining like its sales. tarted up hondas, why not get rid of that brand?

there are parts of the world where yes BMW does not sell 50% of its cars with A/C. hardly what i call luxury.

[Robert Hall]

hertz is one big toyo customer.....camrys and corollas and ravs a plenty at hertz and others these days

scion was supposed to not be a geriatric brand. no reason their products couldnt simply be branded as toyotas.

acura-level of interest in acura cars keeps declining like its sales. tarted up hondas, why not get rid of that brand?

there are parts of the world where yes BMW does not sell 50% of its cars with A/C. hardly what i call luxury.

The article and thread were about the US market...so what if BMW sells cars outside the US w/o A/C? Irrelevant..

[regfootball]

no, it is relevant. because its about perception.

some think BMW is luxury. some do not. some think GM brands are not unique enough. Others disagree.

[Robert Hall]

no, it is relevant. because its about perception.

some think BMW is luxury. some do not. some think GM brands are not unique enough. Others disagree.

Well, BMW is RWD and driver focused...that alone gives it premium status. GM has too many overlapping FWD models.

[buyacargetacheck]

Why the defensiveness about a corporation and its (failing) strategy? You talk like GM is your mother or something. They're just brands. They're just cars. Saturn and Pontiac and Buick and Chevrolet don't/can't/will never love you back.

Really, is it so outlandish to think that GM's branding strategy might be a factor in why it continues to lose market share and money? P&G (and most other successful companies) would have done something by now. That's why these P&G brands no longer exist: White Cloud, Banner, Bold, Citrus Hill, Dash, Duz, Encaprin, High Point, Monchelle, Pace, SELF, Puritan, Rely, Salvo, Thrill, and Wondra.

[The O.C.]

no, it is relevant. because its about perception.

some think BMW is luxury. some do not. some think GM brands are not unique enough. Others disagree.

BMW is considered an "A-tier" luxury brand in Europe (along with Mercedes-Benz) and certainly is here too.

What we consider as "luxury" here isn't necessarily the same world-wide......many in Europe would laugh at the contention that Buick, or Lincoln, or even Cadillac were to be considered a "luxury" brand.

AND....for the record, according to BMW UK, even the barest-bones 3-series has A/C standard. The cheapo 1-series models have it optional, but anyone that knows the European market knows that that's not surprising for their market.

[The O.C.]

hertz is one big toyo customer.....camrys and corollas and ravs a plenty at hertz and others these days

scion was supposed to not be a geriatric brand. no reason their products couldnt simply be branded as toyotas.

acura-level of interest in acura cars keeps declining like its sales. tarted up hondas, why not get rid of that brand?

there are parts of the world where yes BMW does not sell 50% of its cars with A/C. hardly what i call luxury.

Like it or not, last time I saw retail-versus-fleet percentages, Toyota, even the Camry and Corolla, sell a fraction of the number of fleet cars GM (and Ford and Chrysler) do. So let's talk apples-to-apples....not spurt eroneous opinions blurted out like "facts."

Not that this is a "defend Toyota" post.....but Scion has worked. How long did it take Saturn to reach the same kind of sales figures? Who cares how old the people are....if people are buying them.

"Tarted-up Hondas?" Why not "get rid of that brand?" Gee Reg....could use the same argument with GMC. "Tarted up Chevy Trucks." Or with Pontiac. Or with Buick. Or with Saturn. Or with.....<ugh>

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, BMW is RWD and driver focused...that alone gives it premium status. GM has too many overlapping FWD models.

Three questions:

1. What cars aren't driver focused?

2. Does RWD give the Charger premium status?

3. Are overlapping RWD models ok?

[Robert Hall]

Three questions:

1. What cars aren't driver focused?

2. Does RWD give the Charger premium status?

3. Are overlapping RWD models ok?

You know what I mean...BMW's are serious driver's cars..not point A to point B appliances...

[Robert Hall]

Like it or not, last time I saw retail-versus-fleet percentages, Toyota, even the Camry and Corolla, sell a fraction of the number of fleet cars GM (and Ford and Chrysler) do. So let's talk apples-to-apples....not spurt eroneous opinions blurted out like "facts."

Not that this is a "defend Toyota" post.....but Scion has worked. How long did it take Saturn to reach the same kind of sales figures? Who cares how old the people are....if people are buying them.

"Tarted-up Hondas?" Why not "get rid of that brand?" Gee Reg....could use the same argument with GMC. "Tarted up Chevy Trucks." Or with Pontiac. Or with Buick. Or with Saturn. Or with.....<ugh>

Reg is full of it...may as well ignore his blatherings..

[Drew Dowdell]

You know what I mean...BMW's are serious driver's cars..not point A to point B appliances...

For 95% of drivers.... they're appliances.

I've never tasted BMWaid.... what's it like?

[Robert Hall]

For 95% of drivers.... they're appliances.

I've never tasted BMWaid.... what's it like?

BMW's drive a specific way that mass market models don't...they handle better, accelerate better, stop better,..the whole package is all about the pure joy of driving..

It's something that has to be experienced, can't easily be explained with statistics....

Edited March 5, 2008 by moltar

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

The idea that GMC should be killed off is preposterous. GMC is essentially just another level of trims of chevy models. You know, new grill, some extra badges... more std equipment... it doesnt exactly cost GM much money to have GMC hang around, and it brings in some decent profit.

Plus there are people who would buy a GMC but would never buy a chevy and visa versa. So whats the idea behind killing GMC?

[Robert Hall]

The idea that GMC should be killed off is preposterous. GMC is essentially just another level of trims of chevy models. You know, new grill, some extra badges... more std equipment... it doesnt exactly cost GM much money to have GMC hang around, and it brings in some decent profit.

Plus there are people who would buy a GMC but would never buy a chevy and visa versa. So whats the idea behind killing GMC?

Also, GMC is becoming more differentiated from Chevy, with the Acadia and upcoming Torrent replacement.

And there is the dealer structure also... I can't see BPG dealers letting GMC go...but poor Pontiac?

Edited March 5, 2008 by moltar

[Oracle of Delphi]

Hmmmm, I could say something that would turn your hair gray. However, CPF is wearing purple ties for me, so I won't.